@Dlite: Booby Trap? I thought of it, but on this particular deck I rarely reach 6 lands since we only need 3 to get everything rolling, after that I try to not draw lands by sending them to the grave with the combo. Also in your deck you had creatures to lower their life to less than 10 for the trap to be an insta-win, but this particular deck rarely drops the opponent to less than 10 unless they are locked and you can attack with Trinket.
Yes if you set up the lock you almost always win.
Last night I locked a mill blue deck (first test against a blue mill deck), it was hilarious. Had the lock up and running really early so I put him on the land flood lock and he only milled me with his opening hand cards. I was down to like 18 cards since he got to play the mill 13 card, he was at 41, I could have milled him with 4-5 pieces on the field but I got Tezz out of the SB with the wish for the final blow.
I still undecided on pyrite spellbomb vs executionner's capsule. I like that you can use and recur the spellbomb for 1 less mana with academy ruins and you might even kill the opponent with that! (eggs power!)
What about Aether Spellbomb? Slowing their creatures yet another turn is sure annoying.
With the glimmervoids giving me any color, Firespout is giving me good results as a replacement for porphyry nodes. I thought about Rolling Temblor for the flashback, but rolling doesn't get to flyers.
PIC1: Another U mill deck, it seems mill has no chance if you set up shop. Sure they'll get you low, but they'll run out of gas and you can outmill them, though tezz wins before that. However, can anyone guess how I lost this game? yes i lost, believe it. For some reason (stoned) I missread Archive Trap, thought I had to search before he could use it and since I was going to win next turn with tezz and I wasn't going to search for anything I LET HIM DRAW IT!!! I was at 10 on my library (the trap is on his exile zone), so gg. I actually laughed so hard for losing so stupidly that I woke up my gf hahaha...
PIC2: He won game 1 with the sword equipped, couldn't oust. Game 2, Engenieered explosives is godly vs weenies. Took out 2 creatures and a Honor of the Pure in one shot, then recured it to take out a SoWaP equipped on Knight Exemplar, then recured it again to keep it just in case. He had won life, so I made a mox into a 5/5 to get him down before the ultimate. Sweet. Notice Firespout in my hand, had it since opening hand and never used it, explosives was enough. he got disconected for G3.
EDIT: Oh yeah, on pic2, notice Ligthing Helix, I mained that : )
Lapse of certainty. I played it in White weenie but too slow here probably. I can see what you mean on signets...either the decks needs to up its curve and mana or stay slim on mana with less answers but faster drops and a better interaction with bridge. I am unsure which direction to take it yet.
Yes, very good: booby trap. The thing is is that the game is guaranteed to go long...definitely long enough to get 6 mana.
Sure without creatures it isn't an insta-kill, but it is a 2 turn win with academy ruins and buried ruin. It gets around actually having to mill them out which is tedious and can backfire to a bunch of good cards in a row. I feel like it adds some inevitability to the deck, which is important. Otherwise, Dispatch, Tezzeret, agent of bolas and ensnaring bridge have been all-stars.
So I've tested against a few decks so far. I've won a few games against various mid-range decks, but like I was afraid, Affinity just ROLFstomped the deck. Jund was a bit closer, but it was still a blowout. Porphorny nodes is pretty techy (especially with bridge or Tezz) but I feel like a solid sweeper would probably be helpful. Getting to 4 for wrath is skecthy but it would be best. Otherwise maybe firesprout or pyroclasm as mentioned.
As far as the lock goes, do you guys mull until you get it? It seems like best case scenario, T2...which still means they get to drop a decent amount of threats and then still you can only mill 1 until you get more pieces. It just seems like while the lock is cheap it is only a very soft lock until you can get 3-4x codex out. If I don't draw it, that means it will be t4 until I can get a mage to complete the lock...which by then the game is usually lost. I don't know if this deck can be competitive enough, but it does something unique and you guys responded to my questions so I'll plug away for a bit on it.
Maybe targeted discard is the answer? How has that been working out?
I feel like playing a 5 color deck with a wishboard is probably the wrong way to go with the deck considering how light everyone is on their manabase. Glimmervoid is pretty sick, but it is only 4-of. I haven't tested it though. At least play 2x Reflecting pool then.
Anyway, here is my first pass at a list. It needs to be tuned. I am definitely interested in faithless looting and maybe the tutor. O-ring is for blowout pieces, such as dampening matrix and leyline of sanctity or resolved planeswalkers. Slow but probably necessary
Gentlemen...after some more testing and tweaking, I've realized the deck would be best if it went into a more Tezzeret control shell.
This is the brew I've come up with. It's testing quite nicely actually. Tezzeret tutors just as easily for the lock piece if you don't get it early, an also is the perfect win-con, doming people or making 5/5 flying infect creatures. He adds a clock, which is important because sometimes honestly the softlock just isn't enough when they can cantrip and shuffle their way out of it.
Counters were incorrect since you wanted to be playing permanents constantly, so they were cut.
4 color was too much, and I realized that pyroclasm was just better than nodes in the cases we want it. Red went in and with it came galvanic blast over dispatch and ratchet bomb for o ring.
The targeted discard and cheap removal shored up the early game...and the new package of 2x Trinket, 2x Looting, 3x thoughtcast 2x Thirst and 4x Tezz assures you that you will be getting your lock up in a timely manner with multiple codex effects.
The late game still wins via tezz or recurring booby traps.
Oh, and Jester's Cap is some nifty tech against combo and tron. Good luck winning without eldrazi, second sunrise, splinter twin, pyromancer's ascension, etc etc in your deck. Takes me back to 1998.
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Standard
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"Out of the crooked timber of humanity, nothing straight was ever made" - Immanuel Kant
Turning your Inkmoth Nexus into a 5/5 Flying Infect beatstick sounds really good. I can get behind believing that it will stay a 5/5, but do you have confirmation that it will retain flying and infect at the end of turn, and if not, would its ability cause it to return to being a 1/1 creature due to timestamping (I'm terrible with layers).
Gentlemen...after some more testing and tweaking, I've realized the deck would be best if it went into a more Tezzeret control shell.
This is the brew I've come up with. It's testing quite nicely actually. Tezzeret tutors just as easily for the lock piece if you don't get it early, an also is the perfect win-con, doming people or making 5/5 flying infect creatures. He adds a clock, which is important because sometimes honestly the softlock just isn't enough when they can cantrip and shuffle their way out of it.
Counters were incorrect since you wanted to be playing permanents constantly, so they were cut.
4 color was too much, and I realized that pyroclasm was just better than nodes in the cases we want it. Red went in and with it came galvanic blast over dispatch and ratchet bomb for o ring.
So, you get Grixis.
The targeted discard and cheap removal shored up the early game...and the new package of 2x Trinket, 2x Looting, 3x thoughtcast 2x Thirst and 4x Tezz assures you that you will be getting your lock up in a timely manner with multiple codex effects.
The late game still wins via tezz or recurring booby traps.
Oh, and Jester's Cap is some nifty tech against combo and tron. Good luck winning without eldrazi, second sunrise, splinter twin, pyromancer's ascension, etc etc in your deck. Takes me back to 1998.
They shouldn't be able to. If you're about letting them draw a fetchland, just keep one piece untapped to use when they search. And take out any cantrip that says "draw two or more cards".
Seems like if you are running g blasts, traps, then add pyrite sb to keep the dudes off the board and to finish. Also go with the old nexus rather than new nexus. New one is only good with tezz. Old one makes it so you don't split the damage types.
Lapse of certainty. I played it in White weenie but too slow here probably. I can see what you mean on signets...either the decks needs to up its curve and mana or stay slim on mana with less answers but faster drops and a better interaction with bridge. I am unsure which direction to take it yet.
Yes, very good: booby trap. The thing is is that the game is guaranteed to go long...definitely long enough to get 6 mana.
Sure without creatures it isn't an insta-kill, but it is a 2 turn win with academy ruins and buried ruin. It gets around actually having to mill them out which is tedious and can backfire to a bunch of good cards in a row. I feel like it adds some inevitability to the deck, which is important. Otherwise, Dispatch, Tezzeret, agent of bolas and ensnaring bridge have been all-stars.
So I've tested against a few decks so far. I've won a few games against various mid-range decks, but like I was afraid, Affinity just ROLFstomped the deck. Jund was a bit closer, but it was still a blowout. Porphorny nodes is pretty techy (especially with bridge or Tezz) but I feel like a solid sweeper would probably be helpful. Getting to 4 for wrath is skecthy but it would be best. Otherwise maybe firesprout or pyroclasm as mentioned.
As far as the lock goes, do you guys mull until you get it? It seems like best case scenario, T2...which still means they get to drop a decent amount of threats and then still you can only mill 1 until you get more pieces. It just seems like while the lock is cheap it is only a very soft lock until you can get 3-4x codex out. If I don't draw it, that means it will be t4 until I can get a mage to complete the lock...which by then the game is usually lost. I don't know if this deck can be competitive enough, but it does something unique and you guys responded to my questions so I'll plug away for a bit on it.
Maybe targeted discard is the answer? How has that been working out?
I feel like playing a 5 color deck with a wishboard is probably the wrong way to go with the deck considering how light everyone is on their manabase. Glimmervoid is pretty sick, but it is only 4-of. I haven't tested it though. At least play 2x Reflecting pool then.
Anyway, here is my first pass at a list. It needs to be tuned. I am definitely interested in faithless looting and maybe the tutor. O-ring is for blowout pieces, such as dampening matrix and leyline of sanctity or resolved planeswalkers. Slow but probably necessary
Lapse of Certainty isn't slow, technically, because you have to play the combo first, so you would want counters for the post-lock to stop what they got left in hand. The problem is drawing the lapse post-lock, if you draw it pre-lock it hurts your tempo and you might be dead before you can counter anything.
On Booby Trap, the deck is guaranteed to go long, but on the short term (first 4 turns) having a booby in hand is bad, well its not really bad, but in magic it is... However, you have a good point with the 2 turn clock by recurring it back. Its just that Tezz would be better in ever aspect as a Wincon and costs 2 less.
On the Affinity match, Porphyry Nodes works on that match, but you need to back it up with Path/Dispatch. You just take out any Signal Pest, then just Path/Dispatch the attacker with Cranial Plating. However, unless they got a Ravager out to save one creature, Firespout takes out every affinity creature in one sweep, for 3, so I gave up on the nodes.
On the lock, no I don't start milling until I get the Lantern out or I use a M.Bauble, because there is no point to it, once you lock you can mill them anyways so you don't need to blind mill from turn 1-2. The other point is Karma, lol, the one time I decided to blind mill I tapped both Codex and Bell, Bell made me mill. Want to guess what I milled? A Lantern... I just don't do it.
IMO, never mill them before EOT unless they are trying to draw something specific. That way you have most if not all the combo pieces untapped at their end of turn so you can use the pieces to set up a land on their top and if one or more combo pieces are still untapped after that you can mill yourself to dig through the deck. If you got enough combo pieces you can use one or two on your upkeep before you draw to further dig into your deck. With the combo out just sit back and respond to their moves to prevent drawing of threats, then dig for answers to whatever they got left ASAP. Thats where Glittering Wish comes in handy, at least for me. Early wished can fetch an answer or can get dropped through Fithless Looting, then once I start digging through the deck I can find another wish so I can fetch an answer to whatever and if they don't have more threats then I just fetch Tezz to finish the game.
Lantern+Codex lets you start controlling their draws but some things slip if they got threats in a row, with a second piece you have a soft-lock that you can start using to dig through your deck, a 3rd piece almost guarantees a victory.
Glimmervoid is only 4, but then I also got 4 Mox Opal, and 1-off Shocklands to fetch. I don't seem to have mana issues, but Blood Moon is starting to become annoying post-board which is why I might try running some O-rings that can also answer to stoney Silence and such. I'm also starting to see how Scapeshift is a problem, which is why I reduced my wishboard to add 4 Leylines.
Quote from dlite »
Gentlemen...after some more testing and tweaking, I've realized the deck would be best if it went into a more Tezzeret control shell.
This is the brew I've come up with. It's testing quite nicely actually. Tezzeret tutors just as easily for the lock piece if you don't get it early, an also is the perfect win-con, doming people or making 5/5 flying infect creatures. He adds a clock, which is important because sometimes honestly the softlock just isn't enough when they can cantrip and shuffle their way out of it.
Counters were incorrect since you wanted to be playing permanents constantly, so they were cut.
4 color was too much, and I realized that pyroclasm was just better than nodes in the cases we want it. Red went in and with it came galvanic blast over dispatch and ratchet bomb for o ring.
So, you get Grixis.
The targeted discard and cheap removal shored up the early game...and the new package of 2x Trinket, 2x Looting, 3x thoughtcast 2x Thirst and 4x Tezz assures you that you will be getting your lock up in a timely manner with multiple codex effects.
The late game still wins via tezz or recurring booby traps.
Oh, and Jester's Cap is some nifty tech against combo and tron. Good luck winning without eldrazi, second sunrise, splinter twin, pyromancer's ascension, etc etc in your deck. Takes me back to 1998.
Indeed, UB tezz seems to be the best planewalker for the build, but 4x? I'm not sure about that, I put mine on the SB for the wish because I hated drawing Tezz opening hand or early turns. I just want him to finish a locked game. But yes he WILL tighten the lock by fetching one piece a turn if you get him to stick.
The last counter I tried was Condescend for the scry, never did anything special, the combo and counters just fight each other for mana.
Pyroclasm and Firespout are too good since our only creature serves its purpose upon entrance. I'm trying both at 2 ea, seems pretty solid.
Jester's Cap just seems like it would be too little too late, has it worked?
Im also running 2 explosives, its just too useful, I'll post a list in the next few days since I'm constantly changing numbers right now.
Also, I think you are trying to rush a win with the traps, 4 Tezz/G.Blasts and 4 Inkmoth Nexus, et cetera. There is really no need to rush, if you lock you win, so personally I concentrate on guaranteeing a lock. The interaction between Nexus and Tezz is interesting, but how many times have you won through that? How many times has inkmoth screwed you from the correct mana colors?
And Ratchet Bomb seems good, but why that over EE? I have no trouble setting it up to 4 counters with the shocklands, opals and glimmervoids. Ratchet on the other hand needs a turn per counter. Am i missing something?
Quote from megatog201 »
Seems like if you are running g blasts, traps, then add pyrite sb to keep the dudes off the board and to finish. Also go with the old nexus rather than new nexus. New one is only good with tezz. Old one makes it so you don't split the damage types.
I wouldn't run either, but if I were I'd keep the Inkmoth, against life gain decks, inkmoth is just better. But like I said, theres really no reason to even attack pre-lock and post-lock either works.
Has anybody considered scrib nibblers? it's cheap and repeatable plus permanetly deals with what you don't want to see.
a blue black or esper build might be pretty cool.
You have to take combat damage for it to work and im not sure that you want to be doing this unless you are playing some form of life gain, but i could be wrong.
Vengeful pharaoh? That might actually be some pretty sick tech. Get it in your yard, kills a creature for free...then you mill it back into your yard from the top. That seems pretty damn techy to me personally. Every single creature of theirs only gets one hit before they are done. Interesting. You would have to play a discard outlet to get it there, because hardcasting that thing ain't happening.
Old nex vs new nex....Hard to say. I can see your point on splitting damage..(bad)...but a 5/5 flying infect is a 2-turn kill (good). Galv blasts are really for spot removal only....very rarely will they get into the red zone enough to make it worthwhile to dome them.
4x Tezz because I fill like I need to drop it t4 every game. Cutting to 3 might be ok...the thing is is that he is not just a win-con, but also does everything else we want as well in terms of tutoring and card advantage. Huge.
Yeah counters don't seem right even if this makes combo a bit scary.
R bomb was my solution for nasty permanents that block our combo. I suppose you could up the EE count to accommodate. Leyline is at 4cc though...dicey.
My color requirements are much much lighter so Inkmoth has always been fine. I don't recommend it with glittering wish by any means.
Booby trap just adds another way to win that can be recursive...maybe 1x is correct though. Only good late game. It shines against control decks especially.
As for the artifact count, whiffing on Tezz's first ability sucks so you definitely need a bunch. That list plays a lot (18) but sometimes it still happens. Metalcraft usually hits by t5 or t6 consistently, in which case Thoughtcast becomes awesome.
I've taken a break from this deck to work on LoamPox for awhile, but I'll get back to this one for sure and test some more.
I'm at work right now, but I will post both my lists (wish & wishless) later tonight, and by the way, with Pyroclasm & Firespouts I think I got Stoic Rebuttal to stick on the deck. I'm using the early turns to set up combo and sweep, then post-midgame I counter what they got left.
However, I wanted to discuss something I have been trying to fit in for the past 2 days.
-Instant discard
-At the same cost of our combo pieces
-Recurrable
-Final locking piece
You want to get this to the graveyard ASAP while you put out your combo, via Faithless Looting or by playing it. Then as soon as you have 4 mana up and Academy Ruins you can recurr this thing every turn to instant discard on your opponent's draw step. This effectively lessens the burden on the combo since from that point forward you only need to shave off their instants.
Essentially you'd be time walking endlessly for 5 mana.
On their draw step > Activate Scroll > Recurr with Academy > Untap on your upkeep > Draw Scroll > Play Scroll > wait for their draw step > Rinse &...
I've been trying it from 4x to 1x trying to find the correct number, but harder than that is trying to find out what to take out.
I wouldn't think so, but one thing that this deck has trouble with is opening hands, so discard artifacts way be the way to go, but the deck is so full already. The real problem here is trying to find the right card to get rid of maindeck I think.
Use it to make them discard (maybe even the scapeshift they were holding unto), then once its recursion is active keep them from getting more lands.
Same Vs Tron. You can keep them from getting their lands up. Be aware, this can cause a tie vs Tron (Happened already). If you lock them out of their lands it will all come down to them discarding everything until they discard emrakul, then it starts again endlessly since neither player will get milled, BUT, you can tezz for the win once all is locked down.
Maybe a 1-off and 3 on SB for specific decks? I'm not sure, its just something I thought up, endless time walks for 5 mana sounded sweet.
EDIT: The stoic rebuttal also helps vs scapeshift now that i mained it. 4 Leyline and 2 more stoic out of SB will probably cripple scapeshift, storm, eggs, mill, et cetera. So probably discard is not even needed. Don't know, I'll test it out a bit just to give it a chance.
Yes if you set up the lock you almost always win.
Last night I locked a mill blue deck (first test against a blue mill deck), it was hilarious. Had the lock up and running really early so I put him on the land flood lock and he only milled me with his opening hand cards. I was down to like 18 cards since he got to play the mill 13 card, he was at 41, I could have milled him with 4-5 pieces on the field but I got Tezz out of the SB with the wish for the final blow.
@LittleLizard: Que viva la vela puerca! : )
"When you get your opponent down to 0 sanity, you win the game!"
What about Aether Spellbomb? Slowing their creatures yet another turn is sure annoying.
EDIT: Sorry for double posting!
EDIT 2: @zerodown Seeeee. Adivinaste!
BRG Living End
UGWRB Titan Bloom (40% complete)
Faithless Looting is just too good for this deck. It just is.
I also reduced the wishboard answers to 7 so I could add 2 pithing needle, 2 nihil spellbombs and 4 leyline of Sanctity
I'll post the list later, gtg now.
PIC1: Another U mill deck, it seems mill has no chance if you set up shop. Sure they'll get you low, but they'll run out of gas and you can outmill them, though tezz wins before that. However, can anyone guess how I lost this game? yes i lost, believe it. For some reason (stoned) I missread Archive Trap, thought I had to search before he could use it and since I was going to win next turn with tezz and I wasn't going to search for anything I LET HIM DRAW IT!!! I was at 10 on my library (the trap is on his exile zone), so gg. I actually laughed so hard for losing so stupidly that I woke up my gf hahaha...
PIC2: He won game 1 with the sword equipped, couldn't oust. Game 2, Engenieered explosives is godly vs weenies. Took out 2 creatures and a Honor of the Pure in one shot, then recured it to take out a SoWaP equipped on Knight Exemplar, then recured it again to keep it just in case. He had won life, so I made a mox into a 5/5 to get him down before the ultimate. Sweet. Notice Firespout in my hand, had it since opening hand and never used it, explosives was enough. he got disconected for G3.
EDIT: Oh yeah, on pic2, notice Ligthing Helix, I mained that : )
"When you get your opponent down to 0 sanity, you win the game!"
Yes, very good: booby trap. The thing is is that the game is guaranteed to go long...definitely long enough to get 6 mana.
Sure without creatures it isn't an insta-kill, but it is a 2 turn win with academy ruins and buried ruin. It gets around actually having to mill them out which is tedious and can backfire to a bunch of good cards in a row. I feel like it adds some inevitability to the deck, which is important. Otherwise, Dispatch, Tezzeret, agent of bolas and ensnaring bridge have been all-stars.
So I've tested against a few decks so far. I've won a few games against various mid-range decks, but like I was afraid, Affinity just ROLFstomped the deck. Jund was a bit closer, but it was still a blowout. Porphorny nodes is pretty techy (especially with bridge or Tezz) but I feel like a solid sweeper would probably be helpful. Getting to 4 for wrath is skecthy but it would be best. Otherwise maybe firesprout or pyroclasm as mentioned.
As far as the lock goes, do you guys mull until you get it? It seems like best case scenario, T2...which still means they get to drop a decent amount of threats and then still you can only mill 1 until you get more pieces. It just seems like while the lock is cheap it is only a very soft lock until you can get 3-4x codex out. If I don't draw it, that means it will be t4 until I can get a mage to complete the lock...which by then the game is usually lost. I don't know if this deck can be competitive enough, but it does something unique and you guys responded to my questions so I'll plug away for a bit on it.
Maybe targeted discard is the answer? How has that been working out?
I feel like playing a 5 color deck with a wishboard is probably the wrong way to go with the deck considering how light everyone is on their manabase. Glimmervoid is pretty sick, but it is only 4-of. I haven't tested it though. At least play 2x Reflecting pool then.
Anyway, here is my first pass at a list. It needs to be tuned. I am definitely interested in faithless looting and maybe the tutor. O-ring is for blowout pieces, such as dampening matrix and leyline of sanctity or resolved planeswalkers. Slow but probably necessary
4x Glimmervoid
4x Inkmoth Nexus
2x Arcane Sanctum
2x Seachrome Coast
2x Darkslick Shores
1x Academy Ruins
1x Buried Ruin
1x Island
1x Darksteel Citadel
2x Mox Opal
4x Trinket Mage
1x Treasure mage
4x Codex Shredder
2x GhoulCaller's Bell
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Chalice of the Void
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Pithing Needle
4x Dispatch
3x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Stoic Rebuttal
3x Thoughtcast
3x Porphyry Nodes
2x Oblivion Ring
2x Booby Trap
4x Spreading Seas
2x Duress
2x Pulse of the Fields
2x Disenchant
1x Steel Wall
1x Elixer of Immortality
1x Brittle Effigy
1x Relic if Progenitus
1x Jester's Cap
Standard
Blows
Modern
BWUTeachingsBWU
GUGU TempoGU
WLifeW
RWValakut ControlRW
UBModern MillUB
Legacy
UMUCU
BPoxB
BWRTokensBWR
Pauper
UBGRW Domain UBGRW
Vintage
RVise-Burn!R
"Out of the crooked timber of humanity, nothing straight was ever made" - Immanuel Kant
This is the brew I've come up with. It's testing quite nicely actually. Tezzeret tutors just as easily for the lock piece if you don't get it early, an also is the perfect win-con, doming people or making 5/5 flying infect creatures. He adds a clock, which is important because sometimes honestly the softlock just isn't enough when they can cantrip and shuffle their way out of it.
Counters were incorrect since you wanted to be playing permanents constantly, so they were cut.
4 color was too much, and I realized that pyroclasm was just better than nodes in the cases we want it. Red went in and with it came galvanic blast over dispatch and ratchet bomb for o ring.
So, you get Grixis.
4x Glimmervoid
4x Inkmoth Nexus
4x Crumbling Necropolis
2x Darkslick Shores
1x Blackcleave Cliffs
1x Academy Ruins
1x Buried Ruin
1x Island
2x Mox Opal
1x Darksteel Inget
4x Latern of Insight
4x Codex Shredder
2x GhoulCaller's Bell
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Pithing Needle
4x Galvanic Blast
3x Thoughtcast
3x Pyroclasm
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Thirst for Knowledge
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Faithless looting
1x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Booby Trap
4x Spreading Seas
3x Duress
3x Spellskite
3x Leyline of the Void
2x Jester's Cap
The targeted discard and cheap removal shored up the early game...and the new package of 2x Trinket, 2x Looting, 3x thoughtcast 2x Thirst and 4x Tezz assures you that you will be getting your lock up in a timely manner with multiple codex effects.
The late game still wins via tezz or recurring booby traps.
Oh, and Jester's Cap is some nifty tech against combo and tron. Good luck winning without eldrazi, second sunrise, splinter twin, pyromancer's ascension, etc etc in your deck. Takes me back to 1998.
Standard
Blows
Modern
BWUTeachingsBWU
GUGU TempoGU
WLifeW
RWValakut ControlRW
UBModern MillUB
Legacy
UMUCU
BPoxB
BWRTokensBWR
Pauper
UBGRW Domain UBGRW
Vintage
RVise-Burn!R
"Out of the crooked timber of humanity, nothing straight was ever made" - Immanuel Kant
They shouldn't be able to. If you're about letting them draw a fetchland, just keep one piece untapped to use when they search. And take out any cantrip that says "draw two or more cards".
BRG Living End
UGWRB Titan Bloom (40% complete)
Lapse of Certainty isn't slow, technically, because you have to play the combo first, so you would want counters for the post-lock to stop what they got left in hand. The problem is drawing the lapse post-lock, if you draw it pre-lock it hurts your tempo and you might be dead before you can counter anything.
On Booby Trap, the deck is guaranteed to go long, but on the short term (first 4 turns) having a booby in hand is bad, well its not really bad, but in magic it is... However, you have a good point with the 2 turn clock by recurring it back. Its just that Tezz would be better in ever aspect as a Wincon and costs 2 less.
On the Affinity match, Porphyry Nodes works on that match, but you need to back it up with Path/Dispatch. You just take out any Signal Pest, then just Path/Dispatch the attacker with Cranial Plating. However, unless they got a Ravager out to save one creature, Firespout takes out every affinity creature in one sweep, for 3, so I gave up on the nodes.
On the lock, no I don't start milling until I get the Lantern out or I use a M.Bauble, because there is no point to it, once you lock you can mill them anyways so you don't need to blind mill from turn 1-2. The other point is Karma, lol, the one time I decided to blind mill I tapped both Codex and Bell, Bell made me mill. Want to guess what I milled? A Lantern... I just don't do it.
IMO, never mill them before EOT unless they are trying to draw something specific. That way you have most if not all the combo pieces untapped at their end of turn so you can use the pieces to set up a land on their top and if one or more combo pieces are still untapped after that you can mill yourself to dig through the deck. If you got enough combo pieces you can use one or two on your upkeep before you draw to further dig into your deck. With the combo out just sit back and respond to their moves to prevent drawing of threats, then dig for answers to whatever they got left ASAP. Thats where Glittering Wish comes in handy, at least for me. Early wished can fetch an answer or can get dropped through Fithless Looting, then once I start digging through the deck I can find another wish so I can fetch an answer to whatever and if they don't have more threats then I just fetch Tezz to finish the game.
Lantern+Codex lets you start controlling their draws but some things slip if they got threats in a row, with a second piece you have a soft-lock that you can start using to dig through your deck, a 3rd piece almost guarantees a victory.
Glimmervoid is only 4, but then I also got 4 Mox Opal, and 1-off Shocklands to fetch. I don't seem to have mana issues, but Blood Moon is starting to become annoying post-board which is why I might try running some O-rings that can also answer to stoney Silence and such. I'm also starting to see how Scapeshift is a problem, which is why I reduced my wishboard to add 4 Leylines.
Indeed, UB tezz seems to be the best planewalker for the build, but 4x? I'm not sure about that, I put mine on the SB for the wish because I hated drawing Tezz opening hand or early turns. I just want him to finish a locked game. But yes he WILL tighten the lock by fetching one piece a turn if you get him to stick.
The last counter I tried was Condescend for the scry, never did anything special, the combo and counters just fight each other for mana.
Pyroclasm and Firespout are too good since our only creature serves its purpose upon entrance. I'm trying both at 2 ea, seems pretty solid.
Jester's Cap just seems like it would be too little too late, has it worked?
Im also running 2 explosives, its just too useful, I'll post a list in the next few days since I'm constantly changing numbers right now.
Also, I think you are trying to rush a win with the traps, 4 Tezz/G.Blasts and 4 Inkmoth Nexus, et cetera. There is really no need to rush, if you lock you win, so personally I concentrate on guaranteeing a lock. The interaction between Nexus and Tezz is interesting, but how many times have you won through that? How many times has inkmoth screwed you from the correct mana colors?
And Ratchet Bomb seems good, but why that over EE? I have no trouble setting it up to 4 counters with the shocklands, opals and glimmervoids. Ratchet on the other hand needs a turn per counter. Am i missing something?
I wouldn't run either, but if I were I'd keep the Inkmoth, against life gain decks, inkmoth is just better. But like I said, theres really no reason to even attack pre-lock and post-lock either works.
"When you get your opponent down to 0 sanity, you win the game!"
a blue black or esper build might be pretty cool.
Old nex vs new nex....Hard to say. I can see your point on splitting damage..(bad)...but a 5/5 flying infect is a 2-turn kill (good). Galv blasts are really for spot removal only....very rarely will they get into the red zone enough to make it worthwhile to dome them.
4x Tezz because I fill like I need to drop it t4 every game. Cutting to 3 might be ok...the thing is is that he is not just a win-con, but also does everything else we want as well in terms of tutoring and card advantage. Huge.
Yeah counters don't seem right even if this makes combo a bit scary.
Firespout and pyroclasm definitely important. I could see a split.
R bomb was my solution for nasty permanents that block our combo. I suppose you could up the EE count to accommodate. Leyline is at 4cc though...dicey.
My color requirements are much much lighter so Inkmoth has always been fine. I don't recommend it with glittering wish by any means.
Booby trap just adds another way to win that can be recursive...maybe 1x is correct though. Only good late game. It shines against control decks especially.
As for the artifact count, whiffing on Tezz's first ability sucks so you definitely need a bunch. That list plays a lot (18) but sometimes it still happens. Metalcraft usually hits by t5 or t6 consistently, in which case Thoughtcast becomes awesome.
I've taken a break from this deck to work on LoamPox for awhile, but I'll get back to this one for sure and test some more.
What's your current list zerodown?
Standard
Blows
Modern
BWUTeachingsBWU
GUGU TempoGU
WLifeW
RWValakut ControlRW
UBModern MillUB
Legacy
UMUCU
BPoxB
BWRTokensBWR
Pauper
UBGRW Domain UBGRW
Vintage
RVise-Burn!R
"Out of the crooked timber of humanity, nothing straight was ever made" - Immanuel Kant
However, I wanted to discuss something I have been trying to fit in for the past 2 days.
Griselbrand.
Scroll of Griselbrand
-Instant discard
-At the same cost of our combo pieces
-Recurrable
-Final locking piece
You want to get this to the graveyard ASAP while you put out your combo, via Faithless Looting or by playing it. Then as soon as you have 4 mana up and Academy Ruins you can recurr this thing every turn to instant discard on your opponent's draw step. This effectively lessens the burden on the combo since from that point forward you only need to shave off their instants.
Essentially you'd be time walking endlessly for 5 mana.
On their draw step > Activate Scroll > Recurr with Academy > Untap on your upkeep > Draw Scroll > Play Scroll > wait for their draw step > Rinse &...
I've been trying it from 4x to 1x trying to find the correct number, but harder than that is trying to find out what to take out.
"When you get your opponent down to 0 sanity, you win the game!"
True, that one has a drawing clause. Its what I had been having trouble with, drawing the Scroll on opening hands, the spellbomb can cycle itself.
Will test it as soon as I get out of work.
But the concept of it, does it sound like a good idea? I mean, does it sound worth implementing?
I'll edit this post for the decklists later if no one else has posted.
Thanks.
"When you get your opponent down to 0 sanity, you win the game!"
Use it to make them discard (maybe even the scapeshift they were holding unto), then once its recursion is active keep them from getting more lands.
Same Vs Tron. You can keep them from getting their lands up. Be aware, this can cause a tie vs Tron (Happened already). If you lock them out of their lands it will all come down to them discarding everything until they discard emrakul, then it starts again endlessly since neither player will get milled, BUT, you can tezz for the win once all is locked down.
Maybe a 1-off and 3 on SB for specific decks? I'm not sure, its just something I thought up, endless time walks for 5 mana sounded sweet.
EDIT: The stoic rebuttal also helps vs scapeshift now that i mained it. 4 Leyline and 2 more stoic out of SB will probably cripple scapeshift, storm, eggs, mill, et cetera. So probably discard is not even needed. Don't know, I'll test it out a bit just to give it a chance.
"When you get your opponent down to 0 sanity, you win the game!"
However, I got MWS installed on the office laptop, i thought of this off the top of my head and just won first game test.
I'm not sure if this could be developed competitively but it looks crazy fun.
4 Glimmervoid
4 Misty Ranforest
4 Steam Vents
2 Academy Ruins
2 Buried Ruins
1 Godless Shrine
4 Lantern of Insight
4 Ghoulcaller's Bell
4 Codex Shredder
3 Necrogen Spellbomb
3 Mishra's Bauble
3 Mox Opal
2 Scroll of Griselbrand
4 Faithless Looting
3 Pyroclasm
3 Stoic Rebuttal
3 Thoughtcast
3 Gitaxian Probe
2 Firespout
2 Reshape
"When you get your opponent down to 0 sanity, you win the game!"