Hey guys, long time no see! I've been fairly busy with school, but now that that's done for the semester, I have some more time for Magic. Anyways, it looks like new Teferi is a card that I'll need to look at trying out in my ester list, but what are peoples' thoughts on Despark? It looks great for the deck as a complement to fatal push, and deals with most of the bothersome/annoying threats out there (arclight phoenix, crackling drake, karn liberated, Jace the mind sculptor, etc...) The only time I think it would be bad would be against dredge and burn, but there are enough tools to be able to deal with those decks already. I'm thinking of trying a 2:1 split of Despark and Path to Exile to alongside my 3x fatal push. Has anyone experimented with this? What are your thoughts?
I'm building Esper right now, but Despark seems firmly like a sideboard card to me. It doesn't hit Thing, Shadow, Goyf, Bridge, Chalice, Blood Moon, Liliana of the Veil, Liliana LH, etc. which is a pretty big issue for a mainboard removal card. I'd rather keep one or two in the board; removal wise, I'm trying a single copy of Cast Down, three Paths, and two Pushes.
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Current Modern Decks BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends." BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved." RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros." BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?" C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
I'm less sold on Collective Brutality currently, though I'm willing to experiment with one copy. The issue is that it doesn't hit any good targets that couldn't be more efficiently dealt with via fatal push, and the other modes aren't always helpful either. I still think Despark could be good, at least in the sideboard, though I'm uncertain of whether I'd rather have it orDisdainful Strokethere.I'm also experimenting with 1x Blast Zone in the main and 1x Sorin, Vengeful Bloodlord in the sideboard as an extra toolbox card. Thoughts?
I'm less sold on Collective Brutality currently, though I'm willing to experiment with one copy. The issue is that it doesn't hit any good targets that couldn't be more efficiently dealt with via fatal push, and the other modes aren't always helpful either. I still think Despark could be good, at least in the sideboard, though I'm uncertain of whether I'd rather have it orDisdainful Strokethere.I'm also experimenting with 1x Blast Zone in the main and 1x Sorin, Vengeful Bloodlord in the sideboard as an extra toolbox card. Thoughts?
I've been trying out Blast Zone over Moorland Haunt, and I have been impressed by it, for the most part. I've pulled some critical swings against Humans with it a few times, and it at least taps for mana even when useless.
As for Despark versus Disdainful Stroke, stroke is much better against Tron, UW Control, and Titan Shift, while despark is better against Phoenix, and the two are roughly equal against Amulet Titan. Hitting Terminus and being able to head off the first loyalty ability activation from planeswalkers is huge for stroke, and being countermagic lets it hit X spells such as Walking Ballista and Whir of Invention. Despark does have more fluid timing options than countermagic, which is especially important given how the Esper version of Spirits tends to run sorceries.
UW can find room quite easily. I think you cut back on -2 Rattlchains, -1 Selfless Spirit, -1 TGoT. Between another 1 drop and more resilience, it seems like a strong addition.
This new "mother of runes" looks really interesting as a second one-drop for the UW build.
Yeah, but what would go out for it? All of our non-land cards are removal, vials, the indispensable Thalia, and the actual spirits.
I've not played much spirits, or magic in general, in the past few weeks/months and when i do i usually play Bant rather than UW so i'm afraid but i don't have an exact answer yet..
Personally i would start trimming some number of images, selfless spirits or rattlechains, just as redtwister mentioned above.
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Modern // Legacy // Pauper WUBRG
"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
Kaya's Guile and a couple of playable 1drops ( not necessarily spirits, but something to help generating active disruption) could make Esper Spirits a real deck.
I've jumped on UW control recently, getting to see what Spirits lacks: a solid way to push the aggro plan from the beginnning to the mid game. The 1cmc drop is simply necessary to sit and talk about the deck, bant has got hierarch and vials, uw, esper and jeskai need their own. Then there's an issue with the versatility that cards like Cryptic and Jace provide to UW control, because they either do a number of thing or draw you a number of cards where you can find stuff to do the number of things you want. This is also true for Teferi Hero and will be true for Archmage's charm.
Now Kaya's guile is huge at providing versatility, it gains life, touches graveyards, builds board, check opponent's board,but most importantly its an istant! I've always valued Nebelghast herald so much for its instant speed nature, which allowed me to hold up queller and then flash it in to keep developing my board without wasting a queller for no value. This is just as good as you can ask for from a spell. Not sure if the second copy of Guile is replacing one of our copies of lingering souls, lingering is a key card, but i'd say 2 in the 75s are the point I want to start from, one of which MB.
Recently, the 3cmc slot has been injected with so many cards that it's hard to find space now, Teferi TR is one of these and its mainboard presence is quite relevant for its insane interaction with queller and hexproof providers, as much as the possibility it gives us not to instant scoop to ensnaring bridges and such.
Let's see the rest of the spoilers and let's hope.
Edit: we ve also got silent clearing which I'll be trying in two copies to make the deck a little bit more consistent.
Kaya's Guile is huge! I really like this card and i might shift the deck a little bit from what ive played before. Dropping Souls for an instant speed one sided fleshbag marauder with other upsides? Im in for testing this...
Unearth will be modern legal. Another card ill try to play with TTR
As someone getting into spirits (having occasionally looked at this thread for inspiration) I feel Soulherder would work better in this deck than Unsettled Mariner. Being able to wipe the opponent's board with a Settle the Wreckage while buffing Soulherder will help close out games. My only issues with Soulherder are it's mana cost, as the 3 drop slot seems a bit crowded, and its lack of flying
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Currently Playing:
Standard - Some kind of control
Modern - UB Mill (casual)
EDH - Meren's Grave Shenanigans
I think Soulherder is a UW Taxes/Flicker card and no Spririt Card. It will be awesome with Reflector Mage, Flickerwisp and Blade splicer. Id definetly revisit my UW Flicker Deck after MH Release
As someone getting into spirits (having occasionally looked at this thread for inspiration) I feel Soulherder would work better in this deck than Unsettled Mariner. Being able to wipe the opponent's board with a Settle the Wreckage while buffing Soulherder will help close out games. My only issues with Soulherder are it's mana cost, as the 3 drop slot seems a bit crowded, and its lack of flying
Except in Spirits Soulherder is just a non-evasive 3 CMC 1/1 that grows. Pretty much all of the ETB triggers used in the deck are either timing-dependent or some form of temporary removal, so it's just a big ground threat that dies to Gut Shot without support. I sure as heck don't want to spend 3 mana on that, and it gains little from Vial.
After testing some Mh1 spirits I'm totally fond on Force of Negation. (In UW)
We GOT to play it as a 4-of.
It wins us the game instantly against Faithless Looting decks, Combo decks, it negates most of tron threats and is quite good since it can still be a cc3 negate.
I agree on the 24 creature shell, I actually prefer Nebelgast as 25th in replacement of a pte which is awful really early game, I missed Push so badly. Herald is also a blue card for Force.
My intent was to try a draw-go shell with the more blue cards as possible, with Teferi to play the tempo role, acting as a tempo answer to anything, complementing paths and herald in the management of the board, with remand to provide some extra tempo, drawing me cards, and Hieroglyphic as a flexible card advantage engine.
Hiero is worth spending a couple words about: it cycles in the early game at need, it's an instant which makes it excellent with vial, and helps you get some gas during the mid game against grindy matchups. Casted it against Rock, it's been more than decent, although it's not lingering souls...
I think Hiero may play a role along with Force of Negation, because that card clearly slows down the game so it's more likely that you end up hitting 4 mana to cast Illumination and recover tha card disadvantage. I value the cycling sooo much that i think it's a strictly better option than fact or fiction. Being able to spend it in the first 3 turns is the reason why you can consider it in your deck.
So I'm pretty pleased with my 3-1 and the further testing against tron and UW control. Tron is a bit more favorable now cause karn Creator is a good Queller target. UW control is almost a bye because they moved away from terminus and we can run Teferi TR mainboard. That was really embarassing to see narset, jace and their teferi getting outvalued by my vial-teferi plan.
As for lands, I got convinced UW needs utility and advantage, so 2 Moorlands are stock, now way around it, we need to recycle our stuff at instant speed, ad 2x mutavault seem just fine to spend the extra mana and add extra pressure. I also like the Farmland instead of the second Fountain because I'm greedy, I want to draw at instant speed with vial up and I like the mini combo with deprive.
I believe 2x Forces will give a very nice boost to UW spirits, they'll help playing the tempo game. Not sold on the Rchmage's Charm, I need cheap spells to curve out and tempo out my opponent.
I have got positive feelings about UW Spirits, Teferi and the relatively good position of remand in the meta with control and tron tier 1 make it possible to shape the type of tribal deck I like, Spirits and tempo spells, no shenanigans, no fugazi, no compromises with copters, thalias and deputies ( very relevant downfall of whirl decks being shut down by the static ability of Karn make them less impactful). Force is really pushing us into a beatdown early sequence, curious to see how the successful lists will look like.
By the way, my dream of a one drop entering the battlefield scrying 1 or 2 has almost came true. Too bad they decided to make it a faerie instad of a spirit. That would have been all we needd to curve out smoothly and go off consistently.
BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends."
BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved."
RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."
UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros."
BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?"
C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
I've been trying out Blast Zone over Moorland Haunt, and I have been impressed by it, for the most part. I've pulled some critical swings against Humans with it a few times, and it at least taps for mana even when useless.
As for Despark versus Disdainful Stroke, stroke is much better against Tron, UW Control, and Titan Shift, while despark is better against Phoenix, and the two are roughly equal against Amulet Titan. Hitting Terminus and being able to head off the first loyalty ability activation from planeswalkers is huge for stroke, and being countermagic lets it hit X spells such as Walking Ballista and Whir of Invention. Despark does have more fluid timing options than countermagic, which is especially important given how the Esper version of Spirits tends to run sorceries.
4x Drogskol Captain
1x Bygone Bishop
4x Mausoleum Wanderer
4x Rattlechains
3x Selfless Spirit
4x Spell Queller
4x Supreme Phantom
2x Remorseful Cleric
Non creature (13)
4x Aether Vial
3x Path to Exile
1x Declaration in Stone
2x Teferi, Time Raveler
3x Lingering Souls
1x Cavern of Souls
3x Flooded Strand
1x Hallowed Fountain
2x Island
1x Blast Zone
2x Plains
4x Polluted Delta
2x Seachrome Coast
1x Darkslick Shores
1x Swamp
1x Godless Shrine
1x Watery Grave
1x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Blessed Alliance
1x Liliana's Triumph
2x Disdainful Stroke
2x Eidolon of Rhetoric
1x Sorin, Vengeful Bloodlord
1x Geist of Saint Traft
2x Rest in Peace
1x Settle the Wreckage
2x Stony Silence
2x Deputy of Detention
Modern // Legacy // Pauper
WUBRG
"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
Yeah, but what would go out for it? All of our non-land cards are removal, vials, the indispensable Thalia, and the actual spirits.
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Spell Queller
4 Supreme Phantom
4 Giver of Runes
4 Drogskol Captain
2 Rattlechains
3 Deputy of Detention
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Lands (21)
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Flooded Strand
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Moorland Haunt
1 Mutavault
1 Mystic Gate
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Aether Vial
1 Smuggler's Copter
3 Path to Exile
3 Damping Sphere
2 Auriok Champion
1 Deputy of Detention
3 Rest in Peace
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Path to Exile
1 Settle the Wreckage
2 Geist of Saint Traft
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I've not played much spirits, or magic in general, in the past few weeks/months and when i do i usually play Bant rather than UW so i'm afraid but i don't have an exact answer yet..
Personally i would start trimming some number of images, selfless spirits or rattlechains, just as redtwister mentioned above.
Modern // Legacy // Pauper
WUBRG
"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
I've jumped on UW control recently, getting to see what Spirits lacks: a solid way to push the aggro plan from the beginnning to the mid game. The 1cmc drop is simply necessary to sit and talk about the deck, bant has got hierarch and vials, uw, esper and jeskai need their own. Then there's an issue with the versatility that cards like Cryptic and Jace provide to UW control, because they either do a number of thing or draw you a number of cards where you can find stuff to do the number of things you want. This is also true for Teferi Hero and will be true for Archmage's charm.
Now Kaya's guile is huge at providing versatility, it gains life, touches graveyards, builds board, check opponent's board,but most importantly its an istant! I've always valued Nebelghast herald so much for its instant speed nature, which allowed me to hold up queller and then flash it in to keep developing my board without wasting a queller for no value. This is just as good as you can ask for from a spell. Not sure if the second copy of Guile is replacing one of our copies of lingering souls, lingering is a key card, but i'd say 2 in the 75s are the point I want to start from, one of which MB.
Recently, the 3cmc slot has been injected with so many cards that it's hard to find space now, Teferi TR is one of these and its mainboard presence is quite relevant for its insane interaction with queller and hexproof providers, as much as the possibility it gives us not to instant scoop to ensnaring bridges and such.
Let's see the rest of the spoilers and let's hope.
Edit: we ve also got silent clearing which I'll be trying in two copies to make the deck a little bit more consistent.
Unearth will be modern legal. Another card ill try to play with TTR
Standard - Some kind of control
Modern - UB Mill (casual)
EDH - Meren's Grave Shenanigans
Except in Spirits Soulherder is just a non-evasive 3 CMC 1/1 that grows. Pretty much all of the ETB triggers used in the deck are either timing-dependent or some form of temporary removal, so it's just a big ground threat that dies to Gut Shot without support. I sure as heck don't want to spend 3 mana on that, and it gains little from Vial.
http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/129814
We GOT to play it as a 4-of.
It wins us the game instantly against Faithless Looting decks, Combo decks, it negates most of tron threats and is quite good since it can still be a cc3 negate.
We now have interation while tapped out.
A basic 24 spirits shell is the way to go imho.
A rough draft of the deck could be
4 M Wanderer
4 Rattle
4 Selfless
4 Supreme
4 Queller
4 Drogskol
4 Vial
4 PtE
4 Force of Negation
4 Flex Spells
20 lands
Those flex spells could be a selection of remands, cryptic commands, archmage charms and Pierces, snares or any counter really.
We just need SOME spirits to win while grinding and while them protect each others. We got to play the real tempo game. I'm so excited guys
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Selfless Spirit
4 Rattlechains
4 Supreme Phantom
4 Spell Queller
4 Drogskol Captain
1 Nebelgast Herald
Spells: 14
4 Aether Vial
3 Path to Exile
1 Curious Obsession
2 Remand
2 Teferi, Time Raveler
2 Hieroglyphic Illumination
4 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Irrigated Farmland
4 Seachrome Coast
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Mutavault
2 Moorland haunt
1 Stony Silence
2 Damping Sphere
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Rest In Peace
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Unified Will
1 Deprive
1 Nimble Obstructionist
1 Mark of Asylum
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Detention Sphere
1 Echoing Truth
I agree on the 24 creature shell, I actually prefer Nebelgast as 25th in replacement of a pte which is awful really early game, I missed Push so badly. Herald is also a blue card for Force.
My intent was to try a draw-go shell with the more blue cards as possible, with Teferi to play the tempo role, acting as a tempo answer to anything, complementing paths and herald in the management of the board, with remand to provide some extra tempo, drawing me cards, and Hieroglyphic as a flexible card advantage engine.
Hiero is worth spending a couple words about: it cycles in the early game at need, it's an instant which makes it excellent with vial, and helps you get some gas during the mid game against grindy matchups. Casted it against Rock, it's been more than decent, although it's not lingering souls...
I think Hiero may play a role along with Force of Negation, because that card clearly slows down the game so it's more likely that you end up hitting 4 mana to cast Illumination and recover tha card disadvantage. I value the cycling sooo much that i think it's a strictly better option than fact or fiction. Being able to spend it in the first 3 turns is the reason why you can consider it in your deck.
So I'm pretty pleased with my 3-1 and the further testing against tron and UW control. Tron is a bit more favorable now cause karn Creator is a good Queller target. UW control is almost a bye because they moved away from terminus and we can run Teferi TR mainboard. That was really embarassing to see narset, jace and their teferi getting outvalued by my vial-teferi plan.
As for lands, I got convinced UW needs utility and advantage, so 2 Moorlands are stock, now way around it, we need to recycle our stuff at instant speed, ad 2x mutavault seem just fine to spend the extra mana and add extra pressure. I also like the Farmland instead of the second Fountain because I'm greedy, I want to draw at instant speed with vial up and I like the mini combo with deprive.
I believe 2x Forces will give a very nice boost to UW spirits, they'll help playing the tempo game. Not sold on the Rchmage's Charm, I need cheap spells to curve out and tempo out my opponent.
I have got positive feelings about UW Spirits, Teferi and the relatively good position of remand in the meta with control and tron tier 1 make it possible to shape the type of tribal deck I like, Spirits and tempo spells, no shenanigans, no fugazi, no compromises with copters, thalias and deputies ( very relevant downfall of whirl decks being shut down by the static ability of Karn make them less impactful). Force is really pushing us into a beatdown early sequence, curious to see how the successful lists will look like.
By the way, my dream of a one drop entering the battlefield scrying 1 or 2 has almost came true. Too bad they decided to make it a faerie instad of a spirit. That would have been all we needd to curve out smoothly and go off consistently.