thought gorger seems like a pretty techy way to remove your hand while pseudo protecting it at the same time (countering the gorger doesn't leave you with an empty hand).
in essence it's the only 'safe' way i can think of to temporarily drop your hand without fear of never getting it back again.
thought gorger seems like a pretty techy way to remove your hand while pseudo protecting it at the same time (countering the gorger doesn't leave you with an empty hand).
in essence it's the only 'safe' way i can think of to temporarily drop your hand without fear of never getting it back again.
the gorger could be pretty insane combined with a suspended balance, followed by the gargadon.
The problems with Thought Gorger mainly are:
1. If you are having to rely on a suspended balance, how are you going to live until it goes off.
2. You play thought gorger and pitch your hand, pass to them and they combo kill you. Even if you have a suspended balance they still get a completely unmolested turn to do whatever they want.
I've been playing the list on MTGO for the past week or so. It's a decent list, and I've been toying with replacing Gideon with Tezzeret the Seeker. I played this deck in extended when it was legal and loved it, so I wanted to recreate for Modern.
This list has it's ups and downs. For instance, I've absolutely demolished a lot of decks. Simian Spirit Guide is very nice. I've been in games where they destroyed my red source of mana, but I still had a green and one other. They think they'll kill me, or tap or, or go for Exarch-Twin combo, then bam! Simian Spirit Guide into Violent Outburst.
This version of the deck does have a weakness: Thought Hemorrhage and it's likes kill this deck. This version of the deck relies on Restore Balance, and if it's exiled, you're pooched. I want to add Boom//Bust to the deck, but it doesn't deal with creatures.
Another thought I had was to cut the Idyllic Tutors. However, they have been MVPs when I can tutor up an Ardent Plea or a Blood Moon. I also want to cut March of the Machines, but again, it's been awesome. It's just awkward to use Restore Balance when I have more "creatures" than the opponent.
I'll probably make some changes based on this thread. This deck is a blast to play, and I hope it does well.
EDIT: Another thing was that my sideboard for my Extended deck was a transformative sideboard. It was strictly creatures, such as Baneslayer Angel, Kitchen Finks, and others. A lot of people were running hate for my deck, so I had to adapt or die.
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Doesnt sound bad... we are running allmost all colors in the format.... preeetty sure we could fit in some nasty like Exarch/Twin in the Sideboard ,)
Just like nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition, nobody would the Exarch Twin combo from this deck. Cool idea!
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Sideboard 2x Boom/Bust (Additional LD, may cut.) 2x Crime/Punishment (Stops Exarch Twin.) 2x Firespout (Kills those pesky Ethersworn Canonists) 3x Ingot Chewer (Kills Chalice of the Void.) 2x Krosan Grip (Uncounterable kill for Chalice or Canonist, may cut.) 2x Leyline of Sanctity (Stops Grapeshot storm.) 2x Mindbreak Trap (Catch-all for combo [Storm decks, Goblin Charbelcher combo, Second Sunrise decks, just a solid card vs combo.])
I've played a few matches so far (I know, not very extensive) but so far, so good.
The deck ran no land, but had Lotus Blooms, Mox Opals, Simian Spirit Guides, and the usual package of mana accel. I had no clue what to expect, so he got me the first game with Charbelcher.
Second game, I sided in Leyline of Sanctity and Mindbreak Trap. My first hand was not keepable, so I mulled into a hand with some borderposts, a land, a cascader, and a Mindbreak Trap. Sure enough, he tried to combo and the Trap stopped him. He then played an Empty the Warrens, but I cascaded and wiped the board. He conceded.
Third game, I had to mull to four or five. I kept a no-lander, some borderposts, and a Mindbreak Trap. He tried to go for the combo, I stopped him, and he conceded.
Next match: Mono-Black discard.
Game one, I had everything I needed in hand, except a red source. A Smallpox killed my singleton Mountain, and I did not draw a red source for a LONG time. Due to all of his discard, I was very lucky to keep an Ardent Plea in my hand. I cascaded, cleared his board (three land, one creature) and his hand of all but one card. On my turn 10, I suspended a Restore Balance. Turn 11, he cast an Augur of Skulls. I flashed in a Vendilion Clique at end of turn. Turn 13, he killed it. I flashed in another, which was killed before I could swing in. Turn 16, my Restore Balance went off, destroying his land. Turn 17, I flashed in another V. Clique. He conceded.
Third match: Zoo (I believe. Naya colored, Grove/Punishing Fires/Kavu combo.)
Game one, I mulled into a keeper. Turn 2, he cast Gaddock Teeg. Turn three, I was able to cascade, but he only had three land and Teeg. I waited. Turn 5, end of his turn, he cast Punishing Fire. His turn 6, I was at 12, he attacked with Mr. Teeg. I cast Violent Outburst, wiping his field and making him discard one card. My turn 6, I played a land, cast Tezzeret the Seeker, used his +1, and passed. His turn 7, played a Temple Garden untapped, dropping him to 15 (important!) and cast a Noble Hierarch. My turn 7, used Tezz's -5, and swung with four 5/5 Borderposts. He promptly died.
Game 2, I had no idea what to expect from his side. (for whatever reason, I can't pull up the replay from games two and three on MTGO.) Long story short, I completely forgot about the existence of Ethersworn Canonist and lost because I did not side properly. Ancient Grudge is a beating, too.
Game 3, knowing better what to expect, I sided in 2 Ingot Chewers and 2 Firespouts. I mulled to three and immediately thought I had no chance, but since it was tournament practive, I figured I'd stay in and play, learn more about the deck, refine my play, etc. My opener was Restore Balance, a GW Borderpost, and a fetch land. My first turn, I play the fetch, pass. His first turn, Hierarch, pass. I crack my fetch for a Mountain. Turn 2, I draw a UW borderpost. I play both of my borderposts and pass. His turn two, he drops a Canonist. My turn 3, I draw and play a Borderpost. His turn 3, he drops a Kavu Predator, a Grove of the Burnwillows, and pumps his Kavu. He does not attack. My turn 4, I draw and play Firespout. From here, I quickly regained control of the game, and won.
I decided I need more red sources, so I'll probably drop a GW borderpost for a BR one. I may shell out more money for a better land base, too. Another change I may make (way too early to tell) is dropping Riftwing Cloudskates. I've only been able to use them once. I remember them being pretty good in the extended version I played, but it seems when I'm playing in Modern, I never want to see them. But, as I said, I need to do more testing before I decide. I also want to make some changes to the sideboard. Blood Moon would have absolutely wrecked the Zoo match up. I would like to try the Exarch Twin plan, but it could very well weaken the match ups against certain decks. Before I implement the Exarch Twin combo, I'd have to revamp my mana base.
I'd likely only use it for matches that went to game three, against decks that side hate for Living End decks. A lot of their tech is good against us, too.
On Mythic Rares: "What's next, Wizards will print six golden Black Lotuses and randomly place them in boosters, and if someone gets one, they get to tour the Wizards facility?"
Well that is the thing, I keep getting 3-4 lands with 14 lands in the deck (for whatever reason), therefore I mulligan A LOT with that number.
I've experienced the same thing, even when I ran 13 land.
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This deck was in the packs in a daily event on the 11th. If it can pull down 1-2 more I might have to move it to Developing. Keep it up.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
Looks interesting. Gemstone Mine is interesting tech. Use it a few times, and it won't matter if you sac it or not. However, it can weaken putting Borderposts into play the first few turns. Kitchen Finks comes down early, and persists through the first Balance (if you use the stack right.) Two main deck Dismembers, a Jace Beleren, two March of the Machines... A Treetop Village, I like that. The list looks very interesting.
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This guys sideboard baffles the hell out of me. Why all the one ofs? Like one of Ghostly Prison yet he doesn't have the tutor package in the deck. Color me confused.
This, also the landbase is bloody random, same as his enchant package without tutors.. heck even MD..
And yet he went 3-1, and he can't lie about those results... Makes me feel good about trying my version in a daily. Hopefully I'll have time soon.
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Game one, he gained tons of life (went to 150 or so.) before I could wipe the field. Because his Kitchen Finks persisted through a Balance, he kept on chaining with Birthing Pod. He chained Finks into Ranger of Eos (getting Birds of Paradise and a Viscera Seer), Ranger into Reveillark, Rev into Sun Titan getting stuff. I did another Restore Balance and he conceded. During this matchup, I see why Leyline of the Void is in the sideboard of the guy who went 3-1.
Game two, he got an Ethersworn Canonist into play. He attacked me, at which point I flashed in a Vendilion Clique and blocked. In response, he used a Chord of Calling to get a Tidehollow Sculler, grabbing my only cascade spell. That's ok, I'll bide my time. And bide I did. Eventually, he got a Sun Titan into play, and a card that when he devours, makes the opponent discard their hand. After all the creatures were in play, I cascaded. He conceded.
Round three: Storm Combo
Game one, I can't cascade due to not having the right colors in play. Empty the Warrens into a Goblin Bushwhacker. Game two, I mull to three due to not having any land in any of my hands. They would have been keepers with merely one land, but alas, I suffer from playing only 14 land. Lost to the same combo. I probably should have chanced it with my first hand, I had a Gargadon, a cascader, and some borderposts... Just no land.
Round four: Zoo
Game one, Got him. Standard stuff. Games two and three, I could do nothing due to Rule of Law. I sided in game two to deal with Ethersworn Canonist, but he dropped the Rule. Game three, I only two ways to deal with Rule. He drops Rule turn 3, before I can casacde. I do not draw into a Krosan Grip.
Final thoughts:
All in all, horrible night. Went 1-3 when I easily could have won it all. Such is life. I see why some cards are in the sideboard of the 3-1 list, I see what I need to change... I'm running 2x Tezz in my list, he can easily be cut. I never cast him, as the games were over before I could get five mana. I'll replace him with something. Some spot removal could be useful. Overall, I'm disappointed, as I've always been able to stomp over Zoo and Storm combo.
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I wanted to hail Past in Flames as a potentially awesome card for the deck, then I realized flashback doesn't work with Restore Balance...
I'm considering adding in a Reminisce or two. I'm getting tired of only having Vendilion Clique as the only way to get Restore Balance back into the deck. Are there any other good cards for this? Either a way to put cards from hand back into the library, or from the graveyard to the library.
I've been running into a large stream of bad luck as of late. I haven't won a single match in Tournament Practice all week.
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how come i don't see any love for rift bolt anywhere? not even in the card options? sheesh. its not THAT bad. in the lists i've tested its really nice vs. zoo to kill their nacatl early, but obv. it has plenty more uses.
I'm considering adding in a Reminisce or two. I'm getting tired of only having Vendilion Clique as the only way to get Restore Balance back into the deck. Are there any other good cards for this? Either a way to put cards from hand back into the library, or from the graveyard to the library.
Loaming Shaman, I do think most of you have missed this card. The next best way to put a balance back in your deck, along with anything else. And he can chump/sac to gargadon. If you want to run something other than Vendilion I would run 2 of this guy so you can have one target the other, but if a game goes that long I think something is wrong.
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in essence it's the only 'safe' way i can think of to temporarily drop your hand without fear of never getting it back again.
bottled cloister?
the gorger could be pretty insane combined with a suspended balance, followed by the gargadon.
The problems with Thought Gorger mainly are:
1. If you are having to rely on a suspended balance, how are you going to live until it goes off.
2. You play thought gorger and pitch your hand, pass to them and they combo kill you. Even if you have a suspended balance they still get a completely unmolested turn to do whatever they want.
Deck list for reference:
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Mountain
2 Plains
4 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Greater Gargadon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Ardent Plea
1 Blood Moon
4 Fieldmist Borderpost
4 Firewild Borderpost
2 Gideon Jura
4 Idyllic Tutor
1 March of the Machines
3 Mistvein Borderpost
1 Oblivion Ring
4 Restore Balance
2 Thieves' Fortune
1 Veinfire Borderpost
4 Violent Outburst
4 Wildfield Borderpost
2 Dismember
2 Firespout
3 Ingot Chewer
2 Krosan Grip
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Leyline of Singularity
2 Mindbreak Trap
I've been playing the list on MTGO for the past week or so. It's a decent list, and I've been toying with replacing Gideon with Tezzeret the Seeker. I played this deck in extended when it was legal and loved it, so I wanted to recreate for Modern.
This list has it's ups and downs. For instance, I've absolutely demolished a lot of decks. Simian Spirit Guide is very nice. I've been in games where they destroyed my red source of mana, but I still had a green and one other. They think they'll kill me, or tap or, or go for Exarch-Twin combo, then bam! Simian Spirit Guide into Violent Outburst.
This version of the deck does have a weakness: Thought Hemorrhage and it's likes kill this deck. This version of the deck relies on Restore Balance, and if it's exiled, you're pooched. I want to add Boom//Bust to the deck, but it doesn't deal with creatures.
Another thought I had was to cut the Idyllic Tutors. However, they have been MVPs when I can tutor up an Ardent Plea or a Blood Moon. I also want to cut March of the Machines, but again, it's been awesome. It's just awkward to use Restore Balance when I have more "creatures" than the opponent.
When I ran the deck in Extended, I ran Phyrexian Totem along with Demonic Dread. It also ran Vendilion Cliques and Riftwing Cloudskates, and I really miss having Ajani Vengeant. I'm strongly considering making the changes, probably taking out some Borderposts, the tutors, and possibly the Spirit Guides.
I'll probably make some changes based on this thread. This deck is a blast to play, and I hope it does well.
EDIT: Another thing was that my sideboard for my Extended deck was a transformative sideboard. It was strictly creatures, such as Baneslayer Angel, Kitchen Finks, and others. A lot of people were running hate for my deck, so I had to adapt or die.
On Mythic Rares: "What's next, Wizards will print six golden Black Lotuses and randomly place them in boosters, and if someone gets one, they get to tour the Wizards facility?"
Wydwen|Edric|Sakashima|Marrow-Gnawer|Hazezon
8.5 Tails|Seton|Rasputin|Doran|Gisela|Karona|Márton
Just like nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition, nobody would the Exarch Twin combo from this deck. Cool idea!
On Mythic Rares: "What's next, Wizards will print six golden Black Lotuses and randomly place them in boosters, and if someone gets one, they get to tour the Wizards facility?"
Wydwen|Edric|Sakashima|Marrow-Gnawer|Hazezon
8.5 Tails|Seton|Rasputin|Doran|Gisela|Karona|Márton
4x Evolving Wilds
1x Forest
2x Island
1x Mountain
1x Plains
4x Terramorphic Expanse
"Land" (15)
4x Fieldmist Borderpost
4x Firewild Borderpost
3x Mistvein Borderpost
4x Wildfield Borderpost
4x Ardent Plea
4x Violent Outburst
The Rest (24)
2x Ajani Vengeant
4x Greater Gargadon
4x Restore Balance
4x Riftwing Cloudskate
2x Tezzeret the Seeker
4x Thirst for Knowledge
4x Vendilion Clique
2x Boom/Bust (Additional LD, may cut.)
2x Crime/Punishment (Stops Exarch Twin.)
2x Firespout (Kills those pesky Ethersworn Canonists)
3x Ingot Chewer (Kills Chalice of the Void.)
2x Krosan Grip (Uncounterable kill for Chalice or Canonist, may cut.)
2x Leyline of Sanctity (Stops Grapeshot storm.)
2x Mindbreak Trap (Catch-all for combo [Storm decks, Goblin Charbelcher combo, Second Sunrise decks, just a solid card vs combo.])
I've played a few matches so far (I know, not very extensive) but so far, so good.
First match was against a Goblin Charbelcher combo deck.
Second game, I sided in Leyline of Sanctity and Mindbreak Trap. My first hand was not keepable, so I mulled into a hand with some borderposts, a land, a cascader, and a Mindbreak Trap. Sure enough, he tried to combo and the Trap stopped him. He then played an Empty the Warrens, but I cascaded and wiped the board. He conceded.
Third game, I had to mull to four or five. I kept a no-lander, some borderposts, and a Mindbreak Trap. He tried to go for the combo, I stopped him, and he conceded.
Next match: Mono-Black discard.
Game 2: I started with a Leyline of Sanctity in my hand/play. Turn 2, Ravenous Rats, turn 3, another, turn 4, Phyrexian Obliterator. I end of turned a Thirst for Knowledge, found the mountain I needed, cast a Borderpost, put the mountain into play, and passed. . Turn 5, he attacked. Violent Outburst caused him to concede.
Third match: Zoo (I believe. Naya colored, Grove/Punishing Fires/Kavu combo.)
Game 2, I had no idea what to expect from his side. (for whatever reason, I can't pull up the replay from games two and three on MTGO.) Long story short, I completely forgot about the existence of Ethersworn Canonist and lost because I did not side properly. Ancient Grudge is a beating, too.
Game 3, knowing better what to expect, I sided in 2 Ingot Chewers and 2 Firespouts. I mulled to three and immediately thought I had no chance, but since it was tournament practive, I figured I'd stay in and play, learn more about the deck, refine my play, etc. My opener was Restore Balance, a GW Borderpost, and a fetch land. My first turn, I play the fetch, pass. His first turn, Hierarch, pass. I crack my fetch for a Mountain. Turn 2, I draw a UW borderpost. I play both of my borderposts and pass. His turn two, he drops a Canonist. My turn 3, I draw and play a Borderpost. His turn 3, he drops a Kavu Predator, a Grove of the Burnwillows, and pumps his Kavu. He does not attack. My turn 4, I draw and play Firespout. From here, I quickly regained control of the game, and won.
I decided I need more red sources, so I'll probably drop a GW borderpost for a BR one. I may shell out more money for a better land base, too. Another change I may make (way too early to tell) is dropping Riftwing Cloudskates. I've only been able to use them once. I remember them being pretty good in the extended version I played, but it seems when I'm playing in Modern, I never want to see them. But, as I said, I need to do more testing before I decide. I also want to make some changes to the sideboard. Blood Moon would have absolutely wrecked the Zoo match up. I would like to try the Exarch Twin plan, but it could very well weaken the match ups against certain decks. Before I implement the Exarch Twin combo, I'd have to revamp my mana base.
With my current deck (assume I have a better mana base) my sideboard would look like:
2x Mindbreak Trap
2x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Ingot Chewer
3x Deceiver Exarch
3x Splinter Twin
I'd likely only use it for matches that went to game three, against decks that side hate for Living End decks. A lot of their tech is good against us, too.
EDIT: I also want to incorporate ways to tutor for Greater Gargadon. Maybe a couple copies of Congregation at Dawn could do the trick.
On Mythic Rares: "What's next, Wizards will print six golden Black Lotuses and randomly place them in boosters, and if someone gets one, they get to tour the Wizards facility?"
Wydwen|Edric|Sakashima|Marrow-Gnawer|Hazezon
8.5 Tails|Seton|Rasputin|Doran|Gisela|Karona|Márton
I've experienced the same thing, even when I ran 13 land.
On Mythic Rares: "What's next, Wizards will print six golden Black Lotuses and randomly place them in boosters, and if someone gets one, they get to tour the Wizards facility?"
Wydwen|Edric|Sakashima|Marrow-Gnawer|Hazezon
8.5 Tails|Seton|Rasputin|Doran|Gisela|Karona|Márton
Decklist:
1 Arid Mesa
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Marsh Flats
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Treetop Village
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Forest
1 Island
2 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Swamp
"Land" (14)
3 Fieldmist Borderpost
4 Firewild Borderpost
2 Mistvein Borderpost
2 Veinfire Borderpost
2 Wildfield Borderpost
1 Phyrexian Totem
4 Greater Gargadon
1 Kitchen Finks
4 Simian Spirit Guide
Others (12)
1 Blood Moon
2 Dismember
1 Jace Beleren
2 March of the Machines
4 Restore Balance
2 Thirst for Knowledge
Cascaders (10)
4 Ardent Plea
2 Demonic Dread
4 Violent Outburst
1 Aura of Silence
1 Culling Scales
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Ingot Chewer
3 Kitchen Finks
1 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Leyline of Singularity
1 Leyline of the Void
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Spawnwrithe
Looks interesting. Gemstone Mine is interesting tech. Use it a few times, and it won't matter if you sac it or not. However, it can weaken putting Borderposts into play the first few turns. Kitchen Finks comes down early, and persists through the first Balance (if you use the stack right.) Two main deck Dismembers, a Jace Beleren, two March of the Machines... A Treetop Village, I like that. The list looks very interesting.
On Mythic Rares: "What's next, Wizards will print six golden Black Lotuses and randomly place them in boosters, and if someone gets one, they get to tour the Wizards facility?"
Wydwen|Edric|Sakashima|Marrow-Gnawer|Hazezon
8.5 Tails|Seton|Rasputin|Doran|Gisela|Karona|Márton
And yet he went 3-1, and he can't lie about those results... Makes me feel good about trying my version in a daily. Hopefully I'll have time soon.
On Mythic Rares: "What's next, Wizards will print six golden Black Lotuses and randomly place them in boosters, and if someone gets one, they get to tour the Wizards facility?"
Wydwen|Edric|Sakashima|Marrow-Gnawer|Hazezon
8.5 Tails|Seton|Rasputin|Doran|Gisela|Karona|Márton
Decklist:
4x Evolving Wilds
1x Forest
2x Island
2x Mountain
1x Plains
4x Terramorphic Expanse
"Land" (14)
3x Fieldmist Borderpost
4x Firewild Borderpost
3x Mistvein Borderpost
3x Wildfield Borderpost
1x Veinfire Borderpost
4x Ardent Plea
4x Violent Outburst
The Rest (24)
2x Ajani Vengeant
4x Greater Gargadon
4x Restore Balance
4x Simian Spirit Guide
2x Tezzeret the Seeker
4x Thirst for Knowledge
4x Vendilion Clique
2x Boom/Bust
2x Crime/Punishment
2x Firespout
3x Ingot Chewer
2x Krosan Grip
2x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Mindbreak Trap
Round One: Affinity
Round Two: Melira Persist Combo
Game two, he got an Ethersworn Canonist into play. He attacked me, at which point I flashed in a Vendilion Clique and blocked. In response, he used a Chord of Calling to get a Tidehollow Sculler, grabbing my only cascade spell. That's ok, I'll bide my time. And bide I did. Eventually, he got a Sun Titan into play, and a card that when he devours, makes the opponent discard their hand. After all the creatures were in play, I cascaded. He conceded.
Round three: Storm Combo
Round four: Zoo
Final thoughts:
On Mythic Rares: "What's next, Wizards will print six golden Black Lotuses and randomly place them in boosters, and if someone gets one, they get to tour the Wizards facility?"
Wydwen|Edric|Sakashima|Marrow-Gnawer|Hazezon
8.5 Tails|Seton|Rasputin|Doran|Gisela|Karona|Márton
Magic is a game of variance though, he could have just faced favorable everything, or he could be an absolute master. We shall never know.
I'm considering adding in a Reminisce or two. I'm getting tired of only having Vendilion Clique as the only way to get Restore Balance back into the deck. Are there any other good cards for this? Either a way to put cards from hand back into the library, or from the graveyard to the library.
I've been running into a large stream of bad luck as of late. I haven't won a single match in Tournament Practice all week.
On Mythic Rares: "What's next, Wizards will print six golden Black Lotuses and randomly place them in boosters, and if someone gets one, they get to tour the Wizards facility?"
Wydwen|Edric|Sakashima|Marrow-Gnawer|Hazezon
8.5 Tails|Seton|Rasputin|Doran|Gisela|Karona|Márton
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicySee Beyond?? 1 less mana, CA+1
I do not sign 5yr+ old cards. Please do not pm me for this.
said before and will be again... we dont want to cascade into it, it gets in the way.
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Fish
Dredge
EDH
Sharuum
Brute force can sometimes knock down a locked door,
But Knowledge is a skeleton key.
~Jace Beleren~