Hi guys, just wanted to let you know i will be trying an UWg shell with cocos in the sideboard and unsettled mariner in the msinboard. Ill let you know if it works out
I personally do not like the way Discord is done, nor messenger chats nor facebook or whatsapp/telegram groups. I'll stick to any forum where we get access to hyper links and stuff like this.I need to have the discussion organized in pages with dates. I have tried almost everything else but I ended up finding them too messy, the content gets diluted too much, people spam a lot or they just write too many unnecessary messages because it's easy to type and send, you get eventually ovewhelmed with crap so the quality of the discussion is lower overall.
I like any format where some reasoning behind a deckbuilding choice gets presented and people take the time to think about it and answer if they feel like so, instead of throwing the first thing crossing their mind in the chat. This is why I ve always sticked to these forums.
I'll wait for the staff to present the new formula, then I'll consider all of the non-chat options available.
The new hogaak-bridgevine deck is unmanageable with the regular anti graveyard approach. I believe 4x rest in peace are necessary right now and I'm also testing Lavinia, azorius renegade as a tool to prevent Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis from being cast, while also disrupting tron
I think the real problem with using Lavinia, Azorius Renegade is that she's so damn narrow. She stops Hogaak, but not any of the other Bridgevine/Dredgevine shenanigans those decks run. She's strong against tron, but Spirits has access to better anti-tron options. She stops Terminus against control, but literally nothing else. She acts as Spell Queller insurance, but Teferi, Time Raveler does that better. She prevents us from using Force of Negation, too.
I'm actualy considering lavinia as a sideboard option to respond to the rise of bridgevine. the fact is that the 4th copy of rest in peace won't be of any wider use than the 1st copy of Lavinia. I've considered meddling mage too. I'm beginning to think 4x ways to stop hogaak are not enough to win g2 and g3 consistently, given that g1 is almost unwinnable if your opponent is decent at keeping their opening hands and know what they need to go off bt t3 or 4.
I'm actualy considering lavinia as a sideboard option to respond to the rise of bridgevine. the fact is that the 4th copy of rest in peace won't be of any wider use than the 1st copy of Lavinia. I've considered meddling mage too. I'm beginning to think 4x ways to stop hogaak are not enough to win g2 and g3 consistently, given that g1 is almost unwinnable if your opponent is decent at keeping their opening hands and know what they need to go off bt t3 or 4.
btw, i think any copy of rest in peace is much better than surgical extraction or lavinia, but i can understand why you don't want to play too many enchantments
No, tehy have too many threats and angles of attack: vengevines, bridges, hogaak. You get rid of one of them but still have to deal with all of the others. Also, surgical doesn't stop Hogaak from being cast because of the way the exchange of priority works. It just takes them to mill themselves and cast it without changing phase of the turn or putting other triggers or spells on the stack. Hogaak might be in the GY after they mill it, they delve/convoke it right away with you only having priority before the mill effect happens or after they have convoked the necropolis.
As for relics and clerics, they rebuild too fast to make it effective. I have never seen any deck rebuild the GY so quickly: relic taps can't keep up with the mass of cards hitting the bin, and once exiled it's gone. Same goes for Remorseful Cleric, it doesn't prevent delving and once it's gone it's gone.
No, tehy have too many threats and angles of attack: vengevines, bridges, hogaak. You get rid of one of them but still have to deal with all of the others. Also, surgical doesn't stop Hogaak from being cast because of the way the exchange of priority works. It just takes them to mill themselves and cast it without changing phase of the turn or putting other triggers or spells on the stack. Hogaak might be in the GY after they mill it, they delve/convoke it right away with you only having priority before the mill effect happens or after they have convoked the necropolis.
As for relics and clerics, they rebuild too fast to make it effective. I have never seen any deck rebuild the GY so quickly: relic taps can't keep up with the mass of cards hitting the bin, and once exiled it's gone. Same goes for Remorseful Cleric, it doesn't prevent delving and once it's gone it's gone.
This version has to be dealt with static effects.
Then why Lavinia? She also only stops one angle of attack, and she also costs 2 mana. Surgical Extraction at least stops any of the angles mentioned individually. Hogaak might be able to slip out from Surgical if your opponent pitches/mills him during their main phase, but there are a number of opportunities to get him. Any draw step dredge, any triggered ability while he's in the graveyard, and any sac outlet activation will let you surgical Hogaak.
I agree on surgical being better than lavinia in the bridgevine matchup. I was looking for a card able to provide some value outside the graveyard matchups too, because 4x anti graveyard cards look sooo much, this is why Meddling mage and Lavinia caught my interest.
btw, i think any copy of rest in peace is much better than surgical extraction or lavinia, but i can understand why you don't want to play too many enchantments
I've been thinking of switching Stony S. for a couple Ouphes too.. How has that change been for you?
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Modern // Legacy // Pauper WUBRG
"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
4 mausoleum wanderer
4 supreme phantom
4 selfless spirit
4 rattlechains
4 unsettled mariner
4 spell queller
4 drogskol captain
3 deputy of detention
Spells (8)
4 path to exile
4 aether vial
2 cavern of souls
4 flooded strand
3 misty rainforest
1 hallowed fountain
1 breeding pool
1 temple garden
2 island
1 plains
4 waterlogged grove
2 seachrome coast
3 collected company
3 rest in peace
2 stony silence
3 deprive
3 damping sphere
1 eidolon of rhetoric
Elves || GSpirits G || Spirits || Fish
Pauper
GElvesG || CAffinityC
Commander
G Roon (and the Hidden Realms) G
I like any format where some reasoning behind a deckbuilding choice gets presented and people take the time to think about it and answer if they feel like so, instead of throwing the first thing crossing their mind in the chat. This is why I ve always sticked to these forums.
I'll wait for the staff to present the new formula, then I'll consider all of the non-chat options available.
Modern // Legacy // Pauper
WUBRG
"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
WHoops, second Lavinia ability counters Hogaak. Seems potentially good
Nope, the second ability works on all spells.
Maybe It works...
Ps. I'm on esper spirits
Is Surgical Extraction not good enough?
4 mausoleum wanderer
4 selfless spirit
4 supreme phantom
2 remorseful cleric
4 drogskol captain
4 spell queller
2 deputy of detention
1 kira, great glass-spinner
3 aether vial
3 path to exile
4 collected company
4 flooded strand
3 misty rainforest
1 temple garden
1 breeding pool
1 hallowed fountain
2 island
1 plains
1 forest
3 waterlogged grove
1 horizon canopy
1 seachrome coast
3 rest in peace
2 collector ouphe
3 unified will
1 eidolon of rhetoric
1 thalia, guardian of thraben
3 damping sphere
2 knight of autumn
btw, i think any copy of rest in peace is much better than surgical extraction or lavinia, but i can understand why you don't want to play too many enchantments
Elves || GSpirits G || Spirits || Fish
Pauper
GElvesG || CAffinityC
Commander
G Roon (and the Hidden Realms) G
No, tehy have too many threats and angles of attack: vengevines, bridges, hogaak. You get rid of one of them but still have to deal with all of the others. Also, surgical doesn't stop Hogaak from being cast because of the way the exchange of priority works. It just takes them to mill themselves and cast it without changing phase of the turn or putting other triggers or spells on the stack. Hogaak might be in the GY after they mill it, they delve/convoke it right away with you only having priority before the mill effect happens or after they have convoked the necropolis.
As for relics and clerics, they rebuild too fast to make it effective. I have never seen any deck rebuild the GY so quickly: relic taps can't keep up with the mass of cards hitting the bin, and once exiled it's gone. Same goes for Remorseful Cleric, it doesn't prevent delving and once it's gone it's gone.
This version has to be dealt with static effects.
Then why Lavinia? She also only stops one angle of attack, and she also costs 2 mana. Surgical Extraction at least stops any of the angles mentioned individually. Hogaak might be able to slip out from Surgical if your opponent pitches/mills him during their main phase, but there are a number of opportunities to get him. Any draw step dredge, any triggered ability while he's in the graveyard, and any sac outlet activation will let you surgical Hogaak.
I've been thinking of switching Stony S. for a couple Ouphes too.. How has that change been for you?
Modern // Legacy // Pauper
WUBRG
"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
Some smal argument of birds over hiarchs for budget players.