Marauder doesn't seem good enough to build around, but I might be pleasantly surprised. As an aside, Alesha can't return Keldon Marauders.
I became a little bit more interested in Kari Zev when I realized that her token helps you have enough attackers to flip Kytheon or trigger Boros Elite in Naya lists.
Hmm yeah unified will is probably too cute. Negate is a lot more reliable. Can you show us your list? If there is a competitive deck with a pirate monkey in it, I want to try it out!
It's pretty much the same as the 4C Company list in the primer, but with 2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben swapped out for 2x Kari Zev, Skyship Raider. She seems to slot in very nicely to the deck's overall tempo/feel and gameplan.
Out of all the lists I've tried, this one wins the most consistently from all different types of board states and situations. It can close games out when it's ahead, it can come from behind and it can fight through tons of removal.
Out of curiosity, what's your thought process on running Kari Zev over Voltaic Brawler? I guess you value the bigger butt over more aggressive attack power? Have you thought about running 1x Kari, 1x Brawler to spare yourself the occasional legendary clashes?
Out of curiosity, what's your thought process on running Kari Zev over Voltaic Brawler? I guess you value the bigger butt over more aggressive attack power? Have you thought about running 1x Kari, 1x Brawler to spare yourself the occasional legendary clashes?
I like the 3 toughness, menace and the 2nd attacking body. Brawler only represents more attack damage when there's energy to spend during attacks; the rest of the time, Kari Zev is generally better. The deck also has trouble blocking against smaller aggro decks, especially at the 2 cmc slot; cards like Monastery Swiftspear are generally problematic. Kari Zev is much better against such creatures. I like that she is good both on defense and offense. Not requiring double color on turn 2 is a nice advantage as well.
I became a little bit more interested in Kari Zev when I realized that her token helps you have enough attackers to flip Kytheon or trigger Boros Elite in Naya lists.
Kari doesn't help trigger Battalion.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
There's a lot of midrange BGx and Eldrazi out there right now. IMO it's a better time for Inspector's value over Pilgrim's ramp. I tried 2x Avacyn's Pilgrim and while the extra T3 CoCos can be great, it'll often get zapped against interactive decks and you don't need any more bad topdecks.
For your Bant list with 9x three-drops I would play 22 lands with a Horizon Canopy as the 22nd land, and a single copy of Ghost Quarter and Gavony Township. 20 lands with 3 colorless sources is simply too greedy.
Hey everyone!
To be honest, i haven't read the whole thread yet, but i thought it's really cool humans has one here. Been playing humans roughly since rtr standard,though it wasn't all that good. I'm on a boros list at the moment.
Has someone thought about Lightning Mauler in red lists? In my experience it gives us really fast draws, plus i'm a fan of the soulbound mechanic. I also like running Silverblade Paladin, though not convinced as much by that guy. It certainly is fun to pair him to a big Champion of the Parish or Thalia's Lieutenant. I used to even play Spark Trooper at some point for 12 trampling lifelinking damage on turn 4.
I like how a boros list that stays pretty white and plays red mostly for burn can be pretty fast, while also being able to play a quite interactive game if the opponent is faster.
I guess I'll be a little more active here in the future, looking forward to talking humans with you people
I wouldn't max out on Ralliers as "Revolt" isn't that trivial to achieve, I would rather go with 2x Tireless Tracker over a couple of Ralliers and replace Duskwatch with 1x more KotR.
Duskwatch Recruiter's role is to draw cards and I think that Tireless Tracker is much better at it while also being a threat (and a better creature overall).
Phantasmal Image doesn't seem to have particulary great targets in this deck (like Drogskol Captain in Spirits or Scion of Oona in Faeries), Thalia's Lieutenant probably being the best so I'd rather have another lord (Mayor) or a big beater (KotR) instead.
I like this list, looks solid. The only card I'm unsure about are the two jaces. Are they really that good? They look so strange in an aggro deck next to Kari Zev's and lords.
Jace is fantastic, honestly. Yeah, he looks strange in what is typically an aggro deck, but he adds a lot of resilience to the deck at a very small cost. He usually ends the game quickly, if not on the spot with a flashed back Collected Company. The 2 drop spot is so busy that the deck can certainly afford such a luxury. I typically run my beaters out, then once all the removal is exhausted, drop Jace and clean up. Or just hit one off a CoCo, then flip and flash back. Even the +1 ability or a flash backed Path to Exile can help push damage through against large blockers, which is nice. It's very rare that I don't want to see a Jace in my hand - and that's usually when I already have the other Jace on board. Think of Jace as a cheaper Eternal Witness with generally more utility.
Duskwatch Recruiter's role is to draw cards and I think that Tireless Tracker is much better at it while also being a threat (and a better creature overall).
I'm not sure it's that cut and dry. Tireless Tracker requires follow-up lands to be effective, whereas Duskwatch Recruiter can pluck a creature from 3 cards deep by itself. In a deck with 30+ creatures and just over 20 lands, I'm not sure Tracker is at its best, whereas Recruiter feels right at home. At its base, Tracker is only 1 more power for 1 more mana. If you're building your deck specifically for grindy games, sure, but I'm always hesitant to play such a low toughness creature for 3 mana that doesn't do anything the turn it comes down. I would gladly play Tracker in a GW list with Knight of the Reliquary and Renegade Rallier where the value upside gets insane, but most other versions of Humans would rather play something else.
There's a lot of midrange BGx and Eldrazi out there right now. IMO it's a better time for Inspector's value over Pilgrim's ramp. I tried 2x Avacyn's Pilgrim and while the extra T3 CoCos can be great, it'll often get zapped against interactive decks and you don't need any more bad topdecks.
Fair points; I can certainly see the argument for Thraben Inspector.
Hey everyone!
To be honest, i haven't read the whole thread yet, but i thought it's really cool humans has one here. Been playing humans roughly since rtr standard,though it wasn't all that good. I'm on a boros list at the moment.
Has someone thought about Lightning Mauler in red lists? In my experience it gives us really fast draws, plus i'm a fan of the soulbound mechanic. I also like running Silverblade Paladin, though not convinced as much by that guy. It certainly is fun to pair him to a big Champion of the Parish or Thalia's Lieutenant. I used to even play Spark Trooper at some point for 12 trampling lifelinking damage on turn 4.
I like how a boros list that stays pretty white and plays red mostly for burn can be pretty fast, while also being able to play a quite interactive game if the opponent is faster.
I guess I'll be a little more active here in the future, looking forward to talking humans with you people
Welcome to the party! Lightning Mauler with Burning-Tree Emissary is an awesome one-two punch that enables some insanely quick starts. Silverblade Paladin is probably not the ideal card to run; there are plenty of other cards listed in the 2 and 3 mana sections in the primer to try out. There are also a few Boros/Naya lists floating around in here and the previous thread (also linked in the OP), so feel free to browse!
I'm not sure yet about the Silverblade Paladin-thing. I was actually always quite pleased with the guy. I guess I'll test a bit with Metallic Mimic instead the Paladins I'm currently running and see how that goes, didn't get to test the Mimic yet. Maybe also try Hanweir Garrison along the way. Let's see
It's been 2 years from now that i play and test a lot my Collected Humans so i'm happy to finally see a Primer on Humans in Modern
First of all, i think the aggro Abzan Version should really play Bloodsoaked Champion. He is recursive(so help for our weakness against removal), he has 2 power for one mana and finally you can use the raid ability after attackers step so it even pumps Champion of Parish and Thalia's Lieutenant
Welcome! Bloodsoaked Champion is a fantastic card and could definitely be slotted into the Abzan aggro build. The list I posted in the primer is built to withstand more mid/lategame scenarios, hence why it runs Warden of the First Tree and Thraben Inspector. For anyone wanting a more aggressive slant, Bloodsoaked Champion would be my first suggestion.
Both of your lists look solid, though I'm surprised at the lack of Anafenza, the Foremost in the Abzan deck. Also, I recommend following the deck list format like what's used in the primer so that it's easier for people to read your lists.
I felt like trying snapcaster mage in a human deck, so I decided to try out Jeskai. Gather the townsfolk I feel might make it possible to justify splitting between enough human creatures to make Thalia's Lieutenant and Champion of the Parish good, and enough instant/sorceries to make Snapcaster Mage good.
With a low curve and a significant amount of burn spells/haste creatures, it /should/ be able to race Tron and combo decks, while the counterspells have the potential to buy an extra turn. Meanwhile, the removal spells, and eventually reflector mage post sideboarding slow down rush decks while Champion of the Parish and Thalia's Lieutenant become large enough threats to challenge other creature based decks. It seemed to do okay when I played it online, but that's not entirely surprising.
1 Mana (16):
4x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Champion of the Parish
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Path to Exile
2 Mana (18):
4x Thalia's Lieutenant
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Gather the Townsfolk
2x Mana Leak
2x Lightning Helix
2x Boros Charm
I've messed around with Jeskai a bit and haven't quite gotten a balance of humans and spells that satisfied me but hopefully you'll have better luck. My personal experience has been that Gather the Townfolk is not worth running with less than 8 lords or anthem effects – those 1/1 bodies need a lot of support to do anything useful beyond chump blocking grounders. If your testing has brought you to a similar conclusion you might try replacing Gather with 2x Abbot and another 2x Lightning Helix or another 1-2 CMC spell. A singleton Slip through Space might be nice to help get your big Champ/Lt damage through while also drawing you into more gas.
Here is my take on a mono white human deck capitalizing on lord effects and artifacts. It needs testing to smooth out possible jank and consistency issues, but that's part of the fun.
As you may recall, I've been waffling back and forth on Thalia's place in a 4C list. The combination of running 3x Thalia with 2x Renegade Rallier has helped keep her on the board long enough to get a meaningful benefit out of her tax effect, even against interactive decks. There have been a few nonbo moments with CoCo but the benefits have outweighed the nonbos so far.
In general I've been pretty happy with Renegade Rallier in this deck as there are a lot of strong 2 CMC targets to rez. Unfortunately the 4 color manabase doesn't leave room for much more than 8 fetches so triggering Revolt isn't as guaranteed as I'd like. Haven't been burned by it too hard but it's something I'm keeping an eye on.
I'm re-testing Bolt in the current meta. The flexibility and reach is good as always, sniping dorks and other setup creatures can't quite be replicated with Path, and Reflector Mage does a decent job of handling the big stuff. Path and Blessed Alliance come in for the few matchups where Bolt underperforms, namely Death's Shadow Jund (DSJ).
Testing against GW Tron, Bant Eldrazi, and Jund have all gone pretty well but DSJ has been tricky. I'm bringing back 2 copies of Mirran Crusader since he can block their huge creatures and sticks to the board a little better in conjunction with Lieutenant when he's getting targeted by Goblin Tarfires instead of Bolts.
Also trying Rest in Peace to neutralize Goyf & Traverse, which is great when it works but I've also had RIP discarded which adds enchantment to the graveyard and powers up their Goyf / turns on Delerium ... I might try Relic of Progrnitus instead since they already get artifacts in their grave with Bauble, it plays better with Rallier, and I have more room in my curve at 1 CMC.
Grafdigger's Cage has shut me down a few times now, too, but I'm not sure that it's worth bringing in artifact removal just for two copies of Cage. Anyone have any other anti-DSJ tech they've been working with?
I agree with the sentiment that DSJ may become a gatekeeper of the format if it sticks around. This is bad news for all-in aggro variations of Human decks, particularly Naya. I'd guess that it's really tough for Mono-White game 1, too, but white has a lot of good sideboard cards for the matchup. Anyways, make sure you have a plan in mind for this matchup when you're building your deck! I'd recommend a MINIMUM of 8 pieces of interaction in your 75.
EDIT: OMG I can't believe I forgot about Deflecting Palm. Palm-ing a Battlerage'd Death's Shadow would be delicious. Even if that's a little Christmas-y, palm-ing a 5/6+ goyf would be pretty common.
Yeah you're right about Relic. It's worth noting that I can still get a discarded Relic back and since it cantrips on activation maybe it's not a big deal that I can't recycle it with Rallier.
After my Bolt experiment I think I'm going back to Path, lol. It seems to be worth it to pre-board against DSJ and free up some more sideboard slots.
I'm also re-testing Meddling Mage. Like Thalia, Mage is a lock piece that loses value when it's easily answered, but Rallier might help it stick enough to be worth it.
I became a little bit more interested in Kari Zev when I realized that her token helps you have enough attackers to flip Kytheon or trigger Boros Elite in Naya lists.
It's pretty much the same as the 4C Company list in the primer, but with 2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben swapped out for 2x Kari Zev, Skyship Raider. She seems to slot in very nicely to the deck's overall tempo/feel and gameplan.
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
3 Mayor of Avabruck
2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2 Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
2 Duskwatch Recruiter
4 Mantis Rider
4 Reflector Mage
Spells (8)
4 Collected Company
4 Path to Exile
1 Breeding Pool
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Windswept Heath
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
2 Kataki, War's Wage
4 Negate
2 Rest in Peace
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 War Priest of Thune
1 Meddling Mage
3 Arashin Cleric
Out of all the lists I've tried, this one wins the most consistently from all different types of board states and situations. It can close games out when it's ahead, it can come from behind and it can fight through tons of removal.
Nice find. Looks very similar to what Dr Sanchez and I were discussing a few posts ago.
That's interesting. Was there an interview with him/her discussing the matchups? I'm curious about how s/he dealt with the lack of evasion.
I guess that 4 paths and 4 reflector mages must have been enough removal to force through their attackers.
I like the 3 toughness, menace and the 2nd attacking body. Brawler only represents more attack damage when there's energy to spend during attacks; the rest of the time, Kari Zev is generally better. The deck also has trouble blocking against smaller aggro decks, especially at the 2 cmc slot; cards like Monastery Swiftspear are generally problematic. Kari Zev is much better against such creatures. I like that she is good both on defense and offense. Not requiring double color on turn 2 is a nice advantage as well.
And most importantly....monkeys.
Kari doesn't help trigger Battalion.
For your Bant list with 9x three-drops I would play 22 lands with a Horizon Canopy as the 22nd land, and a single copy of Ghost Quarter and Gavony Township. 20 lands with 3 colorless sources is simply too greedy.
To be honest, i haven't read the whole thread yet, but i thought it's really cool humans has one here. Been playing humans roughly since rtr standard,though it wasn't all that good. I'm on a boros list at the moment.
Has someone thought about Lightning Mauler in red lists? In my experience it gives us really fast draws, plus i'm a fan of the soulbound mechanic. I also like running Silverblade Paladin, though not convinced as much by that guy. It certainly is fun to pair him to a big Champion of the Parish or Thalia's Lieutenant. I used to even play Spark Trooper at some point for 12 trampling lifelinking damage on turn 4.
I like how a boros list that stays pretty white and plays red mostly for burn can be pretty fast, while also being able to play a quite interactive game if the opponent is faster.
I guess I'll be a little more active here in the future, looking forward to talking humans with you people
I would rather run the 4th Mayor over P.Image.
Phantasmal Image doesn't seem to have particulary great targets in this deck (like Drogskol Captain in Spirits or Scion of Oona in Faeries),
Thalia's Lieutenant probably being the best so I'd rather have another lord (Mayor) or a big beater (KotR) instead.
Jace is fantastic, honestly. Yeah, he looks strange in what is typically an aggro deck, but he adds a lot of resilience to the deck at a very small cost. He usually ends the game quickly, if not on the spot with a flashed back Collected Company. The 2 drop spot is so busy that the deck can certainly afford such a luxury. I typically run my beaters out, then once all the removal is exhausted, drop Jace and clean up. Or just hit one off a CoCo, then flip and flash back. Even the +1 ability or a flash backed Path to Exile can help push damage through against large blockers, which is nice. It's very rare that I don't want to see a Jace in my hand - and that's usually when I already have the other Jace on board. Think of Jace as a cheaper Eternal Witness with generally more utility.
I'm not sure it's that cut and dry. Tireless Tracker requires follow-up lands to be effective, whereas Duskwatch Recruiter can pluck a creature from 3 cards deep by itself. In a deck with 30+ creatures and just over 20 lands, I'm not sure Tracker is at its best, whereas Recruiter feels right at home. At its base, Tracker is only 1 more power for 1 more mana. If you're building your deck specifically for grindy games, sure, but I'm always hesitant to play such a low toughness creature for 3 mana that doesn't do anything the turn it comes down. I would gladly play Tracker in a GW list with Knight of the Reliquary and Renegade Rallier where the value upside gets insane, but most other versions of Humans would rather play something else.
Fair points; I can certainly see the argument for Thraben Inspector.
Welcome to the party! Lightning Mauler with Burning-Tree Emissary is an awesome one-two punch that enables some insanely quick starts. Silverblade Paladin is probably not the ideal card to run; there are plenty of other cards listed in the 2 and 3 mana sections in the primer to try out. There are also a few Boros/Naya lists floating around in here and the previous thread (also linked in the OP), so feel free to browse!
Welcome! Bloodsoaked Champion is a fantastic card and could definitely be slotted into the Abzan aggro build. The list I posted in the primer is built to withstand more mid/lategame scenarios, hence why it runs Warden of the First Tree and Thraben Inspector. For anyone wanting a more aggressive slant, Bloodsoaked Champion would be my first suggestion.
Both of your lists look solid, though I'm surprised at the lack of Anafenza, the Foremost in the Abzan deck. Also, I recommend following the deck list format like what's used in the primer so that it's easier for people to read your lists.
With a low curve and a significant amount of burn spells/haste creatures, it /should/ be able to race Tron and combo decks, while the counterspells have the potential to buy an extra turn. Meanwhile, the removal spells, and eventually reflector mage post sideboarding slow down rush decks while Champion of the Parish and Thalia's Lieutenant become large enough threats to challenge other creature based decks. It seemed to do okay when I played it online, but that's not entirely surprising.
4x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Champion of the Parish
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Path to Exile
2 Mana (18):
4x Thalia's Lieutenant
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Gather the Townsfolk
2x Mana Leak
2x Lightning Helix
2x Boros Charm
3 Mana (4):
4x Mantis Rider
Lands (22):
4x Flooded Strand
4x Arid Mesa
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Steam Vents
2x Inspiring Vantage
2x Spirebluff Canal
1x Glacial Fortress
2x Island
2x Plains
2x Mountain
Side Deck (15):
4x Reflector Mage
4x Negate
2x Stony Silence
1x Izzet Staticaster
2x Wear//Tear
2x Lightning Helix
- Consul's Lieutenant
- Thalia's Lieutenant
- Toolcraft Exemplar
- Ardent Recruit
- Boros Elite
- Knight of the Parish
- Selfless Cathar
- Thraben Inspector
- Signal Pest
- Memnite
SUPPORT: 4
- Mox Opal
RESOURCES: 16
- Darksteel Citadel [x3]
- Plains [x13]
CONSIDERING:
- Wojek Siren
- Brave the Elements
Here is my take on a mono white human deck capitalizing on lord effects and artifacts. It needs testing to smooth out possible jank and consistency issues, but that's part of the fun.
YOUTUBE CHANNEL: GOBOTS
1x Breeding Pool
4x Cavern of Souls
1x Forest
1x Mountain
2x Razorverge Thicket
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Steam Vents
1x Stomping Ground
1x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Champion of the Parish
4x Noble Hierarch
2x Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
4x Thalia's Lieutenant
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Voltaic Brawler
4x Mantis Rider
4x Reflector Mage
2x Renegade Rallier
Instant (8)
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Collected Company
2x Path to Exile
2x Negate
2x Blessed Alliance
1x Deflecting Palm
1x Qasali Pridemage
2x Rest in Peace
2x Stony Silence
1x Izzet Staticaster
2x Mirran Crusader
In general I've been pretty happy with Renegade Rallier in this deck as there are a lot of strong 2 CMC targets to rez. Unfortunately the 4 color manabase doesn't leave room for much more than 8 fetches so triggering Revolt isn't as guaranteed as I'd like. Haven't been burned by it too hard but it's something I'm keeping an eye on.
I'm re-testing Bolt in the current meta. The flexibility and reach is good as always, sniping dorks and other setup creatures can't quite be replicated with Path, and Reflector Mage does a decent job of handling the big stuff. Path and Blessed Alliance come in for the few matchups where Bolt underperforms, namely Death's Shadow Jund (DSJ).
Testing against GW Tron, Bant Eldrazi, and Jund have all gone pretty well but DSJ has been tricky. I'm bringing back 2 copies of Mirran Crusader since he can block their huge creatures and sticks to the board a little better in conjunction with Lieutenant when he's getting targeted by Goblin Tarfires instead of Bolts.
Also trying Rest in Peace to neutralize Goyf & Traverse, which is great when it works but I've also had RIP discarded which adds enchantment to the graveyard and powers up their Goyf / turns on Delerium ... I might try Relic of Progrnitus instead since they already get artifacts in their grave with Bauble, it plays better with Rallier, and I have more room in my curve at 1 CMC.
Grafdigger's Cage has shut me down a few times now, too, but I'm not sure that it's worth bringing in artifact removal just for two copies of Cage. Anyone have any other anti-DSJ tech they've been working with?
I agree with the sentiment that DSJ may become a gatekeeper of the format if it sticks around. This is bad news for all-in aggro variations of Human decks, particularly Naya. I'd guess that it's really tough for Mono-White game 1, too, but white has a lot of good sideboard cards for the matchup. Anyways, make sure you have a plan in mind for this matchup when you're building your deck! I'd recommend a MINIMUM of 8 pieces of interaction in your 75.
EDIT: OMG I can't believe I forgot about Deflecting Palm. Palm-ing a Battlerage'd Death's Shadow would be delicious. Even if that's a little Christmas-y, palm-ing a 5/6+ goyf would be pretty common.
After my Bolt experiment I think I'm going back to Path, lol. It seems to be worth it to pre-board against DSJ and free up some more sideboard slots.
2x Blessed Alliance
2x Deflecting Palm
2x Meddling Mage
2x Qasali Pridemage
2x Stony Silence
1x Izzet Staticaster
2x Mirran Crusader