Yeah KGC isn't really my cup of tea, though I could see him being valuable if built around.
I would love to try out Force of Negation, though I worry we don't play enough blue spells for it to be super effective, and upping the blue count means we would play less artifacts so Thirst for Knowledge becomes a lot worse. In the Pitch Blue Narset deck the pitch spells are valuable because the deck is roughly 70% blue cards, and that's including being able to cheat and use Mistvein Borderpost as a land that's also blue card, which we can't really do. Playing more Torrential Gearhulks could help, but there's not too many useful blue artifacts unfortunately.
That being said, a free counter is incredibly powerful, could be worthwhile playing a few in the sideboard as a trick against combo/control decks? I will have to test it to be sure.
I've been loving Force of negation, the math behind the cards actually says that 16-17 blue cards is enough. If you want one in your opening hand and a blue card you need to up it a little bit to 19 for it to be reliable. There is an article by Frank Karsten on CFB that breaks it down further, and one for Force of Will by Caleb Durward also on CFB. We are basically playing the minimum to have it be 90%+ chance of having a card to pitch, which should be enough.
Always having a card to pitch to thirst isn't always needed, normally the card selection is enough. The card advantage half of the card is certainly nice though. I'm currently playing 12 maindeck artifacts and have never felt bad about discarding 2 or having a Walking Ballista or Expedition Map to discard.
I've been loving Force of negation, the math behind the cards actually says that 16-17 blue cards is enough. If you want one in your opening hand and a blue card you need to up it a little bit to 19 for it to be reliable. There is an article by Frank Karsten on CFB that breaks it down further, and one for Force of Will by Caleb Durward also on CFB. We are basically playing the minimum to have it be 90%+ chance of having a card to pitch, which should be enough.
Always having a card to pitch to thirst isn't always needed, normally the card selection is enough. The card advantage half of the card is certainly nice though. I'm currently playing 12 maindeck artifacts and have never felt bad about discarding 2 or having a Walking Ballista or Expedition Map to discard.
That's just the odds of having something to pitch to Force though, meaning you might be discarding your only other piece of interaction, or that card draw that you really wanted to find another answer.
It's possible that it's not really a problem, like I said more testing needs to be done with the card.
By the way, I beg anyone who still has to try Force of Negation here to do so as soon as possible. While i’m not that much into U Tron right now, I had very decent results almost always on the back of it.
Hi,
wanted to share my latest iteration of the deck from Karn appearence.
I discussed earlier with shock on the decklist, but what everybody seems to agree is in cutting high costs from main.
I started with 1 Minds 1 Wurmcoil 1 titan, now cut the titan, then cut 1 wurmcoil and added 1 relic main and then siwthced it again because hoggak no longer exists, so high costs are low now. (mintaining chalice, EE, snap, WB, full remands, etc.)
also 3 walking main is also an staple - love the card
I think I have moreless my main done - still need to figure out what to do if adding relic to main or not, but now hogak has gone i think wurmcoil will prevail.
there are lots of explnations and options as from Karan appearance lot has been done, I'll share some:
- in the side at first I had silent arbiter - dismissed - does nothing at least for me.
- trini was not in the side - but it is key agains red phenix! thnaks Shok.
- had 1 cage / 1 relic - but cage does not avoid dredge...
- batterskull is great for mana curve.
- thinking in adding Spine , but for the moment 4 bouncers has been fine to handle stony effects.
- still didn't lost to humans and neither my playmate - blast zone is a house.
- still undecided to try bridge - sure shok disagrees in here, but dont know, any other opinion on this? the theory says that bridge is not good in our strategy...
- tried also 1 caverns and added a 3rd talisman but preferred to take it out and add a snow island - not sure on this...
- added also 4th remand
- just remember the last day i faced a control deck with 2 surgicals main - still hogak era - and well he was able to surgical - my Towers, my ballistas, my tectonic edge and also my karns. and I won anyway, Ihad just BZone /OStone / crucible ARuins engine and thats it, really love the deck...
- I really would like to have more dismembers/like in side, but not really needed, I just sometimes add the 4th ballista main or EE or Chalice, and vs control, just 1 relic or even more business like Batterskull
- has anypone though in adding 1 expedition to the side? is it nonsense?
EDIT:
long time ago i tried an iteration with Shoal and just didn't work, I imagine the same with FoN - my opinion is that this does not go with the strategy of the deck - dont want to invest 2 cards in 1 noncreature card and well I am not worried of early non creatures spells, but anyway, not even tested, so can't argue agains this.
opinions?- the curios thing is that I really dont know if the deck gets better with karn or not... but I love playing the card...
Disrupting Shoal would never work, here, because of the casting cost of other cards. If we had 12+ Blue cc1 spells, we would run the full set to compensate our ‘do nothing in the first turn of the game’. FON doesn’t require any setup, on the other hand, and it DOES stop cc0 and cc1 menaces (Faithless Looting, Aether Vial, opponent’s Maps, Thoughtseize when we need a specific card which is in our hand, Amulet, many other things). This deck, while being a Control, relies on card quality more than card quantity. For the same reason you can run Gemstone Caverns you can run FON (which operates differently but it’s much more flexible). And, yes, we are VERY worried about these cards!
Not having Dismember + Spatial in the board is simply wrong. Cut some stuff (Revoker and Batterskull are very weak according to my testing, Explosives too cause if you have Karn you have enough mana to cast either Ballista or O-Stone).
I had MUCH better results vs Humans since the printing of Blast Zone. ‘Uncounterable’, fetchable turn four Wrath is dope vs them.
Playing four Karn maindeck, I don’t like Slaver in the main too.
I really wish these forums were active again or that I knew where the active people went - mtgnexus just has a bunch of dead threads created by moderators and like no users. I found a discord for control with a virtually dead blue tron subchannel.
I just picked blue tron up again after a long hiatus and am sort of waiting for next week's B&R to really get into it. Right now I am super impressed by Karn - whether this is the right deck for him or not I don't know, but the ability to access a toolbox that includes a game ending combo is proven good in modern (chord, whir, etc) and being a big mana deck with bounce/counters/board wipes seems like a reasonable place to try. I've dropped mindslaver as karn/lattice is a lot better most of the time than slaver/ruins and way less vulnerable (gy hate or field of ruin). Having MD access to crucible/trinisphere has been nice and tutoring a chalice/explosives/balista definitely comes up. I stuck a sundering titan batterskull and wurmcoil in there too as high end/stabilizing effects for when lattice wont do it.
That being said I still have problems with how fast other decks are and how anemic our board control is. Walking balista with no tron isn't very good in the early turns, and ugin/o-stone cost a lot.
I also mull a lot to not having enough blue mana so I've really trimmed back the utility lands - its tron plus blast zone, field of ruin, and academy ruins for me - gemstone caverns is in for now but on the chopping block. that's 16 non-blue, then I run 8 islands and 2 talismans (and 4 maps). Not having blue on turn 2 can be murder because I can't condescend or remand their turn 3 play.
Chalice is up in the air on how many I want to run. I feel like its the only thing that can steal wins vs fast decks but its still often too slow. Vs monored prowess which is like 99% one mana spells I play it and am already facing down 2 prowess dudes, and then they just fire lava darts and fathless lootings into the chalice still dealing 2 per cast until I'm toast - post board they seem to run 4 shattering spree 4 abrade so the card loses all use. Vs other fast decks there are caverns and vials everywhere, or there isnt a high concentration at 1 cmc :S
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Thanks! I don't know what pierakor is but the other tron one has some active people and Trellon is there who has a bunch of 5-0s so that's perfect. FYI here's my list atm:
If I owned chalices, I still don't know If I'd play them. I'd have to cut force which has been extremely strong for me. I'm tempted to cut the 4th remand for the forth force. That being said, in the right metagame 4 of them could be devastating.
I still don't care for Karn, the Great Creator but I will still admit I could be wrong about him.
Fact or fiction has been nice so far. It could just be a win more but it's super fun to cast. A second Karn, Scion of Urza is probably correct in its place, but this is just another blue card for force.
Edit*
With Whurza and the 3-4color snow piles, it's probably correct to play Snow-Covered basics.
With the banning of the Gaak and faithless looting , and the unbanning of Stoneforge Mystic my list definitely changes. I have a gut feeling that everyone and their brother will try to jam sfm into everything. UWr Stoneblade and DNT being the most probably and playable. However decks like Burn, humans, Tron, Grixis Deaths Shadow, Jund and possibly UW or Jeskai control will likely come back to the forefront. If this happens decks like storm and neobrand will try to supress those and squeeze under their pressure.
Here is what I'll be trying. Force has been good for me so far and I don't see that changing. Perhaps I won't want the forth if I'm right about the rise of creature decks.
I see spell snare at being an all time favorite against the metagame. Perhaps enough so, to warrant maindeck copies.
I hope that some of the guys are here to give us some insight of their personal results, since it was TEAM Modern, those standings are not necessarily indicating how the U-Tron part of the team has performed.
Hey U Tron peeps! Throne of Eldraine hasn't brought us too many new things, but one that's flying under the radar is Wishclaw Talisman. In my testing so far it has been pretty powerful, and has some sweet synergy with Karn, the Great Creator. We've played lots of tutor effects in the past but this one is by far the most flexible. Obviously it requires being built around a little bit, (more talismans for black sources etc.), but I think it could be worth it, what do you guys think? Anything else from ELD that you are trying?
I don't think anything from Eldraine is worth playing but cards that are worth looking at if we increase the blue source count. want to a play a black card in our deck is a lot hard than you think. going up to 4 talisman and a UB land that isn't River of Tears to consistently even try to cast it seems like a stretch.
Witching Well is a solid turn 1 play and later against grindy decks with the potential later to draw cards.
Into the Story seems like a fine card as a 1 of in our deck if we really need the card advantage. I don't think its quite good enough though, its hard for us to turn on and other cards are much better.
Some people are trying Stonecoil serpent, I personally don't think this card is good enough for any deck in modern but people always like their variable cost cards. It seems a lot better in legacy with all the sol lands, and delver being a real card there.
Gingerbrute was apparently in someones deck that did well? don't ask me, they must be a monster of a player.
The problem I am running into is that I feel the need to protect Karn, rather than say getting Lattice (and have my opponents kill my Karn and play their own) I want instant action from my Karn but I just get some dinky dork to try to block.
You get whatever you need for the situation. If you can't protect Karn and its going to die, get something that will have an impact otherwise. That's why I have a mindslaver, wurmcoil, oblivion stone, ballista and stuff like that as 1of in the SB. To not be laser focused on the locked. I find the lock happens more often against slower decks like take turns and control decks. They have few or no creatures.
That's also why I have 2 ballista main and 1 side, I tried 3 main and sometimes I couldn't find it in time in some matchups.
Hi there guys Just wanted to post something here hopefully someones still around, Im picking up the deck as my single modern deck probably over the next year or so, going to be doing extensive testing since this deck does everything I want to do in modern right now, its control & Plays really nice artifacts. Ima make up a list over the next couple of days to start with, still researching the deck atm.
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Yeah KGC isn't really my cup of tea, though I could see him being valuable if built around.
I would love to try out Force of Negation, though I worry we don't play enough blue spells for it to be super effective, and upping the blue count means we would play less artifacts so Thirst for Knowledge becomes a lot worse. In the Pitch Blue Narset deck the pitch spells are valuable because the deck is roughly 70% blue cards, and that's including being able to cheat and use Mistvein Borderpost as a land that's also blue card, which we can't really do. Playing more Torrential Gearhulks could help, but there's not too many useful blue artifacts unfortunately.
That being said, a free counter is incredibly powerful, could be worthwhile playing a few in the sideboard as a trick against combo/control decks? I will have to test it to be sure.
Always having a card to pitch to thirst isn't always needed, normally the card selection is enough. The card advantage half of the card is certainly nice though. I'm currently playing 12 maindeck artifacts and have never felt bad about discarding 2 or having a Walking Ballista or Expedition Map to discard.
That's just the odds of having something to pitch to Force though, meaning you might be discarding your only other piece of interaction, or that card draw that you really wanted to find another answer.
It's possible that it's not really a problem, like I said more testing needs to be done with the card.
wanted to share my latest iteration of the deck from Karn appearence.
I discussed earlier with shock on the decklist, but what everybody seems to agree is in cutting high costs from main.
I started with 1 Minds 1 Wurmcoil 1 titan, now cut the titan, then cut 1 wurmcoil and added 1 relic main and then siwthced it again because hoggak no longer exists, so high costs are low now. (mintaining chalice, EE, snap, WB, full remands, etc.)
also 3 walking main is also an staple - love the card
I think I have moreless my main done - still need to figure out what to do if adding relic to main or not, but now hogak has gone i think wurmcoil will prevail.
well there it goes my v10.4 list:
4 [BD] Island (3)
4 [5E] Urza's Power Plant
4 [5E] Urza's Mine
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
1 [FUT] River of Tears
1 [FUT] Tolaria West
1 [SOK] Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 [XLN] Field of Ruin
1 [EXP] Tectonic Edge
1 [WAR] Blast Zone
1 [IA] Snow-Covered Island
1 [ISD] Snapcaster Mage
3 [AER] Walking Ballista
3 [GP] Repeal
4 [RAV] Remand
4 [DD2] Condescend
4 [MR] Thirst for Knowledge
4 [ZEN] Expedition Map
1 [CMD] Oblivion Stone
1 [MR] Mindslaver
1 [MMA] Chalice of the Void
1 [UGF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 [RTR] Cyclonic Rift
1 [MR] Talisman of Progress
1 [MR] Talisman of Dominance
1 [MMA] Engineered Explosives
4 [WAR] Karn, the Great Creator
SIDE:
2 [M13] Tormod's Crypt
1 [MR] Chalice of the Void
1 [SOM] Mindslaver
1 [PRE] Wurmcoil Engine
1 [KLI] Crucible of Worlds
1 [DS] Mycosynth Lattice
1 [UBT] Engineered Explosives
2 [MMA] Relic of Progenitus
1 [GPX] Batterskull
1 [CM2] Oblivion Stone
1 [M15] Phyrexian Revoker
1 [V09] Trinisphere
there are lots of explnations and options as from Karan appearance lot has been done, I'll share some:
- in the side at first I had silent arbiter - dismissed - does nothing at least for me.
- trini was not in the side - but it is key agains red phenix! thnaks Shok.
- had 1 cage / 1 relic - but cage does not avoid dredge...
- batterskull is great for mana curve.
- thinking in adding Spine , but for the moment 4 bouncers has been fine to handle stony effects.
- still didn't lost to humans and neither my playmate - blast zone is a house.
- still undecided to try bridge - sure shok disagrees in here, but dont know, any other opinion on this? the theory says that bridge is not good in our strategy...
- tried also 1 caverns and added a 3rd talisman but preferred to take it out and add a snow island - not sure on this...
- added also 4th remand
- just remember the last day i faced a control deck with 2 surgicals main - still hogak era - and well he was able to surgical - my Towers, my ballistas, my tectonic edge and also my karns. and I won anyway, Ihad just BZone /OStone / crucible ARuins engine and thats it, really love the deck...
- I really would like to have more dismembers/like in side, but not really needed, I just sometimes add the 4th ballista main or EE or Chalice, and vs control, just 1 relic or even more business like Batterskull
- has anypone though in adding 1 expedition to the side? is it nonsense?
EDIT:
long time ago i tried an iteration with Shoal and just didn't work, I imagine the same with FoN - my opinion is that this does not go with the strategy of the deck - dont want to invest 2 cards in 1 noncreature card and well I am not worried of early non creatures spells, but anyway, not even tested, so can't argue agains this.
opinions?- the curios thing is that I really dont know if the deck gets better with karn or not... but I love playing the card...
Not having Dismember + Spatial in the board is simply wrong. Cut some stuff (Revoker and Batterskull are very weak according to my testing, Explosives too cause if you have Karn you have enough mana to cast either Ballista or O-Stone).
I had MUCH better results vs Humans since the printing of Blast Zone. ‘Uncounterable’, fetchable turn four Wrath is dope vs them.
Playing four Karn maindeck, I don’t like Slaver in the main too.
I always like four Remands, in any meta.
I just picked blue tron up again after a long hiatus and am sort of waiting for next week's B&R to really get into it. Right now I am super impressed by Karn - whether this is the right deck for him or not I don't know, but the ability to access a toolbox that includes a game ending combo is proven good in modern (chord, whir, etc) and being a big mana deck with bounce/counters/board wipes seems like a reasonable place to try. I've dropped mindslaver as karn/lattice is a lot better most of the time than slaver/ruins and way less vulnerable (gy hate or field of ruin). Having MD access to crucible/trinisphere has been nice and tutoring a chalice/explosives/balista definitely comes up. I stuck a sundering titan batterskull and wurmcoil in there too as high end/stabilizing effects for when lattice wont do it.
That being said I still have problems with how fast other decks are and how anemic our board control is. Walking balista with no tron isn't very good in the early turns, and ugin/o-stone cost a lot.
I also mull a lot to not having enough blue mana so I've really trimmed back the utility lands - its tron plus blast zone, field of ruin, and academy ruins for me - gemstone caverns is in for now but on the chopping block. that's 16 non-blue, then I run 8 islands and 2 talismans (and 4 maps). Not having blue on turn 2 can be murder because I can't condescend or remand their turn 3 play.
Chalice is up in the air on how many I want to run. I feel like its the only thing that can steal wins vs fast decks but its still often too slow. Vs monored prowess which is like 99% one mana spells I play it and am already facing down 2 prowess dudes, and then they just fire lava darts and fathless lootings into the chalice still dealing 2 per cast until I'm toast - post board they seem to run 4 shattering spree 4 abrade so the card loses all use. Vs other fast decks there are caverns and vials everywhere, or there isnt a high concentration at 1 cmc :S
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
1 Academy Ruins
1 Blast Zone
1 Field of Ruin
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Tolaria West
7 Island
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
Spells
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Condescend
1 Cyclonic Rift
4 Expedition Map
4 Remand
2 Repeal
2 Talisman of Dominance
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Karn, the Great Creator
3 Walking Ballista
2 Nimble Obstructionist
1 Mindslaver
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Echoing Truth
1 Mycosynth Lattice
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Trinisphere
1 Walking Ballista
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Sundering Titan
3 Dismember
1 Batterskull
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
6 Island
2 River of Tears
1 Field of Ruin
1 Blast Zone
1 Tolaria West
1 Academy Ruins
Creatures (7)
3 Walking Ballista
1 Snapcaster Mage
3 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Expedition Map
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Mindslaver
Spells(21)
4 Condescend
3 Repeal
1 Cyclonic Rift
4 Remand
1 Echoing Truth
3 Force of Negation
4 Thirst For Knowledge
1 Fact or Fiction
PlanesWalkers (2)
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Ugin, The Spirit Dragon
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Spatial Contortion
2 Dismember
3 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Leyline of the Void
If I owned chalices, I still don't know If I'd play them. I'd have to cut force which has been extremely strong for me. I'm tempted to cut the 4th remand for the forth force. That being said, in the right metagame 4 of them could be devastating.
I still don't care for Karn, the Great Creator but I will still admit I could be wrong about him.
Fact or fiction has been nice so far. It could just be a win more but it's super fun to cast. A second Karn, Scion of Urza is probably correct in its place, but this is just another blue card for force.
Edit*
With Whurza and the 3-4color snow piles, it's probably correct to play Snow-Covered basics.
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
6 Island
2 River of Tears
1 Field of Ruin
1 Blast Zone
1 Tolaria West
1 Academy Ruins
Creatures (8)
3 Walking Ballista
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Expedition Map
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Mindslaver
Spells(20)
4 Condescend
3 Repeal
1 Cyclonic Rift
3 Remand
1 Echoing Truth
4 Force of Negation
4 Thirst For Knowledge
PlanesWalkers (2)
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Ugin, The Spirit Dragon
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Tormod's Crypt
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Spell Snare
4 Spatial Contortion
2 Dismember
1 Crucible of Worlds
Here is what I'll be trying. Force has been good for me so far and I don't see that changing. Perhaps I won't want the forth if I'm right about the rise of creature decks.
I see spell snare at being an all time favorite against the metagame. Perhaps enough so, to warrant maindeck copies.
Jan Pruser finished in 20th
https://my.cfbevents.com/deck/view/62d91380-d88e-4f98-9779-f0e514f1524d
Gräfensteiner, Tobias in 46th
https://my.cfbevents.com/deck/view/a0ce3be8-351d-4f62-a38b-cb13055994b6
Held, Fabian in 68th
https://my.cfbevents.com/deck/view/b2e0e01c-9069-4080-9f92-9fb5029402b2
All decks
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTjTNcOtA00mNRkRwW1zllSj8sXA5E_gk3_cp9jC6RgN1fIUBtQqm_Ssl-wGRoyO5R3BGH3l0XC04D_/pubhtml?gid=0&single=true
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
I´ve played sides at GP Ghent today and went 7-3-2 (one ID). Please find my list attached.
2-0 Bant Spirits
2-0 Storm
2-1 Phoenix
2-1 Burn
2-1 Burn
1-1 Urza Whirl
1-2 Burn
2-1 UW SFM
0-2 Burn
1-1-1 Dredge (ID)
1-2 Faeries
2-0 4c Good Stuff
Greetings
Max
UTron
I hope that some of the guys are here to give us some insight of their personal results, since it was TEAM Modern, those standings are not necessarily indicating how the U-Tron part of the team has performed.
UTron
I like the list Maxwell.
Do you have any details about some of the matchups.. particularly the important meta matchups Whizra and Burn.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Witching Well is a solid turn 1 play and later against grindy decks with the potential later to draw cards.
Into the Story seems like a fine card as a 1 of in our deck if we really need the card advantage. I don't think its quite good enough though, its hard for us to turn on and other cards are much better.
Some people are trying Stonecoil serpent, I personally don't think this card is good enough for any deck in modern but people always like their variable cost cards. It seems a lot better in legacy with all the sol lands, and delver being a real card there.
Gingerbrute was apparently in someones deck that did well? don't ask me, they must be a monster of a player.
What do you get?
The problem I am running into is that I feel the need to protect Karn, rather than say getting Lattice (and have my opponents kill my Karn and play their own) I want instant action from my Karn but I just get some dinky dork to try to block.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
That's also why I have 2 ballista main and 1 side, I tried 3 main and sometimes I couldn't find it in time in some matchups.