If someone destroys the Valakut with the triggers on the stack will the triggers resolve? Or if you search for 1 Valakut and 6 mountains and some destroys a mountain will the triggers resolve?
The triggers are the damage, and so should still go off (I believe) they also will not have priority to destroy your land, until the triggers are on the stack.
If you search up 6 mountains and 1 valakut, 6 triggers will be put onto the stack. Whether or not valakut lives to see these triggers resolve is irrelevant.
If someone destroys a mountain, it may cancel the triggers.
Valakut has what is called an "intervening if clause" ("Whenever a Mountain enters the battlefield under your control, if you control at least five other Mountains, ...") which defines a condition necessary for the effect to trigger, as well as necessary for the effect to resolve.
The destroyed mountain will produce a trigger that when resolved, will see 5 other mountains (the 5 that were not destroyed) but the other 5 mountains will produces triggers that do not see 5 other mountains (only 4 since one is destroyed) and only 3 damage will be dealt (assuming only a single valakut).
If your opponent uses a ghost quarter or a field of ruin, if you are able to find another mountain to replace the destroyed one, you'll be able to "save" your triggers, as well as produce another one for the new mountain entering. (That is to say, when you cast a scapeshift, fetch up nonbasics first to leave more basics in the deck for potential disruption)
I'm also intending to put this deck together, probably in straight RUG as well.
I don't have an exact list yet, but I expect to be playing a more control-heavy list.
I'm not sure if its been brought up before, but temporal mastery with jace seems like it could find a real home here. Getting an extra turn that the opponent isn't expecting could easily win the game, but worse case, a random explore is still a pretty reasonable floor in a deck looking to make land drops.
If you search up 6 mountains and 1 valakut, 6 triggers will be put onto the stack. Whether or not valakut lives to see these triggers resolve is irrelevant.
If someone destroys a mountain, it may cancel the triggers.
Valakut has what is called an "intervening if clause" ("Whenever a Mountain enters the battlefield under your control, if you control at least five other Mountains, ...") which defines a condition necessary for the effect to trigger, as well as necessary for the effect to resolve.
The destroyed mountain will produce a trigger that when resolved, will see 5 other mountains (the 5 that were not destroyed) but the other 5 mountains will produces triggers that do not see 5 other mountains (only 4 since one is destroyed) and only 3 damage will be dealt (assuming only a single valakut).
If your opponent uses a ghost quarter or a field of ruin, if you are able to find another mountain to replace the destroyed one, you'll be able to "save" your triggers, as well as produce another one for the new mountain entering. (That is to say, when you cast a scapeshift, fetch up nonbasics first to leave more basics in the deck for potential disruption)
I'm also intending to put this deck together, probably in straight RUG as well.
I don't have an exact list yet, but I expect to be playing a more control-heavy list.
I'm not sure if its been brought up before, but temporal mastery with jace seems like it could find a real home here. Getting an extra turn that the opponent isn't expecting could easily win the game, but worse case, a random explore is still a pretty reasonable floor in a deck looking to make land drops.
So if you shapeshift for 6 mountains and a Valakut and they ghost quarter a mountain, you can search for another basic mountain, then when Valakuts intervening clause resolves it would still see all 6 and do 18 damage?
10/1/2009 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle’s triggered ability has an “intervening ‘if’ clause.” That means (1) the ability won’t trigger at all unless, at the time a Mountain enters the battlefield under your control, you control five or more Mountains other than that new one, and (2) the ability will do nothing if you control fewer than five Mountains other than that new one by the time it resolves.
10/1/2009 If a Mountain you control leaves the battlefield between the time Valakut’s second ability triggers and the time it resolves, be aware if that was the Mountain that caused Valakut’s ability to trigger or not. If it was, Valakut’s count isn’t affected; if it wasn’t, Valakut’s count goes down by one.
Well lets think about it.
You cast scapeshift, sacrifice 7 lands, tutor up 6 mountains + valakut.
6 triggers for 3 damage each are placed on the stack.
Opponent receives priority and activates ghost quarter on one of your mountains.
You allow it resolve, fetching another mountain. This triggers valakut.
Stack looks like this:
[Valakut trigger produced by mountain obtained from ghost quarter]
[Valakut trigger X6 produced by mountains obtained from scapeshift]
The top trigger resolves, as there are 5 or more other mountains (in this case, exactly 5), dealing 3 damage to chosen target.
Next, the remaining 6 triggers will resolve sequentially, as they each see 5 other mountains (despite these 5 mountains not being the same as the 5 mountains when these triggers were placed on the stack). Each will resolve dealing 3 damage.
Total damage: 21.
The future is RUG Scapeshift without bring to light,ruturn the vintage RUG Scapeshift with Growth Spiral,I think is the card star in the new Scapeshift deck, with Snapcaster mage is great!!!
In the next tournament I will play this deck.
The future is RUG Scapeshift without bring to light,ruturn the vintage RUG Scapeshift with Growth Spiral,I think is the card star in the new Scapeshift deck, with Snapcaster mage is great!!!
In the next tournament I will play this deck.
I still prefer the tool box we get out of Bring to Light. It adds some variety and resilience in play that you don't get with straight RUG Shapeshift. I typically use Snapcaster as my flex spot for sideboards because it feels very situational to me and more like a recycle for when we cant land shapeshift due to a counter spell.
The Growth Spiral isn't a guaranteed extra land every time you play it, but the draw is nice and the instant speed is nice when paired with the Snapcaster recycling, but you will still get diminishing return as the game goes on because once we reach 4 mana I think I would personally rather cast a Cryptic Command using that 4 mana in most instances to slow my opponent down and gain board advantage.
In the next tournament I will go with RUG Scapeshift decklist with 4 Growth Spiral and cryptic command, I don't know the day of the tournament:-(
What does the rest of your list look like? Are you gonna be running more control style with remands and such or more land grab with explore and farseek?
In the next tournament I will go with RUG Scapeshift decklist with 4 Growth Spiral and cryptic command, I don't know the day of the tournament:-(
What does the rest of your list look like? Are you gonna be running more control style with remands and such or more land grab with explore and farseek?
Hey guys, I'm currently testing a classic RUG splintertwin-esque list to some success. Remand snap remand while holding occasional Growth Spirals in hand is a very effective strategy. Also, having Scapshift as being a 1 card combo is a nice feature when you're filtering your deck so much. This list has a fair % of comboing on T4 (with 3 accelerators) although having less of the toolbox that BTL lists have. On the other hand, RUG can just win by Midrange beatdowns just like old Splinter Twin! I'll be testing a 1-of Nissa since her 3 mods are amazing in this deck :
+1 for protection or beatdown plan (dying land isn't the worst since we play so many)
-3 buy back lands, Snappy or valakut when in trouble
-6 on T4 (in nut draws) and draw 2-3 cards a turn or just scapshift for value if you have trouble with things like runed halo or leyline of sanctity seems decent
I'm still unsure if this spot should be for Keranos but both suit the same purpose : greatly help Plan B to strangle opponents
I's probably like to fit the last Snapcaster Mage but the list feels good for now.
Only 3 Sakura tibe elders since a 1/1 for sorcery speed is rough to cast wheb this deck is so focused on instant speed pressure ou high value cards.
Maybe the future of the deck requires us to cur Steve completely since he's so awkward but on the other hand is very good for T4-5 kills, what do you think?
Here's my list for reference :
Land (25)
1x Breeding Pool
1x Cinder Glade
1x Desolate Lighthouse
2x Forest
3x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Mountain
4x Steam Vents
4x Stomping Ground
2x Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
2x Wooded Foothills
What do you think about the new planeswalker Teferi Time Raveler for Bring to light Scapeshift?,with this planeswalker on the table,the opponent can't counter the Scapeshift,with +1 Bring to light, Scapeshift,farseek instants and with +3,artifacts, white leylines and creatures to the hand, I think two copies in the main are necessary
One of the many problems with BTL is that it's secondary win condition is really not good (Madcap Experiments/ Platinum Emperion). RG has other major win conditions outside scapeshift for leathal. Using Primeval Titan in combination with Valakut, craeting a gamestate where every card is a lightning bolt or multiple bolts per card, or just beat down with Tireless Tracker, BBE (if you still run her), and other creatures like Baloth.
RG also has the luxury of resolving a Titan against certain matchups and the opponent not being able to deal with that. Some decks won't hurt themselves to 18, and Scapeshift with 8 lands just is way too slow and not reliable. Scapeshift all of a sudden becomes the first cut you take out when sideboarding. Artifact decks like Affinity and Hardened Scales is a good example. Burn would probably be good to take out 1 or 2, as a resolved titan just wins the game unless you are dangerously low. BGx decks you take out a non zero amount of Scapeshifts due to the fact that you will be low on resources and it becomes very hard to even get up to 7 lands before they kill you.
As for BTL, they have coutnerspells that can stop a lot of things. On top of actual BTL being a utility card, we might want to cut a single scapeshift, but not necessarily cut a BTL. Depends on the matchup most of the time, but I fond myself never really wanting to cut BTL, but I could be wrong.
I think the future of the U version is not Bring to Light. I think like the above poster said, the future of the deck is going back to RUG. Having W right now is super tempting due to all the graveyard stuff, but the inconsistency with the mana base plus the overall clunkiness of the BTL versions just isn't cutting it. I think RUG is the new hope.
3 major cards have been printed and made legal for modern since RUG's hay day: Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Search for Azcanta, and Growth Spiral. We have the tools, we just need to find a good build and show that RUG can be a contender again
With the new spoiled card, I think this deck has a decent shot to become tier again. It give us defensibility without costing a card.
What you guys think?
With the new spoiled card, I think this deck has a decent shot to become tier again. It give us defensibility without costing a card.
What you guys think?
I'm still on the fence about it. Mainly because I wouldn't know what to cut. How often can we get it online and how fast? Does this count as our removal and we ditch bolt? Even though bolt has been severely weakened in this meta, I don't leave the house without them.
Having our own Baleful Strix sounds sweet and can definitely be tested in a RUG shell.
So I've been thinking about a return to the true scape (ie rug based), and i generally liked the btl variants of the deck. they were a bit clunky but also offered much more sideboard utility. New Teferi seems like a house in the board (eot btl/scape has a lot of appeal), and MH looks to add some fun stuff. I think 2 archmage's charms seem like a solid addition, and the green force seems solid, as well as the green storm spell. Even force of negation seems like it could play alongside teferi (although that might be asking too much) since you can play scape on their turn and protect it. One thing I was thinking more and more though, was playing 3 Karn, the great creator in the main. It gives you a pretty good plan b in game one, as well as giving you some solid game one toolbox options (tormod's crypt, explosives, grafdigger's cage, ensnaring bridge, and of course, mycosynth lattice and liquimetal coating to lock out the opponent). Thoughts on this? I haven't been able to test anything out yet (don't really want to buy mycosynth at it's current cost unless it's worth it), so this is all just theorycrafting at the moment. Thoughts?
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Modern: UWR Breach, UWB Esper control
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
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Correct?
Spirits
If someone destroys a mountain, it may cancel the triggers.
Valakut has what is called an "intervening if clause" ("Whenever a Mountain enters the battlefield under your control, if you control at least five other Mountains, ...") which defines a condition necessary for the effect to trigger, as well as necessary for the effect to resolve.
The destroyed mountain will produce a trigger that when resolved, will see 5 other mountains (the 5 that were not destroyed) but the other 5 mountains will produces triggers that do not see 5 other mountains (only 4 since one is destroyed) and only 3 damage will be dealt (assuming only a single valakut).
If your opponent uses a ghost quarter or a field of ruin, if you are able to find another mountain to replace the destroyed one, you'll be able to "save" your triggers, as well as produce another one for the new mountain entering. (That is to say, when you cast a scapeshift, fetch up nonbasics first to leave more basics in the deck for potential disruption)
I'm also intending to put this deck together, probably in straight RUG as well.
I don't have an exact list yet, but I expect to be playing a more control-heavy list.
I'm not sure if its been brought up before, but temporal mastery with jace seems like it could find a real home here. Getting an extra turn that the opponent isn't expecting could easily win the game, but worse case, a random explore is still a pretty reasonable floor in a deck looking to make land drops.
Spirits
So if you shapeshift for 6 mountains and a Valakut and they ghost quarter a mountain, you can search for another basic mountain, then when Valakuts intervening clause resolves it would still see all 6 and do 18 damage?
10/1/2009 If a Mountain you control leaves the battlefield between the time Valakut’s second ability triggers and the time it resolves, be aware if that was the Mountain that caused Valakut’s ability to trigger or not. If it was, Valakut’s count isn’t affected; if it wasn’t, Valakut’s count goes down by one.
You cast scapeshift, sacrifice 7 lands, tutor up 6 mountains + valakut.
6 triggers for 3 damage each are placed on the stack.
Opponent receives priority and activates ghost quarter on one of your mountains.
You allow it resolve, fetching another mountain. This triggers valakut.
Stack looks like this:
[Valakut trigger produced by mountain obtained from ghost quarter]
[Valakut trigger X6 produced by mountains obtained from scapeshift]
The top trigger resolves, as there are 5 or more other mountains (in this case, exactly 5), dealing 3 damage to chosen target.
Next, the remaining 6 triggers will resolve sequentially, as they each see 5 other mountains (despite these 5 mountains not being the same as the 5 mountains when these triggers were placed on the stack). Each will resolve dealing 3 damage.
Total damage: 21.
While I'm not super interested in the straight RG version because it isn't very interactive I wanted some opinion on why they might suggest taking out scapeshift in so many matchups and how that might pertain to our Bring to Light variant.
In the next tournament I will play this deck.
I still prefer the tool box we get out of Bring to Light. It adds some variety and resilience in play that you don't get with straight RUG Shapeshift. I typically use Snapcaster as my flex spot for sideboards because it feels very situational to me and more like a recycle for when we cant land shapeshift due to a counter spell.
The Growth Spiral isn't a guaranteed extra land every time you play it, but the draw is nice and the instant speed is nice when paired with the Snapcaster recycling, but you will still get diminishing return as the game goes on because once we reach 4 mana I think I would personally rather cast a Cryptic Command using that 4 mana in most instances to slow my opponent down and gain board advantage.
In the next tournament I will go with RUG Scapeshift decklist with 4 Growth Spiral and cryptic command, I don't know the day of the tournament:-(
What does the rest of your list look like? Are you gonna be running more control style with remands and such or more land grab with explore and farseek?
Creatures
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Sakura tribe Elder
Intants
2 Opt
4 Cryptic Command
4 Growth Spiral
4 lightning bolt
4 Remand
Sorceries:
4 Scapeshift
4 Search for tomorrow
Enchantment
2 Search for Azcanta
Lands (25)
1 Cinder glade
1 Flooded Grove
2 Breeding Pool
2 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Valakut,the Molten Pinnacle
3 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Stomping Ground
4 Steam Vents
+1 for protection or beatdown plan (dying land isn't the worst since we play so many)
-3 buy back lands, Snappy or valakut when in trouble
-6 on T4 (in nut draws) and draw 2-3 cards a turn or just scapshift for value if you have trouble with things like runed halo or leyline of sanctity seems decent
I'm still unsure if this spot should be for Keranos but both suit the same purpose : greatly help Plan B to strangle opponents
I's probably like to fit the last Snapcaster Mage but the list feels good for now.
Only 3 Sakura tibe elders since a 1/1 for sorcery speed is rough to cast wheb this deck is so focused on instant speed pressure ou high value cards.
Maybe the future of the deck requires us to cur Steve completely since he's so awkward but on the other hand is very good for T4-5 kills, what do you think?
Here's my list for reference :
Land (25)
1x Breeding Pool
1x Cinder Glade
1x Desolate Lighthouse
2x Forest
3x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Mountain
4x Steam Vents
4x Stomping Ground
2x Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
2x Wooded Foothills
Instant (17)
3x Cryptic Command
1x Electrolyze
4x Growth Spiral
1x Izzet Charm
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Remand
Creature (7)
3x Sakura-Tribe Elder
3x Snapcaster Mage
1x Vendilion Clique
Planeswalker (3)
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Nissa, Vital Force
Sorcery (8)
4x Scapeshift
4x Search for Tomorrow
Sideboard (15)
2x Anger of the Gods
2x Destructive Revelry
3x Dispel
2x Izzet Staticaster
3x Obstinate Baloth
2x Relic of Progenitus
1x Vendilion Clique
BGW - Abzan
Legacy
BG - BG Lands
One of the many problems with BTL is that it's secondary win condition is really not good (Madcap Experiments/ Platinum Emperion). RG has other major win conditions outside scapeshift for leathal. Using Primeval Titan in combination with Valakut, craeting a gamestate where every card is a lightning bolt or multiple bolts per card, or just beat down with Tireless Tracker, BBE (if you still run her), and other creatures like Baloth.
RG also has the luxury of resolving a Titan against certain matchups and the opponent not being able to deal with that. Some decks won't hurt themselves to 18, and Scapeshift with 8 lands just is way too slow and not reliable. Scapeshift all of a sudden becomes the first cut you take out when sideboarding. Artifact decks like Affinity and Hardened Scales is a good example. Burn would probably be good to take out 1 or 2, as a resolved titan just wins the game unless you are dangerously low. BGx decks you take out a non zero amount of Scapeshifts due to the fact that you will be low on resources and it becomes very hard to even get up to 7 lands before they kill you.
As for BTL, they have coutnerspells that can stop a lot of things. On top of actual BTL being a utility card, we might want to cut a single scapeshift, but not necessarily cut a BTL. Depends on the matchup most of the time, but I fond myself never really wanting to cut BTL, but I could be wrong.
I think the future of the U version is not Bring to Light. I think like the above poster said, the future of the deck is going back to RUG. Having W right now is super tempting due to all the graveyard stuff, but the inconsistency with the mana base plus the overall clunkiness of the BTL versions just isn't cutting it. I think RUG is the new hope.
3 major cards have been printed and made legal for modern since RUG's hay day: Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Search for Azcanta, and Growth Spiral. We have the tools, we just need to find a good build and show that RUG can be a contender again
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
What you guys think?
http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/ice-fang-coatl/
I'm still on the fence about it. Mainly because I wouldn't know what to cut. How often can we get it online and how fast? Does this count as our removal and we ditch bolt? Even though bolt has been severely weakened in this meta, I don't leave the house without them.
Having our own Baleful Strix sounds sweet and can definitely be tested in a RUG shell.
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show