question burn players, what do you make of the 2 Naya Burn lists that 6-1 the MOCS this past weekend? Thought's on it's postion in the meta? Is this a reaction to the current tier 1 decks? I love me some Wild Nacatl so if it's time to sleeve those back up, oh baby!!
I'd consider it just for Atarka's Command. Skullcrack is great when it stops lifegain, but beyond that is generally the worst burn spell in the deck. It can't target creatures and doesn't have the extra point of damage (skullcrack doing four instead of three would be awesome, WOTC print that!). Command is at worst a skullcrack, but the pump effect has so much potential.
That's been pretty much what my creature package has been doing lately in my meta. I'm seriously thinking of replacing Monastery swiftspear for another burn spell because she rarely lives long enough for her "prowess" ability to matter.
I'm not advocating for this change in every deck/meta, but my meta is so hard on creature removal right now (Mardu Pyro, Patriot control, other burn, etc.) that I feel like she's slowing me down...
Hey guys total casual player looking at designing a modern burn deck. Eveeything I read makes a lot of sense, there are 2 cards in particular that are modern legal that I love, that don't get a look in. I am sure I just don't understand them, wondering if people could tell me why they suck...
needle drop 1 for 1 is ordinary except you also get your draw which is great in a burn deck. It also combos well with cards like swiftspear.
thermo alchemist 2 CMC for a 0/3 body that is going to regularly do 1-3 damage a turn as you empty your hand.
I think Needle Drop doesn't see play because of the casting restriction and too little damage. Ping+cantrip would be approaching Lightning Strike in this deck, on average. I say Strike instead of Bolt because it would cost 2 mana. If you assume 50% of the deck is worth 3 damage, Needle Drop would be worth 2.5 damage, but creatures aren't worth zero and that makes the 2.5 a lower bound. The problem is the restriction on casting it, and it makes it quite bad with Swift because you can't swing for 2 with Swift and Needle workout another spell dealing damage first. Needle without the restriction would easily beat Magma Jet, but not be good enough. Cantrip+2 damage would do it.
Thermo alchemist is too expensive to cast and not as good as Grim Lavamancer. They'd be competing for the same slot in the deck.
Hi,i wonder if the list on tappedout is your current one. If it's so,how do you feel playing without enchantment removal?
I don't update that list too frequently, but I am still forgoing enchantment removal and have not been sad about it, except when I see Bogles, but I assume I'd lose to Bogles regardless. I think most situations that involve enchantments against us are not frequent and some are close to unwinnable regardless, so I'm fine with cutting the removal for it. I will say that I'm not willing to play Wear//Tear because I think it's not worth playing because it deals 0 damage. I'd play DRev if I wanted enchantment removal.
Has anyone ever tested 1-2 Smuggler's Copter? Not sure 12 creatures (14 including Lavaman) is enough.
I see zero reason to play copter. No ETB, no direct damage, does not have haste. For any win you'd get off of a couple of lootings, you are going to lose two by way of wasting an entire turn playing this or drawing multiples when I would rather see two bolts.
Went 3-1 last night, good enough for store credit to snag a polluted delta (and now we can bank the extra credit!)
R1: 2-0 vs BW Eldrazi Taxes (won roll)
This one was relatively easy. A turn two thalia in the first game was destroyed trying to block a swiftspear while I had three mana out. Game two was very similar, as I was able to D-rev aether vial before he could flood the board.
R2: 0-2 vs Eldrazi Tron (lost roll)
Turn two chalice on one while on the draw...yup. Second I kept a three-land hand and proceeded to draw four lands in a row. Eh, ***** happens.
R3: 2-1 vs Thopter/Sword Tezzerator (won roll)
I have played against this guy a couple times, its basically an ensnaring bridge deck but I always play with stuff like burn that is well-positioned. Game two he was able to win off a sword/foundry loop early enough to pull back. First and third games he sorta got rolled, the latter in particular he drew poorly.
R4: 2-1 vs 8 whack (lost roll)
I got rolled in the first game as she got off to a fast start and went too wide on board. I boarded in two searing bloods and two deflecting palms to counter piledrivers and grenades which never actually came up. Each post-board game looked fairly similar, with me using my creatures to block, searing effects and lightning helix to stabilize my life total, and dropping eidolons on clear boards to force her to play sub-optimal lines and prevent any crazy plays.
I have at least one pptq this weekend, maybe two I need to see if the one's already at capacity. SB looking like such:
2 relic of progenitus
1 rest in peace
2 searing blood
2 path to exile
4 drev
2 exquisite firecraft
2 deflecting palm
And that's just my thoughts going into a general open field.
No, ensnaring bridge isn't a necessity. I rarely play it, personally.
thanks for your reply. what is it for anyway? Eldrazi decks? what do you use instead?
Bridge is for big creatures like eldrazies, delve, and tarmogoyf and the likes. Basically, it's for creature that are 4 thoughness or more (AKA creatures that our usual red removal can't deal with).
It could be good for some meta, but we can definitely live without it. I was running two for some time when my meta was seeing lots of eldrazies, now I run a pair of searing blood instead (already maxed on searing blaze)
No, ensnaring bridge isn't a necessity. I rarely play it, personally.
thanks for your reply. what is it for anyway? Eldrazi decks? what do you use instead?
Eldrazi and creature aggro stuff like Humans and Merfolk, maybe Hollow One.
I prefer to control the board with things like Blaze/Blood/Path, rather than relying an a 3CMC card that might enter the battlefield, get removed, and do nothing but cost me mana and a turn. Anger of the Gods could work in that slot against small creature aggro.
So with a few new black drain spells, is r/b getting more play now or still strictly w/r still the true blue version? Ive always had r/b/x going so im curious
I mean there's the new drain 3 gain 3, but Lightning Helix can hit creatures when needed so it is less versatile. Bump in the Night I always thought needed a flashback cost that was one less to be a really powerful option. I just don't see the scenario where a black splash is better in an open metagame.
I don't think you want to play black for the reasons above. The black spells are player targeted and do nothing more than what the R or RW spells are already doing (better).
I don't get that list from <...> can't remember, the guy that top-8ed with Ash Zealot in the main board. Close to nothing is being cast from the graveyard and I can't imagine him playing it purely to have a 2/2 first striker with haste right? Anything I'm missing or is everyone else also scratching the back of their heads?
Between UW / Jeskai Control (Snapcaster Mage), Mardu Pyromancer (Lingering Souls/Faithless Looting), Hollow One (Faithless Looting), Vengevine (Gravecrawler) and Storm (Past in Flames), a lot is actually getting cast from the grave. Probably not enough to mainboard Ash Zealot, but given the current meta I can see why someone would experiment with it. I see the cards I've mentioned get cast from the grave in almost ever match up I play.
The problem with Ash Zealot as graveyard hate is that creature based graveyard hate is rather easy to deal with and it's a bit narrow in that it only deals with things being cast from a graveyard. I'd rather just nuke their graveyard and shut off the entire strategy.
Eidolon triggers for every one of those cards listed being cast from the graveyard except for past in flames (where eidolon acts as a hate piece against storm anyways). Plus it also triggers on the snapcaster flashing back a spell, or the faithless looting or thoughtscour being used to put those cards in the bin.
Ash Zealot would certainly not be a replacement for Eidolon, just pseudo-extra copies. I think it's too narrow in its ability, and it's fragile enough that it could easily die before it deals damage because of something with flashback.
Is the trick basically to wait until you have the advantage and a good life advantage and play him to ensure you can grind out the win?
There is no expanse on how is best to play him.
I'd consider it just for Atarka's Command. Skullcrack is great when it stops lifegain, but beyond that is generally the worst burn spell in the deck. It can't target creatures and doesn't have the extra point of damage (skullcrack doing four instead of three would be awesome, WOTC print that!). Command is at worst a skullcrack, but the pump effect has so much potential.
I'm not advocating for this change in every deck/meta, but my meta is so hard on creature removal right now (Mardu Pyro, Patriot control, other burn, etc.) that I feel like she's slowing me down...
(W/B)BW Tokens(W/B) | (B/R)Rakdos Burn(B/R) | (U/R)Gift Storm(U/R)
I think Needle Drop doesn't see play because of the casting restriction and too little damage. Ping+cantrip would be approaching Lightning Strike in this deck, on average. I say Strike instead of Bolt because it would cost 2 mana. If you assume 50% of the deck is worth 3 damage, Needle Drop would be worth 2.5 damage, but creatures aren't worth zero and that makes the 2.5 a lower bound. The problem is the restriction on casting it, and it makes it quite bad with Swift because you can't swing for 2 with Swift and Needle workout another spell dealing damage first. Needle without the restriction would easily beat Magma Jet, but not be good enough. Cantrip+2 damage would do it.
Thermo alchemist is too expensive to cast and not as good as Grim Lavamancer. They'd be competing for the same slot in the deck.
I don't update that list too frequently, but I am still forgoing enchantment removal and have not been sad about it, except when I see Bogles, but I assume I'd lose to Bogles regardless. I think most situations that involve enchantments against us are not frequent and some are close to unwinnable regardless, so I'm fine with cutting the removal for it. I will say that I'm not willing to play Wear//Tear because I think it's not worth playing because it deals 0 damage. I'd play DRev if I wanted enchantment removal.
I see zero reason to play copter. No ETB, no direct damage, does not have haste. For any win you'd get off of a couple of lootings, you are going to lose two by way of wasting an entire turn playing this or drawing multiples when I would rather see two bolts.
R1: 2-0 vs BW Eldrazi Taxes (won roll)
This one was relatively easy. A turn two thalia in the first game was destroyed trying to block a swiftspear while I had three mana out. Game two was very similar, as I was able to D-rev aether vial before he could flood the board.
R2: 0-2 vs Eldrazi Tron (lost roll)
Turn two chalice on one while on the draw...yup. Second I kept a three-land hand and proceeded to draw four lands in a row. Eh, ***** happens.
R3: 2-1 vs Thopter/Sword Tezzerator (won roll)
I have played against this guy a couple times, its basically an ensnaring bridge deck but I always play with stuff like burn that is well-positioned. Game two he was able to win off a sword/foundry loop early enough to pull back. First and third games he sorta got rolled, the latter in particular he drew poorly.
R4: 2-1 vs 8 whack (lost roll)
I got rolled in the first game as she got off to a fast start and went too wide on board. I boarded in two searing bloods and two deflecting palms to counter piledrivers and grenades which never actually came up. Each post-board game looked fairly similar, with me using my creatures to block, searing effects and lightning helix to stabilize my life total, and dropping eidolons on clear boards to force her to play sub-optimal lines and prevent any crazy plays.
I have at least one pptq this weekend, maybe two I need to see if the one's already at capacity. SB looking like such:
2 relic of progenitus
1 rest in peace
2 searing blood
2 path to exile
4 drev
2 exquisite firecraft
2 deflecting palm
And that's just my thoughts going into a general open field.
thanks for your reply. what is it for anyway? Eldrazi decks? what do you use instead?
It could be good for some meta, but we can definitely live without it. I was running two for some time when my meta was seeing lots of eldrazies, now I run a pair of searing blood instead (already maxed on searing blaze)
(W/B)BW Tokens(W/B) | (B/R)Rakdos Burn(B/R) | (U/R)Gift Storm(U/R)
Eldrazi and creature aggro stuff like Humans and Merfolk, maybe Hollow One.
I prefer to control the board with things like Blaze/Blood/Path, rather than relying an a 3CMC card that might enter the battlefield, get removed, and do nothing but cost me mana and a turn. Anger of the Gods could work in that slot against small creature aggro.
I don't get that list from <...> can't remember, the guy that top-8ed with Ash Zealot in the main board. Close to nothing is being cast from the graveyard and I can't imagine him playing it purely to have a 2/2 first striker with haste right? Anything I'm missing or is everyone else also scratching the back of their heads?
GWUBRDraft my Old Border Nostalgia Cube! and/or The Little Pauper Cube That Could!RBUWG
Modern:WDeath & TaxesW | RUGRUG DelverRUG