Im not sure if I need graveyard hate. Im also wondering about the use of Westvale Abbey, it seems to be wasteful.
westvale abbey is a rattlesnake card or board wipe insurance. Typically in the 19th land slot which used to be held primarily by nykthos. If you're losing all your dudes to a wrath you may as well get a 9/7 guy out of the deal. Plenty of decks have outs, but they can't afford to just bank those outs for a 1 of in your list. If he gets pathed if I flip him and sac my team in response to a board wipe I'm mana neutral in most cases and lose my team either way. If they don't have the path welcome to my 18 point life swing and 2 turn clock in the air. Modern do snt have much that can jump in front of him.
8 fastlands is something I haven't tested myself, but there will be a non-zero amount of games where you can't chord for x=1 or coco on time after a board wipe if you need to natural draw into an untapped land for your 4th mana. It seems like a corner case but an 18 land mana base is running a 44% tapped lands post land 3. Attrition matches WILL hit this point and this could be what determines you crawling back from a bevy of removal or not.
This gives me 18 untapped sources of green T1, utility in westvale to go wide or tall, utility in pendelhaven to avoid electrolyze blow outs, cavern to make my junk uncounterable. I really just run the risk of gilt-leaf palace coming in tapped if I don't have an elf in hand if it's my 4th land. So that's 4/19 lands for me or 21% of my mana base as opposed to 8/18 for you or 44%.
A good budget replacement is llanowar wastes. They are super cheap right now I think compared to other items in the deck.
Thank you for the in depth reply! I don't have the funds yet for Gilt-Leaf/Cavern of souls, and definitely holding out for a reprint. I'll keep testing with this base and with llanowar wastes and see how my games go. How have you felt about dropping nykthos?
I don't miss nykthos, as said earlier it's your 5th archdruid. It serves a different purpose than westvale. I look at westvale like a plan D. If things really suck it's a last ditch effort to steal a game. He has haste too. So you can really be cheesy and coco at the end of someone's turn to get two elites, then drop westvale and bash for a ton in the air if you need to. Yeah it's magical Christmas land, but the haste can be relevant.
Im not sure if I need graveyard hate. Im also wondering about the use of Westvale Abbey, it seems to be wasteful.
westvale abbey is a rattlesnake card or board wipe insurance. Typically in the 19th land slot which used to be held primarily by nykthos. If you're losing all your dudes to a wrath you may as well get a 9/7 guy out of the deal. Plenty of decks have outs, but they can't afford to just bank those outs for a 1 of in your list. If he gets pathed if I flip him and sac my team in response to a board wipe I'm mana neutral in most cases and lose my team either way. If they don't have the path welcome to my 18 point life swing and 2 turn clock in the air. Modern do snt have much that can jump in front of him.
8 fastlands is something I haven't tested myself, but there will be a non-zero amount of games where you can't chord for x=1 or coco on time after a board wipe if you need to natural draw into an untapped land for your 4th mana. It seems like a corner case but an 18 land mana base is running a 44% tapped lands post land 3. Attrition matches WILL hit this point and this could be what determines you crawling back from a bevy of removal or not.
This gives me 18 untapped sources of green T1, utility in westvale to go wide or tall, utility in pendelhaven to avoid electrolyze blow outs, cavern to make my junk uncounterable. I really just run the risk of gilt-leaf palace coming in tapped if I don't have an elf in hand if it's my 4th land. So that's 4/19 lands for me or 21% of my mana base as opposed to 8/18 for you or 44%.
A good budget replacement is llanowar wastes. They are super cheap right now I think compared to other items in the deck.
Thank you for the in depth reply! I don't have the funds yet for Gilt-Leaf/Cavern of souls, and definitely holding out for a reprint. I'll keep testing with this base and with llanowar wastes and see how my games go. How have you felt about dropping nykthos?
I don't miss nykthos, as said earlier it's your 5th archdruid. It serves a different purpose than westvale. I look at westvale like a plan D. If things really suck it's a last ditch effort to steal a game. He has haste too. So you can really be cheesy and coco at the end of someone's turn to get two elites, then drop westvale and bash for a ton in the air if you need to. Yeah it's magical Christmas land, but the haste can be relevant.
I like magical Christmas land sometimes. Makes me want to go mono green with Hoof and Westvale for maximum lols.
I think Mimic would fit nicely in a shell with Rishkar, Peema Renegade. This way Rishkar enters the battlefield with 2 counters (1 from himself, 1 from Mimic) which puts him out of bolt range. It also turns any other creature wtih a counter on it into a mana producer. There's a couple +1/+1 counter matters elves in AER such as Narnam Renegade and Greenwheel Liberator but I'm not sure how reliably can we turn on revolt.
Mimic is also a replacement effect. So if you coco into one and another elf, you don't get the counters. (The dywnen's elite token is an exception). I agree rishkar does make it more attractive, but eve a 2/2 heritage still gets outclassed so quickly in modern.
While CoCo is an absolute powerhouse, I don't think I'd pick it for the shell I was mentioning. Was thinking about going Lead/Chord or Lead/Evolution with Aether Vial. It's slower I guess but going the route of Merfolk with Vial allowing combat tricks EoT and Lead making sure that your hand is as full as it can be. Just brainstorming a bit, don't have a list or anything at the moment.
I didn't expect Affinity and Grixis Delver that day.
Round 1: Abzan Aggro (2-1)
Game 1 (L): Mulligan on 5 / Opponent mulligan on 6. T2 Anafenza, the Foremost into T3 Siege Rhino into T4 Wilt-Leaf Liege was too much to handle Sideboard: -1 Nettle Sentinel, -3 Elvish Visionary, +1 Essence Warden, +1 Thragtusk, +1 Eternal Witness, +1 Scavenging Ooze
Game 2 (W): Mulligan on 5 / Opponent kept 7. I held a hand with Llanowar Elves, 3 Lands and a Lead the Stampede. Scry Ezuri on Top. Ezuri stalled to board long enough for me to establish a presence and use Overrun for lethal. Elvish Archdruid protected my board from Zealous Persecution.
Game 3 (W): Ezuri stalled the board again. CoCo into Archdruid + Shaman of the Pack with additional two SotP in hand won me the game.
Round 2: Affinity (2-0)
Opponent was inexperienced with the deck.
Game 1 (W): I was able to storm into some Elves and hit Ezuri and Archdruid from CoCo Sideboard: -3 Lead the Stampede, -1 Nettle Sentinel, -3 Elvish Visionary, +2 Chord of Calling, +2 Reclamation Sage, +1 Phyrexian Revoker, +1 Kataki, War's Wage, +1 Selfless Spirit
Game 2 (W): Mulligan on 6 / Opponent kept 7. T3 Chord for Kataki, War's Wage wiped the board and won me the game.
Round 3: Bant Eldrazi (2-1)
Game 1 (L): Mulligan on 5 / Opponent mulligan on 6. I kept a hand with three 1-drops and two lands and hoped for a payoff. I didn't feel like I could go down to 4. He had the Engineered Explosives and wiped my board. Sideboard: - 1 Lead the Stampede, -1 Elvish Visionary, -2 Nettle Sentinel, +1 Chord of Calling, +1 Phyrexian Revoker, +1 Thragtusk, +1 Reclamation Sage
Game 2 (W): Mulligan on 5 / Opponent kept 7. Scry Phyrexian Revoker on top. Opponent found Engineered Explosives with T1 Ancient Stirrings. I played Revoker on T2. Opponent flooded a bit. The game ended with EE = 1, EE = 2 and a Grafdigger's cage on the board. I had enough board presence to push for damage thanks to buffed Elves via Elvish Archdruid.
Game 3 (W): I had a pretty good board and played two Shaman of the Pack. Opponent couldn't do anything
Round 4: Grixis Delver (1-2)
Game 1 (W): Mulligan on 6 / Opponent kept 7. I was able to storm into some Elves and finish him with two CoCos and another Shaman of the Pack. Sideboard: -4 Nettle Sentinel, -1 Dwynen's Elite, -1 Heritage Druid, +1 Spellskite, +1 Scavenging Ooze, +1 Eternal Witness, +1 Selfless Spirit, +1 Chameleon Colossus, +1 Thragtusk
Game 2 (L): Izzet Staticaster, Lightning Bolt and Dispel kept me at bay. T1 and T2 Delver which both flipped T3 finshed the game quickly.
Game 3 (L): Mulligan on 5 / Opponent mulligan on 6. T1/T2 Delver with follow-up blind flip again. He had all the 1-Mana answers again. He outplayed me hard though. Kudos to him.
Notes:
Other decks on that day were: BUG Midrange, Jund, Junk, Skred, Dredge, Elves.
I finished on 3rd and didn't get anything. The Bant Eldrazi Player I beat in round three got 1st thanks to his Bye in Round 1 which pushed his opponent-score through the roof. Grixis Delver finished 2nd. This is pretty unfortunate as I was the only one in the room after round three who had a 3-0 score. But I didn't get anything in the end. Pity...
I had to mulligan a lot during the day. Five mulligans on five and two on six. I was able to win two of those games where I had to go to five.I didn't have the right combination of cards most of the time. 2-lander with Dwynen's Elite as the only 2-drop and more expensive stuff, 1 lander with no Mana-Dork, 3-lander with three Mana-Dorks and an Elite...Lead the Stampede however can get you back into the game in no time!
I'm not sure if my sideboarding against Grixis Delver was correct. His clock was quite fast and I pondered after my loss if my slower approach was the right choice. I'm eager to hear your oppinions on my choices.
...and I finally need to get those Cavern of Soul...
Nettle Sentinel was the right choice for the day. I pondered the day before to cut Sentinels and add Essence Warden.
The new Deathtouch Elf will be tested next. He trades well against midrange, Abzan Aggro or Eldrazi. I don't know, what the the right amount of Fetchland is, though.
I think I was prepared very well but felt short in the end. I'm open to feedback on my sideboarding and my deck-setup.
S for grixis delver, I have 3 abrupt decay in my sb, they can't counter it and it deals with them. Dunno if you'd be willing to change your sb a bit to make space for it or dismember could be another option.
Cheers!
Edit: is cavern of souls that good? I rarely get my elves countered, maybe I just play against newbs?
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11:15, restate my assumptions: 1. Mathematics is the language of nature. 2. Everything around us can be represented and understood through numbers. 3. If you graph these numbers, patterns emerge. Therefore: There are patterns everywhere in nature. - Maximillian Cohen.
Edit: is cavern of souls that good? I rarely get my elves countered, maybe I just play against newbs?
Lets just say that Cavern isn't essential. As you can see from the other present decks, it would have done nothing against 95% of the field. The spells getting countered are usually CoCo, Lead or Chord as these are high impact cards. Cavern doesn't protect non-creature spells and I won't start to run Boseiju, Who Shelters All. But occasionally I run into some Grixis Decks that still counter my creatures. E.g. the Grixis Delver player is actually a pretty good tempo player and he knows how to keep the momentum going. And getting an Archdruid/Shaman of the Pack Remanded or countered is taxing. In cornercase scenarios like this Cavern is pretty good as it has no cost. It costs less life than Fetch/Shock, it taps for all the colours we need for our Elves and can even help to cast Silver Bullets from the Sideboard. And Blood Moon shouldn't be the problem.
I just don't see any downsides to not run Cavern. That's why I want to have the card but I don't have the budget for a 50+ Euros card. BUT...you don't NEED Cavern! I just think you might get some minor percentage points in the right matchups.
For sideboarding: The thing with Dismember and Abrupt Decay is that I would consider these cards in a straight GB build. I feel like a will lose to much life in an Abzan build casting them. But maybe I have to try it out. Thanks for the recommendation.
2)Against Anger decks did you try to race or play slowly?
3)Silver Bullets wansnt enough to handle Angers decks...terrible matchup, Im with a big headache to be honest after this FNM =(
Any advices ???
1) I don't really find control a huge issue. Usually you can beat them before they get annoying. I run two Cavern of Souls and that seems to help some. Control really isn't that big right now. Maybe not the case in your meta...
2) Anger of the Gods isn't favorable but, not unbeatable. Selfless sport is obviously good as well as Burrenten Forge-Tender. Also lead the Stampede is good at rebuilding your army to overcome an Anger of the Gods. Pay No Heed is also good against that and it works against Valakut. But the main thing is you have to be smart with your plays. On the play: If you don't have a real explosive hand, you may want to play it slower. If you can get in a bunch of damage before an Anger of the Gods hit, it may be worth while to get in the damage and then drop a Shaman second main. If you have enough creatures and mana you can also flip Westvale Abbey in response to give you a pretty huge creature that is tough to deal with.
3) If you find your meta is filled with mass removal you may want to consider changing your sideboard some to reflect that.
Biggest difference between the two decks is that Merfolk has their lords on the 2CMC slot whereas Elves have them on 3CMC. Which means you'd rely on Vial to bring in 2CMC threats like Mimic and Greenwheel Liberator (though the problem of enabling revolt remains). Would need to be tested out, but overall seems too clunky compared to CoCo Elves lists. Then again we had months of playtesting to streamline the current iteration of the decks
Finished the deck this week and went to my first FNM today. Sad to say I was totally destroyed =(
Lost round 1 by Lantern Control (I did not see a SINGLE sideboard card game 2, and game 1 he did the combo)
Win round 2 against Naya Zoo (I played very well)
Lost round 3 Jeskai Control (Anger, Snapecaster > Anger)...started to get upset here
Win Round 4 BYE
Lost round 5 Valakut (Anger, Valakuts, 3 damage...game 2 I empty my hand turn 2 and he did MANA Simian Spirit Simian Spirit and Anger turn 2).
Since Im very new to elves I would like to ask:
1)Controls/mass removals are our terrible matchs?
2)Against Anger decks did you try to race or play slowly?
3)Silver Bullets wansnt enough to handle Angers decks...terrible matchup, Im with a big headache to be honest after this FNM =(
Any advices ???
Don't let the losses discourage you. You faced a couple quite hard matchups for Elves.
Lantern Control is race against the clock before they establish their lock. Shaman of the Pack helps here as it goes under the bridge, but generally they won't let you draw one. So you need a CoCo or Chord in hand to fetch one when needed.
Jeskai and Valakut rely heavily on red damage based spells. They're tricky to play against because obviously you don't want to overextend to minimize the fallout from Anger of the Gods. On the other hand you need a board presence to deal with Nahiri, the Harbinger once it hits or be ready to kill before Scapeshift hits. Mark of Asylum is great against these matchups (especially Jeskai) since they'll need sideboard answers to deal with it while completely blanking their removal.
Against Anger decks just play a creature or two and keep swinging with them. Chipping away at their life for 1-2 points per turn along with their fetchland use can bring them down to 10 quite fast. This way they're forced to use Anger on just 1-2 creatures while you have your hand stocked up to re-establish board presence afterwards.
11:15, restate my assumptions: 1. Mathematics is the language of nature. 2. Everything around us can be represented and understood through numbers. 3. If you graph these numbers, patterns emerge. Therefore: There are patterns everywhere in nature. - Maximillian Cohen.
Noticeable change of pace in our meta this Monday. The fastest decks present this week were two Elves followed by Tron Eldrazi. Rest was either midrange or control. Went 3-1, only losing to Tron Eldrazi player who had nut draws against me.
Won 2-0 against Jeskai Nahiri
Won 2-0 against Abzan Elves
Lost 0-2 against Tron Eldrazi
Won 2-1 against GW Tron
Should've expected the absence of Infect and removed that Melira from the sideboard. Same goes for Kataki.
Has anyone else faced Tron Eldrazi? What are your suggestions for the matchup?
If they hit us with an early Chalice of the Void on 1, it's hard without Caverns. With meta shifting slightly more towards slower decks and control, Caverns might be a good call especially against Grixis, Jeskai and any decks running Chalice such as Tron Eldrazi. The also pack other spot removal such as Warping Wail and/or Gut Shot/Dismember to deal with our dorks before deploying their Thought-Knot Seers and Reality Smashers. Another problematic card that usually means game over is All is Dust. Chording for Tajuru Preserver can prevent a blowout. Other than that, I'm not sure how else to combat them.
GW Tron is considerably less threatening than RG version purely because they don't have access to Pyroclasm, Firespout or Lightning Bolt. Only matchup where I saw Prowess of the Fair. 1st copy got exiled by Ugin while 2nd one helped me rebuild after Oblivion Stone activation in game 2. Unfortunately 3rd Stone was just too much.
I am curious about Heroic Intervention. Seems like a great SB card for mono green/GB builds.
I think I'll buy a playset and test it out next time
Thoughts about it?
Seems like a good choice for monogreen and non-toolbox builds. Toolbox versions probably prefer Chord + Selfless Spirit package as it provides more flexibility.
I've been testing a singleton Metallic Mimic with fascinating results. As a chord target, it makes X = 2 in the early game attractive and you can set up a strong board that isn't dependant on a lord. For example, opponent's EOT with 2 lands and 2 dorks in play, chord for 2 = Mimic. Turn 3 untap, play Elite for 5 power, and a 2/2 heritage and finish with a 3/3 Ezuri. Will be continuing testing with this.
I've also replaced a Lead with Lifecrafter's bestiary, but haven't cast it enough times to form a solid opinion on it. It's alright when you have the mana, and OK in attrition, but I can't say if Lead's still the better card.
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@Iceraiiin, I just picked up Elves recently. Why do you only run one Chord? I'm curious, not bashing or anything. The *****ty list I threw together ran four; I figured being able to play things through Chalice and having a reliable toolbox card at all times was useful.
@Iceraiiin, I just picked up Elves recently. Why do you only run one Chord? I'm curious, not bashing or anything. The *****ty list I threw together ran four; I figured being able to play things through Chalice and having a reliable toolbox card at all times was useful.
I'm obviously not iceraiin but I've just been lurking in the thread for a while now It looks like iceraiin is playing an Abzan list similar to Ryan Saxe's Abzan Elves list (there's a link to his list and SCG article in the Primer). From the article Ryan says:
Other than the addition of Shaman of the Pack and the change in manabase, I altered one more thing. I favor Lead the Stampede over Chord of Calling in the maindeck. The fact of the matter is, when adding Shaman of the Pack, we no longer can play cards like Spellskite and Reclamation Sage in the main. This turns Chord of Calling into a split card between Fireball (Shaman of the Pack) and Overrun (Ezuri, Renegade Leader). It still has its merits, but I rarely want to draw more than one Chord of Calling, and hence replaced three copies with Lead the Stampede.
Lead the Stampede fixes one of the major downfalls of Elves: mulliganing. Prior to the addition of Lead the Stampede, the deck required such a mass of Elves that mulliganing was detrimental to the plan. Now we have a card that often turns a four-card hand into a seven-card hand. This is huge. Modern is such a fast-paced format that having the ability to mulligan aggressively into a faster hand is important.
From what I've seemed to gather, Ryan's gameplan is to hedge his bets in Game 1 by running a more-or-less 'safe' build, then - once we know what deck we're up against - sideboarding in all the 'toolbox' cards and extra Chords to have a stronger Game 2 (and Game 3 if necessary)
I've been testing a few different builds of Elves on my own and I think an important thing I've found is that there's not necessarily one decklist that is "right" or "wrong" but they can each be tailored to your own playstyle. The 4 Lead version can just as easily kill on turn 4 than the 4 Chord version. Same with G/B vs. G/W. Sure, they each have their own strengths and weaknesses but they all essentially run the same 'shell'. Just find the one that works best for you
I've been testing a singleton Metallic Mimic with fascinating results. As a chord target, it makes X = 2 in the early game attractive and you can set up a strong board that isn't dependant on a lord. For example, opponent's EOT with 2 lands and 2 dorks in play, chord for 2 = Mimic. Turn 3 untap, play Elite for 5 power, and a 2/2 heritage and finish with a 3/3 Ezuri. Will be continuing testing with this.
First, you can't cast a Chord of Calling on your turn2 for X=2. Two lands + dork means X=0. So earliest point is on your turn 3 and your described scenario of casting stuff on turn 4, means attacking with that board on turn 5. That's just too slow for modern.
Second, why would you ever want to go that path with your hand? Just go turn1 dork, turn2 Heritage, Elite, tap cast Ezuri, keep Chord. If you untap turn3 with that board, you just win turn4 and even got your Chord for Selfless Spirit available if your opponent has massremoval. Or just pump your team with Ezuri in response to Anger of the Gods. Or get that Spellskite against Infect.
I'm not trying to convince you, that Metallic Mimic is bad, but it's clearly not a card that makes your Chord of Callings better in any way. It's a card that wants you to go wide with your board, so synergizes with Lead the Stampede, CoCo, Elvish Visionary and Dwynen's Elite, and there i see the problem: what do you cut for the Mimics? I think in most cases, the alternatives are better.
yea i made a mistake with my scenario. my point is just that sometimes when you can chord for 2, it sets up a new line of possibilities. Instead of hinging everything on an ezuri, the stakes are a lot lower and the apples are spread across more baskets.
I identified that as the problem too: what to replace. I dropped 1 visionary for the mimic.
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I proxied Coco Elves, playtested it a while and love how it plays. Now I'm thinking about buying into it as my first "real" non-budget deck. My hesitation is, that I barely see good results on a competitive level and I don't really understand why? Does Elves have any extreme horror match-ups? I don't need to play a Tier 1 deck, but I think I need something at solid tier 2 power level to compete in long terms, because I want to play the deck for a looong time and stay always viable. I really appreciate your help. I want to play a deck I love but I also like winning. The other deck I like would be GW Hatebears. Please help me to make the right decision
Thank you
Our bad match ups are the people who pack wipes mainboard such as anger of the gods, o stone and pyroclasms. The winning chance comes where you make the correct decision to go wide and race, or go slow and bait the wipe. Depending on that the opponent draws, it may go either way.
Slightly unfavored are your removal-heavy attrition or midrange decks, who will start trading 1 for 1 at first and then outvalue you with recursion or card draw.
We are favored against the majority of opposing aggro save affinity (altho we can do great postboard), and draw-go decks that don't pack too many wipes, or expensive wipes (such as verdict). We're fast enough to go under these guys. We're also favored against non-interactive so long as we have chord targets that kill them: Eidolon of Rhetoric vs Storm/Living End/Restore Balance, Melira vs Infect, and so on.
Between hatebears and elves, you need to know that hatebears have a more skewed match up rate. They do fantastic against control decks but flounder against creature decks like elves, merfolk, eldrazi, or basically any deck that has a majority of creature spells and doesn't fetch. Hatebears are great when there are alot of tricolor control and attrition decks like jund, grixis, jeskai and so on. Elves on the other hand are more all-rounded. We have the good and bad like what I mentioned upstairs, but it isn't so swingy. I played Eldrazi against hatebears and they were basically playing grizzly bears against my reality smashers and thought-knots, it was a massacre. Elves on the other hand is able to even the odds against a wide swath of decks postboard with chords, though it may not enjoy ridiculous walk overs (like hatebears vs grixis).
If I had money to spend on just the 1 deck, I'd make it elves.
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I don't miss nykthos, as said earlier it's your 5th archdruid. It serves a different purpose than westvale. I look at westvale like a plan D. If things really suck it's a last ditch effort to steal a game. He has haste too. So you can really be cheesy and coco at the end of someone's turn to get two elites, then drop westvale and bash for a ton in the air if you need to. Yeah it's magical Christmas land, but the haste can be relevant.
I like magical Christmas land sometimes. Makes me want to go mono green with Hoof and Westvale for maximum lols.
While CoCo is an absolute powerhouse, I don't think I'd pick it for the shell I was mentioning. Was thinking about going Lead/Chord or Lead/Evolution with Aether Vial. It's slower I guess but going the route of Merfolk with Vial allowing combat tricks EoT and Lead making sure that your hand is as full as it can be. Just brainstorming a bit, don't have a list or anything at the moment.
WBG Elves WBG
Cheeri0s
EDH:
RG Omnath, Locus of Rage RG || GWUB Atraxa, Praetors' Voice GWUB
R Zo-Zu the Punisher R || WU Brago, King Eternal WU
UB Gisa and Geralf UB || BGW Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW
This is quite interesting. However, I think it lacks one thing that makes Merfolk strong, Spreading Seas, Sea's Claim and islandwalk lords.
But it probably doesn't have enough of the redundancy of "Merfolk" for this kind of plan.
even though I didn't get any response on my recent post I will still post my tournament report. Have fun!
Modern Win-A-Box (Modern)
Germany
11 entries
4 Rounds
Deck: Abzan Elves
Result: 3-1 (#3)
4 Gilt-Leaf Palace
3 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Temple Garden
6 Forest
1 Westvale Abbey
Creatures (34):
4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Dwynen's Elite
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Shaman of the Pack
3 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Spells (8):
4 Collected Company
3 Lead the Stampede
1 Chord of Calling
1 Essence Warden
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Reclamation Sage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Thragtusk
2 Chord of Calling
I didn't expect Affinity and Grixis Delver that day.
Round 1: Abzan Aggro (2-1)
Game 1 (L): Mulligan on 5 / Opponent mulligan on 6. T2 Anafenza, the Foremost into T3 Siege Rhino into T4 Wilt-Leaf Liege was too much to handle
Sideboard: -1 Nettle Sentinel, -3 Elvish Visionary, +1 Essence Warden, +1 Thragtusk, +1 Eternal Witness, +1 Scavenging Ooze
Game 2 (W): Mulligan on 5 / Opponent kept 7. I held a hand with Llanowar Elves, 3 Lands and a Lead the Stampede. Scry Ezuri on Top. Ezuri stalled to board long enough for me to establish a presence and use Overrun for lethal. Elvish Archdruid protected my board from Zealous Persecution.
Game 3 (W): Ezuri stalled the board again. CoCo into Archdruid + Shaman of the Pack with additional two SotP in hand won me the game.
Round 2: Affinity (2-0)
Opponent was inexperienced with the deck.
Game 1 (W): I was able to storm into some Elves and hit Ezuri and Archdruid from CoCo
Sideboard: -3 Lead the Stampede, -1 Nettle Sentinel, -3 Elvish Visionary, +2 Chord of Calling, +2 Reclamation Sage, +1 Phyrexian Revoker, +1 Kataki, War's Wage, +1 Selfless Spirit
Game 2 (W): Mulligan on 6 / Opponent kept 7. T3 Chord for Kataki, War's Wage wiped the board and won me the game.
Round 3: Bant Eldrazi (2-1)
Game 1 (L): Mulligan on 5 / Opponent mulligan on 6. I kept a hand with three 1-drops and two lands and hoped for a payoff. I didn't feel like I could go down to 4. He had the Engineered Explosives and wiped my board.
Sideboard: - 1 Lead the Stampede, -1 Elvish Visionary, -2 Nettle Sentinel, +1 Chord of Calling, +1 Phyrexian Revoker, +1 Thragtusk, +1 Reclamation Sage
Game 2 (W): Mulligan on 5 / Opponent kept 7. Scry Phyrexian Revoker on top. Opponent found Engineered Explosives with T1 Ancient Stirrings. I played Revoker on T2. Opponent flooded a bit. The game ended with EE = 1, EE = 2 and a Grafdigger's cage on the board. I had enough board presence to push for damage thanks to buffed Elves via Elvish Archdruid.
Game 3 (W): I had a pretty good board and played two Shaman of the Pack. Opponent couldn't do anything
Round 4: Grixis Delver (1-2)
Game 1 (W): Mulligan on 6 / Opponent kept 7. I was able to storm into some Elves and finish him with two CoCos and another Shaman of the Pack.
Sideboard: -4 Nettle Sentinel, -1 Dwynen's Elite, -1 Heritage Druid, +1 Spellskite, +1 Scavenging Ooze, +1 Eternal Witness, +1 Selfless Spirit, +1 Chameleon Colossus, +1 Thragtusk
Game 2 (L): Izzet Staticaster, Lightning Bolt and Dispel kept me at bay. T1 and T2 Delver which both flipped T3 finshed the game quickly.
Game 3 (L): Mulligan on 5 / Opponent mulligan on 6. T1/T2 Delver with follow-up blind flip again. He had all the 1-Mana answers again. He outplayed me hard though. Kudos to him.
Notes:
Other decks on that day were: BUG Midrange, Jund, Junk, Skred, Dredge, Elves.
I finished on 3rd and didn't get anything. The Bant Eldrazi Player I beat in round three got 1st thanks to his Bye in Round 1 which pushed his opponent-score through the roof. Grixis Delver finished 2nd. This is pretty unfortunate as I was the only one in the room after round three who had a 3-0 score. But I didn't get anything in the end. Pity...
I had to mulligan a lot during the day. Five mulligans on five and two on six. I was able to win two of those games where I had to go to five.I didn't have the right combination of cards most of the time. 2-lander with Dwynen's Elite as the only 2-drop and more expensive stuff, 1 lander with no Mana-Dork, 3-lander with three Mana-Dorks and an Elite...Lead the Stampede however can get you back into the game in no time!
I'm not sure if my sideboarding against Grixis Delver was correct. His clock was quite fast and I pondered after my loss if my slower approach was the right choice. I'm eager to hear your oppinions on my choices.
...and I finally need to get those Cavern of Soul...
Nettle Sentinel was the right choice for the day. I pondered the day before to cut Sentinels and add Essence Warden.
The new Deathtouch Elf will be tested next. He trades well against midrange, Abzan Aggro or Eldrazi. I don't know, what the the right amount of Fetchland is, though.
I think I was prepared very well but felt short in the end. I'm open to feedback on my sideboarding and my deck-setup.
Thanks for reading,
Shandoral
S for grixis delver, I have 3 abrupt decay in my sb, they can't counter it and it deals with them. Dunno if you'd be willing to change your sb a bit to make space for it or dismember could be another option.
Cheers!
Edit: is cavern of souls that good? I rarely get my elves countered, maybe I just play against newbs?
Standard: XDon't play.X
Legacy: BUReanimatorUB
Vintage: URBWGDBRU
4 Razorverge Thicket
2 Blooming Marsh
3 Cavern of Souls
5 Forest
4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Nettle Sentinel
3 Elvish Visionary
4 Dwynen's Elite
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Shaman of the Pack
3 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
3 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Eternal Witness
2 Chameleon Colossus
1 Thragtusk
1 Chocke
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Fracturing Gust
2 Stein the Mind
1 Carcereiro Yixlid
Finished the deck this week and went to my first FNM today. Sad to say I was totally destroyed =(
Lost round 1 by Lantern Control (I did not see a SINGLE sideboard card game 2, and game 1 he did the combo)
Win round 2 against Naya Zoo (I played very well)
Lost round 3 Jeskai Control (Anger, Snapecaster > Anger)...started to get upset here
Win Round 4 BYE
Lost round 5 Valakut (Anger, Valakuts, 3 damage...game 2 I empty my hand turn 2 and he did MANA Simian Spirit Simian Spirit and Anger turn 2).
Since Im very new to elves I would like to ask:
1)Controls/mass removals are our terrible matchs?
2)Against Anger decks did you try to race or play slowly?
3)Silver Bullets wansnt enough to handle Angers decks...terrible matchup, Im with a big headache to be honest after this FNM =(
Any advices ???
Lets just say that Cavern isn't essential. As you can see from the other present decks, it would have done nothing against 95% of the field. The spells getting countered are usually CoCo, Lead or Chord as these are high impact cards. Cavern doesn't protect non-creature spells and I won't start to run Boseiju, Who Shelters All. But occasionally I run into some Grixis Decks that still counter my creatures. E.g. the Grixis Delver player is actually a pretty good tempo player and he knows how to keep the momentum going. And getting an Archdruid/Shaman of the Pack Remanded or countered is taxing. In cornercase scenarios like this Cavern is pretty good as it has no cost. It costs less life than Fetch/Shock, it taps for all the colours we need for our Elves and can even help to cast Silver Bullets from the Sideboard. And Blood Moon shouldn't be the problem.
I just don't see any downsides to not run Cavern. That's why I want to have the card but I don't have the budget for a 50+ Euros card. BUT...you don't NEED Cavern! I just think you might get some minor percentage points in the right matchups.
For sideboarding: The thing with Dismember and Abrupt Decay is that I would consider these cards in a straight GB build. I feel like a will lose to much life in an Abzan build casting them. But maybe I have to try it out. Thanks for the recommendation.
1) I don't really find control a huge issue. Usually you can beat them before they get annoying. I run two Cavern of Souls and that seems to help some. Control really isn't that big right now. Maybe not the case in your meta...
2) Anger of the Gods isn't favorable but, not unbeatable. Selfless sport is obviously good as well as Burrenten Forge-Tender. Also lead the Stampede is good at rebuilding your army to overcome an Anger of the Gods. Pay No Heed is also good against that and it works against Valakut. But the main thing is you have to be smart with your plays. On the play: If you don't have a real explosive hand, you may want to play it slower. If you can get in a bunch of damage before an Anger of the Gods hit, it may be worth while to get in the damage and then drop a Shaman second main. If you have enough creatures and mana you can also flip Westvale Abbey in response to give you a pretty huge creature that is tough to deal with.
3) If you find your meta is filled with mass removal you may want to consider changing your sideboard some to reflect that.
Hopefully that helps!
Biggest difference between the two decks is that Merfolk has their lords on the 2CMC slot whereas Elves have them on 3CMC. Which means you'd rely on Vial to bring in 2CMC threats like Mimic and Greenwheel Liberator (though the problem of enabling revolt remains). Would need to be tested out, but overall seems too clunky compared to CoCo Elves lists. Then again we had months of playtesting to streamline the current iteration of the decks
Don't let the losses discourage you. You faced a couple quite hard matchups for Elves.
Lantern Control is race against the clock before they establish their lock. Shaman of the Pack helps here as it goes under the bridge, but generally they won't let you draw one. So you need a CoCo or Chord in hand to fetch one when needed.
Jeskai and Valakut rely heavily on red damage based spells. They're tricky to play against because obviously you don't want to overextend to minimize the fallout from Anger of the Gods. On the other hand you need a board presence to deal with Nahiri, the Harbinger once it hits or be ready to kill before Scapeshift hits. Mark of Asylum is great against these matchups (especially Jeskai) since they'll need sideboard answers to deal with it while completely blanking their removal.
Against Anger decks just play a creature or two and keep swinging with them. Chipping away at their life for 1-2 points per turn along with their fetchland use can bring them down to 10 quite fast. This way they're forced to use Anger on just 1-2 creatures while you have your hand stocked up to re-establish board presence afterwards.
WBG Elves WBG
Cheeri0s
EDH:
RG Omnath, Locus of Rage RG || GWUB Atraxa, Praetors' Voice GWUB
R Zo-Zu the Punisher R || WU Brago, King Eternal WU
UB Gisa and Geralf UB || BGW Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW
I think I'll buy a playset and test it out next time
Thoughts about it?
Standard: XDon't play.X
Legacy: BUReanimatorUB
Vintage: URBWGDBRU
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Heritage Druid
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Dwynen's Elite
4 Elvish Archdruid
3 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
3 Shaman of the Pack
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Spellskite
1 Eternal Witness
4 Collected Company
3 Chord of Calling
1 Eldritch Evolution
Lands (18):
4 Forest
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Gilt-Leaf Palace
3 Windswept Heath
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Temple Garden
1 Pendelhaven
2 Mark of Asylum
2 Prowess of the Fair
2 Essence Warden
2 Dismember
1 Duress
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Scavenging Ooze
Won 2-0 against Jeskai Nahiri
Won 2-0 against Abzan Elves
Lost 0-2 against Tron Eldrazi
Won 2-1 against GW Tron
Should've expected the absence of Infect and removed that Melira from the sideboard. Same goes for Kataki.
Has anyone else faced Tron Eldrazi? What are your suggestions for the matchup?
If they hit us with an early Chalice of the Void on 1, it's hard without Caverns. With meta shifting slightly more towards slower decks and control, Caverns might be a good call especially against Grixis, Jeskai and any decks running Chalice such as Tron Eldrazi. The also pack other spot removal such as Warping Wail and/or Gut Shot/Dismember to deal with our dorks before deploying their Thought-Knot Seers and Reality Smashers. Another problematic card that usually means game over is All is Dust. Chording for Tajuru Preserver can prevent a blowout. Other than that, I'm not sure how else to combat them.
GW Tron is considerably less threatening than RG version purely because they don't have access to Pyroclasm, Firespout or Lightning Bolt. Only matchup where I saw Prowess of the Fair. 1st copy got exiled by Ugin while 2nd one helped me rebuild after Oblivion Stone activation in game 2. Unfortunately 3rd Stone was just too much.
Seems like a good choice for monogreen and non-toolbox builds. Toolbox versions probably prefer Chord + Selfless Spirit package as it provides more flexibility.
WBG Elves WBG
Cheeri0s
EDH:
RG Omnath, Locus of Rage RG || GWUB Atraxa, Praetors' Voice GWUB
R Zo-Zu the Punisher R || WU Brago, King Eternal WU
UB Gisa and Geralf UB || BGW Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW
I've also replaced a Lead with Lifecrafter's bestiary, but haven't cast it enough times to form a solid opinion on it. It's alright when you have the mana, and OK in attrition, but I can't say if Lead's still the better card.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
I'm obviously not iceraiin but I've just been lurking in the thread for a while now It looks like iceraiin is playing an Abzan list similar to Ryan Saxe's Abzan Elves list (there's a link to his list and SCG article in the Primer). From the article Ryan says:
From what I've seemed to gather, Ryan's gameplan is to hedge his bets in Game 1 by running a more-or-less 'safe' build, then - once we know what deck we're up against - sideboarding in all the 'toolbox' cards and extra Chords to have a stronger Game 2 (and Game 3 if necessary)
I've been testing a few different builds of Elves on my own and I think an important thing I've found is that there's not necessarily one decklist that is "right" or "wrong" but they can each be tailored to your own playstyle. The 4 Lead version can just as easily kill on turn 4 than the 4 Chord version. Same with G/B vs. G/W. Sure, they each have their own strengths and weaknesses but they all essentially run the same 'shell'. Just find the one that works best for you
yea i made a mistake with my scenario. my point is just that sometimes when you can chord for 2, it sets up a new line of possibilities. Instead of hinging everything on an ezuri, the stakes are a lot lower and the apples are spread across more baskets.
I identified that as the problem too: what to replace. I dropped 1 visionary for the mimic.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
Our bad match ups are the people who pack wipes mainboard such as anger of the gods, o stone and pyroclasms. The winning chance comes where you make the correct decision to go wide and race, or go slow and bait the wipe. Depending on that the opponent draws, it may go either way.
Slightly unfavored are your removal-heavy attrition or midrange decks, who will start trading 1 for 1 at first and then outvalue you with recursion or card draw.
We are favored against the majority of opposing aggro save affinity (altho we can do great postboard), and draw-go decks that don't pack too many wipes, or expensive wipes (such as verdict). We're fast enough to go under these guys. We're also favored against non-interactive so long as we have chord targets that kill them: Eidolon of Rhetoric vs Storm/Living End/Restore Balance, Melira vs Infect, and so on.
Between hatebears and elves, you need to know that hatebears have a more skewed match up rate. They do fantastic against control decks but flounder against creature decks like elves, merfolk, eldrazi, or basically any deck that has a majority of creature spells and doesn't fetch. Hatebears are great when there are alot of tricolor control and attrition decks like jund, grixis, jeskai and so on. Elves on the other hand are more all-rounded. We have the good and bad like what I mentioned upstairs, but it isn't so swingy. I played Eldrazi against hatebears and they were basically playing grizzly bears against my reality smashers and thought-knots, it was a massacre. Elves on the other hand is able to even the odds against a wide swath of decks postboard with chords, though it may not enjoy ridiculous walk overs (like hatebears vs grixis).
If I had money to spend on just the 1 deck, I'd make it elves.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR