I guess that makes for a fine start. You might want to cut 2 Leatherback Baloths (since 6 3-drops seem to be the Maximum to be aggressive enough) and 2-4 Pelts or Experiments (since more than 4 Evolvers might be too many to use them adequately).
I would suggest "investing" these free Slots in some removal, which is missing completely - Dismember or even Prey Upon could do the Job here. In the Manabase, I have to disagree with Mtgthewary, in my opinion 20 lands is more than enough. 1-2 Treetop Villages might be a good idea there, to ensure a little lategame power.
Also, 2-3 2-drops could be good to smooth out the curve, maybe Kalonian Tusker or even Garruk's Companion or Scavening Ooze (if that's budget-friendly enough).
But as I said, an absolut solid start, just needs a little Tuning. Have a look through the former 10 pages of this Thread, there you'll find some more lists for Inspiration. Good luck!
@Mtgthewary: You might want to be a little more specific when making such suggestions, I guess otherwise this Person might not learn why these changes could be relevant.
I'd agree with Alex on basically everything, but I'd definitely suggest 21 lands to be able to consistently play 3-drops on turn 3. Here's a quick list for you to look at. I'd also suggest making room for one more Dismember in the sideboard when you're building one.
I would suggest "investing" these free Slots in some removal, which is missing completely - Dismember or even Prey Upon could do the Job here.
Has Titanic Brawl supplanted Prey Upon for our purposes? Instant speed is very useful to make it an opponent's-turn or mid-combat trick, and we run lots of creatures that get +1/+1 counters and for those creatures it's as cheap as Prey Upon as well.
Has Titanic Brawl supplanted Prey Upon for our purposes? Instant speed is very useful to make it an opponent's-turn or mid-combat trick, and we run lots of creatures that get +1/+1 counters and for those creatures it's as cheap as Prey Upon as well.
Good Point, I am actually testing that one right now. Seems good so far, but somehow I forgot that one.
Thanks for all the thoughts guys! Some more questions based off feedback, no particular order, feel free to only reply to some and thanks again!
I'm usually a pretty big fan of redundancy, and running 2 ofs always throws me off, is 2 removal spells enough to get it done?
Three in your 75 is standard. I like two in the main as it's common to just need to shift one blocker for the win, but for games where your opponent is quicker than you, you need the third for games 2-3. You can also consider pump spells (like Aspect or Vines) to sometimes function as removal for attacking or blocking creatures, so you're never as low on ways to kill your opponent's dudes as you think with just two Dismember.
Do you mulligan if you don't have a 1-drop creature?
If you're not swinging for some damage on T2 (so either a 1-drop, or a Strangleroot Geist), I'd probably mulligan. Never keep a one lander, no matter how promising .
Is Tusker preferable to Ooze if you don't anticipate seeing many graveyard decks?
Ooze is so much better than Tusker - remember that you'll almost certainly lose at least 2 creatures per game, so a 4/4 Scooze is pretty likely. Plus, eating cards to shrink Tarmogoyf or get Storm off Past in Flames is a solid upside.
The Oasis seems a bit strange to me, what's the appeal over another Village/Forest?
It's an untapped green source that's also a slightly pricey Giant Growth. It's good in maybe 5% of games, but it's almost free to run; so when I was running a fetchless build, I liked it as a one-of.
Would the deck run any banned cards if they were available? Deathrite?
Nothing that wouldn't fundamentally change the deck.
Thanks for all the thoughts guys! Some more questions based off feedback, no particular order, feel free to only reply to some and thanks again!
I'm usually a pretty big fan of redundancy, and running 2 ofs always throws me off, is 2 removal spells enough to get it done?
Depends on the matchup, but 3-4 in the 75 seems alright. There are games where you just simply can't survice without killing an opposing creature (Death's Shadow, Counter's Company).
Do you mulligan if you don't have a 1-drop creature?
Generally yes, a 1-drop on turn 1 generally applies the pressure you Need. But of Course there are exceptions, e.g. the Hands that involve Treetop Village, where you are Kind of happy to start with a tapped land and then go on with 2- and 3-drops.
Is Tusker preferable to Ooze if you don't anticipate seeing many graveyard decks?
Yes, I guess so. I definitely have lost game before, where the 1 extra damage was missing. Don't get me wrong, Ooze is the strictly better Card in a vaccuum, but there are lots of game where it is just a Grizzly Bears. Personally, I run only 1 in the maindeck, another one in the sideboard. Also, it provides only 1 Devotion.
The Oasis seems a bit strange to me, what's the appeal over another Village/Forest?
Oasis gives you some extra value from your lands in the "lategame" (after turn 4). You will quickly hit the Point in the game where you enter topdeck-mode, and in this case you Need every help you can get. In this case, Oasis is basically an extra pump spell, just like Treetop Village is an extra creature. The lifeloss is hardly relevant.
Would the deck run any banned cards if they were available? Deathrite?
Yes, actually I played 2 Gitaxian Probes, when they were legal - free Information and increased redundancy, great! But the Card is definitely banned for a reason (even in Legacy).
Deathrite Shaman would not help the deck in my opinion, for the same reason that Noble Hierarch is not played in the deck. Mana creatures just do not provide enough extra damage and tempo to be relevant here.
Unfortunately, Green Sun’s Zenith is banned in modern.
Richaworth and Alex from the North gave you really good tips, hope you will have a great time playing Stompy.
Unfortunately, Green Sun’s Zenith is banned in modern.
So is Glimpse of Nature. My post was in the context of the ongoing discussion started with the question "Would the deck run any banned cards if they were available? ".
No match-ups feel truly lopsided. Feel like I have game against about every deck. A bit soft to Bogles/Auras but I haven't ran into it on MtGO or IRL yet. Have pretty close to 50/50 record against any given deck in the Competitive Leagues.
I am very rusty at the game, and have made a few misplays with the newer cards. Still remember all the sweet old interactions, though.
These splash-color lists I'm seeing are getting wild. I don't think I'd ever want to change anything about my main 60. I haven't cast Garruk Wildspeaker, yet. He's a flex spot trial against Path To Exile decks, UW specifically.
I'll be substituting one of the Unravel The Aether for a copy of Deglamer just because Nevermore exists and there is zero downside.
No match-ups feel truly lopsided. Feel like I have game against about every deck. A bit soft to Bogles/Auras but I haven't ran into it on MtGO or IRL yet. Have pretty close to 50/50 record against any given deck in the Competitive Leagues.
I am very rusty at the game, and have made a few misplays with the newer cards. Still remember all the sweet old interactions, though.
These splash-color lists I'm seeing are getting wild. I don't think I'd ever want to change anything about my main 60. I haven't cast Garruk Wildspeaker, yet. He's a flex spot trial against Path To Exile decks, UW specifically.
I'll be substituting one of the Unravel The Aether for a copy of Deglamer just because Nevermore exists and there is zero downside.
Hi, I really like your list and the choice of artifact/enchantment hate cards. There is nothing more infuriating than facing Ensnaring Bridge next to a Welding Jar.
I think that Scooze is generally better than Scavenger. Removing cards at instant speed is much more versatile, for example a Phoenix before opponent's combat. Or do you have a better experience with them? Maybe split 4 Scavengers for 2 Scooze and 2 Relic of Progenitus?
Also, how is Repudiate playing out for you?
No match-ups feel truly lopsided. Feel like I have game against about every deck. A bit soft to Bogles/Auras but I haven't ran into it on MtGO or IRL yet. Have pretty close to 50/50 record against any given deck in the Competitive Leagues.
I am very rusty at the game, and have made a few misplays with the newer cards. Still remember all the sweet old interactions, though.
These splash-color lists I'm seeing are getting wild. I don't think I'd ever want to change anything about my main 60. I haven't cast Garruk Wildspeaker, yet. He's a flex spot trial against Path To Exile decks, UW specifically.
I'll be substituting one of the Unravel The Aether for a copy of Deglamer just because Nevermore exists and there is zero downside.
How is running two Pendelhaven going for you? I like the idea of running it as a one-of to hedge against top-decking E1 or Pelt Collector (and I'm definitely going to pick one up), but I can't imagine running two (the approximately 1/25 chance of drawing completely dead T2/T3 if I already had one in play from a two-land start seems... uncomfortable). Or is float green, legend rule, tap for green enough to offset the loss most of the time?
Ensnaring Bridge is the hate card against us. I've tried all kinds of answers from Fracturing Gust + an extra land to Unyaro Bees in the board. Hoping to interact early while maintaining our usual clock is still the best bet, imo. Whir Prison and Lantern are the real worst match-ups. I bring in Unravel The Aether against burn as well. They board in bridge sometimes and it's a non-Dismember removal against Eidolon Of The Great Revel.
Scavenging Ooze is one of our best cards when it's good but can be a bit mana-intensive. Deathgorge Scavenger let's the deck keep attacking. He's meant for the burn and Dredge match-ups. It's like...half Scavenging Ooze/half Kitchen Finks. I've considered 3 dino/1 Scooze split in the board, though.
Repudiate has been sweet! It's won a couple games against Amulet Titan. I even countered the bounce-a-land effect to keep his Tolaria West on the field that would have otherwise got a Summoner's Pact -> threat/blocker. It counters the first Ugin, The Spirit Dragon activation, Oblivion Stone, Wurmcoil Engine tokens, Primeval Titan search, Master Of Waves tokens, Slayers' Stronghold, Terminus miracle, etc. It's won a few games against opponents who tap out for a Planeswalker like Teferi, Hero Of Dominaria and I just counter the first activation and attack back for lethal. It counters Thing In The Ice flip, but the card doesn't feel otherwise relevant in those match-ups so I leave it out. The Phoenix match-up has felt pretty favorable.
Pendelhaven has absolutely pulled it's weight and the legend rule has never broke my mana. I've drawn two in a game a couple times but being able to float a mana and play the other is enough to curve out. Pendelhaven activation -> Rancor -> attack with a 4/3 on turn two when they left up Spell Snare mana feels good.
I guess that makes for a fine start. You might want to cut 2 Leatherback Baloths (since 6 3-drops seem to be the Maximum to be aggressive enough) and 2-4 Pelts or Experiments (since more than 4 Evolvers might be too many to use them adequately).
I would suggest "investing" these free Slots in some removal, which is missing completely - Dismember or even Prey Upon could do the Job here. In the Manabase, I have to disagree with Mtgthewary, in my opinion 20 lands is more than enough. 1-2 Treetop Villages might be a good idea there, to ensure a little lategame power.
Also, 2-3 2-drops could be good to smooth out the curve, maybe Kalonian Tusker or even Garruk's Companion or Scavening Ooze (if that's budget-friendly enough).
But as I said, an absolut solid start, just needs a little Tuning. Have a look through the former 10 pages of this Thread, there you'll find some more lists for Inspiration. Good luck!
@Mtgthewary: You might want to be a little more specific when making such suggestions, I guess otherwise this Person might not learn why these changes could be relevant.
2 Pelt Collector
4 Experiment One
4 Dryad Militant
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Steel Leaf Champion
2 Leatherback Baloth
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Aspect of Hydra
3 Rancor
4 Vines of Vastwood
2 Dismember
Lands
18 Forest
2 Treetop Village
1 Hashep Oasis
Has Titanic Brawl supplanted Prey Upon for our purposes? Instant speed is very useful to make it an opponent's-turn or mid-combat trick, and we run lots of creatures that get +1/+1 counters and for those creatures it's as cheap as Prey Upon as well.
I'm usually a pretty big fan of redundancy, and running 2 ofs always throws me off, is 2 removal spells enough to get it done?
Do you mulligan if you don't have a 1-drop creature?
Is Tusker preferable to Ooze if you don't anticipate seeing many graveyard decks?
I really like the idea of only 3x Rancor, in a couple proxy games I've been kinda sad to see a second one of those.
10/10/6 seems to be the consensus on creatures, I'll try to decide my mix there.
The Oasis seems a bit strange to me, what's the appeal over another Village/Forest?
Would the deck run any banned cards if they were available? Deathrite?
Good Point, I am actually testing that one right now. Seems good so far, but somehow I forgot that one.
Three in your 75 is standard. I like two in the main as it's common to just need to shift one blocker for the win, but for games where your opponent is quicker than you, you need the third for games 2-3. You can also consider pump spells (like Aspect or Vines) to sometimes function as removal for attacking or blocking creatures, so you're never as low on ways to kill your opponent's dudes as you think with just two Dismember.
If you're not swinging for some damage on T2 (so either a 1-drop, or a Strangleroot Geist), I'd probably mulligan. Never keep a one lander, no matter how promising .
Ooze is so much better than Tusker - remember that you'll almost certainly lose at least 2 creatures per game, so a 4/4 Scooze is pretty likely. Plus, eating cards to shrink Tarmogoyf or get Storm off Past in Flames is a solid upside.
It's an untapped green source that's also a slightly pricey Giant Growth. It's good in maybe 5% of games, but it's almost free to run; so when I was running a fetchless build, I liked it as a one-of.
Nothing that wouldn't fundamentally change the deck.
Depends on the matchup, but 3-4 in the 75 seems alright. There are games where you just simply can't survice without killing an opposing creature (Death's Shadow, Counter's Company).
Generally yes, a 1-drop on turn 1 generally applies the pressure you Need. But of Course there are exceptions, e.g. the Hands that involve Treetop Village, where you are Kind of happy to start with a tapped land and then go on with 2- and 3-drops.
Yes, I guess so. I definitely have lost game before, where the 1 extra damage was missing. Don't get me wrong, Ooze is the strictly better Card in a vaccuum, but there are lots of game where it is just a Grizzly Bears. Personally, I run only 1 in the maindeck, another one in the sideboard. Also, it provides only 1 Devotion.
Oasis gives you some extra value from your lands in the "lategame" (after turn 4). You will quickly hit the Point in the game where you enter topdeck-mode, and in this case you Need every help you can get. In this case, Oasis is basically an extra pump spell, just like Treetop Village is an extra creature. The lifeloss is hardly relevant.
The non-Budget Option here is Horizon Canopy.
Yes, actually I played 2 Gitaxian Probes, when they were legal - free Information and increased redundancy, great! But the Card is definitely banned for a reason (even in Legacy).
Deathrite Shaman would not help the deck in my opinion, for the same reason that Noble Hierarch is not played in the deck. Mana creatures just do not provide enough extra damage and tempo to be relevant here.
Richaworth and Alex from the North gave you really good tips, hope you will have a great time playing Stompy.
So is Glimpse of Nature. My post was in the context of the ongoing discussion started with the question "Would the deck run any banned cards if they were available? ".
Do you guys think a white splash is a worthwhile investment?
Dromoka's Command in mainboard and Rest in Peace, Gaddock Teeg, Stony Silence, Selesnya Charm, Path to Exile and Knight of Autumn in sideboard for various matches.
I guess it depends on the meta in the first place, but generally speaking, are these cards strictly better than typical green sideboard options like Damping Sphere, Life Goes On, Pithing Needle, Relic of Progenitus etc.?
Anywho, think I've figured out a 60 I want to test proxy for a bit, thanks for all the replies!
4 Experiment One
2 Pelt Collector
4 Avatar of the Resolute
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
2 Leatherback Baloth
4 Steel Leaf Champion
3 Aspect of Hydra
3 Rancor
3 Vines of Vastwood
3 Dismember
18 Forest
3 Treetop Village
That's the build Amicdeep has been pushing in this thread for over a year now. That man loves his Dromoka's Commands.
Here's my list
4 Dryad Militant
4 Experiment One
1 Pelt Collector
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Steel Leaf Champion
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Dismember
4 Rancor
4 Vines Of Vastwood
17 Forest
2 Pendelhaven
2 Treetop Village
4 Deathgorge Scavenger
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Oxidize
4 Repudiate // Replicate
2 Unravel The Aether
No match-ups feel truly lopsided. Feel like I have game against about every deck. A bit soft to Bogles/Auras but I haven't ran into it on MtGO or IRL yet. Have pretty close to 50/50 record against any given deck in the Competitive Leagues.
I am very rusty at the game, and have made a few misplays with the newer cards. Still remember all the sweet old interactions, though.
These splash-color lists I'm seeing are getting wild. I don't think I'd ever want to change anything about my main 60. I haven't cast Garruk Wildspeaker, yet. He's a flex spot trial against Path To Exile decks, UW specifically.
I'll be substituting one of the Unravel The Aether for a copy of Deglamer just because Nevermore exists and there is zero downside.
Hi, I really like your list and the choice of artifact/enchantment hate cards. There is nothing more infuriating than facing Ensnaring Bridge next to a Welding Jar.
I think that Scooze is generally better than Scavenger. Removing cards at instant speed is much more versatile, for example a Phoenix before opponent's combat. Or do you have a better experience with them? Maybe split 4 Scavengers for 2 Scooze and 2 Relic of Progenitus?
Also, how is Repudiate playing out for you?
How is running two Pendelhaven going for you? I like the idea of running it as a one-of to hedge against top-decking E1 or Pelt Collector (and I'm definitely going to pick one up), but I can't imagine running two (the approximately 1/25 chance of drawing completely dead T2/T3 if I already had one in play from a two-land start seems... uncomfortable). Or is float green, legend rule, tap for green enough to offset the loss most of the time?
Scavenging Ooze is one of our best cards when it's good but can be a bit mana-intensive. Deathgorge Scavenger let's the deck keep attacking. He's meant for the burn and Dredge match-ups. It's like...half Scavenging Ooze/half Kitchen Finks. I've considered 3 dino/1 Scooze split in the board, though.
Repudiate has been sweet! It's won a couple games against Amulet Titan. I even countered the bounce-a-land effect to keep his Tolaria West on the field that would have otherwise got a Summoner's Pact -> threat/blocker. It counters the first Ugin, The Spirit Dragon activation, Oblivion Stone, Wurmcoil Engine tokens, Primeval Titan search, Master Of Waves tokens, Slayers' Stronghold, Terminus miracle, etc. It's won a few games against opponents who tap out for a Planeswalker like Teferi, Hero Of Dominaria and I just counter the first activation and attack back for lethal. It counters Thing In The Ice flip, but the card doesn't feel otherwise relevant in those match-ups so I leave it out. The Phoenix match-up has felt pretty favorable.
Pendelhaven has absolutely pulled it's weight and the legend rule has never broke my mana. I've drawn two in a game a couple times but being able to float a mana and play the other is enough to curve out. Pendelhaven activation -> Rancor -> attack with a 4/3 on turn two when they left up Spell Snare mana feels good.
Thank you for the tips.