Your creature matchups can suffer game 1, it's true (though not more than Naya). That's why I'd recommend Boros in an aggro meta. Post board, you cut the black cards for the Blazes, the Paths, and the last Skullcrack. With the diversity of Modern and BBE/JTMS slowing the format even more, I strongly argue that it's worth it in a general meta.
I already tested mardu, the main problem I thought is the mana base that hurts so much, also we need 12 fetchs. I have only 8. It also felt like not concluant for me compared to Boros. By playing Rakdos, I can build the exact same mana base than for Boros, so I have no problems. In fact, there is an another upside for me, to go max 18 lands with 30 drop-1 instead of 20. The downside is the current price of dual lands, on paper as on mtgo, expensive.
Until now, I have faced some tiers 1 and 2 decks, it is indeed faster than Boros ! Most spels can not target creatures but the decks compensate that factor to kill quickly your opponent. I guess that is a good deal Gonti's machinations is tricky yes, it is not a fast card and I often let it to accumulate counters and crack it the last moment. It is like a Helix. Contaminated ground is so strong, I am suprised. You private one or two color, and even they are black, if they tap they take 2. #Feelsbadbro Molten rain. I would compare this last effect as an another Eidolon. Grim lavamancer maindeck are discutable I think. Maybe one more Murderous cut as it acts like Path to exile.
Boros charm to deal 4 damages and Path to exile in sideboard are the main reasons to keep white at your opinion, isn't it ? As Gonti can acts as a Helix. I guess I feel a bit too exited to have hindsight. I like to play out-meta and competitive =)
Glad to hear you're enjoying it! Yeah, with Mardu you really do need 12 fetches. If you're on a budget right now, I haven't tested Rakdos myself..you could run Relic if you feel you need graveyard hate, and you could try maybe Terminate in place of Path, although it doesn't hit Firewalker. I remember you're splashing green for Revelry; I might suggest trying to get four more fetches when and if you can, even if you decide to stay Rakdos+g. Then you'll have the tools to build whatever you want.
Hey guys, been a while for me, I don't really want to go through 38 pages of threads to see if things have been covered extensively so I apologize if I am asking something that's already been covered in advance.
That said, has anyone tested with Bomat Courier? It seems probably not great in the MD, but theoretically seems pretty solid out of the board vs decks that want to out CA us like traditional Jeskai lists.
I don't recall anyone playing Bomat Courier, but I don't personally think it's worth it. I think it's Raging Goblin with different flavor text. It doesn't have evasion, and you're suggesting it against a list that is loaded with removal (Path, Bolt, and Helix are all in Jeskai). It will either be a Raging Goblin and die at a time when you don't have open mana to re-fill your hand or you have more cards in hand than under Bomat, neither of which is good. It won't live long against Jeskai and it's not going to do much of anything late when they're playing Snap and killing it.
You don't really need to out card-advantage a Jeskai list. Your draws are better than theirs and you have more burn than they have counters. All you need to do is pick the right spots to fight, and you'll often come out on top.
How are you guys boarding against red black hollow one?
I played it tonight. They are potentially faster than us. So I took the eidolons out on the draw.
I brought in searing blood and two copies of path to exile. I also brought in two Relic.
Relic feels wrong. It's a race. If you draw relic too late, it's basically just to cycle it. And in a race investing two manna to draw a card don't work. Path seemed Ok. searing blood also seemed OK. They have Phoenix and blood ghast.
I don't recall anyone playing Bomat Courier, but I don't personally think it's worth it. I think it's Raging Goblin with different flavor text. It doesn't have evasion, and you're suggesting it against a list that is loaded with removal (Path, Bolt, and Helix are all in Jeskai). It will either be a Raging Goblin and die at a time when you don't have open mana to re-fill your hand or you have more cards in hand than under Bomat, neither of which is good. It won't live long against Jeskai and it's not going to do much of anything late when they're playing Snap and killing it.
You don't really need to out card-advantage a Jeskai list. Your draws are better than theirs and you have more burn than they have counters. All you need to do is pick the right spots to fight, and you'll often come out on top.
Thanks for the input. Obviously I don't intend to play it in those exact situations; I was merely using the jeskai deck as a style example. They are probably too overloaded with removal as you point out to run the courier, but perhaps it could make a pretty good slot vs some more tempo oriented decks; but perhaps I am reaching a bit too much.
j192: I run three Rest in Peace's in my board so that's plan one. Path or Chains is my next add and any Searing effects. Even if the creatures are coming back, extra damage to the face and slowing a creature's attack by a turn can often help win the race.
All that being said, I'm reallying coming to loath Burning Inquiry. The best laid plans and all of that...
How are you guys boarding against red black hollow one?
I played it tonight. They are potentially faster than us. So I took the eidolons out on the draw.
I brought in searing blood and two copies of path to exile. I also brought in two Relic.
Relic feels wrong. It's a race. If you draw relic too late, it's basically just to cycle it. And in a race investing two manna to draw a card don't work. Path seemed Ok. searing blood also seemed OK. They have Phoenix and blood ghast.
Thoughts?
I too played against it once. Honestly, I boarded in Path to Exile and it didn't exactly feel right. I'm considering not sideboarding anything against them. It seems weird, but I think we just need to race. The one time I played against it I crushed my opponent racing, but I don't think one game is enough to identify how good the matchup is, and I may have been slightly lucky in my draws.:)
Destructive Revelry can kill Hollow One, but that's about it. Path to Exile is probably the only viable sideboard option (you're right about graveyard hate being useless against them), but I don't know what to take out. Some of the only cards Searing Blood takes care of will come right back from the graveyard, often with haste.
As I see myself, and according to 'January 2018 opposing hate analysis' the Collective brutality is the top sideboard burn hate in the current meta.
Also, due to BBE unban, amount of JUND decks are increasing each day.
So I made a conclusion, that 3x sideboad Guerrilla Tactics is the solid choice at least for now. It's awesome not only against Liliana and Brutality, but against any drazies who want beat as with a Reality Smasher as well.
what you think?
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I don't think guerrilla tactics is going to work out the way you want it to. Also, Jund isn't a substantially difficult matchup to handle, especially with BBE crowding out things like Huntmaster that are very damaging to Burn.
BBE comes down at a time when your hand is almost empty, so even flipping Liliana barely matters to you. Prioritize getting rid of sorceries so that you can cast your last few instants in response to discard.
As far as prevalence of CB, I'll be posting February's numbers tomorrow-ish.
BBE isnt an issue. BBE is the reason why there is so much Jund players nowadays.
Speaking of BGx, till now JUNK was strictly better. But after crazy ***** esacped the jail, all that JUNK guys reassembles their deck into Jund.
You should be able to beat Jund with your eyes closed. I would say it's quite possibly the most lopsided winning percentage I currently have with Burn. It's a weird MU in that it always seems like it's 50/50 by how the games play out, bit I have had a seriously skewed winning % (like 80%+) vs them. I tend to SB nothing really. If I'm playing B and Tasigur (not something I've done for a while) I might bring him in
Thank you Creevian_Legacy. I am playing for 6 hours now. I lose much less than when I am playing Boros in fact. I am still surprised. Usually, game 1 is so fast for any opponent. I feel like Rakdos is essentially the Boros at one less mana, with less lands. Game 2, Contaminated ground, even more combined with Eidolon, locks and ends the game since turn 2. Fun fact, as I was used to play Thalia death and taxes in commander, I re-find it in black Grin
I think I am a bit weaker to creature-based deck that does not die on searing effects. Murderous cut is not an early removal, so I must fight differently a Tarmogoyf, as well as eldrazi, tron, etc. Terminate costs red-black, which is quite terrible. I think that Go for the throat is better, because it kills everything except Wurmcoil and Ulamog. Self-inflicted wound might be the best removal we want as it deals damages, but it targets Elves, GW decks, Goyfs decks (abzan) maybe ? I'm not sure. What is your opinion, would you put in SIW against abzan or any goyfs decks ?
To fight graveyard, Nihil spellbomb > = Relic of progenitus, isn't it, as they are the same card. Relic has more react against Goyfs than Nihil that fill well Grim lavamancer. Rakdos charm is an alternative but again, its red-black cost hurts. Perhaps I can just cut graveyard answers and go this way:
4 Drev, 4 Cont, 2 Sblood, 3 Go for the throat, 2 Self-inflicted wound
I am also testing with 1 Ramunap ruins. I know you are not fan of this card as I am, I find it has great synergy with Gonti's machinations because we can just ping us to fuel energy if needed, I know that may be anecdotical. Also we have 5 cards resilient: Bump in the night's flashback that costs 6 manas, and this ruins that costs 5.
I want up to 3 lands in field, so that's fine about fetchs/path exile, I have 5 targets (with 2 mountains) for 8 fetchs. It is sometimes relevant to find last damages by a draw land, then ruins' damages can not be answered by counterspell.
For the mulligan, I keep more often a hand with one land if it is filled by Guide and several 1-drop, than I did on Boros.
Talking about fetchs Creevian_Legacy, I think Mardu is weaker for the reason of mana's damages, and the curve upped. Rakdos is the exact copy of Boros, meaning that it costs anything to add 1 Stomping grounds for Drev in sideboard, like Boros already does. Also at 18 lands, playing more than 8 fetchs hurts a lot as we can not have many basic mountains. If fastlands are better because of no damage taken, so we need the 4-of instead of a 9th or 10th fetch.
Am I right on my argues ?
You're right in that midrange creature decks are going to be a weakness for you; in fact, Path is the main reason that I think White is so important (aside from enchantment hate).Without White, Go for the Throat might be a good call, if only to get rid of Kor Firewalker and Master of the Waves. You won't be able to bring it in versus Affinity, though, where you could bring in Terminate. Murderous Cut is probably fine as a one-of, but aside from that you'll have to make some choices. I would probably try Go for the Throat and see how often artifact creatures bite me.
I don't love Self-Inflicted Wound only because, between delve creatures, artifact creatures, Eldrazi, etc, we have a lot of fatties that aren't white or green that need killing. If they were in my board already I would bring them into BGx matchups, but I think it's a bit more narrow than Burn can afford.
Good call on Nihil Spellbomb; totally forgot about that card. I think it would be better than Relic, yeah. However, don't discount Rakdos Charm. I don't run any because I'm playing white, so I get Rest in Peace and Path to Exile. But if you run Go for the Throat, Rakdos Charm can be brought in against Affinity. It can also be instant speed graveyard hate against Snapcaster Mage and Dredge. Also, against any go-wide deck like Elves, Humans, and Merfolk it could legitimately be a Boros Charm or better. One time when I used to run it was nine damage against BW Tokens. It's definitely an undervalued card.
Also, a slight word of warning: Searing Blaze and Gonti's Machinations work pretty hard against each other. When I've tried the two of them together, I found I couldn't decide whether it was better to crack a fetch for an energy counter, or leave it uncracked for landfall. I might recommend putting the Blazes in the board if you can, especially given the diverse nature of Modern. It's not the auto-kill spell it used to be.
Assuming I was playing a Rakdos+g list with your fetchland requirement, I think this is what I would run, and tweak as needed:
You should be able to beat Jund with your eyes closed. I would say it's quite possibly the most lopsided winning percentage I currently have with Burn. It's a weird MU in that it always seems like it's 50/50 by how the games play out, bit I have had a seriously skewed winning % (like 80%+) vs them. I tend to SB nothing really. If I'm playing B and Tasigur (not something I've done for a while) I might bring him in
I don't think I'm that lopsided against it all time, but I think I'm something like 60% against Jund in 100 games (have to check my spreadsheet later). Jund can be built with heavy lifegain and then you're screwed, but they usually don't do that because it makes them weaker elsewhere.
I think them playing BBE is a good thing for us because it means no Huntmaster and no Kalitas. Goyf decks generally aren't a problem for Burn.
Hi burn players!
I‘m a long time silent reader, but I felt like now is the time to join the discussion.
I am actually also team Rakdos (with green in the side) and i think that the speed you gain is relevant.
Regarding the black removal in the side: I run a 2/1 split between Fatal Push and Terminate at the moment, it works quite well.
Contaminated ground is so strong, I am suprised. You private one or two color, and even they are black, if they tap they take 2. #Feelsbadbro
I am not sold on this card. Please convince me why it is so good
Another card I would love to hear opinions about is Forked Bolt. It is my fun-of card right now.
Welcome to the forum!
I'm of the opinion that Burn doesn't really need land destruction, because we tend to be favored against three-color decks and conventional Tron. But, I can see the appeal of the card. Two mana to turn a land into a basic swamp is pretty strong, and the fact that they can still tap it if need be is helped by costing them two life. If they tap twice, it's a Boros Charm. It's a punisher card, true, but no matter what it has the primary effect of disabling a troublesome land. The punisher only comes in if they want one black mana from it or not.
I am dubitative. If you side Rakdos charm that is for its last effect, otherwise I is a bad card, right ? But this charm is quite bad against affinity, because he can just sac every creatures on his Ravager. Then there is Elf and human deck that go wide in the current metagame, no more. Go for the throat or Fatal push, the first one costs less money
Thank you for this explanation about SBlaze and Gonti. I have also seen, but I would not imagine to totally cut Blaze from main deck Grim lavamancer would be the one because it is not that relevant actually I think, isn't it ? I am wondering if it still deserves the slots.
Why do you dislike Contaminated ground ? I found it very great on my tests.
For Self-inflicted wound, you side in that against white/green creatures. So with your argue, do you mean that SBlaze is enough, or Sblood might be better ? Exquisite firecraft may be considered, as number of blue control decks actually. I have not positive win% against Jace, because when it is on the field, that is already game over.
I also would to give a shot to Kari Zev's expertise because I'm done of unwinnable MU against Ponza, Livind end, then other Tron, big goyfs, hollow one, etc.
Affinity, there is no answers to the Ravager ? you kill something else, he grows. You kill it, he boosts an another creature. If it is a champion, you loose.
Ponza, really I'm done. On the draw I feel like it is almost 100% lost. On the play you can play. Face to 100 regain life, in addition to the lock. Contaminated ground locks him on the play (it destroys more a utopia), serves at nothing on the draw. Same thing about Destructive revelry. They are more handicapant cards face to Blood moon and Trinisphere, now fetched by BBElf that, in my opinion, will definy the Modern.
Oh right, I was wondering me about why 19 lands, that is because you add 3 Shard volley. Otherwise it is too much.
Folks are masturbing themself on the current price of Blackcleave cliffs. 30 to 50 dollars for one card, seriously. I give a shot to Sulfurous springs that has synergy with Machinations to fuel energy counter.
I didn't realize Cliffs cost so much. At that point, I'd just tell you to buy fetches, haha. Sulfurous springs is a fine replacement.
I actually really don't like Blaze in the main deck. After I wrote you, I decided to test it again because I'd love to restrict my white to just the sideboard. But, I can't justify it. It's dead too often now. Maybe it's a metagame or personal preference thing.
I'm with you on Lavamancer. To be honest, I don't love the card in Burn. He takes three turns to be worth his cost, same as Raging Goblin. I was just trying to help you hit 60 cards with my list. If you're intent on having Blaze in the main deck, maybe drop the Lavamancers, a Shard Volley, and move a Skullcrack to the sideboard. Then you'd have three slots for Contaminated Ground. Same with 19 lands. I don't think there's too much of a difference between 18 and 19, I was trying to get you to 60. If you want to go down to 18 lands, keep that Skullcrack in the mainboard, and add another sideboard card, go for it.
Ravager is tough. Don't forget that Modular targets--you can kill the creature Ravager targets in response to it getting the counters. Blow up Ravager with Revelry or Rakdos Charm, and Bolt the other creature. But, that's not always doable, and sometimes Ravager just wins them the game. It'll happen, nothing to stress over.
Absolutely, but those tend to be outlier builds. Traditional Jund builds tend to be close to auto wins for me. But like I said, they always seem like a slog, but tend to come out in my favor a lot more often than most other decks.
I just checked and I'm 66-53 in games against Jund and 43-25 in matches with a 58.1% match win rate.
Those outlier builds spent a bit of time as more mainstream builds, but you don't see it so much these days. Listening to Mike Flores talk about his performance on Top Level podcast, he also tends to run over "Goyf decks".
Glad to hear you're enjoying it! Yeah, with Mardu you really do need 12 fetches. If you're on a budget right now, I haven't tested Rakdos myself..you could run Relic if you feel you need graveyard hate, and you could try maybe Terminate in place of Path, although it doesn't hit Firewalker. I remember you're splashing green for Revelry; I might suggest trying to get four more fetches when and if you can, even if you decide to stay Rakdos+g. Then you'll have the tools to build whatever you want.
That said, has anyone tested with Bomat Courier? It seems probably not great in the MD, but theoretically seems pretty solid out of the board vs decks that want to out CA us like traditional Jeskai lists.
You don't really need to out card-advantage a Jeskai list. Your draws are better than theirs and you have more burn than they have counters. All you need to do is pick the right spots to fight, and you'll often come out on top.
I played it tonight. They are potentially faster than us. So I took the eidolons out on the draw.
I brought in searing blood and two copies of path to exile. I also brought in two Relic.
Relic feels wrong. It's a race. If you draw relic too late, it's basically just to cycle it. And in a race investing two manna to draw a card don't work. Path seemed Ok. searing blood also seemed OK. They have Phoenix and blood ghast.
Thoughts?
Thanks for the input. Obviously I don't intend to play it in those exact situations; I was merely using the jeskai deck as a style example. They are probably too overloaded with removal as you point out to run the courier, but perhaps it could make a pretty good slot vs some more tempo oriented decks; but perhaps I am reaching a bit too much.
All that being said, I'm reallying coming to loath Burning Inquiry. The best laid plans and all of that...
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I too played against it once. Honestly, I boarded in Path to Exile and it didn't exactly feel right. I'm considering not sideboarding anything against them. It seems weird, but I think we just need to race. The one time I played against it I crushed my opponent racing, but I don't think one game is enough to identify how good the matchup is, and I may have been slightly lucky in my draws.:)
Destructive Revelry can kill Hollow One, but that's about it. Path to Exile is probably the only viable sideboard option (you're right about graveyard hate being useless against them), but I don't know what to take out. Some of the only cards Searing Blood takes care of will come right back from the graveyard, often with haste.
As I see myself, and according to 'January 2018 opposing hate analysis' the Collective brutality is the top sideboard burn hate in the current meta.
Also, due to BBE unban, amount of JUND decks are increasing each day.
So I made a conclusion, that 3x sideboad Guerrilla Tactics is the solid choice at least for now. It's awesome not only against Liliana and Brutality, but against any drazies who want beat as with a Reality Smasher as well.
what you think?
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BBE comes down at a time when your hand is almost empty, so even flipping Liliana barely matters to you. Prioritize getting rid of sorceries so that you can cast your last few instants in response to discard.
As far as prevalence of CB, I'll be posting February's numbers tomorrow-ish.
Speaking of BGx, till now JUNK was strictly better. But after crazy ***** esacped the jail, all that JUNK guys reassembles their deck into Jund.
DnT! I'm a power-load
DnT! Watch me Explode
You're right in that midrange creature decks are going to be a weakness for you; in fact, Path is the main reason that I think White is so important (aside from enchantment hate).Without White, Go for the Throat might be a good call, if only to get rid of Kor Firewalker and Master of the Waves. You won't be able to bring it in versus Affinity, though, where you could bring in Terminate. Murderous Cut is probably fine as a one-of, but aside from that you'll have to make some choices. I would probably try Go for the Throat and see how often artifact creatures bite me.
I don't love Self-Inflicted Wound only because, between delve creatures, artifact creatures, Eldrazi, etc, we have a lot of fatties that aren't white or green that need killing. If they were in my board already I would bring them into BGx matchups, but I think it's a bit more narrow than Burn can afford.
Good call on Nihil Spellbomb; totally forgot about that card. I think it would be better than Relic, yeah. However, don't discount Rakdos Charm. I don't run any because I'm playing white, so I get Rest in Peace and Path to Exile. But if you run Go for the Throat, Rakdos Charm can be brought in against Affinity. It can also be instant speed graveyard hate against Snapcaster Mage and Dredge. Also, against any go-wide deck like Elves, Humans, and Merfolk it could legitimately be a Boros Charm or better. One time when I used to run it was nine damage against BW Tokens. It's definitely an undervalued card.
Also, a slight word of warning: Searing Blaze and Gonti's Machinations work pretty hard against each other. When I've tried the two of them together, I found I couldn't decide whether it was better to crack a fetch for an energy counter, or leave it uncracked for landfall. I might recommend putting the Blazes in the board if you can, especially given the diverse nature of Modern. It's not the auto-kill spell it used to be.
Assuming I was playing a Rakdos+g list with your fetchland requirement, I think this is what I would run, and tweak as needed:
8x Fetches
3x Blood Crypt
2x Stomping Ground
2x Mountain
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
Creatures
4x Goblin Guide
4x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Eidolon of the Great Revel
2x Grim Lavamancer
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lava Spike
4x Rift Bolt
4x Bump in the Night
4x Gonti's Machinations
3x Shard Volley
4x Skullcrack
4x Searing Blaze
3x Go for the Throat
3x Rakdos Charm
3x Destructive Revelry
2x Atarka's Command
I don't think I'm that lopsided against it all time, but I think I'm something like 60% against Jund in 100 games (have to check my spreadsheet later). Jund can be built with heavy lifegain and then you're screwed, but they usually don't do that because it makes them weaker elsewhere.
I think them playing BBE is a good thing for us because it means no Huntmaster and no Kalitas. Goyf decks generally aren't a problem for Burn.
Welcome to the forum!
I'm of the opinion that Burn doesn't really need land destruction, because we tend to be favored against three-color decks and conventional Tron. But, I can see the appeal of the card. Two mana to turn a land into a basic swamp is pretty strong, and the fact that they can still tap it if need be is helped by costing them two life. If they tap twice, it's a Boros Charm. It's a punisher card, true, but no matter what it has the primary effect of disabling a troublesome land. The punisher only comes in if they want one black mana from it or not.
I didn't realize Cliffs cost so much. At that point, I'd just tell you to buy fetches, haha. Sulfurous springs is a fine replacement.
I actually really don't like Blaze in the main deck. After I wrote you, I decided to test it again because I'd love to restrict my white to just the sideboard. But, I can't justify it. It's dead too often now. Maybe it's a metagame or personal preference thing.
I'm with you on Lavamancer. To be honest, I don't love the card in Burn. He takes three turns to be worth his cost, same as Raging Goblin. I was just trying to help you hit 60 cards with my list. If you're intent on having Blaze in the main deck, maybe drop the Lavamancers, a Shard Volley, and move a Skullcrack to the sideboard. Then you'd have three slots for Contaminated Ground. Same with 19 lands. I don't think there's too much of a difference between 18 and 19, I was trying to get you to 60. If you want to go down to 18 lands, keep that Skullcrack in the mainboard, and add another sideboard card, go for it.
Ravager is tough. Don't forget that Modular targets--you can kill the creature Ravager targets in response to it getting the counters. Blow up Ravager with Revelry or Rakdos Charm, and Bolt the other creature. But, that's not always doable, and sometimes Ravager just wins them the game. It'll happen, nothing to stress over.
Those outlier builds spent a bit of time as more mainstream builds, but you don't see it so much these days. Listening to Mike Flores talk about his performance on Top Level podcast, he also tends to run over "Goyf decks".