Silent clearing doesn't need to replace a colorless source though. It can replace a plains or a concealed courtyard. I would test it both ways but start with 4 and work my way down to find the right number.
Silent clearing doesn't need to replace a colorless source though. It can replace a plains or a concealed courtyard. I would test it both ways but start with 4 and work my way down to find the right number.
You can certainly replace concealed courtyard by Silent Clearing but i woud hesitate to take out a basic land since we dont have any "real" fetch lands and Blood Moon hit us very badly. However, you are right to start from 4 and take some out to find the right number. I woud be interest to know how it ewnt down!
Hi everyone. I will play a hard tournament in two months (GP) and im looking for a good modern deck to play. I had played control in modern for years, and now i dont think that play control is a good option, because the metagame is very open and there are a lot of differents decks to face. On the other hand, i dont like the recent UW control decks with planeswalkers and URx variants are very poor now.
Im thinking to play Eldrazi and taxes or mono white taxes. I have enought time to play and test hard the archetype.
Masters of the deck, what do you think about this deck right now in the meta?. I think is versatile and flexible, and it´s a good midrange deck. But I need opinions about it.
Hi everyone. I will play a hard tournament in two months (GP) and im looking for a good modern deck to play. I had played control in modern for years, and now i dont think that play control is a good option, because the metagame is very open and there are a lot of differents decks to face. On the other hand, i dont like the recent UW control decks with planeswalkers and URx variants are very poor now.
Im thinking to play Eldrazi and taxes or mono white taxes. I have enought time to play and test hard the archetype.
Masters of the deck, what do you think about this deck right now in the meta?. I think is versatile and flexible, and it´s a good midrange deck. But I need opinions about it.
Thanks for reeding!
It is pretty hard to say what is good right now with Modern Horizons being out on MTGO for only a few days. Prior to this though generally B/W Eldrazi and taxes has been the way to go (see link below of one of the forum goers here's list from a competitive league.
With giver of runes Mono white eldrazi and taxes may be the way to go. The only list I have seen so far is from the vid linked below. Humans or spirits may just be better though, especially if you prefer those play styles.
It adds on our flicker mechanics that flickerwisp provides. Great for defence or offence for making more tokens off
blade splicer and protecting key pieces, like thalia or aunty of runes?
What do people think about this take? Question is though, what do we cut, and we need to introduce new cycle lands
I have also been thinking of adding one or two Kaya's Guile to the sideboard. It seems generally better than Blessed Alliance for example, but it costs more (what is super relevant in a Thalia deck) and requires WB, so not sure...
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Modern RBWMardu Pyromancer R.I.P. BG The Rock
Commander W Nahiri, the Lithomancer
Im thinking about what is the correct number of giver of Runes/Silent clearing in Eldrazi and Taxes. I think that in mono white taxes we can play 4/4 because we have more density or threaths and we only play white. However, in Eldrazi and taxes I´m testing 3 giver of runes (i think we need the fourth slot open) and 3 Silent Clearing because we need the colorless mana for thought know-seer and displacer.
what do you think about the number of giver of runes and silent clearing?. Maybe we can cut one caves of koilos and take the third shambling or fourht silent clwaring (but i think 4 copies are too much).
I have cut Shambling Vent entirely. Now that we have more 1 drops we absolutely need the first two lands to be untapped. I also think cutting the 4th Talia for a 4th Giver of Runes is correct. Seeing as multiples of Talia is bad, and having Giver on t1 is good with all of our two drops (My list also runs Dark Confidant for this reason).
I'm going to try a radical change by eliminating the Leonin Arbiter. I cannot remember when was the last time he was more than a bear.
Arbiter is not going to catch anyone anymore. At soon as they see a Vial at 2 activation they are going to fetch.
The Path without drawbacks is not so increible because you are going to Path really annoying creatures that you need to path inmediatly (Hogaak, Phoenix, Wurmcoil, Shadow, Gurmag...) and you cannot afford to wait for him.
Its like the worst topdeck of any Taxes deck. Without him, we can afford to play the Prismatic Vista to balance the triple color manabase of the Orzhov and Azorius versions and also use Field of Ruin instead of Ghost Quarter to avoid losing a land when destroying a vital land of the opponent.
My mana base will be:
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Silent Clearing
4 Concealed Courtyard
3 Field of Ruin
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Wastes
Im thinking about what is the correct number of giver of Runes/Silent clearing in Eldrazi and Taxes. I think that in mono white taxes we can play 4/4 because we have more density or threaths and we only play white. However, in Eldrazi and taxes I´m testing 3 giver of runes (i think we need the fourth slot open) and 3 Silent Clearing because we need the colorless mana for thought know-seer and displacer.
what do you think about the number of giver of runes and silent clearing?. Maybe we can cut one caves of koilos and take the third shambling or fourht silent clwaring (but i think 4 copies are too much).
I would never cut Caves of Koilos before Shambling Vent or Concealed Courtyard. I'd rather cut all Vents, than maybe all Courtyards before cutting the first Caves of Koilos.
I have cut Shambling Vent entirely. Now that we have more 1 drops we absolutely need the first two lands to be untapped. I also think cutting the 4th Talia for a 4th Giver of Runes is correct. Seeing as multiples of Talia is bad, and having Giver on t1 is good with all of our two drops (My list also runs Dark Confidant for this reason).
I agree entirely. Dark Confidant became much stronger now in my deck, because my mana curve lowered significantly (I cut 2 Blade Splicers, 1 Wasteland Strangler and 1 Restoration Angel for the 4 Givers of Runes) and because Giver protects him herself.
I'm going to try a radical change by eliminating the Leonin Arbiter. I cannot remember when was the last time he was more than a bear.
Arbiter is not going to catch anyone anymore. At soon as they see a Vial at 2 activation they are going to fetch.
The Path without drawbacks is not so increible because you are going to Path really annoying creatures that you need to path inmediatly (Hogaak, Phoenix, Wurmcoil, Shadow, Gurmag...) and you cannot afford to wait for him.
Its like the worst topdeck of any Taxes deck. Without him, we can afford to play the Prismatic Vista to balance the triple color manabase of the Orzhov and Azorius versions and also use Field of Ruin instead of Ghost Quarter to avoid losing a land when destroying a vital land of the opponent.
My mana base will be:
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Silent Clearing
4 Concealed Courtyard
3 Field of Ruin
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Wastes
I will also go to the full grip of Giver.
Not sure about this. Against some decks, Arbiter is just a bear. But against others, he's a real pain. I find him really good vs Tron, Burn, Titanshift, Amulet Titan, GDS and even against Dredge he's good sometimes. I played a tournament yesterday and just beat my Dredge opponent just by playing an Arbiter turn 2 on the play. He had a Mountain, and two fetch lands. Those type of scenarios are more likely to happen now with Giver who either protects the Arbiter or just eat the removal in his place.
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Modern RBWMardu Pyromancer R.I.P. BG The Rock
Commander W Nahiri, the Lithomancer
Yeah you have reason guys. The fourht giver of runes is awesome (it helps a lot in control matchups and is usefull vs agresive matchups, because it gives protections in blocks), so we need all lands untaped.
Initially I cut a thidehollow sculler, but i feel we need all disruption we can afford, so i cut the fourht Thalia in is place.
The benefit of Shambling is that it has lifelink, is a good blocker and it helps in grind matchups like control or BGx midrange. However, i feel comfortable with this mana configuration.
I played a tournament recently with 2 Reality Smashers on my sideboard, and I found them really bad now with the Silent Clearings. In 2 Games, I had a Smasher on my hand, had 4 mana available on the battlefield being 1 of them a Silent Clearing, and had to decide between 2 very bad options:
- Not crack the Clearing and wait to top deck a land in order to play Smasher;
- Crack the Clearing and pretty much give up of playing my Smasher;
Obviously Smasher would be pretty impactful on those matches (I wouldn't side them in otherwise). However, I couldn't cast them without giving up cycling my Silent Clearings into something that could make a difference faster.
I'm probably cutting them from my sideboard. Maybe for a 3rd RiP and a Kaya's Guile, or something else.
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Commander W Nahiri, the Lithomancer
... Obviously Smasher would be pretty impactful on those matches (I wouldn't side them in otherwise). However, I couldn't cast them without giving up cycling my Silent Clearings into something that could make a difference faster.
Did you already crack other Clearings before reaching that point?
I ask because "4-lands out, but can't cast Smasher" is a situation that could happen even if those Silent Clearings were Concealed Courtyards. Having more options isn't a bad thing (unless you're driving yourself insane).
That said, if you found you were cracking lands faster than normal in a typical game, and thus reaching 4cmc-5cmc is a couple turns slower in any given game, that's a different story. Going from ~4xGQ being the only consumable lands up to 7x-8x between GQ and SC might actually be a significant increase.
Basically, I'm wondering if it's a playstyle thing, where you have to sandbag a bit more (instead of cycling) when you've sided in Smashers.
... Obviously Smasher would be pretty impactful on those matches (I wouldn't side them in otherwise). However, I couldn't cast them without giving up cycling my Silent Clearings into something that could make a difference faster.
Did you already crack other Clearings before reaching that point?
I ask because "4-lands out, but can't cast Smasher" is a situation that could happen even if those Silent Clearings were Concealed Courtyards. Having more options isn't a bad thing (unless you're driving yourself insane).
That said, if you found you were cracking lands faster than normal in a typical game, and thus reaching 4cmc-5cmc is a couple turns slower in any given game, that's a different story. Going from ~4xGQ being the only consumable lands up to 7x-8x between GQ and SC might actually be a significant increase.
Basically, I'm wondering if it's a playstyle thing, where you have to sandbag a bit more (instead of cycling) when you've sided in Smashers.
Yeah. I get your point, and in fact, it is pretty relevant.
Well... I don't remember clearly. I think I did Ghost Quarter one of my opponent's lands before get to that point of 4 mana available and Smasher in hand.
On the other match, I believe I didn't sacrifice a land before.
However, I think that it's important to point out that although I had 2 options, both were bad. Firstly, because by playing Silent Clearing instead of a Concealed Courtyard or a Shambling Vent, I chose to deal with the drawback of taking damage every time I needed to generate mana with it, because the draw was supposed to make up for it.
However, in that scenario I had to deal with the drawbacks of playing that land, and couldn't make use of its advantage without giving up playing an important card.
So... all in all, I'd say that Reality Smasher doesn't play well with Silent Clearing. Of course, I don't have a really big sample to make conclusions, but considering that experiences and the fact that I play only 22 lands, while pretty much 40% of them are lands that I'll want/need to sacrifice at some point of the game, a 5 mana creature doesn't seem so reliable.
If I did play Shambling Vent instead of Clearing, for example, I would be really happy to just keep attacking my opponent with the 2/3 Lifelinker or threaten a block with it while I waited for the 5th land. Instead, I had to lose 2 or 3 lifepoints on those games, and couldn't make use of the advantage of the land.
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Modern RBWMardu Pyromancer R.I.P. BG The Rock
Commander W Nahiri, the Lithomancer
Hey guys, I've been thinking about picking up Eldrazi and Taxes for a while, mostly because I already own all the expensive lands, and also it just seems fun =P
So my only question is, how vital is aether vial for the deck to work? I know it's basically the best turn one play, and it's super powerful letting you dump your hand, and play stuff at instant speed, but it's also pretty expensive, and I don't want to spend that much money at this point.
I know it'd be a trash alternative, but would Thraben inspector be a useable replacement?
I can already guess at what you'll say, but I thought I may as well ask
Thanks
...I've been thinking about picking up Eldrazi and Taxes... how vital is aether vial for the deck to work?... would Thraben inspector be a useable replacement?...
However, if you look closely at how both those decks function you'll see that they've been heavily tweaked to run different gameplans.
Trying to make a no-Vial no-Chalice build (i.e. a "budget" version) workable is going to take some brewing design/thought on your part to make a coherent gameplan. Can you rely on racing the opponent without that virtual mana available from Vial? Is Wisp still good enough without it? Does the deck need more card draw (Copter, Inspector, etc.) if it can't rely on Vial tricks? You might also want to look into the no-Vial 'Jason Simard' build from GP Vancouver to see if any of those ideas could help with what you're able to work with.
So it looks like Mono White hatebears has been doing well nowadays. That makes another variant of the D&T archetype for us to play with, which is great. (:
But that left me wondering; what iteration of D&T is the strongest now? WB? Mono White? Mono White without the Eldrazis? Thalia+Reality Smasher stompy?
So it looks like Mono White hatebears has been doing well nowadays. That makes another variant of the D&T archetype for us to play with, which is great. (:
But that left me wondering; what iteration of D&T is the strongest now? WB? Mono White? Mono White without the Eldrazis? Thalia+Reality Smasher stompy?
Actually, hatebears is mislabeled. Death and Taxes is very different from hatebears. And there is two variants that's making appearance these days. Monowhite and WB Eldrazi and Taxes; There is still a spiderspace's thalia stompy/eldrazi and staxes showing up too
You can certainly replace concealed courtyard by Silent Clearing but i woud hesitate to take out a basic land since we dont have any "real" fetch lands and Blood Moon hit us very badly. However, you are right to start from 4 and take some out to find the right number. I woud be interest to know how it ewnt down!
Im thinking to play Eldrazi and taxes or mono white taxes. I have enought time to play and test hard the archetype.
Masters of the deck, what do you think about this deck right now in the meta?. I think is versatile and flexible, and it´s a good midrange deck. But I need opinions about it.
Thanks for reeding!
It is pretty hard to say what is good right now with Modern Horizons being out on MTGO for only a few days. Prior to this though generally B/W Eldrazi and taxes has been the way to go (see link below of one of the forum goers here's list from a competitive league.
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=22190&d=350208&f=MO]
With giver of runes Mono white eldrazi and taxes may be the way to go. The only list I have seen so far is from the vid linked below. Humans or spirits may just be better though, especially if you prefer those play styles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i4fnrETtHY]
It adds on our flicker mechanics that flickerwisp provides. Great for defence or offence for making more tokens off
blade splicer and protecting key pieces, like thalia or aunty of runes?
What do people think about this take? Question is though, what do we cut, and we need to introduce new cycle lands
-1 Shambling Vent
-2 Concealed Courtyard
+3 Silent Clearing
-2 Blade Splicer
-1 Restoration Angel
-1 Wasteland Strangler
+4 Giver of Runes
So... that's how my deck will look like now:
2 Shambling Vent
2 Concealed Courtyard
3 Silent Clearing
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
1 Swamp
Non-creatures
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Giver of Runes
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Dark Confidant
3 Flickerwisp
2 Wasteland Strangler
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Reality Smasher
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Fatal Push
1 Anguished Unmaking
I have also been thinking of adding one or two Kaya's Guile to the sideboard. It seems generally better than Blessed Alliance for example, but it costs more (what is super relevant in a Thalia deck) and requires WB, so not sure...
RBW
Mardu PyromancerR.I.P.BG The Rock
Commander
W Nahiri, the Lithomancer
Im thinking about what is the correct number of giver of Runes/Silent clearing in Eldrazi and Taxes. I think that in mono white taxes we can play 4/4 because we have more density or threaths and we only play white. However, in Eldrazi and taxes I´m testing 3 giver of runes (i think we need the fourth slot open) and 3 Silent Clearing because we need the colorless mana for thought know-seer and displacer.
I´m testing this mana configuration:
4 Concealed courtyard
4 Ghost quarter
4 Eldrazi temple
3 Silent Clearing
2 Shambling vent
2 Caves of koilos
2 plains
1 swamp
what do you think about the number of giver of runes and silent clearing?. Maybe we can cut one caves of koilos and take the third shambling or fourht silent clwaring (but i think 4 copies are too much).
Arbiter is not going to catch anyone anymore. At soon as they see a Vial at 2 activation they are going to fetch.
The Path without drawbacks is not so increible because you are going to Path really annoying creatures that you need to path inmediatly (Hogaak, Phoenix, Wurmcoil, Shadow, Gurmag...) and you cannot afford to wait for him.
Its like the worst topdeck of any Taxes deck. Without him, we can afford to play the Prismatic Vista to balance the triple color manabase of the Orzhov and Azorius versions and also use Field of Ruin instead of Ghost Quarter to avoid losing a land when destroying a vital land of the opponent.
My mana base will be:
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Silent Clearing
4 Concealed Courtyard
3 Field of Ruin
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Wastes
I will also go to the full grip of Giver.
I would never cut Caves of Koilos before Shambling Vent or Concealed Courtyard. I'd rather cut all Vents, than maybe all Courtyards before cutting the first Caves of Koilos.
I agree entirely. Dark Confidant became much stronger now in my deck, because my mana curve lowered significantly (I cut 2 Blade Splicers, 1 Wasteland Strangler and 1 Restoration Angel for the 4 Givers of Runes) and because Giver protects him herself.
Not sure about this. Against some decks, Arbiter is just a bear. But against others, he's a real pain. I find him really good vs Tron, Burn, Titanshift, Amulet Titan, GDS and even against Dredge he's good sometimes. I played a tournament yesterday and just beat my Dredge opponent just by playing an Arbiter turn 2 on the play. He had a Mountain, and two fetch lands. Those type of scenarios are more likely to happen now with Giver who either protects the Arbiter or just eat the removal in his place.
RBW
Mardu PyromancerR.I.P.BG The Rock
Commander
W Nahiri, the Lithomancer
Initially I cut a thidehollow sculler, but i feel we need all disruption we can afford, so i cut the fourht Thalia in is place.
My mana configuration:
4 Concealed courtyard
4 Caves of koilos
4 Ghost quarter
4 Eldrazi temple
2 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Silent Clearing
The benefit of Shambling is that it has lifelink, is a good blocker and it helps in grind matchups like control or BGx midrange. However, i feel comfortable with this mana configuration.
- Not crack the Clearing and wait to top deck a land in order to play Smasher;
- Crack the Clearing and pretty much give up of playing my Smasher;
Obviously Smasher would be pretty impactful on those matches (I wouldn't side them in otherwise). However, I couldn't cast them without giving up cycling my Silent Clearings into something that could make a difference faster.
I'm probably cutting them from my sideboard. Maybe for a 3rd RiP and a Kaya's Guile, or something else.
RBW
Mardu PyromancerR.I.P.BG The Rock
Commander
W Nahiri, the Lithomancer
I ask because "4-lands out, but can't cast Smasher" is a situation that could happen even if those Silent Clearings were Concealed Courtyards. Having more options isn't a bad thing (unless you're driving yourself insane).
That said, if you found you were cracking lands faster than normal in a typical game, and thus reaching 4cmc-5cmc is a couple turns slower in any given game, that's a different story. Going from ~4xGQ being the only consumable lands up to 7x-8x between GQ and SC might actually be a significant increase.
Basically, I'm wondering if it's a playstyle thing, where you have to sandbag a bit more (instead of cycling) when you've sided in Smashers.
Yeah. I get your point, and in fact, it is pretty relevant.
Well... I don't remember clearly. I think I did Ghost Quarter one of my opponent's lands before get to that point of 4 mana available and Smasher in hand.
On the other match, I believe I didn't sacrifice a land before.
However, I think that it's important to point out that although I had 2 options, both were bad. Firstly, because by playing Silent Clearing instead of a Concealed Courtyard or a Shambling Vent, I chose to deal with the drawback of taking damage every time I needed to generate mana with it, because the draw was supposed to make up for it.
However, in that scenario I had to deal with the drawbacks of playing that land, and couldn't make use of its advantage without giving up playing an important card.
So... all in all, I'd say that Reality Smasher doesn't play well with Silent Clearing. Of course, I don't have a really big sample to make conclusions, but considering that experiences and the fact that I play only 22 lands, while pretty much 40% of them are lands that I'll want/need to sacrifice at some point of the game, a 5 mana creature doesn't seem so reliable.
If I did play Shambling Vent instead of Clearing, for example, I would be really happy to just keep attacking my opponent with the 2/3 Lifelinker or threaten a block with it while I waited for the 5th land. Instead, I had to lose 2 or 3 lifepoints on those games, and couldn't make use of the advantage of the land.
RBW
Mardu PyromancerR.I.P.BG The Rock
Commander
W Nahiri, the Lithomancer
So my only question is, how vital is aether vial for the deck to work? I know it's basically the best turn one play, and it's super powerful letting you dump your hand, and play stuff at instant speed, but it's also pretty expensive, and I don't want to spend that much money at this point.
I know it'd be a trash alternative, but would Thraben inspector be a useable replacement?
I can already guess at what you'll say, but I thought I may as well ask
Thanks
That said, something like the most recently posted 'SpiderSpace' MonoWhite Eldrazi/Stompy list on mtgGoldfish shows that running 4xVial isn't a requirement to win games (though the 4xChalice of the Void are even more expensive than Vial).
However, if you look closely at how both those decks function you'll see that they've been heavily tweaked to run different gameplans.
Trying to make a no-Vial no-Chalice build (i.e. a "budget" version) workable is going to take some brewing design/thought on your part to make a coherent gameplan. Can you rely on racing the opponent without that virtual mana available from Vial? Is Wisp still good enough without it? Does the deck need more card draw (Copter, Inspector, etc.) if it can't rely on Vial tricks? You might also want to look into the no-Vial 'Jason Simard' build from GP Vancouver to see if any of those ideas could help with what you're able to work with.
Thanks a bunch!
So it looks like Mono White hatebears has been doing well nowadays. That makes another variant of the D&T archetype for us to play with, which is great. (:
But that left me wondering; what iteration of D&T is the strongest now? WB? Mono White? Mono White without the Eldrazis? Thalia+Reality Smasher stompy?
U Deep Hours Obsession
-4 vial
-4 path
-4 giver
-4 thalia
-4 leonin
-4 tidehollow
-4 displacer
-4 tks
-4 flickerwisp
-2 westland strangler
-1 swamp
-1 plain
-4 council
-4 koilos
-4 quarter
-4 silent clearin
-4 eldrazi temple
------------------
-4 rip
-4 fatal push
-2 burrenton
-2 stony
-3 cage