trust me, it did work a lot better b4 deathrite shaman was banned, and also again at treasure cruise. so thats why i run the serum visions over ancetral visions for the snapcaster. also i don't concider electrolyze a can trip because it cost 3cmc (cantrips are 1cmc). the traverse card would be more of a can trip than that, but my fav for that kind of stuff is thought scour for instant draw.
let me go back to the traverse idea for tutoring... you have 6 types and the artifact you don't want in the yard so please explain how this is viable.
18 of the lands produce/get blue so its really not that big of a deal, tbh the biggest threat is blood moon and choke.
you don't want U on turn 1, you want B for disruption. grabbing the moon or chalice b4 they can use simion spirit guide to lock YOU OUT, leaving abrupt decay the only answer. this is meta dependent obviously
turn 2 you want B/x so you can play a goyf or bluff the counter
turn 3 you want removal mana up so you can start getting in with X creature.
turn 4 you want UUUx, and with as many duel lands as i run its not a problem unless you get hit with LD, fulminator mage, karn liberated, molten rain, rain of tears, etc
eldrazi is making anti-metas hard.
i've played bug mid b4, it would almost be like you swap vials for bitterblossom and thought scour. at this point i feel its safe to delerium.
So you don't want to play Serum Visions on turn 1 when you don't happen to have targeted discard?
Mainboard land destruction in the form of Spreading Seas (Merfolk and UW Control) or Ghost Quarter (Hatebears/DnT decks are currently seeing an uptick because they are good against Death's Shadow).
You are correct that AV is not for this deck, but that's not because Snapcaster can recast the SV, but because this decks wants to draw certain cards at a certain time and SV helps to do exactly that while we already play 4x bad lategame topdecks in Aether Vial (adding more in AV makes our lategame a lot worse).
I play Traverse the Ulvenwald as a 1x and see it as a landdrop that has a lot of utility lategame (kinda like a manland). You can't play many copies but a 1x has been very good for me so far.
So you are telling me you have been playing the deck back when Deathrite Shaman was running around in Modern and saying it was better at that time? DRS wrecked this deck! Jund was running around with 6+ ways (DRS and Scooze) to meddle with our Snap/E-Wits and once people realized how powerful DRS was (aka pretty soon) everybody tried to cram it into their deck...
So Ive been toying with RUG Eternal Command for the past couple of months. Just toying around at FNMs. Not planning on taking it to any comp REL events or anything, but today I was thinking about it and the natural tension between playing snapcaster mage and aether vial. Could that be solved by playing As Foretold? Or is the T1 vial too important? as I said I've merely dabbled with the list but it seemed to me that I started many hands without the vial and did fine. As Foretold comes down on turn 3 so the lock would not come down until T7, but as many of you say the lock is not the go to plan rather it just gives mid to late game staying power. If you were to run that over aether vial it might be worth going to bant to have access to more flash creatures to play nicely with As Foretold. Or if Bloodwater Entity becomes a thing, people have already seemed to identify jeskai colors as the best home for As Foretold. Just spitballing here, feel free to shoot me down.
As Foretold is a 3 mana do nothing card. Playing it in Modern, where you often enough won't even be able to tapout on turn 3 that is pretty bad. If you don't have ways to abuse is the turn it comes down (mainly AV and Restore Balance), I personally don't think it's playable at all.
Vial allows to put threats into play while holding up counters a lot earlier than AF, the upside of it also being able to cast spells doesn't make up for that imo. If we had the time until turn 7 to establish the lock, why would we play any accelerant at all and not just more landdrops? Yes the lock is not always the go to plan but against some decks it is (think Bant Eldrazi, Dredge G1...) and having it turn 7 the earliest is simply too late.
Edit: What do you guys think about Basilisk Collar in the SB? Seems pretty good against Eldrazi decks, ok against Grixis Control and equipping a Goyf with it against Burn should be pretty much lights out. Bonus points for using it with Staticaster/Huntermaster to kill stuff.
This used to be my go-to deck for modern. It is so incredible versatile, but I always found it to be lacking a little oomph.
I've been wondering about a scapeshift E-Command deck. Is that too off center for this deck? could it just be 3-4 slots that happen to win us the game with the correctly aligned lands? Is asking for turn 4 UUU and that many mountains impossible? Am I seriously proposing making this deck more expensive than it already is?
This used to be my go-to deck for modern. It is so incredible versatile, but I always found it to be lacking a little oomph.
I've been wondering about a scapeshift E-Command deck. Is that too off center for this deck? could it just be 3-4 slots that happen to win us the game with the correctly aligned lands? Is asking for turn 4 UUU and that many mountains impossible? Am I seriously proposing making this deck more expensive than it already is?
I tried to combine my RUG scapeshift and RUG command decks together maybe 2 years ago as an experiment. It sorta worked but as you may imagine there was some tension between goyf, vial and then all the ramp gubbins that you need to make scapeshift viable. Basically it was a hot mess. Not worth your time to brew. Aether vial isn't going to work in a scapeshift shell unless they print another Sakura-tribe elder type card.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I agree with Purklefluff here, Vial lets you play less lands while Scapeshift wants you to play more.
The deck doesn't have the room to play creatures, interaction spells AND ramp AND 3-4x Scapeshifts. You're trying to do too many things at once.
Oh and also playing sufficient mountains would make our manabase a hot mess...
I tried to combine my RUG scapeshift and RUG command decks together maybe 2 years ago as an experiment. It sorta worked but as you may imagine there was some tension between goyf, vial and then all the ramp gubbins that you need to make scapeshift viable. Basically it was a hot mess. Not worth your time to brew. Aether vial isn't going to work in a scapeshift shell unless they print another Sakura-tribe elder type card.
Thanks for the heads up.
I'll mess around with the BUG list for a while and see what I come to.
I was always a huge fan of Familiar's Ruse, running about 2 of them most of the time. We shall see if that holds true in today's world.
That's actually not even a bad idea, decks with relevant 2 drops aren't as prevalent as they used to (especially Goyfs), countering early targeted discard and Denial's is tempting, against Eldrazi Tron Snare mainly countered Chalice for 1 which Piece does do too usually with upside against stuff like early Maps. Pretty much every creature deck also plays Collected Company where Pierce is pretty good. The only deck I really see me missing my Snares is against Affinity...
Will try it out as a 1x.
3x Tasigur with no Thoughtscour to get them out on turn 2 (and fighting with 3x E-Wit and 3x Snaps for the graveyard) seems baaaaad.
You don't own Goyfs I guess? While they are worse against Push they are way better to reliably pressure your opponents early (Combo decks, Tron, Valakut etc.) especially combined with targeted discard.
That might be why the deck felt strong but just never played right. I was thinking there were Thought Scours in the deck but I never actually put them in.
When I did get him out it was really strong and consistent value.
Goyfs aren't a problem but I was trying something different.
I'm throwing my take on it together. This feels a lot like an edh deck which I really like, what are your thoughts on running Nissa, Steward of Elements as a finisher? I've been trying to brew a good bant deck and it feels like any color combination without red or black struggles with win conditions. Maybe Nissa's ult can be decent? Here's what I'm testing out: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/03-07-17-bant-command/
You're list seems very all in on the soft lock, which in my opinion is a mistake as (at least in the RUG version) the lock is a safety out and definitely not the go to plan.
Voice costing GW seems very greedy if you also want to run Ruse at UU and Cryptic for 1UUU. Not sure Nissa has enough targets for her 0 ability in this deck. She can't defend herself which is a bad sign for modern playability.
With only 15 creatures I would cut down to 2 Ruses at least and Voice doesn't seem to have enough synergy with the rest of the deck to warrant 4 spots considering the greedy mana cost.
The deck generally prefers creatures to planeswalkers because it can vial them in and usually wants to hold up counterspells pretty much all the time while not being able to reach 7+ lands in play reliably to just wait until the lategame to play a walker.
Have a look into 2x Vendilion Clique and 1x Restoration Angel as finishers.
My pc is down so sorry for the late reply. Yes I ran it back when DRS was a thing. We also got an advantage from it with easier spell snare/cryptic. It was a lot more "draw, go" style almost like fae.
I agree you have to have exactly what you need when you need it so I was taking advice from delver and using thought scour so I could then use snap/witness as tutors.
I looked over the bant list and I too see a few things.
Voice is your board presence? You have to protect him a few turns b4 he can take over.
He himself is a snowball effect and with the main wanting to snowball with soft lock, you can tax yourself easily.
Ruse is something else that stretch the boardstate away with a creature being needed on COST. All the versions I've built has somewhere between 12-17 dudes so they just aren't there sometimes. You could bounce a manland? But the cost to activate will end up much higher than 2.
New nissa I just dunno. I feel you need a good amount of loyalty and if you play "draw go", you leave yourself open on your opponents turn. She seems good with tron lands
Made a post in the "What Deck Should I Play" thread, looking for an advice for an ex-RUG Delver player, bored of playing Death's Shadow. Which led me here! Hopeful of finding a deck I truly enjoy
Two questions for a start.
Do you guys have any recent video coverage of the deck to get a feel of how it plays like? YouTube doesn't have much and while the 2012 championship match was cool, modern wasn't really the same. Was thinking GP footage on twitch, etc.
I think I have most of the cards already but what would an updated list look like given current meta? Mine has quite a lot of Grixis Shadow and Tron (both GR and Eldrazi), a couple UW Control, and a mix of linear stuff (Affinity, Burn, Dredge, etc).
I'm planning on taking it to GP Charlotte NC in October. Everyone is hung up on eldrazi tron and grixis death's shadow ATM.
If you want something similar with actual top8s I would go with faeries.
The heavy mistbind builds are more challenging to me than tasigur list
Ok so recently I decided to finally (after 2 years of wanting to do it) purchase my Aether vial play-set so I could play this deck. With the meta the way it is, I settled on building my own version of the deck using roughly the same numbers as the original list. I'm sure my Bant version has already been tried but I've been getting some pretty good results with it over the last few weeks.
I updated the primer with some videos RaventheLost suggested (thanks for that!).
Keep in mind that the Shouta video is obviously terribly outdated and in both other ones the deck is not piloted optimally.
Awesome to hear that Roopaloop!
@Gen0syde86
Nice to have you trying out the deck!
How has Dusk // Dawn performed?
Are 4 Snapcaster worth it with only 16 effective spells for it?
I've never seen a list with 3 Spellskite. With Bolt at an all time low, are they actually worth it over something like Selfless Spirit (even more so with only 14 creatures to protect)
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let me go back to the traverse idea for tutoring... you have 6 types and the artifact you don't want in the yard so please explain how this is viable.
18 of the lands produce/get blue so its really not that big of a deal, tbh the biggest threat is blood moon and choke.
you don't want U on turn 1, you want B for disruption. grabbing the moon or chalice b4 they can use simion spirit guide to lock YOU OUT, leaving abrupt decay the only answer. this is meta dependent obviously
turn 2 you want B/x so you can play a goyf or bluff the counter
turn 3 you want removal mana up so you can start getting in with X creature.
turn 4 you want UUUx, and with as many duel lands as i run its not a problem unless you get hit with LD, fulminator mage, karn liberated, molten rain, rain of tears, etc
eldrazi is making anti-metas hard.
i've played bug mid b4, it would almost be like you swap vials for bitterblossom and thought scour. at this point i feel its safe to delerium.
Mainboard land destruction in the form of Spreading Seas (Merfolk and UW Control) or Ghost Quarter (Hatebears/DnT decks are currently seeing an uptick because they are good against Death's Shadow).
You are correct that AV is not for this deck, but that's not because Snapcaster can recast the SV, but because this decks wants to draw certain cards at a certain time and SV helps to do exactly that while we already play 4x bad lategame topdecks in Aether Vial (adding more in AV makes our lategame a lot worse).
I play Traverse the Ulvenwald as a 1x and see it as a landdrop that has a lot of utility lategame (kinda like a manland). You can't play many copies but a 1x has been very good for me so far.
So you are telling me you have been playing the deck back when Deathrite Shaman was running around in Modern and saying it was better at that time? DRS wrecked this deck! Jund was running around with 6+ ways (DRS and Scooze) to meddle with our Snap/E-Wits and once people realized how powerful DRS was (aka pretty soon) everybody tried to cram it into their deck...
1 Breeding Pool
1 Flooded Grove
4 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
1 Lumbering Falls
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
2 Seachrome Coast
1 Temple Garden
4 As Foretold
1 Blessed Alliance
4 Cryptic Command
1 Logic Knot
4 Path to Exile
4 Remand
4 Serum Visions
1 Spell Snare
3 Eternal Witness
2 Restoration Angel
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Spell Queller
4 Tarmogoyf
maybe something like this as a starting point?
Vial allows to put threats into play while holding up counters a lot earlier than AF, the upside of it also being able to cast spells doesn't make up for that imo. If we had the time until turn 7 to establish the lock, why would we play any accelerant at all and not just more landdrops? Yes the lock is not always the go to plan but against some decks it is (think Bant Eldrazi, Dredge G1...) and having it turn 7 the earliest is simply too late.
Edit: What do you guys think about Basilisk Collar in the SB? Seems pretty good against Eldrazi decks, ok against Grixis Control and equipping a Goyf with it against Burn should be pretty much lights out. Bonus points for using it with Staticaster/Huntermaster to kill stuff.
I've been wondering about a scapeshift E-Command deck. Is that too off center for this deck? could it just be 3-4 slots that happen to win us the game with the correctly aligned lands? Is asking for turn 4 UUU and that many mountains impossible? Am I seriously proposing making this deck more expensive than it already is?
I tried to combine my RUG scapeshift and RUG command decks together maybe 2 years ago as an experiment. It sorta worked but as you may imagine there was some tension between goyf, vial and then all the ramp gubbins that you need to make scapeshift viable. Basically it was a hot mess. Not worth your time to brew. Aether vial isn't going to work in a scapeshift shell unless they print another Sakura-tribe elder type card.
The deck doesn't have the room to play creatures, interaction spells AND ramp AND 3-4x Scapeshifts. You're trying to do too many things at once.
Oh and also playing sufficient mountains would make our manabase a hot mess...
Thanks for the heads up.
I'll mess around with the BUG list for a while and see what I come to.
I was always a huge fan of Familiar's Ruse, running about 2 of them most of the time. We shall see if that holds true in today's world.
Will try it out as a 1x.
2x Breeding Pool
2x Creeping Tar Pit
2x Darkslick Shores
1x Flooded Grove
1x Forest
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Island
1x Lumbering Falls
2x Misty Rainforest
1x Overgrown Tomb
4x Polluted Delta
1x Swamp
1x Watery Grave
2x Abrupt Decay
4x Cryptic Command
4x Fatal Push
2x Mana Leak
2x Remand
Artifact (4)
4x Aether Vial
Creature (10)
3x Eternal Witness
3x Snapcaster Mage
3x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1x Vendilion Clique
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Serum Visions
2x Thoughtseize
1x Damnation
Doesn't quite feel smooth yet but I like what I have going on.
You don't own Goyfs I guess? While they are worse against Push they are way better to reliably pressure your opponents early (Combo decks, Tron, Valakut etc.) especially combined with targeted discard.
When I did get him out it was really strong and consistent value.
Goyfs aren't a problem but I was trying something different.
Voice costing GW seems very greedy if you also want to run Ruse at UU and Cryptic for 1UUU. Not sure Nissa has enough targets for her 0 ability in this deck. She can't defend herself which is a bad sign for modern playability.
With only 15 creatures I would cut down to 2 Ruses at least and Voice doesn't seem to have enough synergy with the rest of the deck to warrant 4 spots considering the greedy mana cost.
The deck generally prefers creatures to planeswalkers because it can vial them in and usually wants to hold up counterspells pretty much all the time while not being able to reach 7+ lands in play reliably to just wait until the lategame to play a walker.
Have a look into 2x Vendilion Clique and 1x Restoration Angel as finishers.
I agree you have to have exactly what you need when you need it so I was taking advice from delver and using thought scour so I could then use snap/witness as tutors.
Oh how I miss treasure cruise
Voice is your board presence? You have to protect him a few turns b4 he can take over.
He himself is a snowball effect and with the main wanting to snowball with soft lock, you can tax yourself easily.
Ruse is something else that stretch the boardstate away with a creature being needed on COST. All the versions I've built has somewhere between 12-17 dudes so they just aren't there sometimes. You could bounce a manland? But the cost to activate will end up much higher than 2.
New nissa I just dunno. I feel you need a good amount of loyalty and if you play "draw go", you leave yourself open on your opponents turn. She seems good with tron lands
Made a post in the "What Deck Should I Play" thread, looking for an advice for an ex-RUG Delver player, bored of playing Death's Shadow. Which led me here! Hopeful of finding a deck I truly enjoy
Two questions for a start.
Do you guys have any recent video coverage of the deck to get a feel of how it plays like? YouTube doesn't have much and while the 2012 championship match was cool, modern wasn't really the same. Was thinking GP footage on twitch, etc.
I think I have most of the cards already but what would an updated list look like given current meta? Mine has quite a lot of Grixis Shadow and Tron (both GR and Eldrazi), a couple UW Control, and a mix of linear stuff (Affinity, Burn, Dredge, etc).
Thanks!
If you want something similar with actual top8s I would go with faeries.
The heavy mistbind builds are more challenging to me than tasigur list
3 Eternal Witness
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Spellskite
4 Spell Queller
Instant/Sorcery:
4 Path to Exile
4 Cryptic Command
4 Remand
1 Think Twice
4 Serum Visions
2 Dusk // Dawn
Artifact:
4 Aether Vial
Lands:
4 Flooded Strand
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Breeding Pool
1 Temple Garden
1 Mystic Gate
2 Celestial Colonnade
2 Botanical Sanctum
4 Island
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Gavony Township
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Dispel
2 Negate
3 Mirran Crusader
3 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Wrath of God
2 Blessed Alliance
Just looking for some suggestions or input on what you guys think.
Keep in mind that the Shouta video is obviously terribly outdated and in both other ones the deck is not piloted optimally.
Awesome to hear that Roopaloop!
@Gen0syde86
Nice to have you trying out the deck!
How has Dusk // Dawn performed?
Are 4 Snapcaster worth it with only 16 effective spells for it?
I've never seen a list with 3 Spellskite. With Bolt at an all time low, are they actually worth it over something like Selfless Spirit (even more so with only 14 creatures to protect)