Relic and RIP in all points of the game will impact the GY. Leyline does not do this and you would Mulligan to 6 for a chance to get leyline into your hand. The minimum turn to play it is on t3, in which case they already did a lot of their powerful plays and filled the GY, you are stuck with a potentially dead card for a few turns.
Relic drawing a card is a powerful effect in itself, since my land see doesn't include horizon canopy or play visionary. So cantripping while impacting the GY is a better option. Recently started to test just scooze for GY hate. But I might go back to MB scooze and SB relic for not only slot purposes; I think scooze is in a perfect position to be MB ATM with all the snap decks and GY decks.
If anything, it is a powerful bear in the mid game after they used their removal on our dorks.
What do we cut to fit another 3 drop in? Also, it's putting it on top of your library and not in to your hand so it's a very slow tutor. I feel like if you are in need of finding an Ezuri quickly you'd be better off with Summoner's Pact. Then at least you can cast and activate him immediately and surprise your opponent rather than show them what's coming.
As a disclaimer, I don't think Summoner's Pact is worth a slot either, but I'd lean towards that before Harbinger.
Elvish Harbinger is not good. It’s an overcosted body, that acts as an additional Llanowar Elves and it doesn’t draw you a card. We already have better consistency tools that allow us to dig through the deck AND get ahead on cards on the board or in the hand (Collected Company and Lead the Stampede). We also have access to a card that can grab the exact Elf we need and put it directly into play (Chord of Calling).
Harbinger just does a “meh” job at all of those things, so why not just select one of the cards that do most of those things, but better?
hey guys. havent frequented this thread recently since my primary deck is jeskai control, but i still have elves sleeved up and play it occasionally. i havent updated my list in a long while (like close to 2 years), but would be interested to read any feedback on small adjustments better suited to the current format.
Pretty straight forward, I would cut champion to the SB. Since the main offenders of tournaments are non-forest decks. Adding shaman or another scooze to attack the current metagame. Personally I am playing 2 scooze ATM.
SB-wise, Patrick whitelow got to 10th place with elves at an scg regionals. He had 3 damp spheres in there, unsure if they won him any games vs. Tron or amulet Titan. But in any case, it would help to SB them for those match ups. I would also cut corrosion for another gust, bogles has also been on the rise. Unless your regionals typically doesn't do a whole lot of bogles and more affinity.
What do we cut to fit another 3 drop in? Also, it's putting it on top of your library and not in to your hand so it's a very slow tutor. I feel like if you are in need of finding an Ezuri quickly you'd be better off with Summoner's Pact. Then at least you can cast and activate him immediately and surprise your opponent rather than show them what's coming.
As a disclaimer, I don't think Summoner's Pact is worth a slot either, but I'd lean towards that before Harbinger.
Elvish Harbinger is not good. It’s an overcosted body, that acts as an additional Llanowar Elves and it doesn’t draw you a card. We already have better consistency tools that allow us to dig through the deck AND get ahead on cards on the board or in the hand (Collected Company and Lead the Stampede). We also have access to a card that can grab the exact Elf we need and put it directly into play (Chord of Calling).
Harbinger just does a “meh” job at all of those things, so why not just select one of the cards that do most of those things, but better?
Thanks for your thoughts. They make sense to me. I am a casual player thinking of getting into some modern at a local store with my druid deck, I will post it soon. I am just working through this and don't want to ask superfluous questions.
I notice there is not a lot of love for Imperious Perfect. I would have thought a better card compared to Elvish Champion, since it means we can still drop elves when we are out of cards. Good with other IP's and our Archdruid too (or even the champion).
Pretty straight forward, I would cut champion to the SB. Since the main offenders of tournaments are non-forest decks. Adding shaman or another scooze to attack the current metagame. Personally I am playing 2 scooze ATM.
SB-wise, Patrick whitelow got to 10th place with elves at an scg regionals. He had 3 damp spheres in there, unsure if they won him any games vs. Tron or amulet Titan. But in any case, it would help to SB them for those match ups. I would also cut corrosion for another gust, bogles has also been on the rise. Unless your regionals typically doesn't do a whole lot of bogles and more affinity.
yeah champion is sort of average. its nice having another lord effect around to supplement the beatdown plan, but i could see having another bullet or 4th shaman maindeck being more useful.
2nd gust sounds right, though not sure what i would cut for the damping spheres.
maybe ill start with cutting champion for 2nd scooze main, gust over corrosion, and cut essence warden for 2 spheres.
thanks
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
As for the main page, I think we need to update the SB card guide for 2018. Merfolk is getting an update thanks to it's community.
I would like to propose a list of cards to update as well for 2018.
scavenging ooze is the main GY hate card that can be tutored off chord and LTS, you can play it off heritage Mana and almost instantly attack their GY. It is a very MB-able card atm thanks to all the snap decks and hollow one. It is even good against burn and the control decks because of logic knot. MB 1/ SB 1 or MB 2 to attack your regionals metagame.
It is very good against a heavy hollow one, creature based format like humans. You want it on the draw vs. control decks because you want a bit less spells, and more creatures for them to deal with. Since G1 will always be a linear gameplan, this isn't an elf to produce Mana.
reclamation sage is a powerful toolbox elf atm. It is very good against amulet Titan, aethervial, and hollow one. All of which are recently popular decks. MB interaction against affinity is also a plus, and killing off a t2 azcanta against control means they can't filter their draw step, which is good for you to hasten your gameplan.
MB 1/ SB 1 seems to be the main plan with this card atm, which is fine since there is no way to know if the card will interact with the lower rounds of the tournament (i.e. non pyromancer storm decks, ad nauseum, etc.)
I'll continue with more cards later since I have to work, but I'll continue to update with my thoughts and choices on MB and SB cards.
I think the main is fine. The manabase could be tweaked a little bit. I try to get my hands on 3 extra copies of Cavern of Souls to fight through Chalice. What Lands would you cut? 2x Forest and 1x Blooming Marsh?
I'm toying around with 2x Elves of the Deep Shadow to provide black mana. I'm thinking on cutting 2x Nettle Sentinel... it's one of the cards I board out the most.
For the Meta I expect a lot of UWx and Jund.
Some thoughts on my sideboard:
-Duress & Thoughtseize against any combodecks and also Control to get rid off massremoval. Also Duress comes handy against Burn. I thought about Stain the Mind but I'm not sure if this card is to slow. What's your experience?
-Fracutring Gust & Reclamation Sage against Affinity, Lantern, KCI and other Artifactbased decks. Would you bring RecSage vs. Burn to handle Eidolon?
-Abrupt Decay & Dismember for the mirror and GWx Companydecks also for Merfolk, DnT and Humans. The Dismember could be a third Decay but Dismember can deal some Eldrazi.
-Relic of Progenitus against all GYdecks. Not sure if 2x Scavenging Ooze are better in this spot. Relic draws a card while Ooze is more flexible and is also very good against burn. Maybe I'll swap the Relics.
-Golgari Charm for the mirror, Affinity, Pyromancer and as a sweeper protection. I like this card very much because it's flexible. With a Archdruid on the board you will whipe your opps board then the whole. Sold on this card.
-Chameleon Colossus against all BR decks and also autowin against Shadow.
-Heroic Intervention is one card I will cut for sure. It is to reactive and the chance of drawing a one off is pretty small. I guess this could be another copy of a previous mentioned sideboardcard.
Would like to hear your feedback
If I have a little bit more time and settled for the final list I would to showcase a short SB-Guide. It helps me a lot to do it before an event so I can focus on playing and not thinking to much while sideboarding!
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Modern: 5c Humans//Devoted Company
Legacy: Maverick
Pauper: UB Delver
You wouldn't want 4 cavern of souls for chalice, chalice is the least played card right now. Hence the $50-60 price tag. Cavern is just for permission vs. the jeskai control decks. But you would relatively beat them fast G1 and side into a grind match up.
G/B elves have been seeing a lot more play, including recent SCGs. I think both are fine, it is a player preference.
I would cut thoughtseize and duress completely for either 3 IoK or 3 TS. TS nets you every card in their hand, but a lot of control decks have been going cheap with removal and permission. I prefer TS because it allows you to hit a timely t4 supreme verdict and good vs. tron/Titan shift.
I would cut a visionary for one rec sage, I think rec sage is a very MB-able right now against humans, and it allows you to hit azcanta. Which is a very small interaction, but it is a powerful one nonetheless. It frees up a slot in the SB, and I would just play 2 fracturing gust and cut the 2nd rec sage.
I also love golgari charm, it helps vs. board wipes. It is soft removal against pyromancer, and it hits eidolon. I would also be boarding in this card against niche match ups like bogles, faeries, etc.
I would want to bump relic to 3, you want to see it in your opening hand as much as possible in the match ups you want it against. Dredge, hollow one, storm all go very quickly with faithless looting as a powerful engine. It is technically better than scooze in these specific match ups because it is harder to interact with. Scooze is better for jeskai because it can start being big and it is a 2/2 bear, meaning another threat. But relic against them is fine as well to turn off logic knots. Relic is overall the better choice imo for control meta, scooze is better in a creature meta.
I would also like to see dampening sphere for the Tron/titanshift match up. It interrupts their game plan emvery heavily.
I feel the SB would be this heading into a tournament.
SB;
3 thoughtseize
3 relic of progenitus
3 dampening sphere
2 fracturing gust
1 thrun, the last troll (if you have him)/ colossus works as well for jund
1 golgari charm
2 dismember depending on how many spheres you are playing (good interaction vsm hollow one and kills tasigur, etc.) You also want interaction for the humans match up unless you are taking it to aggro town.
Abrupt decay is in an awkward spot as it doesn't do anything for you as most of your SB cards have everything covered. You would have to ask yourself why it is good going into a control format.
Match up wise, I have no idea how to board out as I picked up the deck 2 weeks ago, in terms of boarding in. I have some knowledge thanks to my friends playing modern/legacy elves.
Control:
3 TS
1 thrun
3 relic if it's a snap/delve deck.
Dredge:
3 relic
Tron/amulet Titan:
3 dampening sphere
2-3 TS if you want to cut some LTS for interaction on their hand.
2 dismember for amulet Titan ONLY, it stops their kill combo and allows your to chump your dudes in front of it after the spell resolves.
Jund:
3 relic
2 dismember
1 golgari charm
3 TS
It turns into a grind match up and the golgari charm is basically a removal spell for dark confidant. You want that off the board asap at all times if possible. It's also flexible against Explosives and damnation.
Humans:
2 dismember
1 chameleon colossus or thrun
You basically try to combo as fast as possible keeping the deck intact, the dismember is to interact with mantis rider and champ of the parish.
Hollow one:
3 relic
2 dismember
1 thrun/colossus
Interaction for GY, kill hollow one to stop magma phoenixes, and a large body to block hollow ones and bloodghast.
Storm:
3 relic
3 TS
Dampening sphere isn't very good imo, if they have access to your list. They just board in artifact hate, which you can use psychologically to your favor and just play relics to keep the yard clean and TS to interact with their sculpted hand.
If you want to know about any other match ups or prefer SB changes, lmk.
I am new to modern magic. I have been playing limited the last couple years. I wanted to get into construction and I have always loved Elves. I played in my first FNM last week and went 3-0 against Tron, Jund and Burn. Here is my current list and my other sideboard that I have considered. What do you guys think? I know I probably need Cavern of Souls but I can't pick some up yet. I think the field this Friday will be around 25.
I am a long time casual player who is thinking of getting into modern at a local store. My playgroup allows proxies, so I am faced with spending a lot of money to get my deck to a playable level. I also do not know whether I will enjoy this experience. It has occurred to me that (my wife and I are quite broke atm) I should play for a bit with a subpar deck to see if I like the experience. I know I will lose a lot but I can't afford to spend cash for no reason right now. So I thought I might get some advice from you of how to roll my cards in glitter so to speak:
The 2x Duress is due budget. I only own 2 copies of Thoughtseize. I thought about IoK but this card isn't able to hit Karn, Ugin, Damnation or Verdict.
Thrun vs. Colossus is interesting! I thought Colossus fits better because it's an "elf". Thrun could be handy versus controldecks.
I'm not fully sold on Damping Sphere. Isn't the drawback too big and aren't we faster then tron/can slow them down with discard?
@johngag
congrats to your result!
I think Tenshirou said a lot that affects you too. I'm not a big fan of the Unclaimed Territory. I would consider 2x green fetchland to have more access on black sources if needed. Also your Sideboard consists of a lot of non-elves which could to akward situations with the Unclaimed Territory.
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Modern: 5c Humans//Devoted Company
Legacy: Maverick
Pauper: UB Delver
The list can cut one damp sphere and one TS, going to two.
Add in 2 Nissa, voice of zendikar. It is a very strong powerhouse card as well vs. mid-range and control decks. It is also castable by t2 with heritage Mana.
Not my list, but it should look something like this.
I got wrecked at a local FNM when I played against it and have been interested in building it since then.
Opinions of this version? Feels pretty grindy imo, and can get through clogged-up board states better with throne of the god pharaoh, and coiling oracle is slightly stronger than visionary. Not as good with finding the elf you need at the right moment though with the lack of coco and chord. Don't know if you can cram in some of those in the list.
Would be interesting in hearing some opinions if you tried something similar.
Hi everyone, been working on a super cheap deck that I could take to a modern night. This will cost me about $30 to finish. I think it is pretty good (for a very cheap 'johnny' deck), but I am sure I will be wrong
56 Cards with 4 Blank spaces... possibly Lead the Stampede or Vines of Vastwood or a mixture of both. Perhaps another 2 forests as you really don't want to miss a drop for the first 3 turns, 4 all the better.
Aim: To steal your opponents land on turn 4. If you draw a G weenie, an archdruid and a glitleaf druid you are almost certain to do it. Without an archdruid or gilt leaf it is still reasonably possible with a harbinger or 'unlikely but possible' with channellers. You are almost always going to do it on turn 5, mind you you can usually just overrun with Ezuri then.
This is of course baring any disruptions, of which they're will be lots.
Essentially the combination of a Gilt-Leaf and an Archdruid means you are drawing each time you play a creature with your mana. When your land is out you can tap the Archdruid who will hopefully give you 5 or 6 mana to keep playing druids and drawing. Once you get 7 druids in play, your opponents land is yours.
The four blank spots I am not sure what to do with... Yes Collected Company is the obvious one but it is also $15 a card so unlikely to be there anytime soon.
My expectation is that perhaps I would win 25-33% of my games on a casual modern night at the local store. I understand I am not rocking collected company or cavern of souls.
An ideal start would be:
t1: forest & weenie
2: forest & archdruid
3: forest & glitleaf & weenie(D) / weenie & glitleaf & weenie(D) giving you either 4 or 5 druids out, with 3-5 Cards. It is easy to get to 7 untapped druids on turn 4 from there.
Without an archdruid in your hand you can play channelers and hope for a top-deck land which sorts you out. Better yet you can play a harbinger to grab the druid, but that means 5 accessable mana with no draw on turn 3. If you have lots of weenies you can get into a position with weenie/harbinger/archdruid/weenie/weenie. If one of those is a heritage druid you can get another 3 cost card out, meaning 6 druids with glit leaf in your land.
Without glitleaf turns 1 and 2 are the same. On turn 3 you can harbinger with 4-5 mana accessible via your arch and weenie. Means you can get 5-6 out but be careful as without glitleaf you aren't drawing. Better to cast 3 cost druids and save the weenie drops for turn 4, in which you really need that draw to get to 7 untapped (or just have a few weenies in your hand)
What do people think? Am I overrating the capacity of this deck? (You can be honest I won't mind)
While Gilt-Leaf Archdruid is a fun card (not for your opponent), it seems like you're investing a lot of time/card slots in setting up the Gilt-Leaf, only to clear the way for an Ezuri win later. If you instead focus on setting up the Ezuri win primarily (which is what most mono-G lists aim for), then it speeds up your gameplan and cuts out some of the other cards that do not contribute much, other than to count as a Druid.
In short, the Gilt-Leaf Archdruid is a fun win-more card which probably shines more in multi-player or kitchen table Magic but will be too slow and clunky for competitive modern.
Cheers for the input. What you have said I basically already know in my heart, but the issue is that I can't really afford to run a straight Ezuri just yet, whereas I have nearly all of the cards (aside from Heritage druid) for my proposed build.
In short, the Gilt-Leaf Archdruid is a fun win-more card which probably shines more in multi-player or kitchen table Magic but will be too slow and clunky for competitive modern.
I certainly agree with this. But if I did rock up with that build, what percentage of games do you think I would win? Only 10% when the other side gets mana blocked? 25%? What you have basically said to me is that it is "not optimal" which I am sure is the case, but I am wondering how "non competitive" it actually is.
What you have basically said to me is that it is "not optimal"
Fair enough. If you have a suboptimal list, one choice is to play a "best efforts" list that tries to fill in the missing gaps with the "next best thing" that's available, in order to try and preserve the focus of the deck. The other choice is to play a similar deck with a different strategy, filling in what's missing from one deck with another package of cards that leads it down a different path.
Gilt-Leaf is a different strategy for sure, so we have to look at what makes it different from the other elf decks. It's slower, and activating the Gilt-Leaf doesn't necessarily win you the game, whereas activating Ezuri almost always puts you close to the finish line, if not over it. Fast decks like burn or affiniti can probably handle a land reset if they have a decent board presence. However it's definitely a hard blow to control. If your meta is control-heavy, the Gilt-Leaf approach might be good. Additionally, having the critical mass of druids means you're playing a lot of cards that are not really strong by themselves, like Boreal Druid. I think for these reasons, your win rate would decline compared to option #1, though I can't put a % number on it.
If you wanted to change your list to run closer to a stock list, I would recommend moving away from Gilt-leaf and trying to the 'best available' budget options. The expensive parts you're missing are really just CoCo and Chord. You can probably keep the Harbinger as a "pseudo-chord" and fill your last slots with Lead the Stampede, instead of CoCo. I'd swap your Boreal Druids with Nettle Sentinels, and the Gilt-Leaf Archdruids for Dwynen's Elite or Elvish Visionary. The Channelers can probably stay if you like them. Their best replacement would be Shaman of the Pack, but then you're dipping into black and have to shore up the manabase - which costs money. If you want some flex slots to play with, the Arbor Elves are redundant with 4x Llanowar/Mystic already.
But before you go changing everything up, first play with what you have and see how it goes. It may end up doing well, despite my doubts. Playtesting will be a better judge than any amount of writing I can do on a forum.
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Relic drawing a card is a powerful effect in itself, since my land see doesn't include horizon canopy or play visionary. So cantripping while impacting the GY is a better option. Recently started to test just scooze for GY hate. But I might go back to MB scooze and SB relic for not only slot purposes; I think scooze is in a perfect position to be MB ATM with all the snap decks and GY decks.
If anything, it is a powerful bear in the mid game after they used their removal on our dorks.
As a disclaimer, I don't think Summoner's Pact is worth a slot either, but I'd lean towards that before Harbinger.
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
Harbinger just does a “meh” job at all of those things, so why not just select one of the cards that do most of those things, but better?
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Heritage Druid
3 Elvish Visionary
4 Dwynen's Elite
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Nettle Sentinel
3 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
3 Shaman of the Pack
1 Elvish Champion
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Chord of Calling
4 Forests
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Gilt-Leaf Palace
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Temple Garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Chord of Calling
2 Lead the Stampede
1 Dismember
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Reclamation Sage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Essence Warden
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Phyrexian Revoker
i know the vizier combo was in vogue for a while, but i kind of just ignored it (lol). any thoughts are welcome.
cheers
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)SB-wise, Patrick whitelow got to 10th place with elves at an scg regionals. He had 3 damp spheres in there, unsure if they won him any games vs. Tron or amulet Titan. But in any case, it would help to SB them for those match ups. I would also cut corrosion for another gust, bogles has also been on the rise. Unless your regionals typically doesn't do a whole lot of bogles and more affinity.
Thanks for your thoughts. They make sense to me. I am a casual player thinking of getting into some modern at a local store with my druid deck, I will post it soon. I am just working through this and don't want to ask superfluous questions.
I notice there is not a lot of love for Imperious Perfect. I would have thought a better card compared to Elvish Champion, since it means we can still drop elves when we are out of cards. Good with other IP's and our Archdruid too (or even the champion).
Thoughts on why this is not a popular card?
yeah champion is sort of average. its nice having another lord effect around to supplement the beatdown plan, but i could see having another bullet or 4th shaman maindeck being more useful.
2nd gust sounds right, though not sure what i would cut for the damping spheres.
maybe ill start with cutting champion for 2nd scooze main, gust over corrosion, and cut essence warden for 2 spheres.
thanks
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)I would like to propose a list of cards to update as well for 2018.
scavenging ooze is the main GY hate card that can be tutored off chord and LTS, you can play it off heritage Mana and almost instantly attack their GY. It is a very MB-able card atm thanks to all the snap decks and hollow one. It is even good against burn and the control decks because of logic knot. MB 1/ SB 1 or MB 2 to attack your regionals metagame.
It is very good against a heavy hollow one, creature based format like humans. You want it on the draw vs. control decks because you want a bit less spells, and more creatures for them to deal with. Since G1 will always be a linear gameplan, this isn't an elf to produce Mana.
reclamation sage is a powerful toolbox elf atm. It is very good against amulet Titan, aethervial, and hollow one. All of which are recently popular decks. MB interaction against affinity is also a plus, and killing off a t2 azcanta against control means they can't filter their draw step, which is good for you to hasten your gameplan.
MB 1/ SB 1 seems to be the main plan with this card atm, which is fine since there is no way to know if the card will interact with the lower rounds of the tournament (i.e. non pyromancer storm decks, ad nauseum, etc.)
I'll continue with more cards later since I have to work, but I'll continue to update with my thoughts and choices on MB and SB cards.
I want to to participate on a bigger event this sunday. I'm torn between GWu Vizier Company and BG Elves but I think I will sleeve up elves.
Since I'm a bit inexperienced with the deck I wanted to ask you if you would change something on my list:
4x Llanowar Elves
4x Elvish Mystic
4x Heritage Druid
4x Nettle Sentinel
4x Evlish Visionary
4x Dwnywen's Elite
4x Elvish Archdruid
4x Shaman of the Pack
3x Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4x Lead the Stampede
4x Collected Company
Lands:
5x Forest
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Overgrown Tomb
4x Blooming Marsh
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Pendelhaven
1x Chameleon Colossus
2x Reclamation Sage
1x Dismember
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Golgari Charm
1x Heroic Intervention
2x Relic of Progenitus
1x Fracturing Gust
2x Duress
2x Thoughtseize
I think the main is fine. The manabase could be tweaked a little bit. I try to get my hands on 3 extra copies of Cavern of Souls to fight through Chalice. What Lands would you cut? 2x Forest and 1x Blooming Marsh?
I'm toying around with 2x Elves of the Deep Shadow to provide black mana. I'm thinking on cutting 2x Nettle Sentinel... it's one of the cards I board out the most.
For the Meta I expect a lot of UWx and Jund.
Some thoughts on my sideboard:
-Duress & Thoughtseize against any combodecks and also Control to get rid off massremoval. Also Duress comes handy against Burn. I thought about Stain the Mind but I'm not sure if this card is to slow. What's your experience?
-Fracutring Gust & Reclamation Sage against Affinity, Lantern, KCI and other Artifactbased decks. Would you bring RecSage vs. Burn to handle Eidolon?
-Abrupt Decay & Dismember for the mirror and GWx Companydecks also for Merfolk, DnT and Humans. The Dismember could be a third Decay but Dismember can deal some Eldrazi.
-Relic of Progenitus against all GYdecks. Not sure if 2x Scavenging Ooze are better in this spot. Relic draws a card while Ooze is more flexible and is also very good against burn. Maybe I'll swap the Relics.
-Golgari Charm for the mirror, Affinity, Pyromancer and as a sweeper protection. I like this card very much because it's flexible. With a Archdruid on the board you will whipe your opps board then the whole. Sold on this card.
-Chameleon Colossus against all BR decks and also autowin against Shadow.
-Heroic Intervention is one card I will cut for sure. It is to reactive and the chance of drawing a one off is pretty small. I guess this could be another copy of a previous mentioned sideboardcard.
Would like to hear your feedback
If I have a little bit more time and settled for the final list I would to showcase a short SB-Guide. It helps me a lot to do it before an event so I can focus on playing and not thinking to much while sideboarding!
Legacy: Maverick
Pauper: UB Delver
G/B elves have been seeing a lot more play, including recent SCGs. I think both are fine, it is a player preference.
I would cut thoughtseize and duress completely for either 3 IoK or 3 TS. TS nets you every card in their hand, but a lot of control decks have been going cheap with removal and permission. I prefer TS because it allows you to hit a timely t4 supreme verdict and good vs. tron/Titan shift.
I would cut a visionary for one rec sage, I think rec sage is a very MB-able right now against humans, and it allows you to hit azcanta. Which is a very small interaction, but it is a powerful one nonetheless. It frees up a slot in the SB, and I would just play 2 fracturing gust and cut the 2nd rec sage.
I also love golgari charm, it helps vs. board wipes. It is soft removal against pyromancer, and it hits eidolon. I would also be boarding in this card against niche match ups like bogles, faeries, etc.
I would want to bump relic to 3, you want to see it in your opening hand as much as possible in the match ups you want it against. Dredge, hollow one, storm all go very quickly with faithless looting as a powerful engine. It is technically better than scooze in these specific match ups because it is harder to interact with. Scooze is better for jeskai because it can start being big and it is a 2/2 bear, meaning another threat. But relic against them is fine as well to turn off logic knots. Relic is overall the better choice imo for control meta, scooze is better in a creature meta.
I would also like to see dampening sphere for the Tron/titanshift match up. It interrupts their game plan emvery heavily.
I feel the SB would be this heading into a tournament.
SB;
3 thoughtseize
3 relic of progenitus
3 dampening sphere
2 fracturing gust
1 thrun, the last troll (if you have him)/ colossus works as well for jund
1 golgari charm
2 dismember depending on how many spheres you are playing (good interaction vsm hollow one and kills tasigur, etc.) You also want interaction for the humans match up unless you are taking it to aggro town.
Abrupt decay is in an awkward spot as it doesn't do anything for you as most of your SB cards have everything covered. You would have to ask yourself why it is good going into a control format.
Match up wise, I have no idea how to board out as I picked up the deck 2 weeks ago, in terms of boarding in. I have some knowledge thanks to my friends playing modern/legacy elves.
Control:
3 TS
1 thrun
3 relic if it's a snap/delve deck.
Dredge:
3 relic
Tron/amulet Titan:
3 dampening sphere
2-3 TS if you want to cut some LTS for interaction on their hand.
2 dismember for amulet Titan ONLY, it stops their kill combo and allows your to chump your dudes in front of it after the spell resolves.
Jund:
3 relic
2 dismember
1 golgari charm
3 TS
It turns into a grind match up and the golgari charm is basically a removal spell for dark confidant. You want that off the board asap at all times if possible. It's also flexible against Explosives and damnation.
Humans:
2 dismember
1 chameleon colossus or thrun
You basically try to combo as fast as possible keeping the deck intact, the dismember is to interact with mantis rider and champ of the parish.
Hollow one:
3 relic
2 dismember
1 thrun/colossus
Interaction for GY, kill hollow one to stop magma phoenixes, and a large body to block hollow ones and bloodghast.
Storm:
3 relic
3 TS
Dampening sphere isn't very good imo, if they have access to your list. They just board in artifact hate, which you can use psychologically to your favor and just play relics to keep the yard clean and TS to interact with their sculpted hand.
If you want to know about any other match ups or prefer SB changes, lmk.
4 Heritage Druid
3 Elvish Visionary
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Llanowar Elves
3 Nettle Sentinel
4 Elvish Archdruid
3 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4 Dwynen's Elite
4 Shaman of the Pack
2 Steel Leaf Champion
4 Forest
1 Pendelhaven
4 Gilt-Leaf Palace
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Westvale Abbey
4 Blooming Marsh
Instant
4 Collected Company
Sorcery
3 Lead the Stampede
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Reclamation Sage
1 Chameleon Colossus
2 Shapers' Sanctuary
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Throne of the God-Pharaoh
2 Fracturing Gust
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Thoughtseize
Other cards for sideboard consideration that I own:
1 Growing Rites of Itlimoc
1 Gaea's herald
1 Heroic Intervention
1 Thoughtseize
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Reclamation Sage
Definitely in (32):
20 Forest
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Llanowar Elves
Probably in (20):
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Jagged-Scar Archers
4 Mul Daya Channelers
4 Sylvan Advocate
4 Elvish Harbinger
So I need 8 from:
4 Gilt-Leaf Archdruid
4 Overrun
4 Overwhelming Stampede
4 Gaea's Anthem
4 Essence Warden
I also have a whole bunch of green commons, pumps etc. What do you think the best 60 is? Oh I will probably need a 15 card sideboard lol.
The 2x Duress is due budget. I only own 2 copies of Thoughtseize. I thought about IoK but this card isn't able to hit Karn, Ugin, Damnation or Verdict.
Thrun vs. Colossus is interesting! I thought Colossus fits better because it's an "elf". Thrun could be handy versus controldecks.
I'm not fully sold on Damping Sphere. Isn't the drawback too big and aren't we faster then tron/can slow them down with discard?
@johngag
congrats to your result!
I think Tenshirou said a lot that affects you too. I'm not a big fan of the Unclaimed Territory. I would consider 2x green fetchland to have more access on black sources if needed. Also your Sideboard consists of a lot of non-elves which could to akward situations with the Unclaimed Territory.
Legacy: Maverick
Pauper: UB Delver
If you do also have these.
The list can cut one damp sphere and one TS, going to two.
Add in 2 Nissa, voice of zendikar. It is a very strong powerhouse card as well vs. mid-range and control decks. It is also castable by t2 with heritage Mana.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/943752#paper
Not my list, but it should look something like this.
I got wrecked at a local FNM when I played against it and have been interested in building it since then.
Opinions of this version? Feels pretty grindy imo, and can get through clogged-up board states better with throne of the god pharaoh, and coiling oracle is slightly stronger than visionary. Not as good with finding the elf you need at the right moment though with the lack of coco and chord. Don't know if you can cram in some of those in the list.
Would be interesting in hearing some opinions if you tried something similar.
Colonial Druids
They're after one thing
4x Arbor Elf
4x Boreal Druid
4x Elvish Archdruid
4x Elvish Harbinger
4x Elvish Mystic
2x Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4x Gilt-Leaf Archdruid
4x Heritage Druid
4x Llanowar Elves
4x Mul Daya Channelers
56 Cards with 4 Blank spaces... possibly Lead the Stampede or Vines of Vastwood or a mixture of both. Perhaps another 2 forests as you really don't want to miss a drop for the first 3 turns, 4 all the better.
Aim: To steal your opponents land on turn 4. If you draw a G weenie, an archdruid and a glitleaf druid you are almost certain to do it. Without an archdruid or gilt leaf it is still reasonably possible with a harbinger or 'unlikely but possible' with channellers. You are almost always going to do it on turn 5, mind you you can usually just overrun with Ezuri then.
This is of course baring any disruptions, of which they're will be lots.
Essentially the combination of a Gilt-Leaf and an Archdruid means you are drawing each time you play a creature with your mana. When your land is out you can tap the Archdruid who will hopefully give you 5 or 6 mana to keep playing druids and drawing. Once you get 7 druids in play, your opponents land is yours.
The four blank spots I am not sure what to do with... Yes Collected Company is the obvious one but it is also $15 a card so unlikely to be there anytime soon.
My expectation is that perhaps I would win 25-33% of my games on a casual modern night at the local store. I understand I am not rocking collected company or cavern of souls.
An ideal start would be:
t1: forest & weenie
2: forest & archdruid
3: forest & glitleaf & weenie(D) / weenie & glitleaf & weenie(D) giving you either 4 or 5 druids out, with 3-5 Cards. It is easy to get to 7 untapped druids on turn 4 from there.
Without an archdruid in your hand you can play channelers and hope for a top-deck land which sorts you out. Better yet you can play a harbinger to grab the druid, but that means 5 accessable mana with no draw on turn 3. If you have lots of weenies you can get into a position with weenie/harbinger/archdruid/weenie/weenie. If one of those is a heritage druid you can get another 3 cost card out, meaning 6 druids with glit leaf in your land.
Without glitleaf turns 1 and 2 are the same. On turn 3 you can harbinger with 4-5 mana accessible via your arch and weenie. Means you can get 5-6 out but be careful as without glitleaf you aren't drawing. Better to cast 3 cost druids and save the weenie drops for turn 4, in which you really need that draw to get to 7 untapped (or just have a few weenies in your hand)
What do people think? Am I overrating the capacity of this deck? (You can be honest I won't mind)
In short, the Gilt-Leaf Archdruid is a fun win-more card which probably shines more in multi-player or kitchen table Magic but will be too slow and clunky for competitive modern.
I certainly agree with this. But if I did rock up with that build, what percentage of games do you think I would win? Only 10% when the other side gets mana blocked? 25%? What you have basically said to me is that it is "not optimal" which I am sure is the case, but I am wondering how "non competitive" it actually is.
Fair enough. If you have a suboptimal list, one choice is to play a "best efforts" list that tries to fill in the missing gaps with the "next best thing" that's available, in order to try and preserve the focus of the deck. The other choice is to play a similar deck with a different strategy, filling in what's missing from one deck with another package of cards that leads it down a different path.
Gilt-Leaf is a different strategy for sure, so we have to look at what makes it different from the other elf decks. It's slower, and activating the Gilt-Leaf doesn't necessarily win you the game, whereas activating Ezuri almost always puts you close to the finish line, if not over it. Fast decks like burn or affiniti can probably handle a land reset if they have a decent board presence. However it's definitely a hard blow to control. If your meta is control-heavy, the Gilt-Leaf approach might be good. Additionally, having the critical mass of druids means you're playing a lot of cards that are not really strong by themselves, like Boreal Druid. I think for these reasons, your win rate would decline compared to option #1, though I can't put a % number on it.
If you wanted to change your list to run closer to a stock list, I would recommend moving away from Gilt-leaf and trying to the 'best available' budget options. The expensive parts you're missing are really just CoCo and Chord. You can probably keep the Harbinger as a "pseudo-chord" and fill your last slots with Lead the Stampede, instead of CoCo. I'd swap your Boreal Druids with Nettle Sentinels, and the Gilt-Leaf Archdruids for Dwynen's Elite or Elvish Visionary. The Channelers can probably stay if you like them. Their best replacement would be Shaman of the Pack, but then you're dipping into black and have to shore up the manabase - which costs money. If you want some flex slots to play with, the Arbor Elves are redundant with 4x Llanowar/Mystic already.
But before you go changing everything up, first play with what you have and see how it goes. It may end up doing well, despite my doubts. Playtesting will be a better judge than any amount of writing I can do on a forum.