New Hollow One player here. I was wondering if adding a second Stomping Ground to the 60 would be beneficial. It would better ensure Ancient Grudge can be flashed back and could possibly allow for cards like Abrupt Decay in the SB. It would also make it possible to use Tasigur’s ability, though this isn’t a big motivation.
It seems like a small price to pay for some decent benefits, but I may very well be wrong.
Also, I’d love some help with myself SB if I can get it. Here’s what I’m running at the moment:
Finished the deck last week. Went 3-0 at todays Sunday Modern. There's usually a solid amount of people and 4 rounds, but this week we had 6. Oh well. I don't have much for notes, but this is the bare bones of what happened.
Sideboard:
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Big Game Hunter
2 Grim Lavamancer
3 Fatal Push
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Blood Moon
1 Collective Brutality
Round 1: Esper Mill (2-1, lost die roll)
Gotta race the mill. He never saw Ensnaring Bridge or Crypt Incursion. (Keeping triple delve dude hands with 1 land feels great!)
+: 2 Big Game Hunter, 2 Ancient Grudge, 2 Blood Moon
-: 2 Collective Brutality, 4 Lightning Bolt
Round 3: Counters Company (2-0, won die roll)
Hit a bunch of good Inquiries+Lores with Adepts and keeping a second dude off the board. Game 2 he was stuck on Gavony & Forest after I killed Noble Hierarch.
Disclaimer: All of the below pertains to my perspective on the RB build.
I have considered a second Stomping Grounds but I decided that's not correct. Normally T1 puts us at 17, and then Street Wraith knocks us around too. We definitely want both R and B by T2, and we have only 18 lands. Doubling the chances of a Mountain that hits us for 2 in our opening hand is not good. Abrupt Decay doesn't really seem needed for this deck, and actually casting it would certainly come with a lot of pain. To me, it's not worth the tradeoff of being more resistant to milling our only source of G away (or having it destroyed)--instead I think we just prioritize fetching it right away when we're expecting to need it.
Personally my sideboard is close to yours, but I think you need Brutality instead of Thoughtseize, unless you can be certain you don't have Burn in your local meta. I'm also not sold on Lili, since BB on T3 is far from guaranteed, and I'm not really sure what matches I'd want it in.
Souls is good but enchantments are not a huge problem in most metas, so it seems to me that Ancient Grudge is where we want to be for Lantern, KCI, and Affinity. Grudge is waaaaay better than the White artifact removal, due to its flashback.
I've played a lot of Lingering Souls in Modern (though never in this deck), but it's grindy card in a deck that is trying to win fast. Doesn't seem like a great fit, to me. I would probably want it in a meta with lots of Control decks in it, but right now my local meta is defined by Blood Moon and Ensnaring Bridge... which is exactly why I am playing this deck, with 2x EE and 3x Grudge in the 75.
I can’t imagine mass bounce for 3. I wonder about mass tap though - you can win a slugfest race if you can tap all your opponent creatures at instant speed, especially if they gets a ‘skip next untap’ rider. Icy Blast is the right idea but that sort of effect in a way that doesn’t need to scale mana with go wide opponents.
Any potential for fogs? Something like Angelsong can turn their alpha strike against you as their own death (or if fogging is inopportune can just be cycled for replacement or cycling-matters side benefits).
Yeah, I wouldn't change the EE/Lavamancer plan for Elves or Affinity (plus Grudge). You can shore up the matches further with Push. Personally, I'm more annoyed by the Boglea matchup, which is increasingly common online. I'm on the EE plus Lily plan, but it isn't a great one.
For real though, Sweltering Suns just seems better than Anger for us. Maybe not if your shop holds a lot of GW decks, but otherwise it's gotta considered almost strictly better. In my opinion.
I Have instead of street wraiths, the wraths are better. But there is some synergy that can be worked out if you can get enough reenters from GY.
they are less then perfect.
Perhaps the mass damage effect you want against elves is Flamebreak. No exile for your creatures, no regeneration for them, and even damages everybody to help speedup your clock. It will be less than ideal against flying creatures though.
Another trick is Drown in Sorrow, since creatures just go away if they're at 0 or negative toughness. Though it's less good against multiple lords.
Barrage of Boulders is quite interesting against any deck that might block your attacks with efficient blockers such as Gurmag Angler or by just filling the board of creatures (Humans or Elves). I have played 1 copy in my sideboard for quite some time and it has given me some wins in situations where any other card in my deck wouldn't
Disclaimer: All of the below pertains to my perspective on the RB build.
I have considered a second Stomping Grounds but I decided that's not correct. Normally T1 puts us at 17, and then Street Wraith knocks us around too. We definitely want both R and B by T2, and we have only 18 lands. Doubling the chances of a Mountain that hits us for 2 in our opening hand is not good. Abrupt Decay doesn't really seem needed for this deck, and actually casting it would certainly come with a lot of pain. To me, it's not worth the tradeoff of being more resistant to milling our only source of G away (or having it destroyed)--instead I think we just prioritize fetching it right away when we're expecting to need it.
Personally my sideboard is close to yours, but I think you need Brutality instead of Thoughtseize, unless you can be certain you don't have Burn in your local meta. I'm also not sold on Lili, since BB on T3 is far from guaranteed, and I'm not really sure what matches I'd want it in.
Thanks for the response. Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. I’m super unfamiliar with the deck. Really I’ve just modeled my SB after others that I’ve seen. I haven’t gotten enough matches in with the list to see what shines where. I know Lili is at least there for the Bogles MU.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MODERN: BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG EDH: BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
Gnaw to the Bone is the best option for lifegain, if playing green. But collective Brutality is so good against Burn that I've even considered splashing black on my GR build for it (the same way BR splashes green for Ancient Grudge).
I've recently dropped BTE from my build as it began to feel clunky the more matches I played. I really like the temur tech but I'm having a lot of success with this new list so I may postpone trying the U splash.
Lightning Axe comes in against Gurmag/Tasigur decks. Also useful against humans & GW.
Ghor-clan is an all-star against creature decks, especially since it can't be countered and gets through Eidolon of the Great Revel, Inquisition of kozilek, etc. Don't forget! GCR counts as a discarded card for the Jackal and Hollow One.
Simian Spirit Guide is my go-to against decks that might race me. Particularly for the Storm match.
Blood Moon is obviously great against Tron and Eldrazi but don't forget it slows down Humans and Jund also, which I consider to the most popular decks at the competitive REL
I'm gearing up for GP Vegas and I'm almost 100% solid on this list. Its kind of a GR take on the BR lineup, mostly because Vengevine is scarier than Bloodghast.
In Gruul colors I am not entirely happy with the available graveyard hate. Leyline of the Void, the best hate, becomes really bad drawing it, Scavenging Ooze is too slow, and my current hate, Tormod's Crypt is only good as a one-shot, but bad against continuous GY pressure. Also, most GY hate doesn't help you progressing. So, I was considering Dryad Militant as it is pro-active, and useful against many decks. The only loss for Gruul players would be a potential miss on flashing back a Faithless Looting. Thoughts?
Also, did anyone test Goblin Chainwhirler? I guess it will not be terrible as sideboard card as a one-of against various token strategies.
After not having played the deck for ~2 months, I played 2 Leagues, but they both went poorly (1-4), while I was used to a 75% win rate. Am I getting rusty or did the meta change?
Are you still on Gruul colors? Dryad Militant is an interesting consideration. Very good against Jeskai Control, for which I'm a little worried. They also have ample removal for it though. Let's think about which GY decks we are actually afraid of? There's always the mirror. But what else?
-Storm, but we have other ways to fight them
-Death's Shadow, and I think a one-shot from T-Crypt would be enough to blow out the game
-Even in the mirror, our decks are powerful enough without the graveyard to still apply pressure and win. Even in my Vengevine version I have won against a Rest in Peace. (Though it was lucky for me, and not likely)
If playing green there is another card I considered- Memory's Journey .. it can be easily pitched and then flashed back for only one Mana. It doesn't proactively stop things like Gurmag Angler however.
Thanks for the writeup and congrats on the performance. Very exciting report and interesting tech ideas. Some questions:
1. Courier is interesting. On the one hand, it gives the deck some reach going into the midgame against removal-heavy decks. On the other hand, I feel like it can be very slow against decks where speed is important. Are there particular metagames where you like Courier? Where do you think it is strongest and weakest?
2. Wargear is another interesting oddball but I see the upside against removal-heavy decks. It definitely overloads Jeskai/Mardu strategies and the ferocious synergy is strong. But I'd be worried about losing explosivity for faster games (it looks like you went -1 Lore for the Wargear), and even topdecking Wargear when we need to topdeck action in long games. Is this something you picked just for an anticipated metagame and is the opportunity cost of running it worth the inclusion?
3. Many people are using Souls as another resilient threat against interactive decks. What are the pros/cons of Wargear/Call vs. 2 MD Souls?
4. How do you like the MD Temper? I feel like they help both reach and removal, but worry that I'd rather the sticking power of +1 Phoenix/Angler. For instance, I feel like many of the matches against unfair decks really benefit from a T2 Angler/T3 Phoenix or T1 H1/T2 Phoenix opener, whereas Temper might be too slow. Do you have speed problems with this card or is it worth the hit due to its flexibility?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Over-Extended/Modern Since 2010
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
It seems like a small price to pay for some decent benefits, but I may very well be wrong.
Also, I’d love some help with myself SB if I can get it. Here’s what I’m running at the moment:
3x Ancient Grudge
1x Blood Moon
2x Thoughtseize
2x Fatal Push
2x Liliana of the Veil
3x Leyline of the Void
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
Sideboard:
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Big Game Hunter
2 Grim Lavamancer
3 Fatal Push
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Blood Moon
1 Collective Brutality
Round 1: Esper Mill (2-1, lost die roll)
Gotta race the mill. He never saw Ensnaring Bridge or Crypt Incursion. (Keeping triple delve dude hands with 1 land feels great!)
+: 1 Collective Brutality, 2 Blood Moon, 2 Ancient Grudge
-: Nothing
Round 2: Eldrazi Tron (2-1, lost die roll)
+: 2 Big Game Hunter, 2 Ancient Grudge, 2 Blood Moon
-: 2 Collective Brutality, 4 Lightning Bolt
Round 3: Counters Company (2-0, won die roll)
Hit a bunch of good Inquiries+Lores with Adepts and keeping a second dude off the board. Game 2 he was stuck on Gavony & Forest after I killed Noble Hierarch.
+: 1 Collective Brutality, 3 Fatal Push, 2 Grim Lavamancer
-: 1 Tasigur, 4 Bloodghast, 1 Street Wraith
I don't think my boarding for this deck was completely correct, but I have no complaints on how it handled the match up.
I have considered a second Stomping Grounds but I decided that's not correct. Normally T1 puts us at 17, and then Street Wraith knocks us around too. We definitely want both R and B by T2, and we have only 18 lands. Doubling the chances of a Mountain that hits us for 2 in our opening hand is not good. Abrupt Decay doesn't really seem needed for this deck, and actually casting it would certainly come with a lot of pain. To me, it's not worth the tradeoff of being more resistant to milling our only source of G away (or having it destroyed)--instead I think we just prioritize fetching it right away when we're expecting to need it.
Personally my sideboard is close to yours, but I think you need Brutality instead of Thoughtseize, unless you can be certain you don't have Burn in your local meta. I'm also not sold on Lili, since BB on T3 is far from guaranteed, and I'm not really sure what matches I'd want it in.
If you're not running Ancient grudge, then absolutely!
GR Eggs GR
UR Storm UR
BR Hollow One BR
WUR Cheerios WUR
G Mono-Green Control G
I've played a lot of Lingering Souls in Modern (though never in this deck), but it's grindy card in a deck that is trying to win fast. Doesn't seem like a great fit, to me. I would probably want it in a meta with lots of Control decks in it, but right now my local meta is defined by Blood Moon and Ensnaring Bridge... which is exactly why I am playing this deck, with 2x EE and 3x Grudge in the 75.
Any potential for fogs? Something like Angelsong can turn their alpha strike against you as their own death (or if fogging is inopportune can just be cycled for replacement or cycling-matters side benefits).
they are less then perfect.
4 Hollow One
4 prized Amalgam
4 Hellspark Elementen
4 Bloodghsst
, that works fine for me
Another trick is Drown in Sorrow, since creatures just go away if they're at 0 or negative toughness. Though it's less good against multiple lords.
Thanks for the response. Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. I’m super unfamiliar with the deck. Really I’ve just modeled my SB after others that I’ve seen. I haven’t gotten enough matches in with the list to see what shines where. I know Lili is at least there for the Bogles MU.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
Interesting call.
Here’s the list.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
I've recently dropped BTE from my build as it began to feel clunky the more matches I played. I really like the temur tech but I'm having a lot of success with this new list so I may postpone trying the U splash.
4 Vengevine
4 Street Wraith
4 Hollow One
4 Hooting Mandrills
4 Flamewake Phoenix
4 Flameblade Adept
4 Insolent Neonate
2 Reckless Bushwhacker
4 Burning Inquiry
4 Faithless Looting
4 Goblin Lore
Lands (18):
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Stomping Ground
3 Mountain
1 Forest
3 Ancient Grudge
3 Blood Moon
2 Gnaw to the Bone
3 Lightning Axe
2 Ghor-clan Rampager
2 Simian Spirit Guide
Lightning Axe comes in against Gurmag/Tasigur decks. Also useful against humans & GW.
Ghor-clan is an all-star against creature decks, especially since it can't be countered and gets through Eidolon of the Great Revel, Inquisition of kozilek, etc. Don't forget! GCR counts as a discarded card for the Jackal and Hollow One.
Simian Spirit Guide is my go-to against decks that might race me. Particularly for the Storm match.
Blood Moon is obviously great against Tron and Eldrazi but don't forget it slows down Humans and Jund also, which I consider to the most popular decks at the competitive REL
I'm gearing up for GP Vegas and I'm almost 100% solid on this list. Its kind of a GR take on the BR lineup, mostly because Vengevine is scarier than Bloodghast.
Draft My Cube!
Are you still on Gruul colors? Dryad Militant is an interesting consideration. Very good against Jeskai Control, for which I'm a little worried. They also have ample removal for it though. Let's think about which GY decks we are actually afraid of? There's always the mirror. But what else?
-Storm, but we have other ways to fight them
-Death's Shadow, and I think a one-shot from T-Crypt would be enough to blow out the game
-Even in the mirror, our decks are powerful enough without the graveyard to still apply pressure and win. Even in my Vengevine version I have won against a Rest in Peace. (Though it was lucky for me, and not likely)
If playing green there is another card I considered- Memory's Journey .. it can be easily pitched and then flashed back for only one Mana. It doesn't proactively stop things like Gurmag Angler however.
Draft My Cube!
Thanks for the writeup and congrats on the performance. Very exciting report and interesting tech ideas. Some questions:
1. Courier is interesting. On the one hand, it gives the deck some reach going into the midgame against removal-heavy decks. On the other hand, I feel like it can be very slow against decks where speed is important. Are there particular metagames where you like Courier? Where do you think it is strongest and weakest?
2. Wargear is another interesting oddball but I see the upside against removal-heavy decks. It definitely overloads Jeskai/Mardu strategies and the ferocious synergy is strong. But I'd be worried about losing explosivity for faster games (it looks like you went -1 Lore for the Wargear), and even topdecking Wargear when we need to topdeck action in long games. Is this something you picked just for an anticipated metagame and is the opportunity cost of running it worth the inclusion?
3. Many people are using Souls as another resilient threat against interactive decks. What are the pros/cons of Wargear/Call vs. 2 MD Souls?
4. How do you like the MD Temper? I feel like they help both reach and removal, but worry that I'd rather the sticking power of +1 Phoenix/Angler. For instance, I feel like many of the matches against unfair decks really benefit from a T2 Angler/T3 Phoenix or T1 H1/T2 Phoenix opener, whereas Temper might be too slow. Do you have speed problems with this card or is it worth the hit due to its flexibility?