This is going to me my first attempt at an after tournament report, so please bear with me. I will probably not remember all of the details, but Im going to try and put as much information out as I can. 5 rounds with cut to Top 8. On to the report!
Round 1-Mono Green Stompy
First matchup of the night was against Mono-Green Stompy. Lately this match has been a strange one for me, because it's like a mirror, but not quite. Game 1 I wasn't fast enough and he used Aspect of Hydra on his unblocked creature for huge damage to finish the game. Game 2 I ran into the same problems, but managed to open aggressively, and got him down to 5 life. He swung for 14 on the next turn to kill me. I sided in 2 Path to Exile to try and get rid of his bigger stuff but it wasn't working. 0-1
Round 2-Affinity
Second match was against Affinity. First game went to time. The game took almost 45 minutes because of Vault Skirge and lifelink. I finally got enough in my grave and his grave to pump a Scavenging Ooze to 10/10! I managed to finish him off with 2 Oozes for a total of 14 damage. Next game was in time, and it ended up in a draw, so I took the round. 1-1
Round 3-Ad Nauseam
Third round brought me up against Ad Nauseum. This is one of my hardest matchups, and he got both games withing 3 turns. I never saw any of my SB cards in the second game. I sided in Teeg, Pithing Needle, and Manglehorn. I guess the only card in that deck that gets hit by Pithing Needle is Lightning Storm. 1-2.
Round 4
No game here. My opponent had to leave and dropped. Free win! 2-2.
Round 5-Aetherworks Marvel
This deck was interesting. It ran Aetherworks Marvel and used it to bring out giant beaters like Emrakul and Ulamog. I lost against it last week, but I got my revenge this week. First game was good. I opened decent, and managed to get him down to 9 life versus my 19 life. He hit Ulamog, and removed 2 creatures, on the next turn he activated Aetherworks and hit an Emrakul. Game over. Game 2 I sided in Teeg, Pithing Needle, and Manglehorn to try and disrupt hist combo. I got Teeg out very early and used Pithing Needle to shut down his combo pieces. Game 3 I kept in the hate and once again got Teeg out early. Summoned a Manglehorn to kill his Woodweaver's Puzzleknot. amd beat him down with Strangleroot Geist and Narnam Renegade. 3-2
Top 8- U/R Gifts Storm
This has always been a bit challenging to me, but I lost this match because I was not fast enough. Dromoka's Command and Path to Exile put in work as well as Dryad Militant. He managed to combo off on turn 6. Game 2 I made this mistake of not siding in Teeg (it was about 11PM by this point, pretty tired.) I open with Militant and slow him down pretty good, but he managed to kill it and hit an Empty the Warrens for 16 goblins to my board of 2 creatures.
All in all, it was a pretty decent night. I'm pretty sure I could have made better SB choices, and I probably should have paid more attention in Top 8. This is my second top in a row, so I know this deck can win. It seems to be a little bit slow compared to other decks, but I am not sure on how to make it any faster. Thanks for reading!
Hey, I'm back for a little bit!
I'm currently moving, so I might not be able to edit the primer a lot in the coming week.
It's great to see that the thread is so active!
@mcsavage702:
Great tournament report, and congrats on the results!
A couple of things: It might be useful if you post your list as well, or put your list in your signature. That way we can help more, especially with making it faster. Can you also write which cards you've sided out? Other than that, you put a lot of information in there and you write well. It's a blast to read results like this!
I've also been thinking about adding a FAQ-like section in the primer. The reason for that being that there are some questions/debate between two cards that I can't put anywhere else. Examples for this: Dungrove Elder vs Rhonas the Indomitable, how many nonbasics do I run when playing Dungrove Elder, general debate about removal (Dismember/Prey Upon/Nature's Way(/Mutant's Prey? We haven't talked about this card yet and I think it needs to be included in the primer whatsoever)), how good is Narnam Renegade with X fetches, which cards do I play first, how good is Rancor and how do I play it, things like that. Note that these are just from the top of my head, and might not be quality questions, but you know what I mean with this.
I've also been thinking about a how-to-play section, especially for beginners who just picked up this deck. Which hands to keep and when to mulligan, which creatures get priority over others, leaving mana open for Vines of Vastwood, when to play Rancor and on which creature, when to go all in and when to wait, when to play Treetop Village, etc.
Again, these are just ideas, and I'd love to hear your response to this!
well...I've been thinking of doing something kinda stupid recently with my more dorks list, and I've been considering doing to the standard list as well.
I've been thinking of a pair of Lightning Greaves main. I mean swiftfoot boots allow you to target your own cards but the price in mana with greaves at 0 seems like a better option especially when on turn 3 you can attack with baloth or anything else that comes on to the board. As a bonus too, either they still cant remove them unless they do it on the attach which will bait out removal they would be using shortly anyway.
@MagicYio Mutant's Prey only belongs in a counters list. It's too unreliable otherwise. Not only do you need to have a creature in the field, but it has to have a +1/+1 counter on it and be big enough to kill the target. Leatherback Baloths are the best target for fight mechanics and in the standard Stompy you'll never have a counter on them.
Thinking about Nature's Way more, I suspect it gained traction when players started removing Baloths and Dungrove Elders from their list and playing lower to the ground with more one and two drops. When everyone was running Baloths and Elders, Prey Upon was used frequently.
@EonAon
If you want haste, I suspect you'd have better luck running Boggart Ram-Gang. I currently run 3 of them in my deck for same-turn damage. On the other hand, Lightning Greaves works on Avatar of the Resolute, so it might be worth testing.
So it’s a 3/4 for 3 with 2 devotion, which is pretty close to passable stats for our purpose anyway. But can be cashed in for a Naturalize if needed. A lot of talk in the old thread was about sideboard options for artifact and enchantment threats - here’s one, and its not as inefficient as a beater as, say, Manglehorn is.
Eh its alright but I'd actually prefer something smaller for that ability actually. Good power to CC ratio but the ability isn't something I'd want on that kinda body since your more going to want to keep said body rather than chuck it. That and if you need that ability NOW, its hard to grab 4cc than 3cc or lower like on pridemage.
First of all, amicdeep you're amazing! Thanks for all the info, for the Xth time!
Secondly, I also don't think the Brontodon is good enough. At least Manglehorn stays in play, and doesn't cost 4 mana or 3 mana and 2 turns. If you really want removal, in a fast deck like this, you most likely want it to be fast. The only big reason people play Manglehorn is to circumvent Chalice of the Void (is that right? Or do people also play it mainly for the tapped ability?), and if you don't need that, then I personally prefer to play Natural State for the 1 mana cost which keeps our tempo up, or Unravel the Aether to get rid of big things like Hollow One and Wurmcoil Engine. I already find Manglehorn expensive, and to have a 3-drop that also needs an extra mana and needs to be sacrificed doesn't look like the best card for us.
This is a good point. The dinosaur can be a mainboard option, or a sideboard card against tron lists and the like where you might need removal in certain situations, but if artifact removal is not what you need, you still have a good body. I say this because sometimes when playing, I'm not sure of whether or not to board in artifact removal, so I just don't bring in removal. In this case, I can bring in brontosaur without being worried about having a dead card.
That being said, I'd much rather have Manglehorn in the sideboard against faster decks like Affinity, where we definitely could not wait until turn 4 just to kill one artifact.
Another point to bring is that if you're not sure if your opponent is going to bring a problematic card for you (Ensnaring Bridge is an auto-lose), why not just bring in Beast Within? You can destroy your own land, or you own Strangleroot Geist to get the 3/3 body, which is almost as good, or you can destroy ANY permanent at INSTANT SPEED.
Beast Within seems like a completely different card than Brontosaur, but it's actually just a better version of the card in most situations.
I just saw that card on my FB feed. It looks interesting. The ability to gain hand advantage is pretty strong with the drawing effect, and pumping up a creature never hurts, plus you can generate loyalty counters which makes all of those things easier. I might have to pick a few up and test them out.
I also have the SB/playing guide from the original thread that amic typed up for me. I will post it here for everyone, and you can edit it as needed. I pretty much follow this guide when siding in and out.
Ok geral rules for playing first the land base. In your opening hand count the fetches. The fetch the shock with the last fetch. (Unless otherwise needed). Always fetch a shock as drawing a dromars and a path off the top with no white source can be really frustrating.
Leave the fetches on the feild until you have to sac them (for value) weather it's to counter a removal or trigger a narnam or in your oponets endstep any are fine just don't trigger for no reason as your opponent can take advantage with instant speed removal after you fetch but before you get your land.
Creatures
You want at least 2 one drops in opening hand e one is the ideal turn one play followed by 2 one drops turn 2
Unless you have an e one on the feild that will evolve or an avatar play creatures in second main phase. Not first. As this decks has alot of ways to respond to removeal (bigger nastyer blockers). Unless you're in a race use your pump and hexproof defensively. (Only when you need to touch a goyf or against removal) remember if your carful you can bait removal and play to pump spells on the same creature on the stack) you swing with e one it's unblocked you pump with blossoming defence they try to remove you play a vines ect.
Ok SB
Eldrazi tron (it's a hard matchup you have to out race and hate them out) out rampagers, dryads, blossoming defence 2 e ones, Rancor. In gaddock teeg, path, mangle horn, Pithing needle, mandrill, Thrun.
There are three thing that kill us in this matchup
chalice (to negate rase your mana cuvre and play less late game one cost spells, mangle horn (its very hard to chalice to stop it) gaddock teeg
Ballista collur combo. Play vines to stop equip. And Pithing needle to stop ballista or coller. This is the primary use of needle
Endbringer. kill it or needle it
Karn, needle and combat pump
Matter reshaped, path
All to dust , gaddock teeg.
Basically play a teeg as early as possible (hopefully before they play a chalice for one) and keep him alive!
Storm
Out rampager, finks, mandrils
In teeg, dryad.
Get any hate down early (teeg dryad or scooze)
Dryad is best as it keeps there Gy empty and stopes them really comboing off
Teeg stops gifts and past on flames again stoping the combo
Scooze just picks off the rituals from the Gy and anything else than manages to get in.
Other good plays (most storm players will only of to the number requered to kill you dromars can negate one of the points of damage. ) Otherwise lots of pressure and agressive play Smile
Burn
out dryad, rampager (although it's bolt proof it's can be horrific if your opornt has edolon down).
In path, mandrills, finks.
This is were dromars comes into its own. With this you can negate a burn spell (either anger or Searing Blaze are best targets) and remove a creature or get one of yours outside of burn reach. just watch out for skull crack.
Just use your fetch and shock consevative way.
Merfolk
Out rampager, Dryad, mandrills, finks 1 defence
In choke, Pithing needles, one mangle horn , 2 path
Simple put you land a needle for vial or mutavault, or a choke down early you win. They can be out raced but it's hard if you haven't landed either of these. Remove the lord's intelligently and you should be fine
Ad nausum
Out mandrills and Fink's
In teeg
First if you land teeg you win the carnt cast ad nausum
Scoundly option you race then you use dromars to get rid of Phyrexian Unlife once they have gone to 0 life
Dromars also for countering lightning storm.
Just be aware of Pact of Negation
If this is a common match up I would add another dromars to SB and 2 Guttural response.
I will have another tournament report for everyone on Friday. I really appreciate the support you guys are giving me with this deck.
Burn
out dryad, rampager (although it's bolt proof it's can be horrific if your opornt has edolon down).
In path, mandrills, finks.
This is were dromars comes into its own. With this you can negate a burn spell (either anger or Searing Blaze are best targets) and remove a creature or get one of yours outside of burn reach. just watch out for skull crack.
I just saw amicdeep's sideboard guide. I am currently constructing a burn deck and I just want to also note that Dromoka's Command can force the burn player to sacrifice an enchantment, and Eidolon of the Great Revel is in fact an enchantment (the only enchantment burn plays). Combining this with the damage prevention mode can be a backbreaking two-for-one against burn. If you happen to be playing the version with the white splash, NEVER miss an opportunity to use this mode. Eidolon of the Great Revel is an amazing card for burn and must be dealt with as soon as possible if you plan on playing more cards that game.
In the Old Thread, the use of Wild Nacatl was usually met with ‘you’re not playing Stompy anymore, you’re playing Zoo’. That and the fact that a lot of people turned to Stompy as a budget alternative that doesn’t necessitate a hundred+ dollar land base.
Felt awesome after just coming back to playing again after a few months where work prevented me from making it out.
2-0 vs grixis shadow
2-1 vs classic jund(wtf goyf,thought you are dead!?)
2-0 vs abzan aggro I think(I only saw goyf, flayer, lingering souls,scooze both games, not a good match opponent seemed frustrated/ distracted / confused and not fully there all match
2-1 Boros burn. Dat deflecting palm hurts.
It should have nothing to do with budget. This is the developing competitive forum.
Whether it should or shouldn't, that's a point the Old Thread made in its second paragraph of its originating post.
"
One of the advantages of Stompy in Modern is it's an inherently cheap deck that doesn't require any truly expensive cards. It's also fairly straightforward to play (although there is definitely a learning curve, and skill is required for optimal results). As such, if you're brand new to Modern and are looking for a starting point, this is a great one.
"
I copied that part and left it in the new primer, because it is still true. A lot of people play stompy as a cheap first deck (or a cheap extra deck), and do not want to have to pay for a full manabase worth of fetches/shocks. That's why not everyone is playing Horizon Canopy, or fetches to accommodate the Narnam Renegade.
Even though this is the developing competitive thread, a great number of the people who play it and visit this thread do play on a budget. Your 'slippery slope' argument aside, when you look at the decklists people use, a lot of people use the version without fetches and Narnam Renegade, even though it is generally seen as the superior version of the deck.
Regarding your argument: I agree up until a certain point. People were already saying that splashing white would create a GW zoo deck, which isn't necessarily true. You can splash white to get access to cards like Path to Exile, Dromoka's Command and Gaddock Teeg, which are undoubtedly the strongest additions, while still maintaining the devotion/Aspect of Hydra approach.
I would say (without experience of playing it) that adding Wild Nacatl isn't worth it, but for different reasons. Splashing white already makes you lose 4 life in almost every match (2 fetches and a shock isn't ridiculous to assume), and if you want to add Wild Nacatl you also NEED to add a Stomping Grounds, which (because you want to be as aggressive and fast as possible) you need to have come into play untapped as well, making you lose an additional 2 life, adding up to 6 life lost every match. Making you lose 2 life every match just for Wild Nacatl isn't worth it for me, especially since you're completely opening up to Blood Moon as well. One Temple Garden being turned into a Mountain is bad enough, but losing 2 lands straight up kills us, and this used to be one of the big advantages of Stompy that gives us an edge against specific decks.
(I'm using a situation where you splash only for Wild Nacatl and don't transform into Naya Zoo. You can argue that using Lightning Bolt instead of other removal might be worth it, since it can be used to speed up the game and kill our opponent faster, but that is an entirely different discussion.)
Hey guys, just wanted to pop in and let you know that I will be taking a break from MTG for a little bit. Tournament reports wont come in, but I will try to stop by the thread to offer help and advice to anyone playing.
You couldn't follow my argumentation? I'm sorry if I wrote things unclearly, I was pretty tired yesterday night. What did you not understand?
If it helps, I do agree with every point you just made.
I'll try to rewrite what I had in mind in a short way.
Stompy has a number of advantages over most other decks:
1) being Blood Moon-proof,
2) having a painless manabase and
3) having the explosive power of Aspect of Hydra.
I think that when people want to slightly change the deck, they should strive to keep these three things in the deck. If you lose too much of these three points, you stop being a Stompy deck and turn it into something else.
By adding Wild Nacatl, you lose the first two, and might also lose the third (depending on how much the splash influences you card choices for creatures).
If we lose all three, we might as well play Zoo (Disregarding budget issues).
One of the biggest problems Stompy has is having access to good removal.
Most Stompy builds play Dismember, which we can afford due to our painless manabase.
Lists that splash white sacrifice the painless manabase, but can play Path to Exile. This gets rid of the problem of removal, evening it up.
They also partially lose being Blood Moon-proof, but since it's only one land, it's not the end of the world.
Fetch lists that purely play fetches for revolt triggers do lose the painless manabase, but stay Blood Moon-proof.
As for the Aspect of Hydra part, I have the strong feeling that we need that to be a competitive aggro deck. This also gives me the feeling that splashing white and adding white creatures in such a way that they drop Aspect, is a bad thing. The deck becomes a bit slower, and being able to outrace certain decks is what I feel to be one of the biggest advantages this deck has.
I understand that people do this as a meta choice, and I can completely agree with them. I'm not saying people should never drop the Aspect part, but I am saying that it would be best to keep it in as much as possible, EXCEPT when your meta really asks for it.
I think that what I'm trying to say with this regarding Wild Nacatl, is:
You CAN add Nacatl and keep the Aspect part, but you lose both the manabase advantages I described earlier.
(Okay this wasn't short at all.. but I hope I have made things a little bit more clear?)
Especially in the non budget builds with 10 fetchlands and Horizon Canopy we also get a decent ammoubt of damage during a game
I agree with this. This is also the reason why I don't play with fetches. The playset of Narnam Renegade that almost always come in with a counter might be worth that amount of damage if you face a lot of Death's Shadow or Eldrazitron, where making those trades is more important than losing 3-4 life.
Losing one of the 3 points I described is generally bad for our deck, unless you really need it for your meta.
On the budget part: The other huge advantage of our deck is, that it's core cards are cheap. So therefore you get a decent competitive deck for a low price. And if you want to upgrade it there is the one thing almost no deck comes by: Fetchlands as they lower your chance to draw Lands lategame. But this applies for almost every modern deck.
But the good thing is they are not needed as the deck is also pretty strong without you only need them if you want to get the last Percents of winrate. And even if you buy into them they are usable for many more decks than just Stompy.
I might be wrong here, but I remember players saying that playing fetches to thin out your deck doesn't really work that well. The percentages are ridiculously small, and every land you fetch makes you lose a life, so there's also an obvious limit to how many times you want to fetch.
You can still upgrade your budget version by adding Horizon Canopy, Rhonas the Indomitable and Thrun, the Last Troll for sideboard, without also adding fetches. But as you say as well, they are not really needed in this deck.
That is partially my mistake: I only considered the lands in play, not the ones you're going to draw/have in your hand. We only fetch one shock, and go for Forests after that. That's what I meant when I said that we only lose one land during Blood Moon.
It still hits hard, and the Treetops are indeed also terrible in this matchup, but I have heard before from other players (and I myself agree) that you do not play a basic Plains ever. Being hurt by Blood Moon is terrible, but basically missing a land drop because you can only play a small portion of your spells with a Plains is a lot worse, and that can happen in any match, not just the Moon one.
What I meant with "it's not the end of the world" is that if you have 3 lands and one of them is hit by Moon, you don`t automatically lose, whereas if it`s 2 out of the 3, you can't even cast most 2-drops and you basically lose if you don't topdeck a basic quickly.
But I definitely agree, I overlooked some things and Moon hits harder than I thought it would. This is also why I said that adding fetches/splashing white is definitely a meta choice, and I strongly advise to keep it fetchless unless your meta forces you to change your list.
As for your Grixis comment, I sadly do not have much experience with that. It sounds like a good plan though, holding back and letting them hurt themselves until we can finish them. Can you also share your list?
Do you attack in early turns when opponent has no blockers or do you back off until they are finally in shadow range.
I've personally had a much better win rate by holding back, building up my front line and forcing them to use resources to lower themselves to shadow range. Then just doing one big swing in for the kill.
What your guys experience. Since my own sample size is probably only ~ 20-30 matches.
I play against a lot of DS and Grixis in particularly and the best plan is make your board full and then swing for the win paying attention to vapor snag and fatal push using the vines and blossoming defense to protect your creature
Do you attack in early turns when opponent has no blockers or do you back off until they are finally in shadow range.
I've personally had a much better win rate by holding back, building up my front line and forcing them to use resources to lower themselves to shadow range. Then just doing one big swing in for the kill.
What your guys experience. Since my own sample size is probably only ~ 20-30 matches.
I have a little experience on it. The match-up becomes much easier if I have an early Dryad Millitant in the battlefield.. and it's important not to "overxtend" on dryad... what I mean is if I have two dryad .. I will only cast one, so that I have another one to use if they cast a board wipe.. Grixis decks in my meta have Drown in Sorrow as favored anti weenie card. And lastly, Dungrove Elder and Chameleon Colossus work well against them.
Round 1-Mono Green Stompy
First matchup of the night was against Mono-Green Stompy. Lately this match has been a strange one for me, because it's like a mirror, but not quite. Game 1 I wasn't fast enough and he used Aspect of Hydra on his unblocked creature for huge damage to finish the game. Game 2 I ran into the same problems, but managed to open aggressively, and got him down to 5 life. He swung for 14 on the next turn to kill me. I sided in 2 Path to Exile to try and get rid of his bigger stuff but it wasn't working. 0-1
Round 2-Affinity
Second match was against Affinity. First game went to time. The game took almost 45 minutes because of Vault Skirge and lifelink. I finally got enough in my grave and his grave to pump a Scavenging Ooze to 10/10! I managed to finish him off with 2 Oozes for a total of 14 damage. Next game was in time, and it ended up in a draw, so I took the round. 1-1
Round 3-Ad Nauseam
Third round brought me up against Ad Nauseum. This is one of my hardest matchups, and he got both games withing 3 turns. I never saw any of my SB cards in the second game. I sided in Teeg, Pithing Needle, and Manglehorn. I guess the only card in that deck that gets hit by Pithing Needle is Lightning Storm. 1-2.
Round 4
No game here. My opponent had to leave and dropped. Free win! 2-2.
Round 5-Aetherworks Marvel
This deck was interesting. It ran Aetherworks Marvel and used it to bring out giant beaters like Emrakul and Ulamog. I lost against it last week, but I got my revenge this week. First game was good. I opened decent, and managed to get him down to 9 life versus my 19 life. He hit Ulamog, and removed 2 creatures, on the next turn he activated Aetherworks and hit an Emrakul. Game over. Game 2 I sided in Teeg, Pithing Needle, and Manglehorn to try and disrupt hist combo. I got Teeg out very early and used Pithing Needle to shut down his combo pieces. Game 3 I kept in the hate and once again got Teeg out early. Summoned a Manglehorn to kill his Woodweaver's Puzzleknot. amd beat him down with Strangleroot Geist and Narnam Renegade. 3-2
Top 8- U/R Gifts Storm
This has always been a bit challenging to me, but I lost this match because I was not fast enough. Dromoka's Command and Path to Exile put in work as well as Dryad Militant. He managed to combo off on turn 6. Game 2 I made this mistake of not siding in Teeg (it was about 11PM by this point, pretty tired.) I open with Militant and slow him down pretty good, but he managed to kill it and hit an Empty the Warrens for 16 goblins to my board of 2 creatures.
All in all, it was a pretty decent night. I'm pretty sure I could have made better SB choices, and I probably should have paid more attention in Top 8. This is my second top in a row, so I know this deck can win. It seems to be a little bit slow compared to other decks, but I am not sure on how to make it any faster. Thanks for reading!
GMono Green StompyG
GWBoglesGW
I'm currently moving, so I might not be able to edit the primer a lot in the coming week.
It's great to see that the thread is so active!
@mcsavage702:
Great tournament report, and congrats on the results!
A couple of things: It might be useful if you post your list as well, or put your list in your signature. That way we can help more, especially with making it faster. Can you also write which cards you've sided out? Other than that, you put a lot of information in there and you write well. It's a blast to read results like this!
I've also been thinking about adding a FAQ-like section in the primer. The reason for that being that there are some questions/debate between two cards that I can't put anywhere else. Examples for this: Dungrove Elder vs Rhonas the Indomitable, how many nonbasics do I run when playing Dungrove Elder, general debate about removal (Dismember/Prey Upon/Nature's Way(/Mutant's Prey? We haven't talked about this card yet and I think it needs to be included in the primer whatsoever)), how good is Narnam Renegade with X fetches, which cards do I play first, how good is Rancor and how do I play it, things like that. Note that these are just from the top of my head, and might not be quality questions, but you know what I mean with this.
I've also been thinking about a how-to-play section, especially for beginners who just picked up this deck. Which hands to keep and when to mulligan, which creatures get priority over others, leaving mana open for Vines of Vastwood, when to play Rancor and on which creature, when to go all in and when to wait, when to play Treetop Village, etc.
Again, these are just ideas, and I'd love to hear your response to this!
I've been thinking of a pair of Lightning Greaves main. I mean swiftfoot boots allow you to target your own cards but the price in mana with greaves at 0 seems like a better option especially when on turn 3 you can attack with baloth or anything else that comes on to the board. As a bonus too, either they still cant remove them unless they do it on the attach which will bait out removal they would be using shortly anyway.
Mutant's Prey only belongs in a counters list. It's too unreliable otherwise. Not only do you need to have a creature in the field, but it has to have a +1/+1 counter on it and be big enough to kill the target. Leatherback Baloths are the best target for fight mechanics and in the standard Stompy you'll never have a counter on them.
Thinking about Nature's Way more, I suspect it gained traction when players started removing Baloths and Dungrove Elders from their list and playing lower to the ground with more one and two drops. When everyone was running Baloths and Elders, Prey Upon was used frequently.
@EonAon
If you want haste, I suspect you'd have better luck running Boggart Ram-Gang. I currently run 3 of them in my deck for same-turn damage. On the other hand, Lightning Greaves works on Avatar of the Resolute, so it might be worth testing.
Budget Modern: GStompyG | R8-WhackR
Thrashing Brontodon
1GG
3/4
1, sacrifice ~: Destroy target artifact or enchantment.
So it’s a 3/4 for 3 with 2 devotion, which is pretty close to passable stats for our purpose anyway. But can be cashed in for a Naturalize if needed. A lot of talk in the old thread was about sideboard options for artifact and enchantment threats - here’s one, and its not as inefficient as a beater as, say, Manglehorn is.
Secondly, I also don't think the Brontodon is good enough. At least Manglehorn stays in play, and doesn't cost 4 mana or 3 mana and 2 turns. If you really want removal, in a fast deck like this, you most likely want it to be fast. The only big reason people play Manglehorn is to circumvent Chalice of the Void (is that right? Or do people also play it mainly for the tapped ability?), and if you don't need that, then I personally prefer to play Natural State for the 1 mana cost which keeps our tempo up, or Unravel the Aether to get rid of big things like Hollow One and Wurmcoil Engine. I already find Manglehorn expensive, and to have a 3-drop that also needs an extra mana and needs to be sacrificed doesn't look like the best card for us.
That being said, I'd much rather have Manglehorn in the sideboard against faster decks like Affinity, where we definitely could not wait until turn 4 just to kill one artifact.
Another point to bring is that if you're not sure if your opponent is going to bring a problematic card for you (Ensnaring Bridge is an auto-lose), why not just bring in Beast Within? You can destroy your own land, or you own Strangleroot Geist to get the 3/3 body, which is almost as good, or you can destroy ANY permanent at INSTANT SPEED.
Beast Within seems like a completely different card than Brontosaur, but it's actually just a better version of the card in most situations.
GMono Green StompyG
GWBoglesGW
4 Experiment One
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Dryad Militant
3 Kalonian Tusker
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Steel Leaf Champion
2 Ghalta, Primal Hunger
4 Rancor
Land
2 Treetop Village
19 Forest
Instant
4 Aspect of Hydra
4 Vines of Vastwood
2 Dismember
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Choke
2 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Damping Sphere
2 Back to Nature
2 Feed the Clan
I also have the SB/playing guide from the original thread that amic typed up for me. I will post it here for everyone, and you can edit it as needed. I pretty much follow this guide when siding in and out.
I will have another tournament report for everyone on Friday. I really appreciate the support you guys are giving me with this deck.
GMono Green StompyG
GWBoglesGW
I just saw amicdeep's sideboard guide. I am currently constructing a burn deck and I just want to also note that Dromoka's Command can force the burn player to sacrifice an enchantment, and Eidolon of the Great Revel is in fact an enchantment (the only enchantment burn plays). Combining this with the damage prevention mode can be a backbreaking two-for-one against burn. If you happen to be playing the version with the white splash, NEVER miss an opportunity to use this mode. Eidolon of the Great Revel is an amazing card for burn and must be dealt with as soon as possible if you plan on playing more cards that game.
Felt awesome after just coming back to playing again after a few months where work prevented me from making it out.
2-0 vs grixis shadow
2-1 vs classic jund(wtf goyf,thought you are dead!?)
2-0 vs abzan aggro I think(I only saw goyf, flayer, lingering souls,scooze both games, not a good match opponent seemed frustrated/ distracted / confused and not fully there all match
2-1 Boros burn. Dat deflecting palm hurts.
Whether it should or shouldn't, that's a point the Old Thread made in its second paragraph of its originating post.
"
One of the advantages of Stompy in Modern is it's an inherently cheap deck that doesn't require any truly expensive cards. It's also fairly straightforward to play (although there is definitely a learning curve, and skill is required for optimal results). As such, if you're brand new to Modern and are looking for a starting point, this is a great one.
"
Hey, this thread's OP has that paragraph too.
Even though this is the developing competitive thread, a great number of the people who play it and visit this thread do play on a budget. Your 'slippery slope' argument aside, when you look at the decklists people use, a lot of people use the version without fetches and Narnam Renegade, even though it is generally seen as the superior version of the deck.
Regarding your argument: I agree up until a certain point. People were already saying that splashing white would create a GW zoo deck, which isn't necessarily true. You can splash white to get access to cards like Path to Exile, Dromoka's Command and Gaddock Teeg, which are undoubtedly the strongest additions, while still maintaining the devotion/Aspect of Hydra approach.
I would say (without experience of playing it) that adding Wild Nacatl isn't worth it, but for different reasons. Splashing white already makes you lose 4 life in almost every match (2 fetches and a shock isn't ridiculous to assume), and if you want to add Wild Nacatl you also NEED to add a Stomping Grounds, which (because you want to be as aggressive and fast as possible) you need to have come into play untapped as well, making you lose an additional 2 life, adding up to 6 life lost every match. Making you lose 2 life every match just for Wild Nacatl isn't worth it for me, especially since you're completely opening up to Blood Moon as well. One Temple Garden being turned into a Mountain is bad enough, but losing 2 lands straight up kills us, and this used to be one of the big advantages of Stompy that gives us an edge against specific decks.
(I'm using a situation where you splash only for Wild Nacatl and don't transform into Naya Zoo. You can argue that using Lightning Bolt instead of other removal might be worth it, since it can be used to speed up the game and kill our opponent faster, but that is an entirely different discussion.)
GMono Green StompyG
GWBoglesGW
If it helps, I do agree with every point you just made.
I'll try to rewrite what I had in mind in a short way.
Stompy has a number of advantages over most other decks:
1) being Blood Moon-proof,
2) having a painless manabase and
3) having the explosive power of Aspect of Hydra.
I think that when people want to slightly change the deck, they should strive to keep these three things in the deck. If you lose too much of these three points, you stop being a Stompy deck and turn it into something else.
By adding Wild Nacatl, you lose the first two, and might also lose the third (depending on how much the splash influences you card choices for creatures).
If we lose all three, we might as well play Zoo (Disregarding budget issues).
One of the biggest problems Stompy has is having access to good removal.
Most Stompy builds play Dismember, which we can afford due to our painless manabase.
Lists that splash white sacrifice the painless manabase, but can play Path to Exile. This gets rid of the problem of removal, evening it up.
They also partially lose being Blood Moon-proof, but since it's only one land, it's not the end of the world.
Fetch lists that purely play fetches for revolt triggers do lose the painless manabase, but stay Blood Moon-proof.
As for the Aspect of Hydra part, I have the strong feeling that we need that to be a competitive aggro deck. This also gives me the feeling that splashing white and adding white creatures in such a way that they drop Aspect, is a bad thing. The deck becomes a bit slower, and being able to outrace certain decks is what I feel to be one of the biggest advantages this deck has.
I understand that people do this as a meta choice, and I can completely agree with them. I'm not saying people should never drop the Aspect part, but I am saying that it would be best to keep it in as much as possible, EXCEPT when your meta really asks for it.
I think that what I'm trying to say with this regarding Wild Nacatl, is:
You CAN add Nacatl and keep the Aspect part, but you lose both the manabase advantages I described earlier.
(Okay this wasn't short at all.. but I hope I have made things a little bit more clear?)
I agree with this. This is also the reason why I don't play with fetches. The playset of Narnam Renegade that almost always come in with a counter might be worth that amount of damage if you face a lot of Death's Shadow or Eldrazitron, where making those trades is more important than losing 3-4 life.
Losing one of the 3 points I described is generally bad for our deck, unless you really need it for your meta.
I might be wrong here, but I remember players saying that playing fetches to thin out your deck doesn't really work that well. The percentages are ridiculously small, and every land you fetch makes you lose a life, so there's also an obvious limit to how many times you want to fetch.
You can still upgrade your budget version by adding Horizon Canopy, Rhonas the Indomitable and Thrun, the Last Troll for sideboard, without also adding fetches. But as you say as well, they are not really needed in this deck.
It still hits hard, and the Treetops are indeed also terrible in this matchup, but I have heard before from other players (and I myself agree) that you do not play a basic Plains ever. Being hurt by Blood Moon is terrible, but basically missing a land drop because you can only play a small portion of your spells with a Plains is a lot worse, and that can happen in any match, not just the Moon one.
What I meant with "it's not the end of the world" is that if you have 3 lands and one of them is hit by Moon, you don`t automatically lose, whereas if it`s 2 out of the 3, you can't even cast most 2-drops and you basically lose if you don't topdeck a basic quickly.
But I definitely agree, I overlooked some things and Moon hits harder than I thought it would. This is also why I said that adding fetches/splashing white is definitely a meta choice, and I strongly advise to keep it fetchless unless your meta forces you to change your list.
As for your Grixis comment, I sadly do not have much experience with that. It sounds like a good plan though, holding back and letting them hurt themselves until we can finish them. Can you also share your list?
I play against a lot of DS and Grixis in particularly and the best plan is make your board full and then swing for the win paying attention to vapor snag and fatal push using the vines and blossoming defense to protect your creature
G Mono Green Stompy G
UR UR Delver Prowess UR
URBGrixis DelverURB
RBWMardu PyromancerRBW
I have a little experience on it. The match-up becomes much easier if I have an early Dryad Millitant in the battlefield.. and it's important not to "overxtend" on dryad... what I mean is if I have two dryad .. I will only cast one, so that I have another one to use if they cast a board wipe.. Grixis decks in my meta have Drown in Sorrow as favored anti weenie card. And lastly, Dungrove Elder and Chameleon Colossus work well against them.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread