I feel like Avenger of Zendikar would be a better big dude in this deck, as nothing slows down a game as well as a ton of plant tokens. Heck, you wouldn't even need to scapeshift for valakuts, you could just pump them up with a shift.
I feel like Avenger of Zendikar would be a better big dude in this deck, as nothing slows down a game as well as a ton of plant tokens. Heck, you wouldn't even need to scapeshift for valakuts, you could just pump them up with a shift.
Problem is that Avenger leaves you with a bunch of chump blockers when it dies. Wurmcoil is a pain to fight through.
Rude Awakening has been a solid alternate win con for me. Jund rarely doesn't do 4 damage to itself, so the entwined cost can be lethal, and Peer through Depths can find it. It is more 'all in' than Wurmcoils or Avenger though.
Worldly Counsel - I thought I would try something a little different from Telling Time and Peer Through Depths. So far I have been pretty happy with it. Usually I am digging 3 (5 with Omen on the board) as with TT. I don't have to reveal it, and I am not restricted by card type as with PTD. It's not a bad choice if you are looking for instant speed dig.
Maindeck Vendilion Clique - EoT flash of Clique can put your control opponent's in a bind. You either force them to counter it, or you get to check/remove answers to Scapeshift (such as Slaughter Games). In other match ups you can use Clique to help dig for Omen/Scapeshift. Plus it keeps pressure on your opponent as a 3/1 flyer.
Lightning Bolt - I have said before that I am a sucker for 1 cmc instant speed removal. Lightning Bolt is no exception. It can help you slow down aggro decks. It can take out Electromancer, Deathrite Shaman, Soul's Attendant/Soul Warden. I've also sealed a few games with a Bolt and a Snapcaster.
Forgive me for the really dumb question, but every list I've looked at only plays 9-10 mountains (4x vents/grounds, 1-2x mountain), and I'm confused as to how that works. Do you just scoop if you draw your 4th or 5th mountain before you get to 7 lands & scapeshift?
Forgive me for the really dumb question, but every list I've looked at only plays 9-10 mountains (4x vents/grounds, 1-2x mountain), and I'm confused as to how that works. Do you just scoop if you draw your 4th or 5th mountain before you get to 7 lands & scapeshift?
I run 11 personally, ideally I'd like to run 12. If you're going to run so few mountains you should probably be running Prismatic Omen as well. Anyways, if you find that for whatever reason you have had to play your 4-5th mountain just don't sac all of them when you Scapeshift; leaving 1-2 mountains and grabbing 4-5 along with 2 Valakut is still a kill. There are going to be freak incidents, but these are statistically very low occurences and you should be building your deck to be as consistent as possible.
Forgive me for the really dumb question, but every list I've looked at only plays 9-10 mountains (4x vents/grounds, 1-2x mountain), and I'm confused as to how that works. Do you just scoop if you draw your 4th or 5th mountain before you get to 7 lands & scapeshift?
No not at all it just slows you down just a little, if you have 4 mountains in play but 8 lands total sac the 4 extra and 3 mountains search for 5 mountains double valakut you'll get 10 triggers
Could someone explain something about Prismatic Omen to me. With it in play, you need 6 lands for the Valakut kill. Why play Omen over a Rampant Growth varient, as for the same mana, you get the same speed increase with less risk of it being removed.
Could someone explain something about Prismatic Omen to me. With it in play, you need 6 lands for the Valakut kill. Why play Omen over a Rampant Growth varient, as for the same mana, you get the same speed increase with less risk of it being removed.
Prismatic Omen isn't played solely to speed up the kill but enable a kill with non-mountains. We would have a much easier time if we could run less mountains, enabling us to cast Cryptic Command more consistently etc. But Omen just becomes another piece convoluting the combo. I think lists with Primeval Titan should run Prismatic Omen, and if the meta becomes hostile toward Scapeshift and Slaughter-Games-centric then the Titan/Omen sb plan gains strength. Who knows, maybe one day UG lists with 4 Valakut and some number of Omen will be the best choice. Abrupt Decay weakens Prismatic Omen , which is run is the same deck as SG, so if Jund continues to dominate and gain more share of the meta due to reprints making the deck more accessible we will have to build our lists accordingly. Swerve and Spellskite may end up being auto includes in lists that run Omen.
forgive me if I don't make sense. I am at my wife's family's party drinking for my own entertainment and trying to post from my phone discretely.
*Slow Clap*
My buddy decided to get into Modern and just bought himself Jund. He's not too sure how to play it, so we're going to get together in the next week and just play 20+ games. I'm going to take 2 SB's to it. My normal one, and a transitional Primeval Titan, Prismatic Omen one. What I need to decide is how many of each do I need? My best guess is 3 Primeval, 4 Prismatic, and 2 extra Valakut (to get the full 4), but I'd like a second opinion.
I would try siding in 2 titan, 2 Omen, 1 spellskite, and 1 Valakut if you know you will be facing Slaughter Games. Vendilion Clique is also a good option. I'm just not sold on Shadow of Doubt and assuming we will be on the draw for g2 Jund will have the mana for Games before we have the mana for Mind Break Trap most of the time so that really isn't a feasable option imo.
I am going to test Spreading Seas as well and see if it is effective and relevant in other matchups besides Jund.
I cannot wait for my LGS to start modern FNM, so much testing will get done.
We're playing tonight (To celebrate the end of Christmas), so I'll post a report tomorrow.
@rxavage I tried Spreading Seas for a bit as anit-jund/tron tech. The issue is, Jund has Deathrite Shaman and Tron has all the cantrips, so at best you slow them a turn, and worst it does nothing. Turn 2 we need to be ramping, or holding up a counterspell.
Prismatic Omen isn't played solely to speed up the kill but enable a kill with non-mountains. We would have a much easier time if we could run less mountains, enabling us to cast Cryptic Command more consistently etc. But Omen just becomes another piece convoluting the combo. I think lists with Primeval Titan should run Prismatic Omen, and if the meta becomes hostile toward Scapeshift and Slaughter-Games-centric then the Titan/Omen sb plan gains strength. Who knows, maybe one day UG lists with 4 Valakut and some number of Omen will be the best choice. Abrupt Decay weakens Prismatic Omen , which is run is the same deck as SG, so if Jund continues to dominate and gain more share of the meta due to reprints making the deck more accessible we will have to build our lists accordingly. Swerve and Spellskite may end up being auto includes in lists that run Omen.
Omen is a great card if you're playing 4x maindeck Valakut. Why? Because hardcasting omen will allow you to burn your opponent off simply by hitting your land drops with a valakut in play. It also doubles as an alternative win condition when your scapeshifts get extracted by Slaughter Games. Having inevitability in a combo deck such as scapeshift is a huge advantage, especially when that type of inevitability is hard to hate out. The only drawback of playing omen is that you don't want multiples, and if you want to play cryptic command, it'll be rather difficult when you're accomodating for 4x valakuts maindeck.
If you have two valakuts in play, every fetch land you play with 6 lands in play turns into 12 damage. So long story short, omen is a good card, but it requires some building around. If I were playing an omen build, I would start by making the manabase work with 4x valakut, and I would also be sure to play at least 2 Muddle the Mixtures since they can protect the scapeshift combo, or tutor for Snapcasters / Prismatic Omens.
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@ Kid
That sb looks good and I agree with the recommendation of 2 Baloth.
You're right about SS, I didn't even think about that, I was caught up in the fact that it cantrips and was blinded.
@ wilier
Everything looks great, even both sideboards, except for the 4 explore. I feel that 2 is correct unless you're running Cultivate or run 27 land; those other 2 slots could be another Pyroclasm, or 2, or another Omen but definitely another 'clasm.
Kid Presentable, that kind of sb was what I was talking about, It can work. But I add +2 Obstinate Baloth instead of the single Surgical Extraction and 1 Spell Pierce. I would also change that 2 spell pierce for 2 Negate.
I don't own any Baloths, but they do seem nice. If my buddy owns any I'll put them in for the Extraction and a Pierce. I doubt I would do this if I didn't know I was playing Jund over and over.
As for Spell Pierce vs Negate, I'm considering switching one Pierce out for a Negate in my real SB, as it's so good in the mirror and against Tron. I love Pierce due to it's ability to cheaply shut down faster combo, and to counter a T2 Liliana of the Veil, but I can see the merits of both.
Problem is that Avenger leaves you with a bunch of chump blockers when it dies. Wurmcoil is a pain to fight through.
GWBJunk TokensBWG
Modern
GURScapeshiftRUG
BGRDredgevineRGB
URSTORM!RU
UWTezzeret ControlWU
Legacy
BWStonebladeWB
BUGBUG ControlGUB
Really love Scapeshift probably my favorite combo deck.(eggs being close second!)
this is the list I've been testing for about 2 weeks now
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1076867
seems pretty solid but I'm liking the addition of Izzet Charms seems like a good choice in this deck
4 Prismatic Omen
Sorcery: 8
4 Scapeshift
4 Explore
Instants: 15
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Remand
3 Cryptic Command
2 Izzet Charm
2 Worldly Counsel
Critters: 8
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Steam Vents
3 Stomping Ground
2 Breeding Pool
2 Island
2 Mountain
1 Forest
3 Volcanic Fallout
4 Dragon's Claw
4 Spell Snare
4 Ancient Grudge
A few notes on card choices:
Worldly Counsel - I thought I would try something a little different from Telling Time and Peer Through Depths. So far I have been pretty happy with it. Usually I am digging 3 (5 with Omen on the board) as with TT. I don't have to reveal it, and I am not restricted by card type as with PTD. It's not a bad choice if you are looking for instant speed dig.
Maindeck Vendilion Clique - EoT flash of Clique can put your control opponent's in a bind. You either force them to counter it, or you get to check/remove answers to Scapeshift (such as Slaughter Games). In other match ups you can use Clique to help dig for Omen/Scapeshift. Plus it keeps pressure on your opponent as a 3/1 flyer.
Lightning Bolt - I have said before that I am a sucker for 1 cmc instant speed removal. Lightning Bolt is no exception. It can help you slow down aggro decks. It can take out Electromancer, Deathrite Shaman, Soul's Attendant/Soul Warden. I've also sealed a few games with a Bolt and a Snapcaster.
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I run 11 personally, ideally I'd like to run 12. If you're going to run so few mountains you should probably be running Prismatic Omen as well. Anyways, if you find that for whatever reason you have had to play your 4-5th mountain just don't sac all of them when you Scapeshift; leaving 1-2 mountains and grabbing 4-5 along with 2 Valakut is still a kill. There are going to be freak incidents, but these are statistically very low occurences and you should be building your deck to be as consistent as possible.
No not at all it just slows you down just a little, if you have 4 mountains in play but 8 lands total sac the 4 extra and 3 mountains search for 5 mountains double valakut you'll get 10 triggers
GWBJunk TokensBWG
Modern
GURScapeshiftRUG
BGRDredgevineRGB
URSTORM!RU
UWTezzeret ControlWU
Legacy
BWStonebladeWB
BUGBUG ControlGUB
3 Forest
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
6 Mountain
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
4 Stomping Ground
4 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
26 lands
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
8 creatures
4 Farseek
4 Izzet Charm
4 Khalni Heart Expedition
2 Prismatic Omen
4 Remand
4 Scapeshift
4 Search for Tomorrow
26 other spells
4 Ancient Grudge
2 Negate
4 Obstinate Baloth
3 Pyroclasm
2 Vexing Shusher
15 sideboard cards
I've seen RGu lists like this a few times on MTGO before. It seems mostly like RG Valakut Ramp, but with some of the goodies Blue brings.
Prismatic Omen isn't played solely to speed up the kill but enable a kill with non-mountains. We would have a much easier time if we could run less mountains, enabling us to cast Cryptic Command more consistently etc. But Omen just becomes another piece convoluting the combo. I think lists with Primeval Titan should run Prismatic Omen, and if the meta becomes hostile toward Scapeshift and Slaughter-Games-centric then the Titan/Omen sb plan gains strength. Who knows, maybe one day UG lists with 4 Valakut and some number of Omen will be the best choice. Abrupt Decay weakens Prismatic Omen , which is run is the same deck as SG, so if Jund continues to dominate and gain more share of the meta due to reprints making the deck more accessible we will have to build our lists accordingly. Swerve and Spellskite may end up being auto includes in lists that run Omen.
Protect Prismatic Omen, in my hypothetical rambling. Which is where the whole convoluting of the combo comes from.
forgive me if I don't make sense. I am at my wife's family's party drinking for my own entertainment and trying to post from my phone discretely.
*Slow Clap*
My buddy decided to get into Modern and just bought himself Jund. He's not too sure how to play it, so we're going to get together in the next week and just play 20+ games. I'm going to take 2 SB's to it. My normal one, and a transitional Primeval Titan, Prismatic Omen one. What I need to decide is how many of each do I need? My best guess is 3 Primeval, 4 Prismatic, and 2 extra Valakut (to get the full 4), but I'd like a second opinion.
GWBJunk TokensBWG
Modern
GURScapeshiftRUG
BGRDredgevineRGB
URSTORM!RU
UWTezzeret ControlWU
Legacy
BWStonebladeWB
BUGBUG ControlGUB
I am going to test Spreading Seas as well and see if it is effective and relevant in other matchups besides Jund.
I cannot wait for my LGS to start modern FNM, so much testing will get done.
We're playing tonight (To celebrate the end of Christmas), so I'll post a report tomorrow.
@rxavage I tried Spreading Seas for a bit as anit-jund/tron tech. The issue is, Jund has Deathrite Shaman and Tron has all the cantrips, so at best you slow them a turn, and worst it does nothing. Turn 2 we need to be ramping, or holding up a counterspell.
GWBJunk TokensBWG
Modern
GURScapeshiftRUG
BGRDredgevineRGB
URSTORM!RU
UWTezzeret ControlWU
Legacy
BWStonebladeWB
BUGBUG ControlGUB
Omen is a great card if you're playing 4x maindeck Valakut. Why? Because hardcasting omen will allow you to burn your opponent off simply by hitting your land drops with a valakut in play. It also doubles as an alternative win condition when your scapeshifts get extracted by Slaughter Games. Having inevitability in a combo deck such as scapeshift is a huge advantage, especially when that type of inevitability is hard to hate out. The only drawback of playing omen is that you don't want multiples, and if you want to play cryptic command, it'll be rather difficult when you're accomodating for 4x valakuts maindeck.
If you have two valakuts in play, every fetch land you play with 6 lands in play turns into 12 damage. So long story short, omen is a good card, but it requires some building around. If I were playing an omen build, I would start by making the manabase work with 4x valakut, and I would also be sure to play at least 2 Muddle the Mixtures since they can protect the scapeshift combo, or tutor for Snapcasters / Prismatic Omens.
That sb looks good and I agree with the recommendation of 2 Baloth.
You're right about SS, I didn't even think about that, I was caught up in the fact that it cantrips and was blinded.
@ wilier
Everything looks great, even both sideboards, except for the 4 explore. I feel that 2 is correct unless you're running Cultivate or run 27 land; those other 2 slots could be another Pyroclasm, or 2, or another Omen but definitely another 'clasm.
I don't own any Baloths, but they do seem nice. If my buddy owns any I'll put them in for the Extraction and a Pierce. I doubt I would do this if I didn't know I was playing Jund over and over.
As for Spell Pierce vs Negate, I'm considering switching one Pierce out for a Negate in my real SB, as it's so good in the mirror and against Tron. I love Pierce due to it's ability to cheaply shut down faster combo, and to counter a T2 Liliana of the Veil, but I can see the merits of both.
GWBJunk TokensBWG
Modern
GURScapeshiftRUG
BGRDredgevineRGB
URSTORM!RU
UWTezzeret ControlWU
Legacy
BWStonebladeWB
BUGBUG ControlGUB