well, zoo just lost its stranglehold on the format. I don't imagine this bodes well for us; losing the deck that we foil just can't be good for our performance. I'm not saying that zoo is dead, nowhere near it, but it is no longer going to be 50% of the meta like we've been used to.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
well, zoo just lost its stranglehold on the format. I don't imagine this bodes well for us; losing the deck that we foil just can't be good for our performance. I'm not saying that zoo is dead, nowhere near it, but it is no longer going to be 50% of the meta like we've been used to.
until people realize that it has lost pretty much nothing. Punishing fire wasn't needed for zoo to own other aggro decks, and it was actually worse than tribal flames against combo and control.
Nactl isn't even the fastest/biggest one drop that zoo could run. Steppe lynx is faster and bigger, but is less consistent. If anything zoo just got faster but slightly less consistent.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
I am actually very happy with the B/R list changes, I feel they were very well reasoned and appropriate (but I was also one of the few who considered nacatl ban-worthy before December 20th, so I was already of this opinion before the update was released). What the B/R change does is it makes zoo no longer an aggro deck automatically situated as midrange against other aggro decks (consider the midrange card call of the herd, it's very strong, but if those tokens are trading with your opponent's 1-drops, you're gonna lose. Instead, zoo had one-drops bigger than any other dorks that non-zoo could run, allowing zoo to aggress against non-aggro decks in perfect form and yet simultaneously be positioned as the midrange deck against other aggro decks).
PK Fire makes sense too because it preyed on all non-zoo aggro.
What i'm concerned about here are the meta-shifts. Zoo is still a great deck. I think it always will be in this format unless something dramatic happens. But it no longer is an automatic "best deck". This means the meta is unknown and volatile. What I worry about is that the new decks that can finally compete might be stronger positioned against those of us still playing balance than the old zoo lists that we beat handily.
I spoke on the topic of the banlist to set the frame of reference for my point in the second paragraph. I hope this isn't considered infractionable for "discussing the ban list" outside the relevant thread. I feel it was necessary for the discussion in this thread to continue on the topic of the deck's position in the new meta
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Flores suggested flagstones and made it a base RW deck with the splash for the cascade cards. It seems good but need to test it when i get all the cards.
Flores suggested flagstones and made it a base RW deck with the splash for the cascade cards. It seems good but need to test it when i get all the cards.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
That is a funky list. I'll give it a try to test resiliency, but 21 land just feels wrong on so many levels.
His deck is focused on very much on gargadon (Making it a little clunkier than ST). Lets look at the cons and pros:
Pros:
It is one turn faster
Better against hate
Less mana screw
Cons:
Now you cant play any 4 drops, as you are wrathing last turn.
More dependant on one card, gedon, going to a level that you cant win without it.
You cant wrath twice
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
I don't know, the concept that you're reliant on a 4-of that you have no way to tutor or dig for... It concerns me.
I play blue in all my builds, and even with blue, I feel the deck is too inconsistent. Flores' version of the list looks horrible on paper. Granted, I'll have to test it to be sure, but it just looks so bad.
If you don't get the Gargadon in your opener, you have to stall until you can draw it. Storm will most likely have you dead by then, as will lots of other decks. Until turn 3, your only defense is Dismember, which will likely hurt you to cast. The totems can't be activated until turn 4, at the earliest. Finks comes down turn 3, but won't stop Storm, Melira, mono-red, affinity...
Maybe we can combine Flores' idea with some other ideas, say a splash of blue for Gifts Ungiven and include Unburial Rites with a small creature package, and maybe some SSGs... I don't know. I'm horrible when analyzing decks and building decks, so I'm tossing ideas out there.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
On Mythic Rares: "What's next, Wizards will print six golden Black Lotuses and randomly place them in boosters, and if someone gets one, they get to tour the Wizards facility?"
flagstones in this dck is just a bad idea it's like saying I want lands in play to sacrifice. during a balance. I don't see this build being anygood and I have played the deck a while you are better off with the straight boarderpost march build than this one.
despite that gargadon can still be kill you are looking at a format with path to exile and cryptic command giving your opponent as much land as his deck is well it just doesn't work like the deck is meant to.
I went 5-0
round 1: 2-1 vs affinity (i lost due to a godhand on his side and no cascader on mine)
round 2: 2-1 vs GW vengevine beats (lost due to resolved balance, he discards 3 vengevines, keeping 1 hawk, topdecks a lotus cobra, plays them both)
round 3: 2-0 vs GB rock
round 4: 2-1 vs bant delver
round 5: 2-1 vs ugr delver
The deck is awesome
Congrats! I bought some Nihilith's a while back for this deck, but never formed a list with them. Maybe I'll pick up some Liliana's and give your list a try.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
On Mythic Rares: "What's next, Wizards will print six golden Black Lotuses and randomly place them in boosters, and if someone gets one, they get to tour the Wizards facility?"
Wow, it's surprise after surprise to see how the users of this thread are able to show new versions and points of view of this deck. As said before, congratulations!
By the way, could Liliana of the Veil be subtituted by a cheaper card in kaas' deck?
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
until people realize that it has lost pretty much nothing. Punishing fire wasn't needed for zoo to own other aggro decks, and it was actually worse than tribal flames against combo and control.
Nactl isn't even the fastest/biggest one drop that zoo could run. Steppe lynx is faster and bigger, but is less consistent. If anything zoo just got faster but slightly less consistent.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
On another note all this means is people are going to be looking into affinity a lot more.
PK Fire makes sense too because it preyed on all non-zoo aggro.
What i'm concerned about here are the meta-shifts. Zoo is still a great deck. I think it always will be in this format unless something dramatic happens. But it no longer is an automatic "best deck". This means the meta is unknown and volatile. What I worry about is that the new decks that can finally compete might be stronger positioned against those of us still playing balance than the old zoo lists that we beat handily.
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
Standard
Goblins
Extended
Nothing
Legacy
Spring tide
MY twitter
Http://twitter.com/Piggyboy1
care to elaborate at all? right now all I'm getting is "[teaser plug for SCG premium]"
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
Standard
Goblins
Extended
Nothing
Legacy
Spring tide
MY twitter
Http://twitter.com/Piggyboy1
list?
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
Artifacts
4 Fieldmist Borderpost
1 Firewild Borderpost
4 Foriysian Totem
4 Thunder Totem
3 Wildfield Borderpost
Creatures
4 Greater Gargadon
4 Kitchen Finks
Enchantments
4 Ardent Plea
Instants
3 Dismember
4 Violent Outburst
Sorceries
4 Restore Balance
Basic Lands
2 Mountain
3 Plains
Lands
4 Arid Mesa
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
Legendary Lands
4 Flagstones of Trokair
Sideboard:
3 Detritivore
4 Rhox War Monk
4 Beast Within
3 Boil
1 Dismember
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That is a funky list. I'll give it a try to test resiliency, but 21 land just feels wrong on so many levels.
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
His deck is focused on very much on gargadon (Making it a little clunkier than ST). Lets look at the cons and pros:
Pros:
It is one turn faster
Better against hate
Less mana screw
Cons:
Now you cant play any 4 drops, as you are wrathing last turn.
More dependant on one card, gedon, going to a level that you cant win without it.
You cant wrath twice
My errata'd commons cube
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
I play blue in all my builds, and even with blue, I feel the deck is too inconsistent. Flores' version of the list looks horrible on paper. Granted, I'll have to test it to be sure, but it just looks so bad.
If you don't get the Gargadon in your opener, you have to stall until you can draw it. Storm will most likely have you dead by then, as will lots of other decks. Until turn 3, your only defense is Dismember, which will likely hurt you to cast. The totems can't be activated until turn 4, at the earliest. Finks comes down turn 3, but won't stop Storm, Melira, mono-red, affinity...
Maybe we can combine Flores' idea with some other ideas, say a splash of blue for Gifts Ungiven and include Unburial Rites with a small creature package, and maybe some SSGs... I don't know. I'm horrible when analyzing decks and building decks, so I'm tossing ideas out there.
On Mythic Rares: "What's next, Wizards will print six golden Black Lotuses and randomly place them in boosters, and if someone gets one, they get to tour the Wizards facility?"
Wydwen|Edric|Sakashima|Marrow-Gnawer|Hazezon
8.5 Tails|Seton|Rasputin|Doran|Gisela|Karona|Márton
Congrats! I bought some Nihilith's a while back for this deck, but never formed a list with them. Maybe I'll pick up some Liliana's and give your list a try.
On Mythic Rares: "What's next, Wizards will print six golden Black Lotuses and randomly place them in boosters, and if someone gets one, they get to tour the Wizards facility?"
Wydwen|Edric|Sakashima|Marrow-Gnawer|Hazezon
8.5 Tails|Seton|Rasputin|Doran|Gisela|Karona|Márton
Not really man, she's so versatile. Riftwing Cloudskate is decent