Hey there
After a break for about 2 years from Magic, i restarted playing and build a pretty basic elves List because i have always been a big fan of the deck in general.
My local Meta is pretty diverse (Mono U/G/GB Tron, Gbx , Grixis, Mono B) , so far so good.
I really struggle against Grixis, especially against Grixis Control. It almost feels like 80/20 in Grixis favour. Often i find myself clueless what to board out.
At the moment i get rid of my 4 Devoted Druid and my Vizier of Remedies since going into the combo is almost impossible vs a deck which is flushed with creature removal, even more in the sideboard games.
Any further sideboard advice against this kind of matchup. To me it seems to be one of the worst matchups which i could face with elves.
Best regards
Khalar
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Currently Playing Modern and Pauper and Pauper cmdr
Modern: Heartless Gitrog
Interesting, this is 1:1 copy of my deck I posted while ago. Glad you went for it. Luckily I haven't played against tron yet but as other said, Phyrexian Revoker is great in that spot and it’ll laso help a bit against Jace. Haven't played modern for a month though so my current knowledge of the meta is limited.
As for the manabase I recommend adding a second Horizon Canopy for one Razorverge Thicket.
Yeah, I've been looking through the thread for a long time and thought your list was a good baseline for Abzan Elves, just splashing B for Shamans. I really like the reach the Shamans give, but didn't want to sacrifice the hate cards/toolbox approach of GW and go B/G so you're list seemed like a good hybrid. I'm hoping to play a modern tournament at my LGS this Thursday so there will likely be tweaks after that.
As for the mana base, the lack of Canopies is really the only thing I don't like. Currently trying to track get my hands on a couple copies from Iconic Masters due to the high cost of the original printing from Future Sight but they fly off the shelf at my LGS. If I get impatient I'll probably just break down and pick up one or two Future Sight copies and swap out 1 forest and 1 Thicket.
I've edited my original post to credit you for the list. Sorry about that!
Another Jund elf deck went undefeated. I guess it has some steam. It’s the same list we saw before, except, no visionaries. Ran an extra land, 1 lead the stampede, 1 Elvish Champion and 1 Gnarlroot Trapper. I haven’t played Gnarlroot Trapper since standard, haven’t explored it in modern. I guess it could work?
Steel Leaf Champion
GGG
Creature — Elf Knight
5/4
Steel Leaf Champion can't be blocked by creatures with power 2 or less.
Woolly Thoctar that’s an elf and can’t be blocked by Lingering Souls? Can be hit by BBE, CoCo, or Lead??? Seems... gud.
If you look up “power-creep” in the dictionary there’s a picture of this card next to it.
He’s good in a nutshell. But doesn’t belong in CoCo elves imo. He’s nothing more than a beatstick and our other 3cmc creatures have more purpose. Come on wizards, show us more elves!!
Steel Leaf Champion
GGG
Creature — Elf Knight
5/4
Steel Leaf Champion can't be blocked by creatures with power 2 or less.
Woolly Thoctar that’s an elf and can’t be blocked by Lingering Souls? Can be hit by BBE, CoCo, or Lead??? Seems... gud.
If you look up “power-creep” in the dictionary there’s a picture of this card next to it.
He’s good in a nutshell. But doesn’t belong in CoCo elves imo. He’s nothing more than a beatstick and our other 3cmc creatures have more purpose. Come on wizards, show us more elves!!
I figured it’d get that response. He’s more or less “vanilla” and is competing for a slot that already has a lot of depth. And while I figured it’d get played down, I feel like it’s too easy to understate how much of a beat-stick he really is. We generally depend on amassing a lot of Elves to be truly effective, and each elf depends a lot on the next. Not this guy. You hit him off BBE and suddenly you have 8 power worth of beat on the board, right then and there. You hit him off a CoCo EoT on an open board, and suddenly you have 5 power and a dork (or an Elvish Champion!) to swing with. You play him turn-two and now your opponent has to have the removal by turn three or they get a huge chunk of life bitten off, making Shaman’s job that much easier. Follow their removal with your turn-three BBE or CoCo. I don’t think he fits our combo-ish plan that well, but he goes well as at least a two-of in a grindier BG or BRG build. I for one am excited about him and will certainly be trying him out. I think it’s a trap to act reserved and uninterested about this kind of raw beat in an elf. He gives us yet another angle.
Steel Leaf Champion
GGG
Creature — Elf Knight
5/4
Steel Leaf Champion can't be blocked by creatures with power 2 or less.
Woolly Thoctar that’s an elf and can’t be blocked by Lingering Souls? Can be hit by BBE, CoCo, or Lead??? Seems... gud.
If you look up “power-creep” in the dictionary there’s a picture of this card next to it.
He’s good in a nutshell. But doesn’t belong in CoCo elves imo. He’s nothing more than a beatstick and our other 3cmc creatures have more purpose. Come on wizards, show us more elves!!
I figured it’d get that response. He’s more or less “vanilla” and is competing for a slot that already has a lot of depth. And while I figured it’d get played down, I feel like it’s too easy to understate how much of a beat-stick he really is. We generally depend on amassing a lot of Elves to be truly effective, and each elf depends a lot on the next. Not this guy. You hit him off BBE and suddenly you have 8 power worth of beat on the board, right then and there. You hit him off a CoCo EoT on an open board, and suddenly you have 5 power and a dork (or an Elvish Champion!) to swing with. You play him turn-two and now your opponent has to have the removal by turn three or they get a huge chunk of life bitten off, making Shaman’s job that much easier. Follow their removal with your turn-three BBE or CoCo. I don’t think he fits our combo-ish plan that well, but he goes well as at least a two-of in a grindier BG or BRG build. I for one am excited about him and will certainly be trying him out. I think it’s a trap to act reserved and uninterested about this kind of raw beat in an elf. He gives us yet another angle.
What would you drop for him? All our creatures are pretty critical. In my opinion, he is best in a green stompy deck. Definitely not saying he’s not good. He’s just a clear upgrade over Leatherback Baloth.
Steel Leaf Champion
GGG
Creature — Elf Knight
5/4
Steel Leaf Champion can't be blocked by creatures with power 2 or less.
Woolly Thoctar that’s an elf and can’t be blocked by Lingering Souls? Can be hit by BBE, CoCo, or Lead??? Seems... gud.
If you look up “power-creep” in the dictionary there’s a picture of this card next to it.
He’s good in a nutshell. But doesn’t belong in CoCo elves imo. He’s nothing more than a beatstick and our other 3cmc creatures have more purpose. Come on wizards, show us more elves!!
I figured it’d get that response. He’s more or less “vanilla” and is competing for a slot that already has a lot of depth. And while I figured it’d get played down, I feel like it’s too easy to understate how much of a beat-stick he really is. We generally depend on amassing a lot of Elves to be truly effective, and each elf depends a lot on the next. Not this guy. You hit him off BBE and suddenly you have 8 power worth of beat on the board, right then and there. You hit him off a CoCo EoT on an open board, and suddenly you have 5 power and a dork (or an Elvish Champion!) to swing with. You play him turn-two and now your opponent has to have the removal by turn three or they get a huge chunk of life bitten off, making Shaman’s job that much easier. Follow their removal with your turn-three BBE or CoCo. I don’t think he fits our combo-ish plan that well, but he goes well as at least a two-of in a grindier BG or BRG build. I for one am excited about him and will certainly be trying him out. I think it’s a trap to act reserved and uninterested about this kind of raw beat in an elf. He gives us yet another angle.
This way of reasoning is not the best.
For almost all the cards I can figure out a situation in which it is excellent.
But this does not implies that such card becomes strong.
Let us compare with the other 3 mana boys in the elves deck.
Does not pump the other elves and does not create tons of mana (Elvish Archdruid)
Does not make tons of damage as soon as it enters in the Battlefield (Shaman of the pack)
It's not a threat of an instant kill and does not preserve the other elves (Ezuri, renegade leader)
Does not pump the other elves giving them forestwalk (elvish champion).
In the deck as it is designed so far (no matter if it is MonoG GW GB Abzan Jund) it does not fit well.
Probably it is a good card in a beat down deck with joraga warcaller, wren's run vanquisher etc.
I think this card is quite good.
He does something none of our other 3 drops do, survive bolt and get dirty in combat without lords. The fact that my opponent can go for an alpha strike and get brick walled by TWO of these off an otherwise unassuming board if I coco is quite insane. 4 mana ten power at instant speed is powerful enough for modern. Add just one lord to the mix and he starts eating gurmag anglers, tasigur, eldrazi, hollow ones, etc.
The fact that weaker stuff can't jump in front of him is not irrelevant.
His cmc opens up the potential for another type of deck building. Maybe nykthos and aspect of the hydra are worth looking into now; heck maybe ghalta? Who knows. But that's the kind of build provoking I want from new printings. How does this change the deck, what does it bring that I don't already have, and is it better/easier to execute this new game plan?
For example, what does burn do about this? What does burn do about two of them? Edilon can be quite strong vs us if we're forced to dig for an out. This closes that gap considerably.
You're quick to dismiss but this is supported by our current cast of elves considerably. T1 dork into this is a heck of a start for anything with red removal. It's a GREAT coco hit at instant speed on defense or offense. We could have said the same for shaman of the pack, but it warped the deck for a very different and successful play style. Heck look at what vizier of remedies has done. It's a non tribe off color card that is making us run 4 devoted druids...eating up 5 slots and forcing the number of ezuris up to 4.
Steel Leaf Champion
GGG
Creature — Elf Knight
5/4
Steel Leaf Champion can't be blocked by creatures with power 2 or less.
Woolly Thoctar that’s an elf and can’t be blocked by Lingering Souls? Can be hit by BBE, CoCo, or Lead??? Seems... gud.
If you look up “power-creep” in the dictionary there’s a picture of this card next to it.
He’s good in a nutshell. But doesn’t belong in CoCo elves imo. He’s nothing more than a beatstick and our other 3cmc creatures have more purpose. Come on wizards, show us more elves!!
I figured it’d get that response. He’s more or less “vanilla” and is competing for a slot that already has a lot of depth. And while I figured it’d get played down, I feel like it’s too easy to understate how much of a beat-stick he really is. We generally depend on amassing a lot of Elves to be truly effective, and each elf depends a lot on the next. Not this guy. You hit him off BBE and suddenly you have 8 power worth of beat on the board, right then and there. You hit him off a CoCo EoT on an open board, and suddenly you have 5 power and a dork (or an Elvish Champion!) to swing with. You play him turn-two and now your opponent has to have the removal by turn three or they get a huge chunk of life bitten off, making Shaman’s job that much easier. Follow their removal with your turn-three BBE or CoCo. I don’t think he fits our combo-ish plan that well, but he goes well as at least a two-of in a grindier BG or BRG build. I for one am excited about him and will certainly be trying him out. I think it’s a trap to act reserved and uninterested about this kind of raw beat in an elf. He gives us yet another angle.
This way of reasoning is not the best.
For almost all the cards I can figure out a situation in which it is excellent.
But this does not implies that such card becomes strong.
Let us compare with the other 3 mana boys in the elves deck.
Does not pump the other elves and does not create tons of mana (Elvish Archdruid)
Does not make tons of damage as soon as it enters in the Battlefield (Shaman of the pack)
It's not a threat of an instant kill and does not preserve the other elves (Ezuri, renegade leader)
Does not pump the other elves giving them forestwalk (elvish champion).
In the deck as it is designed so far (no matter if it is MonoG GW GB Abzan Jund) it does not fit well.
Probably it is a good card in a beat down deck with joraga warcaller, wren's run vanquisher etc.
-- Edit --
Reading better all the leak there is an extremely interesting artifact that can be used in the deck.
Damping Sphere
Artifact 2
If a land produces two or more mana, it produces only 1 (excellent against GR Lands destruction, Tron)
Each spell cast by a player cost 1 more for each other spell cast by the player in this turn (it stops storm, makes burn slower etc )
It’s easy to spin it however we want.
-You say he doesn’t produce a ton of mana like Archdruid.
I say Archdruid doesn’t produce a ton of mana unless you meet the condition of maintaining a board state.
-You say he doesn’t buff our other Elves.
I say you have to meet the condition of having other Eves to buff in order to buff them. I say this card doesn’t need any buffs to be a threat.
-You say he doesn’t preserve our other Elves.
I say this is an Elf you don’t have to preserve from the likes of Anger of the Gods, Lightning Bolt, and Abrade.
-You say he doesn’t drain a ton of life the turn he comes down.
I say Shaman only drains a ton of life if you meet the condition of having a ton of Elves on the board. I say this card threatens to drain 5 life the following turn unless he is dealt with, no matter what kind of board state you have.
And mapccu simply said it opens up potential for different deck building, not that it required different deck building. I don’t think you’d have to change much at all to fit it in a BG or BRG build. I think the combo is significantly worse now anyway with all the Lightning Bolts running around. I’d much rather play against a GW Elves list when I’m running Jund than a BG or Jund Elves list. Now that I think of it, this is a very Jundy type Elf. He doesn’t need synergism. He can make good use of it as one of the most powerful tribes in the game, but he doesn’t require it. He’s good all on his own, and THAT diversifies our threats and stretches our opponent’s removal.
The Sphere is exciting in general, but it hurts us too. I don’t want to have to pay additional mana if I want to play more than one Elf a turn.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MODERN: BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG EDH: BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
Steel Leaf Champion
GGG
Creature — Elf Knight
5/4
Steel Leaf Champion can't be blocked by creatures with power 2 or less.
Woolly Thoctar that’s an elf and can’t be blocked by Lingering Souls? Can be hit by BBE, CoCo, or Lead??? Seems... gud.
If you look up “power-creep” in the dictionary there’s a picture of this card next to it.
He’s good in a nutshell. But doesn’t belong in CoCo elves imo. He’s nothing more than a beatstick and our other 3cmc creatures have more purpose. Come on wizards, show us more elves!!
I figured it’d get that response. He’s more or less “vanilla” and is competing for a slot that already has a lot of depth. And while I figured it’d get played down, I feel like it’s too easy to understate how much of a beat-stick he really is. We generally depend on amassing a lot of Elves to be truly effective, and each elf depends a lot on the next. Not this guy. You hit him off BBE and suddenly you have 8 power worth of beat on the board, right then and there. You hit him off a CoCo EoT on an open board, and suddenly you have 5 power and a dork (or an Elvish Champion!) to swing with. You play him turn-two and now your opponent has to have the removal by turn three or they get a huge chunk of life bitten off, making Shaman’s job that much easier. Follow their removal with your turn-three BBE or CoCo. I don’t think he fits our combo-ish plan that well, but he goes well as at least a two-of in a grindier BG or BRG build. I for one am excited about him and will certainly be trying him out. I think it’s a trap to act reserved and uninterested about this kind of raw beat in an elf. He gives us yet another angle.
This way of reasoning is not the best.
For almost all the cards I can figure out a situation in which it is excellent.
But this does not implies that such card becomes strong.
Let us compare with the other 3 mana boys in the elves deck.
Does not pump the other elves and does not create tons of mana (Elvish Archdruid)
Does not make tons of damage as soon as it enters in the Battlefield (Shaman of the pack)
It's not a threat of an instant kill and does not preserve the other elves (Ezuri, renegade leader)
Does not pump the other elves giving them forestwalk (elvish champion).
In the deck as it is designed so far (no matter if it is MonoG GW GB Abzan Jund) it does not fit well.
Probably it is a good card in a beat down deck with joraga warcaller, wren's run vanquisher etc.
-- Edit --
Reading better all the leak there is an extremely interesting artifact that can be used in the deck.
Damping Sphere
Artifact 2
If a land produces two or more mana, it produces only 1 (excellent against GR Lands destruction, Tron)
Each spell cast by a player cost 1 more for each other spell cast by the player in this turn (it stops storm, makes burn slower etc )
It’s easy to spin it however we want.
-You say he doesn’t produce a ton of mana like Archdruid.
I say Archdruid doesn’t produce a ton of mana unless you meet the condition of maintaining a board state.
-You say he doesn’t buff our other Elves.
I say you have to meet the condition of having other Eves to buff in order to buff them. I say this card doesn’t need any buffs to be a threat.
-You say he doesn’t preserve our other Elves.
I say this is an Elf you don’t have to preserve from the likes of Anger of the Gods, Lightning Bolt, and Abrade.
-You say he doesn’t drain a ton of life the turn he comes down.
I say Shaman only drains a ton of life if you meet the condition of having a ton of Elves on the board. I say this card threatens to drain 5 life the following turn unless he is dealt with, no matter what kind of board state you have.
And mapccu simply said it opens up potential for different deck building, not that it required different deck building. I don’t think you’d have to change much at all to fit it in a BG or BRG build. I think the combo is significantly worse now anyway with all the Lightning Bolts running around. I’d much rather play against a GW Elves list when I’m running Jund than a BG or Jund Elves list. Now that I think of it, this is a very Jundy type Elf. He doesn’t need synergism. He can make good use of it as one of the most powerful tribes in the game, but he doesn’t require it. He’s good all on his own, and THAT diversifies our threats and stretches our opponent’s removal.
The Sphere is exciting in general, but it hurts us too. I don’t want to have to pay additional mana if I want to play more than one Elf a turn.
I think that is probably the strongest argument for his inclusion is that he benefits and bolsters our existing synergies without relying on them. He would be the one elf that doesn't require another elf or more to be around to be a good draw. (Elite, archdruid, ezuri, champion, heritage, sotp all require board presence to access the cards ability). Never forget the time I had a cavern in play, top decked a sotp and ran it out on an opponent at one. Trigger on the stack bounce your shaman draw a card with cryptic commmand... I ended up losing that game too. None of our three drops end the game as is unless you have gobs of mana and an ezuri.
Sphere may dictate the need for more reclaimation sages accross the 75. It isn't like we're hurting for targets ATM anyway, and I could see sphere being a sideboard card that is more beneficial than plenty of mainboard stuff in a bevy of decks and will show up often post sideboard. If most of your matches end up being 3 games, this will come up often and it's best to be prepared.
Interesting discussion on the new Elf guys. You guys are doing great, but let’s remember to continue to be civil about the discussion.
If I may weigh in, I think it has interesting things going for it. Yes, I do believe the lack of synergy is disappointing. I think Elves only survives on synergy (think success of GW) and not having any except for an occasional buff is critical. However, the stats themselves can warrant some outside-of-the-box thinking. 5/4 does evade Anger of the Gods (usually our arch nemesis) and stops most Eldrazi by itself.
Basically, I think it would replace Shaman. The direction of the deck will go away from BG to something like RG stompy in which this new elf can be cast off of a cascade like some of you mentioned. Is it better than BG? Testing will tell, but that is the most natural transition.
I think to try and keep all of the three drops, Shaman, Ezuri, Archdruid while trying to fit this in is impossible. I don’t see Ezuri and Archdruid going anywhere, so Shaman is the only logical replacement. Perhaps the success of the June Elves gives some players a shell to work this new guy in while smoothing out the mana. This does open up some possibilities for Blood Moon in the sideboard as well.
All I can say is, I have been a proponent of new tech since the beginning. Syreal reminded me of that when I was more skeptical of Bloodbraid Elf. So, I think we should, at least, test this guy to see if we can come up with something cool.
Sylvan Awakening
2(G)
Sorcery
Until your next turn, all lands you control becomes 2/2 Elemental creatures with reach, indestructible, and haste. They are still lands.
Seems like a solid side board option for the grindy matchups. And another plus is you can hit it with BBE and just attack with everything that turn without worrying about losing any lands, well unless they path a land lol.
Edit- I guess it would have been better if it said untap all lands first. Oh well.
And can we talk about Gnarlroot Trapper for a minute? He’s in every Jund elf deck that wins. At least as a one of. WHY?? For the deathtouch ability? Or mana dork ability?
No I feel ya, man. I really do. Personally I'm stoked about taking the card for a spin. Thank goodness there are much more devoted grinders and proficient players than me that'll give it the reps it needs to really get a clear look at it. It doesn't have the synergism the other 3cmc Elves do and I understand the downside of that and why you're not for it. For me this isn't nearly enough of a downside to quench my enthusiasm about how independently powerful the card is. None of our other Elves (barring BBE) share this trait. Independently powerful while still receiving all the boons provided by the other, more synergistic Elves. I feel like we both understand what the other is saying and have similar conceptualizations of the pros and cons of the card, we're just ascribing different weights to each. Honestly, the only thing I find contentious (*controversial) is the presumption (*an idea that is taken to be true although it is not known for certain) that the card is out of line enough with what "Collected Company Elves" is trying to accomplish that it shouldn't even be considered. It seems a hasty conclusion to me.
On the Sphere: I'm extremely stoked about this card. I'm not a big fan of Tron; it doesn't fit my playstyle and the decks I enjoy piloting almost always get preyed on by it. Of course this is not in the slightest the same as "I think the deck is dumb and I don't think it should exist in the meta", but I feel the need to clarify. Any checks and balances for Tron, whether we're running them or other meta decks are running them, will have an advocate in me. I will definitely be trying this card out (in this deck and others). Still, I have my reservations about it slowing our Elfball down.
mikeduges,
Well said. Very interesting (and seemingly very viable) proposals. I'd sure hate to have Shaman be the opportunity cost of running the new Elf. SotP is the main (yet not only) reason I play BG over WG. The impeccable manabase is why I run it over WBG.
These are exciting times for Modern, I'll tell ya.
Edit: Edited to clarify the intended use of "contentious" and "presumptuous". I don't feel like my use was clear and the other uses/definitions of the words sound a lot harsher than was my intention.
Gnarlroot Trapper is really cool tech. I haven't had a chance to try it myself yet though. At instant speed the ability really messes with our opponents blocks and causes some hard choices. Before if I wanted to pressure my opponent and had, say, three elves to swing at them but they had a Tarmogoyf to block with, there would be the heavy cost of losing an Elf just to get a bit of damage through. Now, with Trapper ready at hand my opponent would have a very different and difficult decision to make. I think Trapper probably does a lot to prevent stalemates and a lack of aggression when deciding whether to swing into blockers or not. The Deathtouch also seems pretty sweet when combined with Ezuri's Trample effect.
Guys, I haven't been playing much Elves at all lately. I was on Living End for quite a while and I've since jumped right back on Jund now that we have our old friend back. I could really use some help with my SB. Here it is at the moment:
I think the deck is pretty standard for BG.
Some specifics:
-I'm running a 2/2 split between Lead and Chord.
-I'm' running 1x MB Scavenging Ooze.
-Throne of the God Pharaoh, Elves of Deep Shadow, and the third Elvish Visionary have all been competing for the last flex slot for some time now and with no established winner when I put the deck down last.
Apart from that I think it's relatively stock.
Hello Everybody, been reading all the advice since page 50 in the previous primer. My LGS has an average FMN of about 30 people most have multiple tier 1 decks and below. Everything from Tron to Burn to Lantern and different decks in-between. My deck list is pretty straight forward. I'm trying to go for the Azban Elves.
The main questions are conserning my side board. My main issues are with Storm, Hulk Footsteps, and other combo decks. I got into a debate with one of the storm/UR pyromancer players who told me that stain the mind is a useless card as well as shapers' sanctuary. His opinion is that I should just use cards like thoughtseize( Instead of Stain), layline of sanctity(Instead of sanctuary and aegis), and Rest in Piece( Instead of Loaming Shaman). My train of thought is running chordable bullets, but I've been trying non chordable spells.
1. What are thoughts on Stain the Mind vs hand disruption? I like stain the mind because we can convoke by turn 3 most of the time and remove a combo piece without having to allow them to cast be first(Surgical Extraction), which normally means we're already dead. I know that TS, Inquisition, and even thought-knot seer, can remove combo pieces from hand but predicting when they are about to go off, when most combo decks are pretty proficient at digging for pieces after being hit by disruption, is pretty tough and I like just removing the pieces from the game. I like Stain because it is my payoff card vs combo where hand disruption is trying to slow them down enough to win. Thoughts?
2. Lead vs Sanctuary: mainly with Jund. Which would you guys recommend? Sanctuary makes all that removal they boast turn into card advantage to continue grinding and they stack effects with makes them better the more you have. Hey do you want to fatal push my dork, elite, or shaman if I get 2 cards for my troubles? On the flip, it can be a terrible topdeck when you are trying to rebuild with no board where lead can be an awesome topdeck to keep you grinding. Thoughts?
3. With Steel Leaf Champion coming out, I think its an awesome card that can help us out. I would replace shaman, visionary, or in my case essence wardens to make room. I have heard multiple people in this thread and the previous primer wish, hope, and pray for an elf that can stand up to most of the damage/ -x/-x based removal/ boardwipes and hear we are. I agree that it might not have as powerful as Archdruid/Ezuri/Shaman on synergy but don't forget that it is still an elf that does tap to Heritage( not that you would want to), gives us an extra mana with Archdruid, pumps into a 8/7 trampling monster with Ezuri, and still gives you an extra point of damage with shaman. Imagine turn 2ing a heritage/ elite move with archdruid and steel leaf champion in hand. each will require most opponents to deal with. The main thing that I tell people is that I have more creatures than you have removal and having another threat that must be answered is useful, and he is a valuable topdeck. That's 11 must remove creatures in my deck that can take over that board(Archdruid, Ezuri, SL Champion) My issue is that after shaman does his thing, he is an underwhelming 3/2 with no other abilities. now don't get me wrong, shaman is an amazing card that I most likely wont cut because I love the midrange reach especially vs decks like lantern but I would put SL champion right at his level. What he lacks in capitalizing on the elf synergy he makes up for in sheer stand alone threat and that's something that shouldnt be overlooked.
Thanks for taking the time to read. I'm known as the elf guy at my LGS because that's the only deck I've ever played since eventide (I called it my WWE deck- Wolfs, Worms, and Elves) and I don't plan on changing anytime soon. Keep on doing Elf things and keep posting because I love reading about everyones take on our favorite forest loving tribal mamma-jammas.
After a break for about 2 years from Magic, i restarted playing and build a pretty basic elves List because i have always been a big fan of the deck in general.
4 Devoted Druid
4 Dwynen's Elite
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Vizier of Remedies
4 Collected Company
Lands:
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Forest
4 Horizon Canopy
3 Razorverge Thicket
1 Templa Garden
2 Windswept Heath
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Elvish Champion
1 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Choke
2 Rest in Peace
2 Shapers' Sanctuary
My local Meta is pretty diverse (Mono U/G/GB Tron, Gbx , Grixis, Mono B) , so far so good.
I really struggle against Grixis, especially against Grixis Control. It almost feels like 80/20 in Grixis favour. Often i find myself clueless what to board out.
At the moment i get rid of my 4 Devoted Druid and my Vizier of Remedies since going into the combo is almost impossible vs a deck which is flushed with creature removal, even more in the sideboard games.
Any further sideboard advice against this kind of matchup. To me it seems to be one of the worst matchups which i could face with elves.
Best regards
Khalar
Modern:
Pauper:
Yeah, I've been looking through the thread for a long time and thought your list was a good baseline for Abzan Elves, just splashing B for Shamans. I really like the reach the Shamans give, but didn't want to sacrifice the hate cards/toolbox approach of GW and go B/G so you're list seemed like a good hybrid. I'm hoping to play a modern tournament at my LGS this Thursday so there will likely be tweaks after that.
As for the mana base, the lack of Canopies is really the only thing I don't like. Currently trying to track get my hands on a couple copies from Iconic Masters due to the high cost of the original printing from Future Sight but they fly off the shelf at my LGS. If I get impatient I'll probably just break down and pick up one or two Future Sight copies and swap out 1 forest and 1 Thicket.
I've edited my original post to credit you for the list. Sorry about that!
GGG
Creature — Elf Knight
5/4
Steel Leaf Champion can't be blocked by creatures with power 2 or less.
Woolly Thoctar that’s an elf and can’t be blocked by Lingering Souls? Can be hit by BBE, CoCo, or Lead??? Seems... gud.
If you look up “power-creep” in the dictionary there’s a picture of this card next to it.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
He’s good in a nutshell. But doesn’t belong in CoCo elves imo. He’s nothing more than a beatstick and our other 3cmc creatures have more purpose. Come on wizards, show us more elves!!
I figured it’d get that response. He’s more or less “vanilla” and is competing for a slot that already has a lot of depth. And while I figured it’d get played down, I feel like it’s too easy to understate how much of a beat-stick he really is. We generally depend on amassing a lot of Elves to be truly effective, and each elf depends a lot on the next. Not this guy. You hit him off BBE and suddenly you have 8 power worth of beat on the board, right then and there. You hit him off a CoCo EoT on an open board, and suddenly you have 5 power and a dork (or an Elvish Champion!) to swing with. You play him turn-two and now your opponent has to have the removal by turn three or they get a huge chunk of life bitten off, making Shaman’s job that much easier. Follow their removal with your turn-three BBE or CoCo. I don’t think he fits our combo-ish plan that well, but he goes well as at least a two-of in a grindier BG or BRG build. I for one am excited about him and will certainly be trying him out. I think it’s a trap to act reserved and uninterested about this kind of raw beat in an elf. He gives us yet another angle.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
What would you drop for him? All our creatures are pretty critical. In my opinion, he is best in a green stompy deck. Definitely not saying he’s not good. He’s just a clear upgrade over Leatherback Baloth.
I think this card is quite good.
He does something none of our other 3 drops do, survive bolt and get dirty in combat without lords. The fact that my opponent can go for an alpha strike and get brick walled by TWO of these off an otherwise unassuming board if I coco is quite insane. 4 mana ten power at instant speed is powerful enough for modern. Add just one lord to the mix and he starts eating gurmag anglers, tasigur, eldrazi, hollow ones, etc.
The fact that weaker stuff can't jump in front of him is not irrelevant.
His cmc opens up the potential for another type of deck building. Maybe nykthos and aspect of the hydra are worth looking into now; heck maybe ghalta? Who knows. But that's the kind of build provoking I want from new printings. How does this change the deck, what does it bring that I don't already have, and is it better/easier to execute this new game plan?
For example, what does burn do about this? What does burn do about two of them? Edilon can be quite strong vs us if we're forced to dig for an out. This closes that gap considerably.
You're quick to dismiss but this is supported by our current cast of elves considerably. T1 dork into this is a heck of a start for anything with red removal. It's a GREAT coco hit at instant speed on defense or offense. We could have said the same for shaman of the pack, but it warped the deck for a very different and successful play style. Heck look at what vizier of remedies has done. It's a non tribe off color card that is making us run 4 devoted druids...eating up 5 slots and forcing the number of ezuris up to 4.
This has potential, a lot of potential.
It’s easy to spin it however we want.
-You say he doesn’t produce a ton of mana like Archdruid.
I say Archdruid doesn’t produce a ton of mana unless you meet the condition of maintaining a board state.
-You say he doesn’t buff our other Elves.
I say you have to meet the condition of having other Eves to buff in order to buff them. I say this card doesn’t need any buffs to be a threat.
-You say he doesn’t preserve our other Elves.
I say this is an Elf you don’t have to preserve from the likes of Anger of the Gods, Lightning Bolt, and Abrade.
-You say he doesn’t drain a ton of life the turn he comes down.
I say Shaman only drains a ton of life if you meet the condition of having a ton of Elves on the board. I say this card threatens to drain 5 life the following turn unless he is dealt with, no matter what kind of board state you have.
And mapccu simply said it opens up potential for different deck building, not that it required different deck building. I don’t think you’d have to change much at all to fit it in a BG or BRG build. I think the combo is significantly worse now anyway with all the Lightning Bolts running around. I’d much rather play against a GW Elves list when I’m running Jund than a BG or Jund Elves list. Now that I think of it, this is a very Jundy type Elf. He doesn’t need synergism. He can make good use of it as one of the most powerful tribes in the game, but he doesn’t require it. He’s good all on his own, and THAT diversifies our threats and stretches our opponent’s removal.
The Sphere is exciting in general, but it hurts us too. I don’t want to have to pay additional mana if I want to play more than one Elf a turn.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
I think that is probably the strongest argument for his inclusion is that he benefits and bolsters our existing synergies without relying on them. He would be the one elf that doesn't require another elf or more to be around to be a good draw. (Elite, archdruid, ezuri, champion, heritage, sotp all require board presence to access the cards ability). Never forget the time I had a cavern in play, top decked a sotp and ran it out on an opponent at one. Trigger on the stack bounce your shaman draw a card with cryptic commmand... I ended up losing that game too. None of our three drops end the game as is unless you have gobs of mana and an ezuri.
Sphere may dictate the need for more reclaimation sages accross the 75. It isn't like we're hurting for targets ATM anyway, and I could see sphere being a sideboard card that is more beneficial than plenty of mainboard stuff in a bevy of decks and will show up often post sideboard. If most of your matches end up being 3 games, this will come up often and it's best to be prepared.
If I may weigh in, I think it has interesting things going for it. Yes, I do believe the lack of synergy is disappointing. I think Elves only survives on synergy (think success of GW) and not having any except for an occasional buff is critical. However, the stats themselves can warrant some outside-of-the-box thinking. 5/4 does evade Anger of the Gods (usually our arch nemesis) and stops most Eldrazi by itself.
Basically, I think it would replace Shaman. The direction of the deck will go away from BG to something like RG stompy in which this new elf can be cast off of a cascade like some of you mentioned. Is it better than BG? Testing will tell, but that is the most natural transition.
I think to try and keep all of the three drops, Shaman, Ezuri, Archdruid while trying to fit this in is impossible. I don’t see Ezuri and Archdruid going anywhere, so Shaman is the only logical replacement. Perhaps the success of the June Elves gives some players a shell to work this new guy in while smoothing out the mana. This does open up some possibilities for Blood Moon in the sideboard as well.
All I can say is, I have been a proponent of new tech since the beginning. Syreal reminded me of that when I was more skeptical of Bloodbraid Elf. So, I think we should, at least, test this guy to see if we can come up with something cool.
I know I will.
BGElvesBG and BUGNissa ElvesBUG Faithful Elfer since May 1st, 2015
Results: SCG IQ Top 8, Monthly Modern Masters Top 4
Sylvan Awakening
2(G)
Sorcery
Until your next turn, all lands you control becomes 2/2 Elemental creatures with reach, indestructible, and haste. They are still lands.
Seems like a solid side board option for the grindy matchups. And another plus is you can hit it with BBE and just attack with everything that turn without worrying about losing any lands, well unless they path a land lol.
Edit- I guess it would have been better if it said untap all lands first. Oh well.
No I feel ya, man. I really do. Personally I'm stoked about taking the card for a spin. Thank goodness there are much more devoted grinders and proficient players than me that'll give it the reps it needs to really get a clear look at it. It doesn't have the synergism the other 3cmc Elves do and I understand the downside of that and why you're not for it. For me this isn't nearly enough of a downside to quench my enthusiasm about how independently powerful the card is. None of our other Elves (barring BBE) share this trait. Independently powerful while still receiving all the boons provided by the other, more synergistic Elves. I feel like we both understand what the other is saying and have similar conceptualizations of the pros and cons of the card, we're just ascribing different weights to each. Honestly, the only thing I find contentious (*controversial) is the presumption (*an idea that is taken to be true although it is not known for certain) that the card is out of line enough with what "Collected Company Elves" is trying to accomplish that it shouldn't even be considered. It seems a hasty conclusion to me.
On the Sphere: I'm extremely stoked about this card. I'm not a big fan of Tron; it doesn't fit my playstyle and the decks I enjoy piloting almost always get preyed on by it. Of course this is not in the slightest the same as "I think the deck is dumb and I don't think it should exist in the meta", but I feel the need to clarify. Any checks and balances for Tron, whether we're running them or other meta decks are running them, will have an advocate in me. I will definitely be trying this card out (in this deck and others). Still, I have my reservations about it slowing our Elfball down.
mikeduges,
Well said. Very interesting (and seemingly very viable) proposals. I'd sure hate to have Shaman be the opportunity cost of running the new Elf. SotP is the main (yet not only) reason I play BG over WG. The impeccable manabase is why I run it over WBG.
These are exciting times for Modern, I'll tell ya.
Edit: Edited to clarify the intended use of "contentious" and "presumptuous". I don't feel like my use was clear and the other uses/definitions of the words sound a lot harsher than was my intention.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
Guys, I haven't been playing much Elves at all lately. I was on Living End for quite a while and I've since jumped right back on Jund now that we have our old friend back. I could really use some help with my SB. Here it is at the moment:
1x Elvish Champion
1x Glissa, the Traitor
1x Chameleon Colossus
2x Fracturing Gust
1x Abrupt Decay
2x Garruk Relentless
1x Prowess of the Fair
1x Shapers' Sanctuary
3x Thoughtseize
2x Nihil Spellbomb
I think the deck is pretty standard for BG.
Some specifics:
-I'm running a 2/2 split between Lead and Chord.
-I'm' running 1x MB Scavenging Ooze.
-Throne of the God Pharaoh, Elves of Deep Shadow, and the third Elvish Visionary have all been competing for the last flex slot for some time now and with no established winner when I put the deck down last.
Apart from that I think it's relatively stock.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
4 Windswept Heath
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Temple Garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Gilt Leaf Palace
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Stomping Ground
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Heritage druid
3 Essence Warden
4 Dwynen's Elite
4 Elvish Visionary
1 Selfless Spirit
3 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4 Elvish Archdruid
3 Shaman of the Pack
4 Collected Company
4 Chord of Calling
3 Shapers' Sanctuary
3 Stain the Mind
2 Fracturing Gust
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Tajuru Preserver
1 Aegis of the Gods
1 Loaming Shaman
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Chameleon Colossus
The main questions are conserning my side board. My main issues are with Storm, Hulk Footsteps, and other combo decks. I got into a debate with one of the storm/UR pyromancer players who told me that stain the mind is a useless card as well as shapers' sanctuary. His opinion is that I should just use cards like thoughtseize( Instead of Stain), layline of sanctity(Instead of sanctuary and aegis), and Rest in Piece( Instead of Loaming Shaman). My train of thought is running chordable bullets, but I've been trying non chordable spells.
1. What are thoughts on Stain the Mind vs hand disruption? I like stain the mind because we can convoke by turn 3 most of the time and remove a combo piece without having to allow them to cast be first(Surgical Extraction), which normally means we're already dead. I know that TS, Inquisition, and even thought-knot seer, can remove combo pieces from hand but predicting when they are about to go off, when most combo decks are pretty proficient at digging for pieces after being hit by disruption, is pretty tough and I like just removing the pieces from the game. I like Stain because it is my payoff card vs combo where hand disruption is trying to slow them down enough to win. Thoughts?
2. Lead vs Sanctuary: mainly with Jund. Which would you guys recommend? Sanctuary makes all that removal they boast turn into card advantage to continue grinding and they stack effects with makes them better the more you have. Hey do you want to fatal push my dork, elite, or shaman if I get 2 cards for my troubles? On the flip, it can be a terrible topdeck when you are trying to rebuild with no board where lead can be an awesome topdeck to keep you grinding. Thoughts?
3. With Steel Leaf Champion coming out, I think its an awesome card that can help us out. I would replace shaman, visionary, or in my case essence wardens to make room. I have heard multiple people in this thread and the previous primer wish, hope, and pray for an elf that can stand up to most of the damage/ -x/-x based removal/ boardwipes and hear we are. I agree that it might not have as powerful as Archdruid/Ezuri/Shaman on synergy but don't forget that it is still an elf that does tap to Heritage( not that you would want to), gives us an extra mana with Archdruid, pumps into a 8/7 trampling monster with Ezuri, and still gives you an extra point of damage with shaman. Imagine turn 2ing a heritage/ elite move with archdruid and steel leaf champion in hand. each will require most opponents to deal with. The main thing that I tell people is that I have more creatures than you have removal and having another threat that must be answered is useful, and he is a valuable topdeck. That's 11 must remove creatures in my deck that can take over that board(Archdruid, Ezuri, SL Champion) My issue is that after shaman does his thing, he is an underwhelming 3/2 with no other abilities. now don't get me wrong, shaman is an amazing card that I most likely wont cut because I love the midrange reach especially vs decks like lantern but I would put SL champion right at his level. What he lacks in capitalizing on the elf synergy he makes up for in sheer stand alone threat and that's something that shouldnt be overlooked.
Thanks for taking the time to read. I'm known as the elf guy at my LGS because that's the only deck I've ever played since eventide (I called it my WWE deck- Wolfs, Worms, and Elves) and I don't plan on changing anytime soon. Keep on doing Elf things and keep posting because I love reading about everyones take on our favorite forest loving tribal mamma-jammas.
Anyone find success with BBE in elves yet?
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/240138323?t=01h46m56s
Top 32 list at GP Phoenix. Ctrl+F on Ezuri to skip the chaff.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gppho18/grand-prix-phoenix-top-32-decklists-2018-03-18
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG