Hello, I am back to modern after a long break and since I was playing grixis delver last time I thought I would pick up from where I left.
I was thinking about a decklist that looks something like that
If you count that is 62 cards and I am thinking of cutting 1x Dreadbore and 1x Terminate but on the other hand those seem important, but on the other hand they do not synergize well with Dreadhorde Arcanist since they have 2cmc. The idea is to play delver and then keep permision or arcanist and abuse the cantrips. Someone could make an argument since I am abuzing cantrips why dont I go full pyromancer or phoenix, well I don't really know yet, I want to play delver and arcanist. I was also considering trying out Claim // Fame just because I like the card and potentialy make my little threats persist after a boardwipe. I know Kolaghan's Command is straight up better but I cannot invest right now to buy 3 of them and even if I got them what would i cut? The thing is with Arcanist in the deck I feel more inclined to play cantrips, maybe rid mana leaks and add 1 remand and 3 thoughtseize for more discard power with flashbacks.
What is your take on those ideas?
Because of how a tempo deck works compared to midrange. The latter has a tap-out strategy that aims to destroy the opponent's resources and, afterwards, win the attrition game. Tempo, instead, is a draw-go strategy that wants to land a threat AND THEN protect it while it hits the opponent. The disadvantage is that it's harder to protect something than killing it, of course (and also that counterspells in modern aren't great), but the advantage is that the opponent wastes mana playing the spell you counter (or the creature you kill) basically making he lose one turn and bringing you one turn closer to the win. Discard spells, on the other side, don't make the opponent waste any mana and leave you unprotected from topdecks.
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Playing since FRF
Modern:
Grixis Shadow
Jeskai Delver
Standard:
Temur Energy
EDH:
Roon of the Hidden Realm
Discard is bad in tempo, as I stated shortly above. So I'd cut the 4 ioks and add 2 kcommands. I'd also replace the 3rd push with the 4th opt and change the counter base, going with 3 mana leaks, 2 spell snares and 1 dispel. For the last slot I'd add a fatal push.
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Playing since FRF
Modern:
Grixis Shadow
Jeskai Delver
Standard:
Temur Energy
EDH:
Roon of the Hidden Realm
Since I do not have any Snapcaster Mage what do you think would be the best way to implent Dreadhorde Arcanist? The way I see it that discard is a preemptive counter and it feels that you cannot go wrong with IoK. Should I go with a more aggressive build and focus on UR delver with bolts coming from the arcanist and creatures from young pyro? Should I consider playing looting on Grixis Delver?
Since I do not have any Snapcaster Mage what do you think would be the best way to implent Dreadhorde Arcanist? The way I see it that discard is a preemptive counter and it feels that you cannot go wrong with IoK. Should I go with a more aggressive build and focus on UR delver with bolts coming from the arcanist and creatures from young pyro? Should I consider playing looting on Grixis Delver?
If you're playing delver and lack the budget for snapcaster, you can consider using Mission Briefing instead for your value, and then leverage on that higher spell count by playing spells matters threats such as thing in the ice, bedlam reveler or young pyro. Incidentally, replacing scm with briefing does make your namesake threat a little better.
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BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
Even though this thread looks like an abandoned lands, after some meditation I decided to post also here. I'm a long-term Tempo player, and I went through several configurations: from the old Ninja-Bear-Delver, passing through Grixis Shadow and RUG Mandrills, and I've also played my fair share of Grixis Delver in the last 5-6 years.
I decided that I'm not interested in killing myself with my own hands (Shadow) in the current metagame. But a slower midrangey deck won't help either (the main reason why Grixis Delver is basically dead since two years ago). I decided to try a different approach, while I was pondering about how to improve Temur Delver. I'm performing quite well with it, but it kinda lacks hard removals. So, I was wondering... why the heck am I not playing the same approach, but in Grixis?
Basically, this list is the quintessence of Tempo: stick a threat, play the permission game, burn the opponent out of the match. You've got SEVEN enablers that let you cast a turn two Delve creature quite easily. Four Delvers. Four Peezy, that is either another aggressive threat (although fragile) or your plan B against grindy strategies (just flood the board with Elemental tokens).
Faithless Looting is also very good at providing us filtering, expecially in g1, when half of our deck is dead against certain strategies (removal vs Big Mana, counterspells vs Vial decks).
Stubborn Denial is very effective in this configuration, and it DOES catch the opponent off guard even without Ferocious. The second counterspell slot is the most contested one: I tried Deprive, Mana Leak and Remand. The last seems to be the most effective preboard against several archetypes, so for the time being I will let it be. Still work in progress here, though.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying, and welcome to Grixis Deliver. I understand wanting to adopt a style more like Deaths Shadow or Temur Delver if that's what you're used to, but I don't think that plays to all the strengths of Grixis Delver. Grixis Delver is one of the most Young Pyromancer focused decks in Modern, and YP benefits from being able to reuse your spells via midrange cards like Snapcaster Mage and Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. Also, although Faithless Looting is undoubtedly a good card, with zero payoff other than the delve threats, you'd probably be better served just running more traditional cantrips like Serum Visions. I'm also a little surprised you don't want to try out any off the new cards from Modern Horizons!
Speaking of which, with the whole set spoiled now, I think I have my initial build. Lots of card advantage to make up for the full set of Force of Negation, which couples with Gut Shot to give me a lot of zero mana plays, which in turn should give more confidence tapping out early. At least that's the hope...
If you're interested in explore Force of Negation here - which I don't suggest, it's way better in other iteractions of Delver due to the high amount of non-blue spells in Grixis - you should focus on being the faster you can. So, Chart a Course is definitely NOT a suggestion, and more delve threats + Thought Scour are needed.
no one talking about new cards and what can we add to our delver decks? anyone tried the new pyromancer instead of young pyro? what about the ashiok dream render? it can be a huge gas for our delve creatures and a good answer against graveyard focused deck as well, plus the passive ability. I'm trying 2x seasoned pyro insted of young pyro, huge card, even if it does not fit super well in our deck
no one talking about new cards and what can we add to our delver decks? anyone tried the new pyromancer instead of young pyro? what about the ashiok dream render? it can be a huge gas for our delve creatures and a good answer against graveyard focused deck as well, plus the passive ability. I'm trying 2x seasoned pyro insted of young pyro, huge card, even if it does not fit super well in our deck
I'm testing a 2-2 split between the two pyromancers and I feel great with it. I also loved two fiery islet replacing the fast lands I used to run. I'm also a fan of bedevil as a 1 of to replace dreadbore. It's heavy on the mana base but way better than dreadbore. For the side, I'm loving plague engineer and trying out one flusterstorm, which has performed decently but didn't shine. I don't like the new ashiok because I'm super light on delve threats (only one tasigur) and it feels too slow against graveyard decks, especially hoogakvine, which is still nearly unbeatable if it has a decent-good start.
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Playing since FRF
Modern:
Grixis Shadow
Jeskai Delver
Standard:
Temur Energy
EDH:
Roon of the Hidden Realm
I don' t feel going less than 4 big delves actually i played some games with the 2x big pyro instead of young pyro, but not super enthusiast if i can be honest...lot of situation i just don't want to discard any of my cards, and prefer to pass with open hand. It s HUGE on top deck tho, even if it does not make any token
Hi all. Long time lurker. I've been out of modern for a while. Is Delver still decent? I'm basically looking to have a deck that I can keep around that won't get banned.
Hi all. Long time lurker. I've been out of modern for a while. Is Delver still decent? I'm basically looking to have a deck that I can keep around that won't get banned.
The deck is, of course, not a tier. But the format is so vast that it still rewards the knowledge of the deck more than it's actual power level, so yes, if you can pilot it very well, you can still have good results with it. The meta is not great at the moment, but it isn't even terrible, so, after mastering it, you can expect an average winrate around 45% in my opinion, which is pretty good for an untiered deck.
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Playing since FRF
Modern:
Grixis Shadow
Jeskai Delver
Standard:
Temur Energy
EDH:
Roon of the Hidden Realm
The play patterns seem similar at a glance to Grixis Death's Shadow. Is that true in your knowledge?
It depends a lot on the build. Mine is very grindy (imagine a midrange deck that plays everything at instant speed and replaces discard with counterspells), but others are more shadow-like. The main difference between delver and gds is that you always have to try and get cheap damage turn by turn while gds relies on few massive life swings.
Private Mod Note
():
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Playing since FRF
Modern:
Grixis Shadow
Jeskai Delver
Standard:
Temur Energy
EDH:
Roon of the Hidden Realm
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I was thinking about a decklist that looks something like that
4x Delver of Secrets
2x Young Pyromancer
1x Gurmag Angler
4x Dreadhorde Arcanist
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Instant/Sorcery Spells (31 -> 29)
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Thought Scour
4x Serum Visions
3x Opt
4x Mana Leak
3x Remand
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Terminate
1x Dreadbore
3x Fatal Push
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Polluted Delta
2x Steam Vents
2x Blood Crypt
1x Watery Grave
1x Darkslick Shores
2x Island
1x Mountain
1x Swamp
1x Tormond's Crypt
1x Vandal Blast
2x Dismember
2x Extirpate
2x Grim Lavamancer
1x Dispel
1x Negate
2x Izzet Staticaster
2x Blightning
1x Angrath's Rampage
If you count that is 62 cards and I am thinking of cutting 1x Dreadbore and 1x Terminate but on the other hand those seem important, but on the other hand they do not synergize well with Dreadhorde Arcanist since they have 2cmc. The idea is to play delver and then keep permision or arcanist and abuse the cantrips. Someone could make an argument since I am abuzing cantrips why dont I go full pyromancer or phoenix, well I don't really know yet, I want to play delver and arcanist. I was also considering trying out Claim // Fame just because I like the card and potentialy make my little threats persist after a boardwipe. I know Kolaghan's Command is straight up better but I cannot invest right now to buy 3 of them and even if I got them what would i cut? The thing is with Arcanist in the deck I feel more inclined to play cantrips, maybe rid mana leaks and add 1 remand and 3 thoughtseize for more discard power with flashbacks.
What is your take on those ideas?
Modern:
Grixis Shadow
Jeskai Delver
Standard:
Temur Energy
EDH:
Roon of the Hidden Realm
Modern:
Grixis Shadow
Jeskai Delver
Standard:
Temur Energy
EDH:
Roon of the Hidden Realm
If you're playing delver and lack the budget for snapcaster, you can consider using Mission Briefing instead for your value, and then leverage on that higher spell count by playing spells matters threats such as thing in the ice, bedlam reveler or young pyro. Incidentally, replacing scm with briefing does make your namesake threat a little better.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
Even though this thread looks like an abandoned lands, after some meditation I decided to post also here. I'm a long-term Tempo player, and I went through several configurations: from the old Ninja-Bear-Delver, passing through Grixis Shadow and RUG Mandrills, and I've also played my fair share of Grixis Delver in the last 5-6 years.
I decided that I'm not interested in killing myself with my own hands (Shadow) in the current metagame. But a slower midrangey deck won't help either (the main reason why Grixis Delver is basically dead since two years ago). I decided to try a different approach, while I was pondering about how to improve Temur Delver. I'm performing quite well with it, but it kinda lacks hard removals. So, I was wondering... why the heck am I not playing the same approach, but in Grixis?
4x Polluted Delta
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Watery Grave
1x Blood Crypt
2x Steam Vents
2x Island
1x Swamp
3x Spirebluff Canal
Creatures (14):
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Young Pyromancer
3x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
3x Gurmag Angler
4x Opt
4x Thought Scour
3x Faithless Looting
Removals&Permission (17):
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Fatal Push
2x Terminate
1x Abrade
4x Stubborn Denial
3x Remand
1x Abrade
3x Ceremonious Rejection
2x Disdainful Stroke
4x Surgical Extraction
2x Engineered Explosives
3x Collective Brutality
Basically, this list is the quintessence of Tempo: stick a threat, play the permission game, burn the opponent out of the match. You've got SEVEN enablers that let you cast a turn two Delve creature quite easily. Four Delvers. Four Peezy, that is either another aggressive threat (although fragile) or your plan B against grindy strategies (just flood the board with Elemental tokens).
Faithless Looting is also very good at providing us filtering, expecially in g1, when half of our deck is dead against certain strategies (removal vs Big Mana, counterspells vs Vial decks).
Stubborn Denial is very effective in this configuration, and it DOES catch the opponent off guard even without Ferocious. The second counterspell slot is the most contested one: I tried Deprive, Mana Leak and Remand. The last seems to be the most effective preboard against several archetypes, so for the time being I will let it be. Still work in progress here, though.
Abrade is an effective way of dealing with resolved Chalice of the Void and Ensnaring Bridge in game one. Kolaghan's Command is definitely overcosted, and we prefer the first for the same reason why we would play Forked Bolt instead of Electrolyze and no Snapcaster Mage at all.
I'm having good responses, for the time being.
Speaking of which, with the whole set spoiled now, I think I have my initial build. Lots of card advantage to make up for the full set of Force of Negation, which couples with Gut Shot to give me a lot of zero mana plays, which in turn should give more confidence tapping out early. At least that's the hope...
2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Young Pyromancer
3 Chart a Course
2 Deprive
1 Echoing Truth
3 Fatal Push
4 Force of Negation
2 Gut Shot
1 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Opt
4 Serum Visions
2 Vapor Snag
1 Darkslick Shores
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Spirebluff Canal
2 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
2 By Force
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Dispel
1 Echo of Eons
2 Extirpate
2 Forked Bolt
2 Surgical Extraction
2 FLEX
If you're interested in explore Force of Negation here - which I don't suggest, it's way better in other iteractions of Delver due to the high amount of non-blue spells in Grixis - you should focus on being the faster you can. So, Chart a Course is definitely NOT a suggestion, and more delve threats + Thought Scour are needed.
I'm testing a 2-2 split between the two pyromancers and I feel great with it. I also loved two fiery islet replacing the fast lands I used to run. I'm also a fan of bedevil as a 1 of to replace dreadbore. It's heavy on the mana base but way better than dreadbore. For the side, I'm loving plague engineer and trying out one flusterstorm, which has performed decently but didn't shine. I don't like the new ashiok because I'm super light on delve threats (only one tasigur) and it feels too slow against graveyard decks, especially hoogakvine, which is still nearly unbeatable if it has a decent-good start.
Modern:
Grixis Shadow
Jeskai Delver
Standard:
Temur Energy
EDH:
Roon of the Hidden Realm
Modern: Bogles // 8-Whack/Goblins // UW Titan // Hollow One // Affinity // Dredge
EDH: Nissa, Vastwood Seer // Atraxa, Praetor's Voice // Meren of Clan Nel Toth
Modern:
Grixis Shadow
Jeskai Delver
Standard:
Temur Energy
EDH:
Roon of the Hidden Realm
The play patterns seem similar at a glance to Grixis Death's Shadow. Is that true in your knowledge?
Modern: Bogles // 8-Whack/Goblins // UW Titan // Hollow One // Affinity // Dredge
EDH: Nissa, Vastwood Seer // Atraxa, Praetor's Voice // Meren of Clan Nel Toth
It depends a lot on the build. Mine is very grindy (imagine a midrange deck that plays everything at instant speed and replaces discard with counterspells), but others are more shadow-like. The main difference between delver and gds is that you always have to try and get cheap damage turn by turn while gds relies on few massive life swings.
Modern:
Grixis Shadow
Jeskai Delver
Standard:
Temur Energy
EDH:
Roon of the Hidden Realm