I think fiend artisan is a interesting card to look at. Dont know if we want a pair or a 3 pack but I can see it being decent late game as a big beater. The search ability isn't bad but dont know if we would make alot of use from that.
i think you are right!, i usually run 2dismember and 2 savage swipe as removal, but i like very muchram throught, i think i'll put it in the main(at least 2)
The thing I like about Ram Through is that with trample you can use it against a low power creature and it becomes a direct damage spell.
ram is one of the best spells we received from this new set imo. We choose the smallest creature they have, and ram that with our biggest trample creature to possibly end the game.
or if you can put deathtouch and trample on the same creature you can assign one point to anything and the rest as burn. Still kill the biggest thing they got and if the burn doesn't kill'em your still on a upside.
Woah, guess I missed the boat on this one. Hopefully there are some people still floating around. I just got back into Modern after taking a 2 year hiatus. Green has always been my favorite and I've always been a Timmy player, so this deck is right up my alley.
three Syr Faren feels too many, perhaps replace the third Syr with a fourth Troll?
I was thinking that too, in goldfishing I feel like its a good idea to have multiple to ensure I can get the effect off, but often times I have too many in my hand.
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It's easy to believe you're a god when you're twice as powerful as everyone else.
I was toying between Dismembers or Veils MB. They're both super super good, but I felt that having protection over removal was the edge. I also had 2 Ram Through and I felt that they'd help.
I also ended up moving Oozes SB due to just running out of space. Plus I feel they're better G2 in general when I need to really that hate and and less aggression.
The Surgical Extraction came into the SB due to dealing with popular Oro decks.
Overall I'm happy with this current version I've made, haven't played any paper games yet but in goldfishing it seems to play well.
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It's easy to believe you're a god when you're twice as powerful as everyone else.
only changes id make are
using savage swipe for the mb removal spell
5 pelt/eones (they are pretty bad in multiples and in there place add 2 more lands and 3 dryad militants (millanat shuts down uro, mystic sanctuary and snap caster plans, gurmag angler. it's just really solid against a surprisingly large amount of the modern meta.
19 lands feels a little light, as with hexdrinkers & canopy land the deck often has places to put mana.
also Waterlogged Grove is $ cheaper that peatlands with no real change in play 99% of the time
sb id probably go for pithing needle over surgical, as pw and creature combos are going to be more of a problem that non uro/shriekhorn based gy stuff for the most part
(im also a big fan of a single mb rhonas, as he just dominates a board and wins deathshadow and snow matchups. )
So what I noticed about the rules there is that the targetted creatures power has to be equal to 2 if you want that sweet +2/+2. I've found that I can often pump my EOs and Pelt Collectors past that by T3 and then it isn't removal anymore, just super slow pump spell
5 pelt/eones (they are pretty bad in multiples and in there place add 2 more lands and 3 dryad militants (millanat shuts down uro, mystic sanctuary and snap caster plans, gurmag angler. it's just really solid against a surprisingly large amount of the modern meta.
So I run a hyper aggressive build of the deck, with the 4/4 of EOs and PCs it ensures I get that super aggresive T1 play without mucking around with mulligans. I've found, and sadly without any paper magic for a while, having just 2 Dryad Militants MB is a sweet spot to often have on in the opening hand. If Astrolabe wasn't banned then I'd probably run 4 Dryads, as it is having it banned means control decks aren't as hyper aggresive and I can afford to not have more than 2.
19 lands feels a little light, as with hexdrinkers & canopy land the deck often has places to put mana.
I've often found that having 20 lands meant I flooded super super easily, and since my curve is super low, in testing, I found I could skate around that 19 mark and still have next to no issues. Hexdrinkers I like, I rarely ever have one stick nor even get to their first stage due to the amount of removal thrown their way, but I'm okay with it since it's less removal for my other creatures.
also Waterlogged Grove is $ cheaper that peatlands with no real change in play 99% of the time
The reason I run Nurturing Peatland is so I don't have to pay as much like with Dismember than if i didn't have it. I'd also have no U in my deck so I wouldn't want to run the Waterlog one.
sb id probably go for pithing needle over surgical, as pw and creature combos are going to be more of a problem that non uro/shriekhorn based gy stuff for the most part
While true pithing needle is probably a bit stronger, my weakest matchups are against Tron, Control, Dredge and so forth. Being able to Surgical a key piece from them makes my day.
(im also a big fan of a single mb rhonas, as he just dominates a board and wins deathshadow and snow matchups. )
I really wanted to run a Rhonas in my first versions of this deck, and I found his just makes the deck kinda clunky because his ability demands constant uses, whereas I'm trying to progress the board state. Plus if I can't hit that 5 devotion he just sits there awkwardly.
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It's easy to believe you're a god when you're twice as powerful as everyone else.
not trying to convince you but a few clarifications on my own entrances with the deck.
rhonas doesn't require devotion just a creature with 4 power on board, and i've found the ability is more of an late game extra to give a little more reach and damage penetration, the relevant part is the 5/5 indestructible deathtouch for 3, but in general any creature can turn him on after a board wipe, he just completely shuts down some matchups like deathshadow and jund (as long as they don't manage to get a lily sac with only him on field there have no way to deal with him i there decks)
yeah the tron matchup was most of my reason for splashing white, teeg and path make the matchup a lot more viable, personally i found a well piloted etron to be almost unwinnable
for none snow control pithing needle is probably going to serve better, sticking needle on colande or jtms or big tef can severely cripple there decks.
dredge was a big factor in the deck originally playing 4 militants and 2-3 scooze mb, with these the matchup is about fair, and with a couple of return to natures in the sb really make the matchup pretty viable.
the issues i've had with 8 1/1 evolving creatures is it tends to lower the damage output in the first 2-3 turns and can has some seriously limiting effects on how to sequence your first 2 turn if you have multiples in your starting hand and first 2 draws (losing out on early pressure to set up for turn 4+) personally i've always hated that loss of flexibility and pressure, and they are also just really bad top decks.
yes swipe wants that 2 power to really show off, but at its worse it's still a prey upon which was historically the removal spell for the deck, even discounting evolve creatures you have 10 natural targets in the list you've got above, and another 11 targets that could have 2 power. best way to view it is a basic prey upon, but often its also providing better removal and more damage (often with straight damage dealing and fight effects you are limited by the size of your creatures on the field. this tends to raise the amount of damage you can deal effectively and while not limiting your options in the late game when you need to aspect and fight a deathshadow or angler.
So I usually only play one or two at a time. My turns usually go
T1: EO/PC
T2: Troll, Geist, Syr
T3: EO/PC, Troll, Geist
And keep tempo after that.
PC isn't too bad a top deck, whereas EO generally is.
I've found Ram Through to be far better than Savage Swipe IMO. For one more Mana you get a one sided fight, plus it combos better with PCs, SLC, and Rancors. And it's a great combat trick too boot.
Needle is fine, my issue is I feel we don't really need it. At least my deck doesn't, I'm shooting for such an aggressive game that their T3/T4 Walker's are often more of a hindrance, I've had a few games on Cockatrice against snow control, that they haven't been able to play their Walker's due to the pressure.
I'd almost toss it into our sister deck of Devotion.
Do you have your current list available for viewing?
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It's easy to believe you're a god when you're twice as powerful as everyone else.
So what I noticed about the rules there is that the targetted creatures power has to be equal to 2 if you want that sweet +2/+2. I've found that I can often pump my EOs and Pelt Collectors past that by T3 and then it isn't removal anymore, just super slow pump spell
Not sure if I understand this comment. You always get the fight effect with Swipe so it is, at least loosely speaking, "removal".
So I usually only play one or two at a time. My turns usually go
T1: EO/PC
T2: Troll, Geist, Syr
T3: EO/PC, Troll, Geist
And keep tempo after that.
PC isn't too bad a top deck, whereas EO generally is.
Many times it's hard to evolve a second one past 2/2 is the problem, particularly since they never evolve themselves. I think running 8 of them is borderline crazy because some noticeable percentage of the time your curve will result in the second one being locked as a 1/1.
Yes it's removal, but as mentioned above it really wants that +2/+2 to really shine. I'd rather run Ram Through as my my removal due to it being a one sided fight and instant speed to make blocking tricky.
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It's easy to believe you're a god when you're twice as powerful as everyone else.
I've never done the math, but you are right I do have a few hands every now and again that do contain a few one drops, however, I tend to stagger them of the course of a few turns and to keep extra for mass wipes.
Yes they don't evolve themselves, but the deck really wants to hit that 1 drop T1.
And I've found no better 1 drops I want to run. It's hard to tell due to no paper magic atm
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It's easy to believe you're a god when you're twice as powerful as everyone else.
I've never done the math, but you are right I do have a few hands every now and again that do contain a few one drops, however, I tend to stagger them of the course of a few turns and to keep extra for mass wipes.
Yes they don't evolve themselves, but the deck really wants to hit that 1 drop T1.
And I've found no better 1 drops I want to run. It's hard to tell due to no paper magic atm
It requires fetchlands to work but Narnam Renegade is clearly better -- and also works better with Experiment One which I personally think is quite a bit superior of the two evolvers.
Yes it's removal, but as mentioned above it really wants that +2/+2 to really shine. I'd rather run Ram Through as my my removal due to it being a one sided fight and instant speed to make blocking tricky.
Ram Through is the better card in a vaccuum for sure, but its mostly 3 mana minimum to kill anything large without surrendering a likely 2-for-1 combat trade. When it works perefectly with Rancor of course it is great but most of the time you have to devote another pump spell and it is still 2 mana in a mana light deck.
Not saying I don't like it but I its important to recognize how it is positioned vs Savage Swipe which is also quite good.
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The thing I like about Ram Through is that with trample you can use it against a low power creature and it becomes a direct damage spell.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
That said, I use to play decks like Restore balance and just recently Neoform.
I had a couple of questions,
1. Do we have a discord for this deck archtype?
2. This is the list I'm currently running with the help of a friend.
4x Avatar of the Resolute
3x Barkhide Troll
4x Experiment One
4x Hexdrinker
4x Pelt Collector
2x Scavenging Ooze
4x Steel Leaf Champion
4x Strangleroot Geist
3x Syr Faren, the Hengehammer
14x Forest
4x Nurturing Peatland
2x Treetop Village
Instant (4)
4x Aspect of Hydra
Enchantment (4)
4x Rancor
3x Collector Ouphe
3x Damping Sphere
3x Dismember
2x Force of Vigor
4x Veil of Summer
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
I was thinking that too, in goldfishing I feel like its a good idea to have multiple to ensure I can get the effect off, but often times I have too many in my hand.
One more thing, I notice you have four Steel leaf. Are 20 lands enough to reliably cast him in games you played?
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Surprsingly yes. I've actually made a ton more changes to my deck with the help of a local discord group I found and some friends.
4x Avatar of the Resolute
3x Barkhide Troll
4x Experiment One
4x Hexdrinker
4x Pelt Collector
4x Steel Leaf Champion
4x Strangleroot Geist
2x Syr Faren, the Hengehammer
4x Aspect of Hydra
2x Ram Through
2x Veil of Summer
Land (19)
13x Forest
4x Nurturing Peatland
2x Treetop Village
Enchantment (4)
4x Rancor
3x Damping Sphere
3x Dismember
2x Force of Vigor
3x Scavenging Ooze
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Veil of Summer
I was toying between Dismembers or Veils MB. They're both super super good, but I felt that having protection over removal was the edge. I also had 2 Ram Through and I felt that they'd help.
I also ended up moving Oozes SB due to just running out of space. Plus I feel they're better G2 in general when I need to really that hate and and less aggression.
The Surgical Extraction came into the SB due to dealing with popular Oro decks.
Overall I'm happy with this current version I've made, haven't played any paper games yet but in goldfishing it seems to play well.
using savage swipe for the mb removal spell
5 pelt/eones (they are pretty bad in multiples and in there place add 2 more lands and 3 dryad militants (millanat shuts down uro, mystic sanctuary and snap caster plans, gurmag angler. it's just really solid against a surprisingly large amount of the modern meta.
19 lands feels a little light, as with hexdrinkers & canopy land the deck often has places to put mana.
also Waterlogged Grove is $ cheaper that peatlands with no real change in play 99% of the time
sb id probably go for pithing needle over surgical, as pw and creature combos are going to be more of a problem that non uro/shriekhorn based gy stuff for the most part
(im also a big fan of a single mb rhonas, as he just dominates a board and wins deathshadow and snow matchups. )
Competitive Decks
Devotion to the Lash B ----
Monkey Conservation WUGR ---- Dragon WorshipR
So what I noticed about the rules there is that the targetted creatures power has to be equal to 2 if you want that sweet +2/+2. I've found that I can often pump my EOs and Pelt Collectors past that by T3 and then it isn't removal anymore, just super slow pump spell
So I run a hyper aggressive build of the deck, with the 4/4 of EOs and PCs it ensures I get that super aggresive T1 play without mucking around with mulligans. I've found, and sadly without any paper magic for a while, having just 2 Dryad Militants MB is a sweet spot to often have on in the opening hand. If Astrolabe wasn't banned then I'd probably run 4 Dryads, as it is having it banned means control decks aren't as hyper aggresive and I can afford to not have more than 2.
I've often found that having 20 lands meant I flooded super super easily, and since my curve is super low, in testing, I found I could skate around that 19 mark and still have next to no issues. Hexdrinkers I like, I rarely ever have one stick nor even get to their first stage due to the amount of removal thrown their way, but I'm okay with it since it's less removal for my other creatures.
The reason I run Nurturing Peatland is so I don't have to pay as much like with Dismember than if i didn't have it. I'd also have no U in my deck so I wouldn't want to run the Waterlog one.
While true pithing needle is probably a bit stronger, my weakest matchups are against Tron, Control, Dredge and so forth. Being able to Surgical a key piece from them makes my day.
I really wanted to run a Rhonas in my first versions of this deck, and I found his just makes the deck kinda clunky because his ability demands constant uses, whereas I'm trying to progress the board state. Plus if I can't hit that 5 devotion he just sits there awkwardly.
rhonas doesn't require devotion just a creature with 4 power on board, and i've found the ability is more of an late game extra to give a little more reach and damage penetration, the relevant part is the 5/5 indestructible deathtouch for 3, but in general any creature can turn him on after a board wipe, he just completely shuts down some matchups like deathshadow and jund (as long as they don't manage to get a lily sac with only him on field there have no way to deal with him i there decks)
yeah the tron matchup was most of my reason for splashing white, teeg and path make the matchup a lot more viable, personally i found a well piloted etron to be almost unwinnable
for none snow control pithing needle is probably going to serve better, sticking needle on colande or jtms or big tef can severely cripple there decks.
dredge was a big factor in the deck originally playing 4 militants and 2-3 scooze mb, with these the matchup is about fair, and with a couple of return to natures in the sb really make the matchup pretty viable.
the issues i've had with 8 1/1 evolving creatures is it tends to lower the damage output in the first 2-3 turns and can has some seriously limiting effects on how to sequence your first 2 turn if you have multiples in your starting hand and first 2 draws (losing out on early pressure to set up for turn 4+) personally i've always hated that loss of flexibility and pressure, and they are also just really bad top decks.
yes swipe wants that 2 power to really show off, but at its worse it's still a prey upon which was historically the removal spell for the deck, even discounting evolve creatures you have 10 natural targets in the list you've got above, and another 11 targets that could have 2 power. best way to view it is a basic prey upon, but often its also providing better removal and more damage (often with straight damage dealing and fight effects you are limited by the size of your creatures on the field. this tends to raise the amount of damage you can deal effectively and while not limiting your options in the late game when you need to aspect and fight a deathshadow or angler.
Competitive Decks
Devotion to the Lash B ----
Monkey Conservation WUGR ---- Dragon WorshipR
T1: EO/PC
T2: Troll, Geist, Syr
T3: EO/PC, Troll, Geist
And keep tempo after that.
PC isn't too bad a top deck, whereas EO generally is.
I've found Ram Through to be far better than Savage Swipe IMO. For one more Mana you get a one sided fight, plus it combos better with PCs, SLC, and Rancors. And it's a great combat trick too boot.
Needle is fine, my issue is I feel we don't really need it. At least my deck doesn't, I'm shooting for such an aggressive game that their T3/T4 Walker's are often more of a hindrance, I've had a few games on Cockatrice against snow control, that they haven't been able to play their Walker's due to the pressure.
I'd almost toss it into our sister deck of Devotion.
Do you have your current list available for viewing?
Not sure if I understand this comment. You always get the fight effect with Swipe so it is, at least loosely speaking, "removal".
Many times it's hard to evolve a second one past 2/2 is the problem, particularly since they never evolve themselves. I think running 8 of them is borderline crazy because some noticeable percentage of the time your curve will result in the second one being locked as a 1/1.
Yes they don't evolve themselves, but the deck really wants to hit that 1 drop T1.
And I've found no better 1 drops I want to run. It's hard to tell due to no paper magic atm
It requires fetchlands to work but Narnam Renegade is clearly better -- and also works better with Experiment One which I personally think is quite a bit superior of the two evolvers.
Ram Through is the better card in a vaccuum for sure, but its mostly 3 mana minimum to kill anything large without surrendering a likely 2-for-1 combat trade. When it works perefectly with Rancor of course it is great but most of the time you have to devote another pump spell and it is still 2 mana in a mana light deck.
Not saying I don't like it but I its important to recognize how it is positioned vs Savage Swipe which is also quite good.