Turntimber Symbiosis has been very good in what few games I’ve tested it. It will take me a little bit to get the right build...I’m playing a full set and it’s upper interesting. I can see how Amuket Titan is gonna love them (as bouncing them makes them even better). May try my old Curio list (that was less Walker—centric) and awesome how that plays.
So... I’ve been playing online; and Kiora and Courser are both allowing me to “grab” the modal DCF lands. If this isn’t a bug; it is busted good for us.
This is kind of strange. So what happen exactly when you see it with courser? I know that the new bencher deck seems to be able to exist because of the fact these cards aren't land. I will check the ruling...
Honestly these cards are completely broken! It will allow us to get down to like 15 or 16 lands without a problem and we will still be able to go wide late game.
This is kind of strange. So what happen exactly when you see it with courser? I know that the new bencher deck seems to be able to exist because of the fact these cards aren't land. I will check the ruling...
Honestly these cards are completely broken! It will allow us to get down to like 15 or 16 lands without a problem and we will still be able to go wide late game.
I agree. I was extremely high on Turntimber and bought them quickly (as I think we will utilize it in many devotion decks).
As far as the potential bug is concerned... I was under the impression they were never really a land anywhere until you played them as such (so I assumed it was a bug)...it’s just so strange that both cards (and Winding Way) allow it...basically, when the card is revealed (either via Kiora or on top of library with Courser) you can right click it and choose the land side (to play off the top with Courser or to “select” to put in your hand with Kiora). You do have to right click them and choose the land side.
if it is legal; it is busted...I built a deck with a bunch of ramp, card draw, a few Emrakul copies (for Turntimber Symbiosis) and these lands (I’ve tried all but black in Many configurations) and you almost never have to mulligan and you always have something to play.
I still want to be sure it’s not a bug before I play any leagues. If it’s not a bug; we are super lucky and have a very powerful way to take advantage of the cards...but I don’t want to get too excited because I feel like chances are it is a bug.
bug or not; I’m still playing Turntimber (and likely splashing at least one other color). The life loss is not nothing though...so having Courser or Command to get back life is a big help.
Yeah... the problem with emrakul is that it's not going to have an impact the turn it comes into play letting the opponent the chance to react... I was looking forward to play a UG shell and i'm kind of unsure about it.
Here are my thought :
1. Leyline of Abundance shell seems to highly benefit of that kind of strategy since you don't rely too much on a basic forest like in a sprawl shell. The downside is that we must play cards like gilded goose in the current meta...
2. I'm not certain that relying on symbiosis to win with cards like emrakul are a good thing. Emrakul don't win on the spot and tooth/nail build just seems better actualy in that optic. Symbiosis don't add anything good to that list. The only upside I see to play Emrakul is to counter the rampant mill deck!
3. I think that simply fetch an eternal witness sounds like a great plan later in the game making Command a good card. So... a control shell seems to be interesting.
4. Playing with LoA in a control shell seems to be crying for the addition of Viven and/or Karn to get card advantage. I'm mostly in the favor of Vivien since she can do some shenanigans with Devoted Druid and help a lot with the devotion part of the plan.
Honestly it make like 5 days i'm thinking about the right way to include it and i'm still not certain on what to do.
As far as I've read rules-wise and release notes-wise, playing back-sided land MDFCs as lands is legal, but they are treated as their front side for all other purposes (i.e. Kiora can't put them into your hand, and Wrenn and Six can't recur them, but both Courser of Kruphix and Crucible of Worlds can let you play them as lands).
So I’ve been playing a deck that has been really fun to play. I can’t say how crazy competitive it is; as I have only played a dozen matches with it. While I’m 10-2; I have no doubt it will even out and I will lose more as (a) my opponents get a feel for what I am doing and (b)i face more decks.
I just wanted to play a little more interactive deck that still kinda stuck to the devotion game plan (could take advantage of it).
I just wanted a little reach to the deck And wanted to play around with Terror of the Peaks. Thus far I have found:
- Walking Ballista and Terror of the Peaks are nuts together. There were a lot of games where I had a terror in play.
- I like Fiend Artisan. I know it is more of a “pet card” of mine (and has no immediate impact); but it does have 2 pips and gets huge late game (even if you don’t tutor with it).
- Turntimber Symbiosis can hit Walking Ballista (as it puts 3 counter on it).
I’ll post more as I play more; but I’d love to hear more from others as well. Between Tooth and Nail variants (which I do think benefit from Symbiosis), toolboxes, and Walker decks...I think we have some great options right now.
I have also been playing an Emrakul + Symbiosis list (as discussed above with RP_Angriff). I think we have that option with Turntimber and even cheating it in on turn 4 has won a lot of games. Symbiosis is a definite card for us. It has been quite strong. I’ve hard-cast Emrakul more than I thought I would as well (Modern definitely feels slower now).
it is relatively Straightforward, however (not nearly as interactive)...but if anyone is interested in it I would be happy to post it.
With the state of the game becoming what it is, and busted cards getting introduced to modern with every set, forcing pseudo-rotations, I'm beginning more and more to enjoy theorycrafting more than actually playing. Doesn't cost me anything to theorycraft, and I still get enjoyment out of building something and playing a few solitaire games to see how it plays out.
With the state of the game becoming what it is, and busted cards getting introduced to modern with every set, forcing pseudo-rotations, I'm beginning more and more to enjoy theorycrafting more than actually playing. Doesn't cost me anything to theorycraft, and I still get enjoyment out of building something and playing a few solitaire games to see how it plays out.
Haha. So true. I miss the days where Modern had a shake up once every two years (and that "shake up" was a few cards. Now, every set creates three new decks, invalidates others, etc. Modern is a great mirror as to just how much power creep has been pushed in the last two years...we are rotating with each Standard set!
I love theorycrafting as well It is a blast. I just miss so much of the smaller interactions (like Turntimber Symbiosis working with Walking Ballista, etc.) if I don't test. But you are right that the VAST majority of what we would need to know can be done with theorycrafting (and without proxies it is VERY expensive to test on both MTGO and in paper (and I do both becuase of a local dedicated play group).
I have been loving playing Devotion lately! I hope when everything shakes out we are in a unique position. Ruric Thar is so strong...and casting a Walking Ballista with a Terror on board is nearly always lethal
Kinnan seems like he could go in some dork heavy list.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Always wear protection kids, sleeve up your deck.
LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Kinnan seems like he could go in some dork heavy list.
There were some incredible lists with him and Leyline that performed well. I also tried silly stuff like Llanowar Tribe + kinnan/Leyline + Umrbal mantle (tutored with Karn TGC) as an infinite combo within the deck. Likely not necessary. Just straightforward ramp into Karn was generally enough.
I love Leyline; and he made the deck far more consistent. It is incredibly explosive. The only issue I ran into when playing it was that it was a little more prone to the “wrong half” problem. There were a lot of games where you would go off on turn 3; but also a lot of games where you would top deck two dorks when you had a million mana. The nice thing is that BOTH kinnan and Leyline are also mana sinks (I won some games just giving an army of dorks 3-4 +1/+1 counters)...but I do remember feeling like it was a little more “glass cannon” than my other builds.
having said this; I think I was also extremely biased to begin with. I have no doubt there is probably a better build than the one I made that would reduce some of those issues.
The nice things about those lists is that it is very Devotion-specific (now that everyone and their brother plays Arbor Elf+Utopia Sprawl
Well I found myself back to playing a bit of G/r Walker Devotion, and I ended up there in a roundabout way. I had been brewing some Legendary Amber Mox decks, and I added the Legendary Sorceries to some of the more midrange brews. That led me to adding some Walkers to my decks, and then I realized that Jaya's Immolating Inferno would fit perfectly in big mana deck running red, and I ended up with this.
LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
I of course still also have my Walker deck (will always have it in some form); but I really wanted to focus on the combination of "free" spells to see if we could speed things up. The few "questions" I am still working through:
I have been trying to decide if it is necessary here. It can lead to silly turns and is another "free" spell...but I'm not certain you need all three (BTE, Chancellor, AND Leyline). It can lead to turns where you quickly pour out your hand; but don't have anything to do with the mana you've made. I want to make sure the deck is a Turn 3.5 deck on average while having the most card draw as is possible at the same time to mitigate the "wrong half" problem that is inherent in ramp.
2. Color Splash
I'm a huge fan of Elesh Norn right now...but it is the only non-green card in the deck. There are also great red options. So many ways to build this deck. Need to decide if the splash is needed at all.
I will be playing a LOT more the next few weeks. I will make sure to post on here to let you know of any changes, if I add BTE back into the deck (it was in there in the first few drafts and very well may end up back in), and how it continues to play.
____________________
While I always end up going back to my normal Walker deck...I did want to see how we could go about differentiating ourselves from the numerous Arbor Elf + Utopia Sprawl decks that now exist. The deck is EXTREMELY similar to the above deck (it just uses Arbor Elf, Utopia Sprawl, and Burning-Tree Emissary as the ramp package instead of Leyline, Noble Heirarch, two of the birds, and the Elvish Mystic/Dryad Arbor)....both currently play Chancellor (seeing if that is worth it to help us speed up to 4-CMC more reliably).
I do think that most of our decks should include at least 2 of the "free speed" cards (Leyline, BTE, and Chancellor) to give us the speed to compete.
If you are interested in my other deck, let me know and I'm happy to post it here. I just didn't want to post too much.
- may actually double loyalty counters on triggers!
this absolutely makes the Devotion Walker Lists work better. If we can Chord or Pact for a Doubling Season on a stick (or hit it with Turntimber) the deck becomes far stronger.
I still want the GG etb "draw a card" creature...but I hadn't thought about a psuedo-doubling season on a stick Seems like a great top end for any walker-deck.
Will be trying it out in paper asap and let you know how it goes (will just make some proxies).
3 Pips, 4/4 Trample for 3-CMC with a ton of value (and value we can use)...thoughts? are 3-drop value creatures where we want to be?
Obviously stompy loves it...but what about Devotion?
I'm still waiting (and have been asking Maro and MTG) for years for GG ETB "Draw a Card" creature (an elvish visionary with 2-pips)...I want this card more than any green mythic they could print
Search For Glory interests me. It can tutor for any legendary card....so it can grab our Nykthos, any walker, etc. If we play snow forests it can grab that (not sure why we would want that, but it can )....
and a drop2 with 2 devotion is the best.
Enchantment so difficult to remove...
cheap, devoted, dangerous, and at worst a scry every turn is still something
i would like a copy of eidolon of blossom with so many enchanments
Honestly these cards are completely broken! It will allow us to get down to like 15 or 16 lands without a problem and we will still be able to go wide late game.
I agree. I was extremely high on Turntimber and bought them quickly (as I think we will utilize it in many devotion decks).
As far as the potential bug is concerned... I was under the impression they were never really a land anywhere until you played them as such (so I assumed it was a bug)...it’s just so strange that both cards (and Winding Way) allow it...basically, when the card is revealed (either via Kiora or on top of library with Courser) you can right click it and choose the land side (to play off the top with Courser or to “select” to put in your hand with Kiora). You do have to right click them and choose the land side.
if it is legal; it is busted...I built a deck with a bunch of ramp, card draw, a few Emrakul copies (for Turntimber Symbiosis) and these lands (I’ve tried all but black in Many configurations) and you almost never have to mulligan and you always have something to play.
I still want to be sure it’s not a bug before I play any leagues. If it’s not a bug; we are super lucky and have a very powerful way to take advantage of the cards...but I don’t want to get too excited because I feel like chances are it is a bug.
bug or not; I’m still playing Turntimber (and likely splashing at least one other color). The life loss is not nothing though...so having Courser or Command to get back life is a big help.
Here are my thought :
1. Leyline of Abundance shell seems to highly benefit of that kind of strategy since you don't rely too much on a basic forest like in a sprawl shell. The downside is that we must play cards like gilded goose in the current meta...
2. I'm not certain that relying on symbiosis to win with cards like emrakul are a good thing. Emrakul don't win on the spot and tooth/nail build just seems better actualy in that optic. Symbiosis don't add anything good to that list. The only upside I see to play Emrakul is to counter the rampant mill deck!
3. I think that simply fetch an eternal witness sounds like a great plan later in the game making Command a good card. So... a control shell seems to be interesting.
4. Playing with LoA in a control shell seems to be crying for the addition of Viven and/or Karn to get card advantage. I'm mostly in the favor of Vivien since she can do some shenanigans with Devoted Druid and help a lot with the devotion part of the plan.
Honestly it make like 5 days i'm thinking about the right way to include it and i'm still not certain on what to do.
What is your toughts?
I just wanted to play a little more interactive deck that still kinda stuck to the devotion game plan (could take advantage of it).
The list is:
4x Arbor Elf
3x Birds of Paradise
3x Wall of Blossoms
2x Fiend Artisan
1x Eternal Witness
1x Klothys, God of Destiny
2x Terror of the Peaks
2x Walking Ballista
1x Acidic Slime
1x Elder Gargoroth
1x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Oath of Nissa
Planeswalker (7)
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
3x Kiora, Master of the Depths
Instant/Sorceey (6)
4x Turntimber Symbiosis
1x Sharterskull Smashing
1x Primal Command
Land (18)
3x Misty Rainforest
3x Wooded Foothills
1x Breeding Pool
1x Stomping Grounds
6x Forest
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
I just wanted a little reach to the deck And wanted to play around with Terror of the Peaks. Thus far I have found:
- Walking Ballista and Terror of the Peaks are nuts together. There were a lot of games where I had a terror in play.
- I like Fiend Artisan. I know it is more of a “pet card” of mine (and has no immediate impact); but it does have 2 pips and gets huge late game (even if you don’t tutor with it).
- Turntimber Symbiosis can hit Walking Ballista (as it puts 3 counter on it).
I’ll post more as I play more; but I’d love to hear more from others as well. Between Tooth and Nail variants (which I do think benefit from Symbiosis), toolboxes, and Walker decks...I think we have some great options right now.
it is relatively Straightforward, however (not nearly as interactive)...but if anyone is interested in it I would be happy to post it.
Haha. So true. I miss the days where Modern had a shake up once every two years (and that "shake up" was a few cards. Now, every set creates three new decks, invalidates others, etc. Modern is a great mirror as to just how much power creep has been pushed in the last two years...we are rotating with each Standard set!
I love theorycrafting as well
I have been loving playing Devotion lately! I hope when everything shakes out we are in a unique position. Ruric Thar is so strong...and casting a Walking Ballista with a Terror on board is nearly always lethal
Kinnan seems like he could go in some dork heavy list.
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
There were some incredible lists with him and Leyline that performed well. I also tried silly stuff like Llanowar Tribe + kinnan/Leyline + Umrbal mantle (tutored with Karn TGC) as an infinite combo within the deck. Likely not necessary. Just straightforward ramp into Karn was generally enough.
I love Leyline; and he made the deck far more consistent. It is incredibly explosive. The only issue I ran into when playing it was that it was a little more prone to the “wrong half” problem. There were a lot of games where you would go off on turn 3; but also a lot of games where you would top deck two dorks when you had a million mana. The nice thing is that BOTH kinnan and Leyline are also mana sinks (I won some games just giving an army of dorks 3-4 +1/+1 counters)...but I do remember feeling like it was a little more “glass cannon” than my other builds.
having said this; I think I was also extremely biased to begin with. I have no doubt there is probably a better build than the one I made that would reduce some of those issues.
The nice things about those lists is that it is very Devotion-specific (now that everyone and their brother plays Arbor Elf+Utopia Sprawl
Well I found myself back to playing a bit of G/r Walker Devotion, and I ended up there in a roundabout way. I had been brewing some Legendary Amber Mox decks, and I added the Legendary Sorceries to some of the more midrange brews. That led me to adding some Walkers to my decks, and then I realized that Jaya's Immolating Inferno would fit perfectly in big mana deck running red, and I ended up with this.
// 60 Maindeck
// 18 Creature
4 Arbor Elf
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Walking Ballista
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Hornet Queen
2 Radha, Heart of Keld
2 Radha, Heir to Keld
1 Klothys, God of Destiny
// 8 Enchantment
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Oath of Nissa
// 21 Land
5 Forest
3 Stomping Ground
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Windswept Heath
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Garruk Relentless
3 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
// 2 Sorcery
2 Jaya's Immolating Inferno
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Klothys, God of Destiny
3 Blood Moon
2 Abrade
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Veil of Summer
Jaya's Inferno is a super strong card, it can easily be a 3 for 1, killing creatures and walkers, and it can just Fireball to face for a ton.
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
I am wanting to build a green devotion deck and am wondering what your current list is?
Hey JimFrost!
I apologize I delayed in responding. Our work was nuts and I was out of town for a bit.
The list I've been playing recently is quite different from what I've played in the past. The list is:
1x Dryad Arbor
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Birds of Paradise
1x Elvish Mystic
3x Wall of Blossoms
3x Wistful Selkie
4x Chancellor of the Tangle
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1x Genesis Hydra
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
4x Karn, the Great Creator
Other (12)
4x Oath of Nissa
4x Turntimber Symbiosis
4x Leyline of Abundance
Land (17)
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Horizon Canopy
6x Green Fetch Land
2x Temple Garden
4x Forest
1x Cloudstone Curio
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Damping Sphere
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Liquimetal Coating
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Pithing Needle
1x Walking Ballista
1x Meteor Golem
2x Genesis Hydra
2x Primal Command
I of course still also have my Walker deck (will always have it in some form); but I really wanted to focus on the combination of "free" spells to see if we could speed things up. The few "questions" I am still working through:
1. Burning-Tree Emissary
I have been trying to decide if it is necessary here. It can lead to silly turns and is another "free" spell...but I'm not certain you need all three (BTE, Chancellor, AND Leyline). It can lead to turns where you quickly pour out your hand; but don't have anything to do with the mana you've made. I want to make sure the deck is a Turn 3.5 deck on average while having the most card draw as is possible at the same time to mitigate the "wrong half" problem that is inherent in ramp.
2. Color Splash
I'm a huge fan of Elesh Norn right now...but it is the only non-green card in the deck. There are also great red options. So many ways to build this deck. Need to decide if the splash is needed at all.
I will be playing a LOT more the next few weeks. I will make sure to post on here to let you know of any changes, if I add BTE back into the deck (it was in there in the first few drafts and very well may end up back in), and how it continues to play.
____________________
While I always end up going back to my normal Walker deck...I did want to see how we could go about differentiating ourselves from the numerous Arbor Elf + Utopia Sprawl decks that now exist. The deck is EXTREMELY similar to the above deck (it just uses Arbor Elf, Utopia Sprawl, and Burning-Tree Emissary as the ramp package instead of Leyline, Noble Heirarch, two of the birds, and the Elvish Mystic/Dryad Arbor)....both currently play Chancellor (seeing if that is worth it to help us speed up to 4-CMC more reliably).
I do think that most of our decks should include at least 2 of the "free speed" cards (Leyline, BTE, and Chancellor) to give us the speed to compete.
If you are interested in my other deck, let me know and I'm happy to post it here. I just didn't want to post too much.
- it’s a doubling season on a stick!
- may actually double loyalty counters on triggers!
this absolutely makes the Devotion Walker Lists work better. If we can Chord or Pact for a Doubling Season on a stick (or hit it with Turntimber) the deck becomes far stronger.
I still want the GG etb "draw a card" creature...but I hadn't thought about a psuedo-doubling season on a stick
Will be trying it out in paper asap and let you know how it goes (will just make some proxies).
3 Pips, 4/4 Trample for 3-CMC with a ton of value (and value we can use)...thoughts? are 3-drop value creatures where we want to be?
Obviously stompy loves it...but what about Devotion?
I'm still waiting (and have been asking Maro and MTG) for years for GG ETB "Draw a Card" creature (an elvish visionary with 2-pips)...I want this card more than any green mythic they could print
may have to look into that a bit.
it's a bomb.
with Eladamri's Call or other cards we can search the right creature we need to put in play
and a drop2 with 2 devotion is the best.
Enchantment so difficult to remove...
cheap, devoted, dangerous, and at worst a scry every turn is still something
i would like a copy of eidolon of blossom with so many enchanments