Do most people on this forum still think that the U/W version of this deck is the superior version? I have only see the Bant version represented in the major tournaments lately.
I think what you see here is a discussion about what people is playing: they report the experience they have with their version of the deck and their own brew. For example, I'm committed to UW, so you'll read posts form me talking about UW only.
As for bant vs UW, bant has access to collected company and noble hierarch, possibly the two best green cards in modern, or two of the best three along with tarmogoyf if you prefer, which largely accounts for its superiority over the pure blue white version. Card advantage and acceleration are a thing in modern.
There's been a lot of testing of CO there lately, and we'd appreciate ya'lls input.
Also for those of you struggling with Phoenix decks and Tron, I'd highly recommend throwing 1-2 Damping Spheres in your SB. I love Eidolon of Rhetoric as well, but since SB space is so limited, I've found damping sphere to be the better card against Modern as a whole right now.
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I'm beginning to think UW near just loses against Bant when both are piloted by skilled players. And it's not the highly vulnerable CoCo that's the problem, it's Hierarch. The T! ramp is very good for Bant, but the exalted triggers make it a huge problem for UW. Exalted forces a choice between allowing chip shot damage, often for several turns, or unfavorable trades or chump blocks.
UW players, how do you deal with this dynamic? If you're like me then you run into Bant a lot, and this always makes the matchup feel very bad on my side of the table.
I'm trying a 4 color spirits, and I have to say, I'm loving it.
Strangleroot Geist and Eidolon of the Great Revel in my past games were doing it excelent. With vials playing Eidolon is one of my favorites plays. And most when they have low lifes and I control more creatures, with the threat of a queller.
And with geists, sometimes I had to force my oponent to do a wrath of god because of the lords, and that made them a huge headache for them.
I'm trying a 4 color spirits, and I have to say, I'm loving it.
Strangleroot Geist and Eidolon of the Great Revel in my past games were doing it excelent. With vials playing Eidolon is one of my favorites plays. And most when they have low lifes and I control more creatures, with the threat of a queller.
And with geists, sometimes I had to force my oponent to do a wrath of god because of the lords, and that made them a huge headache for them.
The only problem, that your build shares, is its manabase. Basically, you first need to decide wheter you want Collected Company (fetch/shock manabase) or Cavern of Souls/Unclaimed Territory. Unfortunately, it's an aut-aut, the two option are mutually exclusive since you only have 20 slots in which you have to fit 18 multicolour sources (that's what's necessary to reliably cast bloodghast and strangleroot geist) AND 10-ish sources of green for the coloured spell.
Second, you won't be able to cast collected company with 20 lands, i suggest you to go at least to 22, if not 23, especially because you don't have a mana dork.
My suggestion is, then, to abandon collected company in favor of a fully rainbow manabase and fill those slots with Dismember
Here's the list i propose to you
In my games I really didn't had any problems casting Collected. Most of the times I had a fetch in hand, whitch will fetch for any green combination of mana. There are 9 lands out of 20 that can provide the green source I need, fetches, shocks and forest.
The only I had once problems to cast, was Knight of Autumn, but it was only 1 time from all my games played, because of caverns and territories, but it cames very powerful along with Eidolon when opponent and me are low health thanks to vials. I will keep it inside after all.
I was thinking of adding 1 or 2 Reflecting Pool, but it's a bit dangerous. With slivers, sometimes I drew both reflecting on my opening hand, ouch. Ancient would be a nice one, but it will cut 1 mana for collected.
Also, I was thinking of making it 5 color with bloodghast, but I think it's better this way.
What does everybody think about Incubation // Incongruity. Mainly the Incubation half of the spell. Could this help us with card selection, or is the sorcery speed too much of a down side ?
Incubation
[U/G]
Sorcery
Look at the top five cards of your library. You may reveal a creature card from among them and put it into your hand. Put the rest on the bottom of the library in a random order.
Incongruity
1UG
Instant
Exile target creature. That creature's controller creates a 3/3 green Frog Lizard creature token.
2-1 against Storm
2-1 against Jund
0-2 against Humans
2-1 against Hollow One
I thought my match up against Humans would be good but I got crushed. I did not really have anything to side in against Humans. At the very least I did not know what the best strategy would be for siding against Humans. How is everyone else doing against Humans? Do you have any tips for me in this match up both in siding and playing in general?
kira and phantasmal image don't work with curious obsession, maybe you could remove some kiras? in many matchups, including humans, kira is just a 2/2 flyer for 3 (a wind drake).
You could either run more nebelgast heralds, which are extremely good against humans, or topplegeist as an additional 1-drop to enchant with curious obsession. IMHO you should run 4 curious obsession anyway since the card is soo good that you possibly want it in multiples
What does everybody think about Incubation // Incongruity. Mainly the Incubation half of the spell. Could this help us with card selection, or is the sorcery speed too much of a down side ?
Incubation
[U/G]
Sorcery
Look at the top five cards of your library. You may reveal a creature card from among them and put it into your hand. Put the rest on the bottom of the library in a random order.
Incongruity
1UG
Instant
Exile target creature. That creature's controller creates a 3/3 green Frog Lizard creature token.
very interesting card. I doubt it will work in bant since it's a noncreature, but it might just work in UW.
In my games I really didn't had any problems casting Collected. Most of the times I had a fetch in hand, whitch will fetch for any green combination of mana. There are 9 lands out of 20 that can provide the green source I need, fetches, shocks and forest.
The only I had once problems to cast, was Knight of Autumn, but it was only 1 time from all my games played, because of caverns and territories, but it cames very powerful along with Eidolon when opponent and me are low health thanks to vials. I will keep it inside after all.
I was thinking of adding 1 or 2 Reflecting Pool, but it's a bit dangerous. With slivers, sometimes I drew both reflecting on my opening hand, ouch. Ancient would be a nice one, but it will cut 1 mana for collected.
Also, I was thinking of making it 5 color with bloodghast, but I think it's better this way.
if you want to keep company in the deck (something i don't agree with) at least think about getting to 23 lands, you really need to hit the fourth land in time. Also, imho you should move towards a more heavily fetch/shock manabase, maybe sacrificing some unclaimed territory and keeping the 4 cavern of souls
I also suggest you to keep some removals in the sideboard, i'd go with path to exile
What does everybody think about Incubation // Incongruity. Mainly the Incubation half of the spell. Could this help us with card selection, or is the sorcery speed too much of a down side ?
Incubation
[U/G]
Sorcery
Look at the top five cards of your library. You may reveal a creature card from among them and put it into your hand. Put the rest on the bottom of the library in a random order.
Incongruity
1UG
Instant
Exile target creature. That creature's controller creates a 3/3 green Frog Lizard creature token.
very interesting card. I doubt it will work in bant since it's a noncreature, but it might just work in UW.
I'm really wondering how it would measure up against serum visions in UW Vial Spirits. Serum visions making you draw first and then scry has always seemed really weird, but it's still the go-to 1 mana cantrip for most decks.
Also, would it be worth it to splash green for some turn 3-4 removal in UW Vial Spirits with the Incongruity half of the card? Maybe something like...
So I’ve been playing u/w spirits for a while, and recently went into bant. I love it, but I’m not nuts about reflector mage. How are you guys feeling about it, and would more rattlechains/nebelghast/selfless spirit not be better in it’s place?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
They call me Hank Hill because I bring the pro-pain.
Honestly, no. I haven't perfected the art of building a manabase, so I was just trying to come up with something that made sense. Your manabase meets all the criteria I was going for and is much less painful in potential.
I've been looking at a few test hands with the new card, and it's weird. I think you'd normally be happy with card selection, but not having a Turn 1 Mausoleum Wanderer or Aether Vial seems really bad.
Round 1:
2-1 vs UW Control - Mausoleums and Quellers did all the job.
Round 2:
2-0 vs BW Zombies - Bigger creatures with flying win the game.
Round 3:
0-2 vs Dredge - First game he won me easy. At game 2 I left him at 1 life, and couldn't get that life thanks to that spell of gaining 3 life and me losing them.
Round 4:
2-0 vs Marvel Aetherwork - It was an easy game. Quellers could stop his marvel.
I have to say that today I didn't found any red Eidolon, but Strangleroot Geist did work splendid. I didn't had any mana trouble, and I could always cast Collected Company.
I really enjoyed this deck. Finished second and won an UMA booster, which gave me a Liliana of the Veil
This is what I'm looking at for my deck to start the year.
Slots I'm looking to flex on.
3 Thalia, critical? I think thats largely a meta call I suppose. Condemn in the side, is really only there for GDS, however I dont much life gain, or removal, could throw in Settle.
This is what I'm looking at for my deck to start the year.
Slots I'm looking to flex on.
3 Thalia, critical? I think thats largely a meta call I suppose. Condemn in the side, is really only there for GDS, however I dont much life gain, or removal, could throw in Settle.
I really like thalia, her power is very underappreciated because people can't determine how much work she puts in the games she's involved in. I'm not sure about geist of saint traft as it's very meta-dependent, you might prefer nebelgast herald if there were more creature/midrange matchups and less control/combo.
Against grixis death's shadow, condemn seems a bit winmore as you already have blessed alliance which can be used to make the opponents gain 4 life, thus shrinking or killing death's shadow (also the sacrifice mode is relevant). I personally respect their stubborn denials and thus prefer creatures that can interact, like nebelgast herald or reflector mage
meddling mage is not that necessary imho, your configuration has enough ways to beat control
One last thing: i suggest you to have some bounce or disenchant effect in your 75, like echoing truth, because otherwise you don't have ways to defeat a resolved ensnaring bridge
btw, after Ravnica Allegiance spoilers (in which there hopefully be some useful spirits) i will make a call for whoever is willing to help updating the primer
I think what you see here is a discussion about what people is playing: they report the experience they have with their version of the deck and their own brew. For example, I'm committed to UW, so you'll read posts form me talking about UW only.
As for bant vs UW, bant has access to collected company and noble hierarch, possibly the two best green cards in modern, or two of the best three along with tarmogoyf if you prefer, which largely accounts for its superiority over the pure blue white version. Card advantage and acceleration are a thing in modern.
https://discord.gg/VdmtKa
There's been a lot of testing of CO there lately, and we'd appreciate ya'lls input.
Also for those of you struggling with Phoenix decks and Tron, I'd highly recommend throwing 1-2 Damping Spheres in your SB. I love Eidolon of Rhetoric as well, but since SB space is so limited, I've found damping sphere to be the better card against Modern as a whole right now.
Help please
Else, just quote this message in order to see how it's written
20 forest
Elves || GSpirits G || Spirits || Fish
Pauper
GElvesG || CAffinityC
Commander
G Roon (and the Hidden Realms) G
UW players, how do you deal with this dynamic? If you're like me then you run into Bant a lot, and this always makes the matchup feel very bad on my side of the table.
Strangleroot Geist and Eidolon of the Great Revel in my past games were doing it excelent. With vials playing Eidolon is one of my favorites plays. And most when they have low lifes and I control more creatures, with the threat of a queller.
And with geists, sometimes I had to force my oponent to do a wrath of god because of the lords, and that made them a huge headache for them.
Here is my list:
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Forest
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Unclaimed Territory
2 Flooded Strand
2 Windswept Heath
2 Stomping Ground
1 Breeding Pool
1 Temple Garden
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Supreme phantom
4 Drogskol Captain
4 Spell Queller
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
3 Rattlechains
2 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Selfless Spirit
1 Knight of Autumn
Other Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Collected Company
2 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
3 Unified Will
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Remorseful Cleric
2 Worship
i really like your take! i brewed with a "parallel" version using bloodghast instead of eidolon of the great revel, and it was a ton of fun!
The only problem, that your build shares, is its manabase. Basically, you first need to decide wheter you want Collected Company (fetch/shock manabase) or Cavern of Souls/Unclaimed Territory. Unfortunately, it's an aut-aut, the two option are mutually exclusive since you only have 20 slots in which you have to fit 18 multicolour sources (that's what's necessary to reliably cast bloodghast and strangleroot geist) AND 10-ish sources of green for the coloured spell.
Second, you won't be able to cast collected company with 20 lands, i suggest you to go at least to 22, if not 23, especially because you don't have a mana dork.
My suggestion is, then, to abandon collected company in favor of a fully rainbow manabase and fill those slots with Dismember
Here's the list i propose to you
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Unclaimed Territory
4 Mana Confluence
2 Reflecting Pool
2 Ancient Ziggurat
4 Horizon Canopy
Creatures
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Supreme phantom
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Bloodghast
4 Rattlechains
4 Selfless Spirit
2 Phantasmal Image
4 Drogskol Captain
4 Spell Queller
4 Aether Vial
2 Dismember
3 damping sphere
3 eidolon of the great revel
3 remorseful cleric
3 gaddock teeg
3 knight of autumn
Elves || GSpirits G || Spirits || Fish
Pauper
GElvesG || CAffinityC
Commander
G Roon (and the Hidden Realms) G
The only I had once problems to cast, was Knight of Autumn, but it was only 1 time from all my games played, because of caverns and territories, but it cames very powerful along with Eidolon when opponent and me are low health thanks to vials. I will keep it inside after all.
I was thinking of adding 1 or 2 Reflecting Pool, but it's a bit dangerous. With slivers, sometimes I drew both reflecting on my opening hand, ouch. Ancient would be a nice one, but it will cut 1 mana for collected.
Also, I was thinking of making it 5 color with bloodghast, but I think it's better this way.
Incubation
[U/G]
Sorcery
Look at the top five cards of your library. You may reveal a creature card from among them and put it into your hand. Put the rest on the bottom of the library in a random order.
Incongruity
1UG
Instant
Exile target creature. That creature's controller creates a 3/3 green Frog Lizard creature token.
4 Drogskol Captain
3 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
1 Nebelgast Herald
2 Phantasmal Image
4 Rattlechains
4 Selfless Spirit
4 Spell Queller
4 Supreme Phantom
Lands
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Flooded Strand
1 Glacial Fortress
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
1 Moorland Haunt
4 Mutavault
1 Plains
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Path to Exile
3 Curious Obsession
4 Aether Vial
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Guist of Saint Traft
1 Nikko-Onna
2 Stony Silence
3 Deprive
2 Rest in Peace
1 Echoing Truth
1 Damping Sphere
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Worship
2-1 against Storm
2-1 against Jund
0-2 against Humans
2-1 against Hollow One
I thought my match up against Humans would be good but I got crushed. I did not really have anything to side in against Humans. At the very least I did not know what the best strategy would be for siding against Humans. How is everyone else doing against Humans? Do you have any tips for me in this match up both in siding and playing in general?
Also any suggestions on my list?
You could either run more nebelgast heralds, which are extremely good against humans, or topplegeist as an additional 1-drop to enchant with curious obsession. IMHO you should run 4 curious obsession anyway since the card is soo good that you possibly want it in multiples
very interesting card. I doubt it will work in bant since it's a noncreature, but it might just work in UW.
if you want to keep company in the deck (something i don't agree with) at least think about getting to 23 lands, you really need to hit the fourth land in time. Also, imho you should move towards a more heavily fetch/shock manabase, maybe sacrificing some unclaimed territory and keeping the 4 cavern of souls
I also suggest you to keep some removals in the sideboard, i'd go with path to exile
4 cavern of souls
4 wooded foothills
3 scalding tarn
3 flooded strand
2 stomping ground
1 hallowed fountain
1 breeding pool
1 temple garden
1 sacred foundry
1 steam vents
1 island
1 forest
Elves || GSpirits G || Spirits || Fish
Pauper
GElvesG || CAffinityC
Commander
G Roon (and the Hidden Realms) G
I'm really wondering how it would measure up against serum visions in UW Vial Spirits. Serum visions making you draw first and then scry has always seemed really weird, but it's still the go-to 1 mana cantrip for most decks.
Also, would it be worth it to splash green for some turn 3-4 removal in UW Vial Spirits with the Incongruity half of the card? Maybe something like...
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Supreme Phantom
4 Rattlechains
4 Selfless Spirit
1 Remorseful Cleric
2 Phantasmal Image
4 Drogskol Captain
4 Spell Queller
2 Nebelgast Herald
3 Path to Exile
Sorcery (4)
4 Incubation // Incongruity
Artifact (4)
4 Aether Vial
Land (20)
2 flooded strand
2 windswept heath
2 misty rainforest
4 hallowed fountain
3 breeding pool
2 temple garden
1 island
1 plains
1 forest
1 cavern of souls
1 moorland haunt
2 flooded strand
2 windswept heath
2 misty rainforest
1 hallowed fountain
1 breeding pool
1 temple garden
1 island
1 plains
1 forest
3 seachrome coast
2 botanical sanctum
1 horizon canopy
1 cavern of souls
1 moorland haunt
i prefer horizon canopy to razorverge thicket but these are interchangeable
Elves || GSpirits G || Spirits || Fish
Pauper
GElvesG || CAffinityC
Commander
G Roon (and the Hidden Realms) G
I've been looking at a few test hands with the new card, and it's weird. I think you'd normally be happy with card selection, but not having a Turn 1 Mausoleum Wanderer or Aether Vial seems really bad.
Decklist:
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Forest
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Unclaimed Territory
2 Flooded Strand
2 Windswept Heath
2 Stomping Ground
1 Breeding Pool
1 Temple Garden
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Supreme phantom
4 Drogskol Captain
4 Spell Queller
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
3 Rattlechains
2 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Selfless Spirit
1 Knight of Autumn
Other Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Collected Company
2 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
3 Unified Will
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Remorseful Cleric
2 Worship
Round 1:
2-1 vs UW Control - Mausoleums and Quellers did all the job.
Round 2:
2-0 vs BW Zombies - Bigger creatures with flying win the game.
Round 3:
0-2 vs Dredge - First game he won me easy. At game 2 I left him at 1 life, and couldn't get that life thanks to that spell of gaining 3 life and me losing them.
Round 4:
2-0 vs Marvel Aetherwork - It was an easy game. Quellers could stop his marvel.
I have to say that today I didn't found any red Eidolon, but Strangleroot Geist did work splendid. I didn't had any mana trouble, and I could always cast Collected Company.
I really enjoyed this deck. Finished second and won an UMA booster, which gave me a Liliana of the Veil
Modern // Legacy // Pauper
WUBRG
"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
This is what I'm looking at for my deck to start the year.
Slots I'm looking to flex on.
3 Thalia, critical? I think thats largely a meta call I suppose. Condemn in the side, is really only there for GDS, however I dont much life gain, or removal, could throw in Settle.
The Field is there for Tron.
4 Flooded Strand
4 Seachrome Coast
2 Island
2 Plains
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Field of Ruin
1 Mutavault
1 Moorland Haunt
//Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 Blessed Alliance
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
//Spirits
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Rattlechains
4 Selfless Spirit
1 Remorseful Cleric
4 Supreme Phantom
4 Drogskol Captain
4 Spell Queller
2 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Damping Sphere
3 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Eidolon of Rhetoric
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Condemn
2 Dispel
Spirits
Spirits
I really like thalia, her power is very underappreciated because people can't determine how much work she puts in the games she's involved in. I'm not sure about geist of saint traft as it's very meta-dependent, you might prefer nebelgast herald if there were more creature/midrange matchups and less control/combo.
Against grixis death's shadow, condemn seems a bit winmore as you already have blessed alliance which can be used to make the opponents gain 4 life, thus shrinking or killing death's shadow (also the sacrifice mode is relevant). I personally respect their stubborn denials and thus prefer creatures that can interact, like nebelgast herald or reflector mage
meddling mage is not that necessary imho, your configuration has enough ways to beat control
One last thing: i suggest you to have some bounce or disenchant effect in your 75, like echoing truth, because otherwise you don't have ways to defeat a resolved ensnaring bridge
btw, after Ravnica Allegiance spoilers (in which there hopefully be some useful spirits) i will make a call for whoever is willing to help updating the primer
Elves || GSpirits G || Spirits || Fish
Pauper
GElvesG || CAffinityC
Commander
G Roon (and the Hidden Realms) G