Top 8'd a local league recently with delver, and while most of the MU's are favorable (lantern, burn, drazi and such) the 2 that can cause problems are Chord/Evolution/Coco lists. Any suggestions on winning there (basically, my build cannot beat a resolved voice of resurgence, basically ever). ATM my current SB plan is +1/2 link, +1 ashiok, +1 push, -1 sleight , -1 pyro, -1/2 random card X. My current thinking is to switch the flex slots to magma sprays, and sleight to snare #2, but wondered if you all had any better ideas first (suggestions in general are also appreciated). List looks like:
i have 1 anger of the gods and 1 magma spray on the sideboard for that matchup.
usually comes in magma spray, engineered explosives, magma spray, also my main deck contains 1 Electrolyze. I suggest that you play at least 2 spell snare.
This is my list from my local tcgplayer states (I think this was the latest kevin jones list but with some jank)
The 21 land was a typo and you can easily play 19 lands.
i have 1 anger of the gods and 1 magma spray on the sideboard for that matchup.
usually comes in magma spray, engineered explosives, magma spray, also my main deck contains 1 Electrolyze. I suggest that you play at least 2 spell snare.
This is my list from my local tcgplayer states (I think this was the latest kevin jones list but with some jank)
The 21 land was a typo and you can easily play 19 lands.
Personally I would favour an extra fatal push over main deck electrolyze or even an extra kolaghan's command. Dreadbore is maybe sideboard worthy, depending on how many planeswalkers you have at your heels. I HATE sorcery speed removal; so, although meta dependent, dreadbore is bad. A snap bore would be ALL on your turn
I've been testing a one-of Cut // Ribbons in the deck, and it's actually pretty good. Even though it's a weak Roast on one side, it is very good if you mill it with scour as a late game reach spell, as well as a good Snap target if you really need some additional removal late game. Still a bit weak against other delve creatures, but it can kill a good majority of creatures early and then give you some fine late-game options. Curious if anyone else has tried it out
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Modern UR Storm URB Grixis Delver W Death and Taxes
Basically anything with Scalding Tarn
Cut/Ribbons seems a little underpowered to be honest. The 4 damage in a world of creatures that have 5 or more power butts AND you can answer most of them via Fatal Push seems dubious. I agree it deserves at least some looks.
On another note, what's the consensus with Blood Moon vs Fulminator/Molten Rain? We already talked this but we didn't came to a conclusion.
Moon seems good at slowing down whereas Mage/Rain seems too slow and not very impactful. I would say that LD is better against combo decks involving lands, and you have to match it with Surgical Extraction to get better results, like Grixis Control SB plan.
Personally I would favour an extra fatal push over main deck electrolyze or even an extra kolaghan's command. Dreadbore is maybe sideboard worthy, depending on how many planeswalkers you have at your heels. I HATE sorcery speed removal; so, although meta dependent, dreadbore is bad. A snap bore would be ALL on your turn
The dreadbore is in there because of many Tron and JUND players in my LGS's. I was going to put 2 Kologhan's Command on the main deck but it just to sweet the 2 x 1 on decks with BoP and other 1 toughness creatures.
Im also running 2 blood moon in the side, on the long run is rhe most efficient way to slow down big mana decks. Its also very useful against 3 color strategies. What changes you made for the mana base? Im running 4 basics, 9 fetchlands
the blood moon gave me free wins against Primeval Titan and scapeshift decks. They usually don't search for basic forest and play the Summoner Pact for their loss.
I tried out Grixis Delver+Shadow a while back and I actually really enjoyed it. I didn't explore it too much, but the threat density was very high which was nice. I can't say if it plays the Delver plan better than straight Delver or the Shadow plan better than straight Shadow, but it is still something worth playing around with. Ryan Overturf really got that build known and it never really took off from there. It could be due to optimality issues and the other builds are simply stronger. Try it out, though, and let me know! Playing Shadow forces you to play 4x Thoughtseize usually, and I didn't want any maindeck discard (outside of Collective Brutality) and didn't miss it at all in any of my games (except maybe the Storm matchup which isn't horrible as it is).
Went 3-1 last night with Shadow Delver. Delver replaced Street Wraith because I wanted an early threat while later I could eventually start dropping shadows. Delver confused my opponents and threw them off as to which deck I was on and that was advantageous. They ended up spending removal on them which let my Shadows come down afterwards. Delver also provided a decent clock since he has evasion, something this deck lacks when you aren't running TBR. He did have some trouble flipping which is normal but Serum Visions is in the deck. He was still good when I had no starting hands with shadows to play into. I did not play Wraith for too long but I also did not like the plan of dropping my life so far down only to rely on DS. Maybe it was just bad variance during my initial playing with the deck. My opp had answers for them while I simply did not have protection. There are also times when my discard could not nab all the removal. I think if you are going to play the Wraith version it would be wise to run 4 denials. Also to note, I really liked having 1 Rise // Fall. That card was clutch at doing a few things my opponents were not expecting. My sequence was to hold Snap + Stubborn or Push something end of turn. Then on my turn Rise, bouncing Snap and reviving Shadow back to recast for a total of BBU. Felt pretty good to get more value from a Snap that way. There was also a game where Fall took the last two cards in his hand.
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
I have tried Shadow Delver myself for a few weeks before switching entirely to Grixis Shadow. The spells and card draw needed to run Delver died with the removal of Probe. If Street Wraith were a spell that flipped Delver, I might be singing a different tune, but I think Shadow decks need to reliably get their life total down and Delver decks want to cast their threats early. Shadow needs Wraith for card draw and life loss, Delver needs spells to flip himself. I don't think the two can profitably coexist in a deck as long as your free cantrip is a creature or an artifact. As much as I want Delver to be relevant again, it's going to take another free cantrip SPELL, or a FANTASTIC 1cmc draw spell to make him viable in today's meta.
I'm sure the wraith version with battle rage is becoming the most optimal, but I really wanted to give this version a go. My previous run with the wraith version felt like I was dying for nothing. It just doesn't work unless you draw shadow's. I was also able to rush out Tasigurs and Anglers but the opponent still had timely Paths for them. Soon afterwards I was in topdeck mode digging for threats. I was doing everything I should have been doing but it wasn't panning out. People were prepared and they took my threats out while I sat there with no protection for them or didn't have enough discard to disrupt them. I did flood out a lot which doesn't help. I still need to pick up a few key cards which will greatly sway my deck decisions (Brutality and LtLH).
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
I have tried Shadow Delver myself for a few weeks before switching entirely to Grixis Shadow. The spells and card draw needed to run Delver died with the removal of Probe. If Street Wraith were a spell that flipped Delver, I might be singing a different tune, but I think Shadow decks need to reliably get their life total down and Delver decks want to cast their threats early. Shadow needs Wraith for card draw and life loss, Delver needs spells to flip himself. I don't think the two can profitably coexist in a deck as long as your free cantrip is a creature or an artifact. As much as I want Delver to be relevant again, it's going to take another free cantrip SPELL, or a FANTASTIC 1cmc draw spell to make him viable in today's meta.
Noxious Revival sort of describes what you are looking for. Pays 2 life and puts a relevant spell back on top of library to flip Delver. Thoughts?
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
I've switched to Grixis Shadow too but I tested 2 copies of DS, replacing YP in the standard Delver shell with decent success. I never had a case of them just rotting in my hand and the inherently painful manabase of Grixis made my life total fall fast enough. It's not great against decks that go wide like YP would have been though, so I think it depends on your meta. Great against burn game 1 though. They tend to be aggressive as soon as they see a delver but play conservatively if you're playing Shadow, you can psyche them out by dropping a surprise shadow when they've already emptied most of their hand.
I have tried Shadow Delver myself for a few weeks before switching entirely to Grixis Shadow. The spells and card draw needed to run Delver died with the removal of Probe. If Street Wraith were a spell that flipped Delver, I might be singing a different tune, but I think Shadow decks need to reliably get their life total down and Delver decks want to cast their threats early. Shadow needs Wraith for card draw and life loss, Delver needs spells to flip himself. I don't think the two can profitably coexist in a deck as long as your free cantrip is a creature or an artifact. As much as I want Delver to be relevant again, it's going to take another free cantrip SPELL, or a FANTASTIC 1cmc draw spell to make him viable in today's meta.
Noxious Revival sort of describes what you are looking for. Pays 2 life and puts a relevant spell back on top of library to flip Delver. Thoughts?
I would honestly run main deck Surgical Extraction before this (which I have... to moderate success). The problem is none of those also draw you cards. With a low-curve deck running few lands, you want to draw as many cards as possible, and in a Delver deck, you want all those things to be SPELLS (flip Delver, make Young Pyromancer tokens, etc). I em sort of enjoying playing Shadow, but I would trade Wraiths and Shadows for Probes and Pyromancers in a heartbeat. Even if they reprinted Probe and removed the text about seeing opponent's hand.
I've just started playing around with this deck and I'm still learning how to play it, but would Bone Picker be a good card for this deck? Would it at the very least be something I could put in a somewhat budget build?
Lovin' it. People are trying different Grixis builds. Also, I've had my eye on Consume the Meek for a while. That card seems great AND it hits manlands.
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
I've just started playing around with this deck and I'm still learning how to play it, but would Bone Picker be a good card for this deck? Would it at the very least be something I could put in a somewhat budget build?
Beats a delver of secrets as a later game draw, but the question is, what would be subbed out to make room for it. Subbing out snapcaster mage seems bad all around, subbing out delve threats is bad too. Could beat out a main young pyromancer or vendilion clique, but those two cards do a lot more work than bone picker. delver of secrets seems the only option, but they are your key early threats; bone picker is not so early. Needs flash to replace delver entirely, to make it faster and easier to cast.
bone picker is horrible in grixis delver. Turns your removal sorcery speed, cant play it t1, and 4 mana isn't something we'll always have. The fail case on picker is so much worse than on delver, for minimal upside.
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." --Jaya Ballard
Lovin' it. People are trying different Grixis builds. Also, I've had my eye on Consume the Meek for a while. That card seems great AND it hits manlands.
Nice decklist, except it's not Grixis Delver.
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4 delver
3 snapcaster
3 tasigur
2 angler
2 pyro
1 clique
4 visions
4 scour
1 sleight of hand
4 leak
2 stubborn denial
1 snare
4 bolt
2 Kommand
3 terminate
1 push
1 murderous cut
18 land
////SB////
2 ancestral
2 thoughtseize
2 vampiric link
1 fatal push
1 blood moon
1 izzet staticaster
1 ashiok, nightmare weaver
1 hurkyl's recall
1 spellskite
1 countersquall
2 flex (brutality and dispel atm i believe).
Primers
4C Walkers
usually comes in magma spray, engineered explosives, magma spray, also my main deck contains 1 Electrolyze. I suggest that you play at least 2 spell snare.
This is my list from my local tcgplayer states (I think this was the latest kevin jones list but with some jank)
The 21 land was a typo and you can easily play 19 lands.
Personally I would favour an extra fatal push over main deck electrolyze or even an extra kolaghan's command. Dreadbore is maybe sideboard worthy, depending on how many planeswalkers you have at your heels. I HATE sorcery speed removal; so, although meta dependent, dreadbore is bad. A snap bore would be ALL on your turn
Primers
4C Walkers
UR Storm
URB Grixis Delver
W Death and Taxes
Basically anything with Scalding Tarn
On another note, what's the consensus with Blood Moon vs Fulminator/Molten Rain? We already talked this but we didn't came to a conclusion.
Moon seems good at slowing down whereas Mage/Rain seems too slow and not very impactful. I would say that LD is better against combo decks involving lands, and you have to match it with Surgical Extraction to get better results, like Grixis Control SB plan.
The dreadbore is in there because of many Tron and JUND players in my LGS's. I was going to put 2 Kologhan's Command on the main deck but it just to sweet the 2 x 1 on decks with BoP and other 1 toughness creatures.
the blood moon gave me free wins against Primeval Titan and scapeshift decks. They usually don't search for basic forest and play the Summoner Pact for their loss.
Went 3-1 last night with Shadow Delver. Delver replaced Street Wraith because I wanted an early threat while later I could eventually start dropping shadows. Delver confused my opponents and threw them off as to which deck I was on and that was advantageous. They ended up spending removal on them which let my Shadows come down afterwards. Delver also provided a decent clock since he has evasion, something this deck lacks when you aren't running TBR. He did have some trouble flipping which is normal but Serum Visions is in the deck. He was still good when I had no starting hands with shadows to play into. I did not play Wraith for too long but I also did not like the plan of dropping my life so far down only to rely on DS. Maybe it was just bad variance during my initial playing with the deck. My opp had answers for them while I simply did not have protection. There are also times when my discard could not nab all the removal. I think if you are going to play the Wraith version it would be wise to run 4 denials. Also to note, I really liked having 1 Rise // Fall. That card was clutch at doing a few things my opponents were not expecting. My sequence was to hold Snap + Stubborn or Push something end of turn. Then on my turn Rise, bouncing Snap and reviving Shadow back to recast for a total of BBU. Felt pretty good to get more value from a Snap that way. There was also a game where Fall took the last two cards in his hand.
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I'm sure the wraith version with battle rage is becoming the most optimal, but I really wanted to give this version a go. My previous run with the wraith version felt like I was dying for nothing. It just doesn't work unless you draw shadow's. I was also able to rush out Tasigurs and Anglers but the opponent still had timely Paths for them. Soon afterwards I was in topdeck mode digging for threats. I was doing everything I should have been doing but it wasn't panning out. People were prepared and they took my threats out while I sat there with no protection for them or didn't have enough discard to disrupt them. I did flood out a lot which doesn't help. I still need to pick up a few key cards which will greatly sway my deck decisions (Brutality and LtLH).
@Jonny_Tempel
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/grixis-shadow-delver-2/
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
Noxious Revival sort of describes what you are looking for. Pays 2 life and puts a relevant spell back on top of library to flip Delver. Thoughts?
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
I would honestly run main deck Surgical Extraction before this (which I have... to moderate success). The problem is none of those also draw you cards. With a low-curve deck running few lands, you want to draw as many cards as possible, and in a Delver deck, you want all those things to be SPELLS (flip Delver, make Young Pyromancer tokens, etc). I em sort of enjoying playing Shadow, but I would trade Wraiths and Shadows for Probes and Pyromancers in a heartbeat. Even if they reprinted Probe and removed the text about seeing opponent's hand.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Lovin' it. People are trying different Grixis builds. Also, I've had my eye on Consume the Meek for a while. That card seems great AND it hits manlands.
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
Beats a delver of secrets as a later game draw, but the question is, what would be subbed out to make room for it. Subbing out snapcaster mage seems bad all around, subbing out delve threats is bad too. Could beat out a main young pyromancer or vendilion clique, but those two cards do a lot more work than bone picker. delver of secrets seems the only option, but they are your key early threats; bone picker is not so early. Needs flash to replace delver entirely, to make it faster and easier to cast.
Primers
4C Walkers
Nice decklist, except it's not Grixis Delver.