I might try Finale of Devestation into the Chord of Calling Slot in G/W Elves. The ability to get back a devoted Druid or Vizier of Remedies might be worth it to give up instant speed. Plus the haste ability might matter in drawn out board states where the payoffs are gone.
Anyone thought anything about Vivien's Arkbow? Seem's like recursive searches that can turn extra lands or dorks into bigger things. Not sure if there's room, though.
Vivien's Arkbow: I think it's too bad. X has to be 4 at least, for having a decent change hitting some action.
Yes, you can dump your mana surplus into it. But I prefer dumping my mana in Elvish Clancaller.
Soon I will draft War of the Spark. If I get a copy out of it, I will try it for fun. But I think it will be disappointing.
Hi all, I've been following this thread for a while now and thought I would contribute. I recently won a small (~20 people) modern tournament at an anime convention with the Elves list below:
This build is mostly inspired by Jeff Hoogland, but I've previously experimented with many different builds and iterations. This list is very consistent and resilient (at least compared to other Elves lists) while maintaining the signature explosiveness of the archetype.
A few notes on card choices:
4 Elves of Deep Shadow: I think this is a necessary adaptation, as having the full 16 mana dorks really improves the consistency of your first few turns. I love Nettle Sentinel as much as any other Elves player, but its so incredibly important to develop ahead of curve on turns 1-3 that I no longer think it's a playable card. The last time I had Nettles in my deck, I was playing against UW control and was stuck on two lands with one each of Nettle Sentinel and Heritage Druid on the battlefield and a bunch of 3 and 4 drops in my hand. Truly painful.
2 Scavenging Ooze in the main: This is a concession to the rampant graveyard decks in modern such as UR Phoenix and Dredge. I see some other people in this thread have also made this adaptation, but if you haven't yet I strongly encourage you to. The opportunity cost is very low and Scooze can be an absolute lifesaver against the aforementioned decks.
2:2 Split of Lead the Stampede between main and sb: Lead is very powerful, but I also never want to see multiples of it in my opening hand. There are diminishing returns to CoCo and Lead where adding more of them into your deck has the effect of giving you fewer hits from each. Given that I want to be as linear and powerful as possible in game 1, but also want access to the full 8 non-creature card advantage spells in the slower matchups, the 2:2 split feels right to me.
Overgrown Tomb: I recently added this as I wanted another land that could help cast Shaman of the Pack and also make green mana for Scooze activations. I plan on cutting this, Horizon Canopy, Pendelhaven, and 1 Blooming Marsh in favor of 4 Nurturing Peatland once they are available (I have already sold my Horizon Canopy in anticipation). I would also like to strongly recommend against running any land that does not produce G, such as Westvale Abbey or Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, as they have a very adverse effect on the deck's consistency. They make 1-land hands unkeepable and can't even cast 20/42 of the spells in the deck. The times these cards were good for me when I tried them far outweighed the times I wished I had just run another basic Forest instead.
Please feel free to ask me about any other cards included (or excluded) from my list if you would care for my opinion.
I feel Elves are positioned reasonably well in Modern presently and am excited by the additions we might see from Modern Horizons. To any newer players reading this thread and looking to pick up Elves in modern, please be aware that Elves is not a tier 1 deck and will probably not be in the foreseeable future. It is, however, a very fun and powerful deck that can be surprisingly competitive and even take down a tournament once in a while in the right metagame.
Thanks Simon DS!! And congrats on your win.
I'll definitely consider your recommendations. I hate to cut my Nettles. But maybee we should for consistency indeed.
I just want to see if we can add any new elves from MH
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I just want to see if we can add any new elves from MH
If the gaggle of llanowar elves meme card is any indication I'm not very hopeful :(. As funny and flavorful as that card is, it's not competitive.
It is however a:
*joke about the llanowar elves only showing one elf in the original artwork despite being a plural name
*a 3/3 for 3 that creates 3 mana (essentially 3 llanowar elves)
*the art is 3 different arts from various printings of llanowar elves
Sooo yeah bonus points for at least fixing the real problems in magic (name vs art discrepancies from alpha )... I'm all for cards like this, but the joke runs it's course when it's at the expense of my favorite tribe lol.
well the joke isn't all that great. Anyways elves still does it thing.
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Here's my current Elf deck (I call it "The Mother of All Elf Decks" on TappedOut). I was waiting to rebuild it after Modern Horizons came out, hoping that Elves would get some love. Sadly, they did not. I still want to build Elves, but not sure which way to go at the moment. I'm thinking of mainboarding Heroic Intervention as the deck's most serious weakness is to board sweeps—now, of course, it bounces back better than most from that, but it's still a consideration. An early sweep is far more troublesome than a later one, and Heroic would fairly easily negate that. I used to run Lead the Stampede, but ended up going with an experimental build in Genesis Wave. This has won me games (though I have yet to tournament test it) many times: X=7+ is absolutely savage and easy to manage. Hits lands, creatures, and if Akroma's Memorial comes with it (or I have already put it out), everything can go that turn. They can attack with flying, vigilance, trample, protection, etc., then all tap for mana to fuel Ezuri's power.
The idea was to have redundant win conditions. Marwyn, a very underappreciated card, has my favorite Elf art and is also a mana-producing wincon-enabler, and can herself turn into a wincon as she powers up. Of course, Ezuri is the classic method of Elves getting so strong they tear planes in half and beat opponents with each piece. Joraga Warcaller is also another great mana sink, especially with Cavern, and also further enhances Marwyn. I can hard-cast Akroma's Memorial or get it off of a Genesis Wave, and it also turns my Elves into beaters even without EZ E.
Winding Way now merits some consideration, and the sideboard definitely needs help here. I'm not sure what to sideboard. Damping Sphere and the like, I think, but I wanted to sort out the main 60. I've considered Primal Command both for grave hate and for getting its other uses.
Here's my current Elf deck (I call it "The Mother of All Elf Decks" on TappedOut). I was waiting to rebuild it after Modern Horizons came out, hoping that Elves would get some love. Sadly, they did not. I still want to build Elves, but not sure which way to go at the moment. I'm thinking of mainboarding Heroic Intervention as the deck's most serious weakness is to board sweeps—now, of course, it bounces back better than most from that, but it's still a consideration. An early sweep is far more troublesome than a later one, and Heroic would fairly easily negate that. I used to run Lead the Stampede, but ended up going with an experimental build in Genesis Wave. This has won me games (though I have yet to tournament test it) many times: X=7+ is absolutely savage and easy to manage. Hits lands, creatures, and if Akroma's Memorial comes with it (or I have already put it out), everything can go that turn. They can attack with flying, vigilance, trample, protection, etc., then all tap for mana to fuel Ezuri's power.
The idea was to have redundant win conditions. Marwyn, a very underappreciated card, has my favorite Elf art and is also a mana-producing wincon-enabler, and can herself turn into a wincon as she powers up. Of course, Ezuri is the classic method of Elves getting so strong they tear planes in half and beat opponents with each piece. Joraga Warcaller is also another great mana sink, especially with Cavern, and also further enhances Marwyn. I can hard-cast Akroma's Memorial or get it off of a Genesis Wave, and it also turns my Elves into beaters even without EZ E.
Winding Way now merits some consideration, and the sideboard definitely needs help here. I'm not sure what to sideboard. Damping Sphere and the like, I think, but I wanted to sort out the main 60. I've considered Primal Command both for grave hate and for getting its other uses.
wouldn't call in mother of all elves decks but just a different take on the beatdown deck.
sideboard is really dependent on the matchups you run into the most.
"To keep things 100, anything I state is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are a 100% opinion. If you need further clarification take the conversation to a PM. I am not in the business of assuming things. I'm only interested in 1 business and that business serves 2 things, Cold L's and Hot Dub's."
wouldn't call in mother of all elves decks but just a different take on the beatdown deck.
sideboard is really dependent on the matchups you run into the most.
It's meant to be a silly joke, playing off the fact that Marwyn is a mom of sorts, or "midwife to mothers and leader to all." It's not because it's the best Elf deck ever made, though I rather like it. Our meta has a decent variety of stuff, so I'd like a good sideboard that works well against most of the commonly-played top decks. Or at least, is functional against them. Any suggestions?
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Pleasure and pain
Scorpion stings
Pretty things
and the flames of Phoenix wings
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So, with the full Modern Horizons set revealed, I believe there are 3 cards that deserve consideration for inclusion in Modern Elves:
Land
T, Pay 1 life: Add B or G.
1, T, Sacrifice Nurturing Peatland: Draw a card.
This is definitely the most exciting card from this set for our deck. On color Horizon Canopies? Yes please. In my post above I discussed what I plan to cut from my deck to make room for these. I might go down to 3 basic forests and keep the Pendelhaven in after all.
Verdict: Automatic 4-of main deck.
1G
Creature - Ouphe
Activated abilities of artifacts can't be activated.
2/2
I can't wait for the first time I am able to bring one of these into play off a Collected Company. This kind of effect is devastating against Affinity, Hardened Scales, and Tron (turn 2 on the play, at least).
Verdict: 1-3 in the sideboard.
1G
Sorcery
Choose creature or land. Reveal the top four cards of your library. Put all cards of the chosen type revealed this way into your hand and the rest into your graveyard.
This is an interesting alternative to Lead the Stampede. To evaluate it, I ran some hypergeometric calculations using stattrek.com and the results are attached to this post.
I consider a "successful" Lead to be one that puts at least 3 creatures in my hand. In the theoretical test (60 cards in deck, 36 creatures to find), Lead achieves this approximately ~69% of the time, while Winding Way achieves this roughly ~47% of the time. In the practical test, I assumed that we were casting either Lead or Winding Way on turn 3-4 with 28 creatures left in the deck (these numbers make sense in post-sideboard games where we may have brought in more noncreature spells). Lead is drawing us 3 or more cards ~62% of the time in these tests where Winding Way is only drawing us 3 or more cards ~40% of the time.
This all makes sense, as Winding Way is an inherently less powerful card than Lead but is also more economical to cast. So the real question is: how much does the cheaper casting cost matter? And I think the answer is that it doesn't very much. Elves produces so much fast mana that I think the more powerful card draw spell is preferable to the one that's slightly cheaper to cast. With the typical Elves draw giving you access to 3 mana on turn 2, you're usually able to cast either of these on turn 2 (not that you usually want to, except after mulligans). Winding Way does have the play pattern of drawing you cards and then putting another 1-drop into play, but like I said you'd usually prefer to develop your board anyway. Winding Way only putting 2 or less creatures into your hand roughly 60% of the time just isn't good enough in my opinion.
Also worth discussing is the "hidden mode" on Winding Way that lets you look for lands. In the practical test, in which I assume you only have access to 1 land (with 17 left in the deck), Winding Way is successful at drawing at least one land ~82% of the time, which is a good success rate. So Winding Way does have this added versatility, which is nice, but I also expect this mode to go mostly unused by Elves players.
The last part of Winding Way that needs to be mentioned is that it puts cards in your graveyard, as opposed to the bottom of your library. This is largely insignificant, but I think will be a downside more often than an upside (unless your list includes Eternal Witness or some other graveyard recursion). More likely than not, all this will accomplish is buffing your opponent's Tarmogoyf.
Verdict: Worth testing, but likely not good enough to replace Lead the Stampede.
Thanks Simon DS!! And congrats on your win.
I'll definitely consider your recommendations. I hate to cut my Nettles. But maybee we should for consistency indeed.
My pleasure! A fellow Elf player told me he wouldn't cut the Nettles and Visionaries from his deck because he loves the hands where he gets to "go off" and draw 20 cards. My stance is that he probably was going to win those games anyway even without the absurdity the Nettles provide. But I get where he's coming from.
Here's my current Elf deck (I call it "The Mother of All Elf Decks" on TappedOut). I was waiting to rebuild it after Modern Horizons came out, hoping that Elves would get some love. Sadly, they did not. I still want to build Elves, but not sure which way to go at the moment. I'm thinking of mainboarding Heroic Intervention as the deck's most serious weakness is to board sweeps—now, of course, it bounces back better than most from that, but it's still a consideration. An early sweep is far more troublesome than a later one, and Heroic would fairly easily negate that. I used to run Lead the Stampede, but ended up going with an experimental build in Genesis Wave. This has won me games (though I have yet to tournament test it) many times: X=7+ is absolutely savage and easy to manage. Hits lands, creatures, and if Akroma's Memorial comes with it (or I have already put it out), everything can go that turn. They can attack with flying, vigilance, trample, protection, etc., then all tap for mana to fuel Ezuri's power.
The idea was to have redundant win conditions. Marwyn, a very underappreciated card, has my favorite Elf art and is also a mana-producing wincon-enabler, and can herself turn into a wincon as she powers up. Of course, Ezuri is the classic method of Elves getting so strong they tear planes in half and beat opponents with each piece. Joraga Warcaller is also another great mana sink, especially with Cavern, and also further enhances Marwyn. I can hard-cast Akroma's Memorial or get it off of a Genesis Wave, and it also turns my Elves into beaters even without EZ E.
Winding Way now merits some consideration, and the sideboard definitely needs help here. I'm not sure what to sideboard. Damping Sphere and the like, I think, but I wanted to sort out the main 60. I've considered Primal Command both for grave hate and for getting its other uses.
Thanks for sharing! Your build looks super fun and I bet you get to do some degenerate stuff when you go off. My comments are below:
- Genesis Wave seems too mana intensive to me. You need to pay 8 mana to look as deep as Lead the Stampede, and if you have that much mana you could probably cast LtS and then hard cast everything you find off of it as well. That said, Genesis Wave has a much higher ceiling, so that could be the right call if you're trying to go super big.
- You may want to consider cutting some number of Marwyns and/or Ezuris. 4 of each means you will find yourself in situations where you have a lot of dead cards in your hand and/or in your Coco piles.
- Reclamation Sage, in my opinion, definitely belongs in the sideboard, not main. Sage may be maindeckable if you're running tutors like Chord of Calling.
- Sorcerous Spyglass should probably be either Pithing Needle or Phyrexian Revoker (unless you already own the Spyglasses). Paying an extra 1 to peek at your opponents hand isn't going to be worth it in most circumstances, and Revoker can be put into play off of Cocos.
- Heroic Intervention is a trap card in my opinion. It's very difficult for a proactive beatdown deck to hold up 2 mana on every turn. In my experience, I have been more successful laying my cards on the table and forcing my opponent to have the answer THAT TURN or be dead. Intervention also doesn't answer cards like Terminus, Cryptic Command, or Languish, so it's not even the universal answer you want it to be.
- This may be crazy, but have you considered playing Karn, the Great Creator? You could move the Akroma's Memorial to the sideboard and tutor for that or Damping Sphere/Relic of Progenitus/Pithing Needle using Karn's -2. Hitting Karn off of Genesis Wave also seems more doable than one of the Akroma's Memorials.
- This may be crazy, but have you considered playing Karn, the Great Creator? You could move the Akroma's Memorial to the sideboard and tutor for that or Damping Sphere/Relic of Progenitus/Pithing Needle using Karn's -2. Hitting Karn off of Genesis Wave also seems more doable than one of the Akroma's Memorials.
I could buy the Karn idea, seems easier to get to and pulling artifacts from the board gives extra utility.
"To keep things 100, anything I state is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are a 100% opinion. If you need further clarification take the conversation to a PM. I am not in the business of assuming things. I'm only interested in 1 business and that business serves 2 things, Cold L's and Hot Dub's."
@ Fossil Firebird: I like your list. It's different, it's creative and seems very fun to play. Although, I have to agree with Simon DS advices.
From my perspective: Elves always should play Shaman of the Pack. That card is absurd. But in a budget mono green shell, I like Marwyn and Joraga. Maybee cut a Marwyn, because she's legendary. You could consider some Elvish Clancallers.
@ Simon DS: thanks for the Modern Horizon elves overview. I pre-ordered 2 Nurturing Peatland and 2 Collector Ouphe.
- Very convinced about the peatland. It's the Horizon Canopy for GB Elves. I think that card is going over the top later.
- Curious about the Ouphe. It's not an Elf and easy to remove. But let's try it
Don't think the plane's walkers will work out but just curious.
3 of them are potential life gainers (Life goes on, Primal Command, Dwynen, Gilt-leaf Daen). They could be sideboard cards against burn. But I would prefer Essence Warden in that spot. Although I like the flexibility of Primal Command.
16 person FNM, small... I kept SIX 1 land hands (and mulled another one) in my first 3 rounds.
Round 1 vs. RG Breach. I loaned out GB Rock to this friend, but he got scared of the pointy eared bois and went with his own RG Breach instead. In the first game, I kept on 1 land, dork X 2, 2 Elvish Archdruid. I draw a 3rd Archdruid, but don't find a 2nd land, so I can't drop Archdruids like crazy. I lose to a turn 3 Breached Titan because I have no way to win before his next turn, while at 2 life. In the next game, he goes turn 3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance into RR and Firespout. Lol. I have 2 Lords in play and try to hit more with Company. I hit 3 dorks and 3 lands and scoop. Two 1/1s after a board wipe aren't winning anyway, right? 0-2.
Round 2 vs. Jund. I get Junded out with a 1 land keep. I can only play 1 mana dudes that die to a flurry of Bolts, Fatal Pushes, and an Assassin's Trophy on my Blooming Marsh (when there was a land on top randomly, lol). In the next game, I peel a 2nd land and go to work. Honestly I just outdrew him here, even after I drew Shaper's Sanctuary with 3 Bolts in his graveyard. His Liliana, the Last Hope still got me many cards and with Lords, I was able to stay alive and resolve an average Company into drawing Lead the Stampede. Some people have all the luck! The next game is similar, but my draws were just very good. I knew he had Liliana of the Veil in hand and I went mana dork into mana dork and Dwynen's Elite. I get Lords and also have Westvale Abbey. I slow roll to see if he has Damnation and then fetch 2 more Elvish Clancaller EoT into a lethal swing. 2-1.
Round 3 vs. GB Rock. In the first game, I keep on 1 land, but I draw enough gas after he just makes discard and 1 Goyf. In the next game, he draws Damnation in time with Liliana the Last Hope in play and he Junds me out. I can never get something going, especially with Snoozes so big. In the final game, I am the first to Scooze and eat 2 dudes to make it a 4/4. He reveals Fatal Push with Dark Confidant and kills the Scooze, but I draw all the power houses in this game and he falls behind, although he DOES kill an Ezuri. I have another Ezuri in hand and 2 Elvish Archdruid in play. I draw a 3rd land and SLAM Ezuri. He scoops. 2-1.
Round 4 vs. 8 Rack. In the first game, I get Smallpoxed, but draw Ezuri to play land, Dwynen's Elite to go with Heritage Druid, tap for Ezuri. I draw Company after this and he gets double Shaman of the Pack when I Company. Ouch! The next game is similar and I ignore a Liliana the Last Hope and swing with so many dudes. Three 3/3s swing him with him at 3 and Field of Ruin and Marsh Flats up with 2 cards in hand. I literally drew a 4th land that very turn to possibly play 2 Elvish Clancaller, but I didn't want to rub it in and it certainly looked like lethal. Can anyone figure out what set of 2 cards from 8 Rack could have beaten me here? 2-0.
I go 3-1 for 5th place. Had to creep out of the 0-1, (0-2) hole...
Never have I seen more than 1 round that included Liliana, the Last Hope, let alone 2 SD Convention versions in different rounds. Lol.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
RG breach is difficult for elves. g1 you can race them, but g2/3 is too much mass removal. Have an urge to play thoughtseize again for combo and those decks.
Maybe a good call for the london mulligan ruling.
Funny note: last tournament I got the t3 kill against storm and g2 he fizzled his combo and I won that matchup. He has the best score overall the tournament results right now.
What are your thoughts on the nurturing peatland amount? I think i go for 3.
Mainboard pretty hoogland list. I like beast whisperer, but I want to play more aggressive with clancallers
SB:
2 reclamation sage
1 collector ouphe (want not more because i want to keep rec sages against some prison decks in meta)
3 damping sphere
3 dismember (tried out trophies, but dismember is better against phoenix. its liek carddraw for them)
2 thoughtseize (combo)
1 lead the stampede (decided to have 3 in my deck, the canopy land should be compensate the cut of 1 of them)
2 surgical extraction (only gy deck, I dont side in against phoenix)
1 scavenging ooze (third ooze in the deck.. think its fine over other options)
Yesterday I trained against ur phoenix and had beaten a local guy. talked about sideboarding and went with this:
-4 clancaller
-1 ezuri
-2 lead
+3 damping sphere
+3 dismember
+1 ooze
think it may be the best sideboarding plan with this configuration. what do you think?
Oh yes, I know. I have played Titanshift (which admittedly is slightly better against Elves than Breach) for probably 2 years all together. It's one of the easiest matches for the deck.
I was just a bit upset because he saw what I was going to play in Round 1 and then chose to play his own deck after he begged me to play GB Rock. He audibled because he was scared of Elves. Then I had a plan to play around Anger of the Gods, which seemed doable with land, mana dork, double Elvish Archdruid. Then I had a plan in Game 2 to try to Company into a single Lord. But then again, Company is a card that has a lot of variance. I have to be willing to live and die by that card. I guess I could have let him sweep my board, then Company into two 1/1s and try to beat him with that? (or worse, Company into a Lord after my board was wiped)
As for me, regarding Nurturing Peatland, I will replace the 4 Horizon Canopy with 4 Nurturing Peatland. The card is a godsend, considering how many times I have Canopies out, but can't cast Shaman of the Pack.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
RG breach is difficult for elves. g1 you can race them, but g2/3 is too much mass removal. Have an urge to play thoughtseize again for combo and those decks.
Maybe a good call for the london mulligan ruling.
Funny note: last tournament I got the t3 kill against storm and g2 he fizzled his combo and I won that matchup. He has the best score overall the tournament results right now.
What are your thoughts on the nurturing peatland amount? I think i go for 3.
Mainboard pretty hoogland list. I like beast whisperer, but I want to play more aggressive with clancallers
SB:
2 reclamation sage
1 collector ouphe (want not more because i want to keep rec sages against some prison decks in meta)
3 damping sphere
3 dismember (tried out trophies, but dismember is better against phoenix. its liek carddraw for them)
2 thoughtseize (combo)
1 lead the stampede (decided to have 3 in my deck, the canopy land should be compensate the cut of 1 of them)
2 surgical extraction (only gy deck, I dont side in against phoenix)
1 scavenging ooze (third ooze in the deck.. think its fine over other options)
Yesterday I trained against ur phoenix and had beaten a local guy. talked about sideboarding and went with this:
-4 clancaller
-1 ezuri
-2 lead
+3 damping sphere
+3 dismember
+1 ooze
think it may be the best sideboarding plan with this configuration. what do you think?
Post SB, I much prefer Surgical over Ooze against UR Phoenix, especially on the draw. Ooze has been too slow for me. You basically need to jam it on turn 2 and pray they don't have a bolt. Then you need to perpetually hold open mana on their turn.
As for Nurturing Peatland, imo it is clearly the best land now for G/B Elves. Untapped source of G on turn 1. Makes B to cast Shamans. Flood insurance. Why play less than 4?
I'm actually wondering if the 4 Nurturing Peatland makes going up to 19 lands correct. Maybe cutting an Elves of Deep Shadow? Might be too radical, but I think I'll experiment with it.
@Simon DS nurturing peatland is great. I fear taking too much damage when drawing too much. Having some burn, mono red phoenix, 8whack and some other aggro decks in meta. I really understand to maximize on them.
what's your take on sideboarding against phoenix?
Planning to playtest a lot this weekend against my ur phoenix friend who´s won the bye for gp frankfurt in germany.
I also assumed that you had "Burn type decks" in your meta, so I didn't question the 3 Nurturing Peatland. In that case, I personally do believe that 3 is correct. You don't ever really want 2 of those out as your only lands ever. I have felt that pain before, mostly with Devoted Druid Company.
Me personally, I'd side my 2 Dismember and my 2 Surgical Extraction. I personally don't think that Damping Sphere does enough and it further waters down Company, which I hate, hate, hate to take out ever.
I know for sure this is not the best current SB. I personally would make sure every deck I play runs 2-3 Ravenous Trap, as the Hogaak Vine deck is insane. I'm not sure what else I'd do to reconfigure the SB, as I don't play Elves regularly. I usually play the other 2 decks or Humans.
I guess I should clarify that the first 4 cards should not be necessary in a GP meta. My meta has tons of people trying to interact, although occasionally those people "disappear" and it becomes not so much like this.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
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Vivien's Arkbow: I think it's too bad. X has to be 4 at least, for having a decent change hitting some action.
Yes, you can dump your mana surplus into it. But I prefer dumping my mana in Elvish Clancaller.
Soon I will draft War of the Spark. If I get a copy out of it, I will try it for fun. But I think it will be disappointing.
RBWMardu Nahiri, GBElves, UW Emeria, RSkred Red,
GBelcher, BDevotion, GWRNaya landfall, UWBEsper Miracles
4 Dwynen's Elite
4 Elves of Deep Shadow
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Elvish Mystic
2 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Shaman of the Pack
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Elvish Clancaller
4 Collected Company
Lands (18)
4 Blooming Marsh
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Forest
4 Gilt-Leaf Palace
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Pendelhaven
Sorcery (2)
2 Lead the Stampede
3 Damping Sphere
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Reclamation Sage
1 Assassin's Trophy
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Dismember
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Lead the Stampede
This build is mostly inspired by Jeff Hoogland, but I've previously experimented with many different builds and iterations. This list is very consistent and resilient (at least compared to other Elves lists) while maintaining the signature explosiveness of the archetype.
A few notes on card choices:
4 Elves of Deep Shadow: I think this is a necessary adaptation, as having the full 16 mana dorks really improves the consistency of your first few turns. I love Nettle Sentinel as much as any other Elves player, but its so incredibly important to develop ahead of curve on turns 1-3 that I no longer think it's a playable card. The last time I had Nettles in my deck, I was playing against UW control and was stuck on two lands with one each of Nettle Sentinel and Heritage Druid on the battlefield and a bunch of 3 and 4 drops in my hand. Truly painful.
2 Scavenging Ooze in the main: This is a concession to the rampant graveyard decks in modern such as UR Phoenix and Dredge. I see some other people in this thread have also made this adaptation, but if you haven't yet I strongly encourage you to. The opportunity cost is very low and Scooze can be an absolute lifesaver against the aforementioned decks.
2:2 Split of Lead the Stampede between main and sb: Lead is very powerful, but I also never want to see multiples of it in my opening hand. There are diminishing returns to CoCo and Lead where adding more of them into your deck has the effect of giving you fewer hits from each. Given that I want to be as linear and powerful as possible in game 1, but also want access to the full 8 non-creature card advantage spells in the slower matchups, the 2:2 split feels right to me.
Overgrown Tomb: I recently added this as I wanted another land that could help cast Shaman of the Pack and also make green mana for Scooze activations. I plan on cutting this, Horizon Canopy, Pendelhaven, and 1 Blooming Marsh in favor of 4 Nurturing Peatland once they are available (I have already sold my Horizon Canopy in anticipation). I would also like to strongly recommend against running any land that does not produce G, such as Westvale Abbey or Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, as they have a very adverse effect on the deck's consistency. They make 1-land hands unkeepable and can't even cast 20/42 of the spells in the deck. The times these cards were good for me when I tried them far outweighed the times I wished I had just run another basic Forest instead.
Please feel free to ask me about any other cards included (or excluded) from my list if you would care for my opinion.
I feel Elves are positioned reasonably well in Modern presently and am excited by the additions we might see from Modern Horizons. To any newer players reading this thread and looking to pick up Elves in modern, please be aware that Elves is not a tier 1 deck and will probably not be in the foreseeable future. It is, however, a very fun and powerful deck that can be surprisingly competitive and even take down a tournament once in a while in the right metagame.
I'll definitely consider your recommendations. I hate to cut my Nettles. But maybee we should for consistency indeed.
RBWMardu Nahiri, GBElves, UW Emeria, RSkred Red,
GBelcher, BDevotion, GWRNaya landfall, UWBEsper Miracles
-Stay Frosty
If the gaggle of llanowar elves meme card is any indication I'm not very hopeful :(. As funny and flavorful as that card is, it's not competitive.
It is however a:
*joke about the llanowar elves only showing one elf in the original artwork despite being a plural name
*a 3/3 for 3 that creates 3 mana (essentially 3 llanowar elves)
*the art is 3 different arts from various printings of llanowar elves
Sooo yeah bonus points for at least fixing the real problems in magic (name vs art discrepancies from alpha )... I'm all for cards like this, but the joke runs it's course when it's at the expense of my favorite tribe lol.
-Stay Frosty
The idea was to have redundant win conditions. Marwyn, a very underappreciated card, has my favorite Elf art and is also a mana-producing wincon-enabler, and can herself turn into a wincon as she powers up. Of course, Ezuri is the classic method of Elves getting so strong they tear planes in half and beat opponents with each piece. Joraga Warcaller is also another great mana sink, especially with Cavern, and also further enhances Marwyn. I can hard-cast Akroma's Memorial or get it off of a Genesis Wave, and it also turns my Elves into beaters even without EZ E.
Winding Way now merits some consideration, and the sideboard definitely needs help here. I'm not sure what to sideboard. Damping Sphere and the like, I think, but I wanted to sort out the main 60. I've considered Primal Command both for grave hate and for getting its other uses.
I'm also thinking it needs at least one Boseiju, Who Shelters All, to help punch through those critical Waves and CoCos against control.
At any rate, fellow Elves, I would welcome thoughts, suggestions, and green mana!
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Heritage Druid
4 Joraga Warcaller
4 Dwynen's Elite
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Marwyn, the Nurturer
4 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
1 Reclamation Sage
4 Collected Company
Sorceries (3)
3 Genesis Wave
Artifacts (2)
2 Akroma's Memorial
Lands (18)
4 Cavern of Souls
14 Forest
2 Beast Within
4 Heroic Intervention
2 Natural State
2 Reclamation Sage
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Tajuru Preserver
Pleasure and pain
Scorpion stings
Pretty things
and the flames of Phoenix wings
—Michelle Schaper
wouldn't call in mother of all elves decks but just a different take on the beatdown deck.
sideboard is really dependent on the matchups you run into the most.
-Stay Frosty
It's meant to be a silly joke, playing off the fact that Marwyn is a mom of sorts, or "midwife to mothers and leader to all." It's not because it's the best Elf deck ever made, though I rather like it. Our meta has a decent variety of stuff, so I'd like a good sideboard that works well against most of the commonly-played top decks. Or at least, is functional against them. Any suggestions?
Pleasure and pain
Scorpion stings
Pretty things
and the flames of Phoenix wings
—Michelle Schaper
T, Pay 1 life: Add B or G.
1, T, Sacrifice Nurturing Peatland: Draw a card.
This is definitely the most exciting card from this set for our deck. On color Horizon Canopies? Yes please. In my post above I discussed what I plan to cut from my deck to make room for these. I might go down to 3 basic forests and keep the Pendelhaven in after all.
Verdict: Automatic 4-of main deck.
Creature - Ouphe
Activated abilities of artifacts can't be activated.
2/2
I can't wait for the first time I am able to bring one of these into play off a Collected Company. This kind of effect is devastating against Affinity, Hardened Scales, and Tron (turn 2 on the play, at least).
Verdict: 1-3 in the sideboard.
Sorcery
Choose creature or land. Reveal the top four cards of your library. Put all cards of the chosen type revealed this way into your hand and the rest into your graveyard.
This is an interesting alternative to Lead the Stampede. To evaluate it, I ran some hypergeometric calculations using stattrek.com and the results are attached to this post.
I consider a "successful" Lead to be one that puts at least 3 creatures in my hand. In the theoretical test (60 cards in deck, 36 creatures to find), Lead achieves this approximately ~69% of the time, while Winding Way achieves this roughly ~47% of the time. In the practical test, I assumed that we were casting either Lead or Winding Way on turn 3-4 with 28 creatures left in the deck (these numbers make sense in post-sideboard games where we may have brought in more noncreature spells). Lead is drawing us 3 or more cards ~62% of the time in these tests where Winding Way is only drawing us 3 or more cards ~40% of the time.
This all makes sense, as Winding Way is an inherently less powerful card than Lead but is also more economical to cast. So the real question is: how much does the cheaper casting cost matter? And I think the answer is that it doesn't very much. Elves produces so much fast mana that I think the more powerful card draw spell is preferable to the one that's slightly cheaper to cast. With the typical Elves draw giving you access to 3 mana on turn 2, you're usually able to cast either of these on turn 2 (not that you usually want to, except after mulligans). Winding Way does have the play pattern of drawing you cards and then putting another 1-drop into play, but like I said you'd usually prefer to develop your board anyway. Winding Way only putting 2 or less creatures into your hand roughly 60% of the time just isn't good enough in my opinion.
Also worth discussing is the "hidden mode" on Winding Way that lets you look for lands. In the practical test, in which I assume you only have access to 1 land (with 17 left in the deck), Winding Way is successful at drawing at least one land ~82% of the time, which is a good success rate. So Winding Way does have this added versatility, which is nice, but I also expect this mode to go mostly unused by Elves players.
The last part of Winding Way that needs to be mentioned is that it puts cards in your graveyard, as opposed to the bottom of your library. This is largely insignificant, but I think will be a downside more often than an upside (unless your list includes Eternal Witness or some other graveyard recursion). More likely than not, all this will accomplish is buffing your opponent's Tarmogoyf.
Verdict: Worth testing, but likely not good enough to replace Lead the Stampede.
My pleasure! A fellow Elf player told me he wouldn't cut the Nettles and Visionaries from his deck because he loves the hands where he gets to "go off" and draw 20 cards. My stance is that he probably was going to win those games anyway even without the absurdity the Nettles provide. But I get where he's coming from.
Thanks for sharing! Your build looks super fun and I bet you get to do some degenerate stuff when you go off. My comments are below:
- Genesis Wave seems too mana intensive to me. You need to pay 8 mana to look as deep as Lead the Stampede, and if you have that much mana you could probably cast LtS and then hard cast everything you find off of it as well. That said, Genesis Wave has a much higher ceiling, so that could be the right call if you're trying to go super big.
- You may want to consider cutting some number of Marwyns and/or Ezuris. 4 of each means you will find yourself in situations where you have a lot of dead cards in your hand and/or in your Coco piles.
- Reclamation Sage, in my opinion, definitely belongs in the sideboard, not main. Sage may be maindeckable if you're running tutors like Chord of Calling.
- Sorcerous Spyglass should probably be either Pithing Needle or Phyrexian Revoker (unless you already own the Spyglasses). Paying an extra 1 to peek at your opponents hand isn't going to be worth it in most circumstances, and Revoker can be put into play off of Cocos.
- Heroic Intervention is a trap card in my opinion. It's very difficult for a proactive beatdown deck to hold up 2 mana on every turn. In my experience, I have been more successful laying my cards on the table and forcing my opponent to have the answer THAT TURN or be dead. Intervention also doesn't answer cards like Terminus, Cryptic Command, or Languish, so it's not even the universal answer you want it to be.
- This may be crazy, but have you considered playing Karn, the Great Creator? You could move the Akroma's Memorial to the sideboard and tutor for that or Damping Sphere/Relic of Progenitus/Pithing Needle using Karn's -2. Hitting Karn off of Genesis Wave also seems more doable than one of the Akroma's Memorials.
I could buy the Karn idea, seems easier to get to and pulling artifacts from the board gives extra utility.
meanwhile would any of these work as sideboard?
Gaea's Herald
Life Goes On
Tormod's Crypt
Wren's Run Vanquisher
Primal Command
Dwynen, Gilt-Leaf Daen
Planeswalkers:
Nissa Revane
Nissa, Vital force
Don't think the plane's walkers will work out but just curious.
-Stay Frosty
From my perspective: Elves always should play Shaman of the Pack. That card is absurd. But in a budget mono green shell, I like Marwyn and Joraga. Maybee cut a Marwyn, because she's legendary. You could consider some Elvish Clancallers.
@ Simon DS: thanks for the Modern Horizon elves overview. I pre-ordered 2 Nurturing Peatland and 2 Collector Ouphe.
- Very convinced about the peatland. It's the Horizon Canopy for GB Elves. I think that card is going over the top later.
- Curious about the Ouphe. It's not an Elf and easy to remove. But let's try it
RBWMardu Nahiri, GBElves, UW Emeria, RSkred Red,
GBelcher, BDevotion, GWRNaya landfall, UWBEsper Miracles
3 of them are potential life gainers (Life goes on, Primal Command, Dwynen, Gilt-leaf Daen). They could be sideboard cards against burn. But I would prefer Essence Warden in that spot. Although I like the flexibility of Primal Command.
Gaea's Herald is a great sideboard card, for Elf decks without the expensive Cavern of Souls.
RBWMardu Nahiri, GBElves, UW Emeria, RSkred Red,
GBelcher, BDevotion, GWRNaya landfall, UWBEsper Miracles
Round 1 vs. RG Breach. I loaned out GB Rock to this friend, but he got scared of the pointy eared bois and went with his own RG Breach instead. In the first game, I kept on 1 land, dork X 2, 2 Elvish Archdruid. I draw a 3rd Archdruid, but don't find a 2nd land, so I can't drop Archdruids like crazy. I lose to a turn 3 Breached Titan because I have no way to win before his next turn, while at 2 life. In the next game, he goes turn 3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance into RR and Firespout. Lol. I have 2 Lords in play and try to hit more with Company. I hit 3 dorks and 3 lands and scoop. Two 1/1s after a board wipe aren't winning anyway, right? 0-2.
Round 2 vs. Jund. I get Junded out with a 1 land keep. I can only play 1 mana dudes that die to a flurry of Bolts, Fatal Pushes, and an Assassin's Trophy on my Blooming Marsh (when there was a land on top randomly, lol). In the next game, I peel a 2nd land and go to work. Honestly I just outdrew him here, even after I drew Shaper's Sanctuary with 3 Bolts in his graveyard. His Liliana, the Last Hope still got me many cards and with Lords, I was able to stay alive and resolve an average Company into drawing Lead the Stampede. Some people have all the luck! The next game is similar, but my draws were just very good. I knew he had Liliana of the Veil in hand and I went mana dork into mana dork and Dwynen's Elite. I get Lords and also have Westvale Abbey. I slow roll to see if he has Damnation and then fetch 2 more Elvish Clancaller EoT into a lethal swing. 2-1.
Round 3 vs. GB Rock. In the first game, I keep on 1 land, but I draw enough gas after he just makes discard and 1 Goyf. In the next game, he draws Damnation in time with Liliana the Last Hope in play and he Junds me out. I can never get something going, especially with Snoozes so big. In the final game, I am the first to Scooze and eat 2 dudes to make it a 4/4. He reveals Fatal Push with Dark Confidant and kills the Scooze, but I draw all the power houses in this game and he falls behind, although he DOES kill an Ezuri. I have another Ezuri in hand and 2 Elvish Archdruid in play. I draw a 3rd land and SLAM Ezuri. He scoops. 2-1.
Round 4 vs. 8 Rack. In the first game, I get Smallpoxed, but draw Ezuri to play land, Dwynen's Elite to go with Heritage Druid, tap for Ezuri. I draw Company after this and he gets double Shaman of the Pack when I Company. Ouch! The next game is similar and I ignore a Liliana the Last Hope and swing with so many dudes. Three 3/3s swing him with him at 3 and Field of Ruin and Marsh Flats up with 2 cards in hand. I literally drew a 4th land that very turn to possibly play 2 Elvish Clancaller, but I didn't want to rub it in and it certainly looked like lethal. Can anyone figure out what set of 2 cards from 8 Rack could have beaten me here? 2-0.
I go 3-1 for 5th place. Had to creep out of the 0-1, (0-2) hole...
Never have I seen more than 1 round that included Liliana, the Last Hope, let alone 2 SD Convention versions in different rounds. Lol.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)RG breach is difficult for elves. g1 you can race them, but g2/3 is too much mass removal. Have an urge to play thoughtseize again for combo and those decks.
Maybe a good call for the london mulligan ruling.
Funny note: last tournament I got the t3 kill against storm and g2 he fizzled his combo and I won that matchup. He has the best score overall the tournament results right now.
What are your thoughts on the nurturing peatland amount? I think i go for 3.
Mainboard pretty hoogland list. I like beast whisperer, but I want to play more aggressive with clancallers
SB:
2 reclamation sage
1 collector ouphe (want not more because i want to keep rec sages against some prison decks in meta)
3 damping sphere
3 dismember (tried out trophies, but dismember is better against phoenix. its liek carddraw for them)
2 thoughtseize (combo)
1 lead the stampede (decided to have 3 in my deck, the canopy land should be compensate the cut of 1 of them)
2 surgical extraction (only gy deck, I dont side in against phoenix)
1 scavenging ooze (third ooze in the deck.. think its fine over other options)
Yesterday I trained against ur phoenix and had beaten a local guy. talked about sideboarding and went with this:
-4 clancaller
-1 ezuri
-2 lead
+3 damping sphere
+3 dismember
+1 ooze
think it may be the best sideboarding plan with this configuration. what do you think?
I was just a bit upset because he saw what I was going to play in Round 1 and then chose to play his own deck after he begged me to play GB Rock. He audibled because he was scared of Elves. Then I had a plan to play around Anger of the Gods, which seemed doable with land, mana dork, double Elvish Archdruid. Then I had a plan in Game 2 to try to Company into a single Lord. But then again, Company is a card that has a lot of variance. I have to be willing to live and die by that card. I guess I could have let him sweep my board, then Company into two 1/1s and try to beat him with that? (or worse, Company into a Lord after my board was wiped)
As for me, regarding Nurturing Peatland, I will replace the 4 Horizon Canopy with 4 Nurturing Peatland. The card is a godsend, considering how many times I have Canopies out, but can't cast Shaman of the Pack.
My land base, for what it's worth.
4 Horizon Canopy
4 Gilt-Leaf Palace
4 Blooming Marsh
1 Pendelhaven
1 Westvale Abbey
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Post SB, I much prefer Surgical over Ooze against UR Phoenix, especially on the draw. Ooze has been too slow for me. You basically need to jam it on turn 2 and pray they don't have a bolt. Then you need to perpetually hold open mana on their turn.
As for Nurturing Peatland, imo it is clearly the best land now for G/B Elves. Untapped source of G on turn 1. Makes B to cast Shamans. Flood insurance. Why play less than 4?
I'm actually wondering if the 4 Nurturing Peatland makes going up to 19 lands correct. Maybe cutting an Elves of Deep Shadow? Might be too radical, but I think I'll experiment with it.
what's your take on sideboarding against phoenix?
Planning to playtest a lot this weekend against my ur phoenix friend who´s won the bye for gp frankfurt in germany.
Me personally, I'd side my 2 Dismember and my 2 Surgical Extraction. I personally don't think that Damping Sphere does enough and it further waters down Company, which I hate, hate, hate to take out ever.
My current SB is
2 Heroic Intervention
1 Fracturing Gust
2 Dismember
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Essence Warden
2 Reclamation Sage
2 Damping Sphere
I know for sure this is not the best current SB. I personally would make sure every deck I play runs 2-3 Ravenous Trap, as the Hogaak Vine deck is insane. I'm not sure what else I'd do to reconfigure the SB, as I don't play Elves regularly. I usually play the other 2 decks or Humans.
I guess I should clarify that the first 4 cards should not be necessary in a GP meta. My meta has tons of people trying to interact, although occasionally those people "disappear" and it becomes not so much like this.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)