I remember an article on tron maths as well that may be of note- something like how often they hit t3 tron off a t1 1 map- it was pretty frightening, but cannot remember the number. If they have mapped, tron will be turning up t4, more often than not.
Two decks run decay main deck in the format really- jund and rock, although I have seen it in various other places- junk lists (hatebears or otherwise), Todd Anderson's reanimator board (mentioning only because it would die horribly to chalice @1, not because it is a consideration per se) , 4 col gifts main etc. But that is not the point- my points are that chalice,probably the most powerful format hoser in legacy* is nowhere near that power level in modern. Everyone experienced in the two formats would agree with that. It may be worth a slot in some decks, but it won't be at that power level.
* as described on SCG select this week
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[quote from="Bombasso" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/modern-deck-creation/556716-r-w-lockdown-boros-bridge-rw-stax-landkill-and?comment=21"] been testing stax for awhile, and i'm considering it for a ptq next month.
I think the deck has alot of potential and can easily take over most of the played decks if built right, without all the cute stuff everyone is trying.
3 Magus of the Tabernacle
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Boom Burst
4 Ghostly prison
3 Stone Rain
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Lightning Helix
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Ajani Vengeant
Crucible of Worlds imho is what makes this deck good, many decks are not running more than 4 or 5 basic lands so recurring Ghost Quarters even without Arbiter can lock them out of the game even at turn 10.
Also Canopy+Crucible is huge draw engine, if you happen to get double Flagstones u have fetching every turn.
Chalice imho is stupid in modern, there is nothing you need to stop to justify running it.
Bridge is cute but i'd rather have infinite advantage with Canopy+Crucible eventually getting into some prison than plan on being at disadvantage the whole game and lose to any artifact removal.
Assemble the Legion imho is a wasted slot, once you get going you dont even need a win condition.
I'm still not sold on some stuff like path to Exile, but i think the deck has a lot of potential, it *****s easily on Scapeshift, Splinter Twin, Tron and UWR while also maintaining a good matchup against aggro decks, i'm not sure on the pod and jund matchups but everything else has been sooo easy. [/
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How do you protect your ajanis? GP does not defend pw's- you seem lower on removal cf a fair few lists I have seen. Or are they not that integral to your build?
The d and t thread has a rule on arbiters and fetches......every now and then someone runs both in a list and says it works.....cue massive discussion......I certainly do not see the need for them, especially when using crucible and just 5 plain targets, some of which are searched by flagstones.
I tried crucible-under the assumption that few decks ran >5 basics -it works well, for sure. I am always considering using one. A few decks are higher on basics- martyr/sistas, skred red, 8 rack- not many but some. Burn can be basic heavy, and can hold fetches back and operate off just 2 mana, burning arbiter when it is a problem. Does not like a leyline though......! Watch out for jotun grunt- now back into hatebear lists post drs- as well as rest in peace g2.
On assemble- well yes, there is a very good reason to run it- time.
PTQs running hour long rounds are great. Local events can be short and there is nothing more frustrating than win in the bag and time called. Assemble wins very quickly.....
It is also a super way to protect planeswalkers/players and then switch later into stomping opponents. probably the MVP in my list anyway.
Path is terrible in mana denial- I agree you should not be sold on it- and I know from experience how fragile aribters are- use them but don't rely on them making path good. Oust is probably better, but I would not use either, TBH.
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I get the use of crucible changes the way you play bb- I often found myself going for the big half because of crucible. My current list rarely does so...
You can ghost quarter your flagstones to fetch 2 lands as well- just seems all a bit dodgy to have search and arbiter.....have seen aven mindcensor in a few lists though
Previous mono white builds using 4 crucible have even used encroaching wastes....no doubting the power of crucible. Lots of nice tricks with it. People bought rip in for it when they saw it- which says something.
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Was going to run landkill last night, but thought the players might be getting bored of it. So I did not- will havea ptq in in a few weeks and will run it before then.
Anyone else brewing- seems abit quiet at the moment.
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Was going to run landkill last night, but thought the players might be getting bored of it. So I did not- will havea ptq in in a few weeks and will run it before then.
Anyone else brewing- seems abit quiet at the moment.
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Trading the cards for the build I run. Almost have the deck finished irl
I am testing lightning helix in stead of Prisms now. I had a lot of games where I top-decked prism late game, and that's just horrible. It does speed the deck up quite a bit. I mean, a turn three Thundermaw Hellkite is pretty scary for a prison deck ;). With Helix I hope I can stall some more without having the horrible top deck. I might try Crucible in stead as a 3-off with 1 Lightning Helix maybe, but I ended up cutting crucible in previous versions of my build so I'm still unsure if it's really worth it in my deck. It's also another three drop, which hurts the curve.
LGS turnout was low this week so I only got two matches in since I ended up with a bye.
M1: Grixis Twin (interesting deck) 0-2:
G1: got comboed out since I thought he was on control.
G2: 3 discard spells + Liliana + Slaughter Games on my Resto Angels hurt rather a lot. Still, I got Halo down on Exarch and Pestermite so it was draw-go for a long time until he ult'd Liliana, forced me to sack all my lands and beat down with Bob and Snapcaster. While it was nice getting the Halo lock out, having no threats show up was not a great feeling. Obviously the game would have been different if I hadn't lost all my Angels, and this didn't feel like a terrible matchup, but some earlier resilient threats would have felt nice.
M2: Storm 2-0
G1: T2 Halo on Grapeshot, kid doesn't concede, he makes me kill all his Electromancers first.
G2: Anger away his T3 Empty the Warrens tokens, then go Halo on Grapeshot -> Blood Moon -> Trinisphere -> Assemble the Legion. And he still made me play it out I am not sure if this matchup is really as easy as it seemed considering I more or less had nut draws both games. Which I guess isn't that hard when your nut draw is a Halo and two lands.
Given the very small sample size I can't make many worthwhile observations other than it is really great seeing the look on your opponents face when your enchantments land. The locks feel fragile but that may just be inexperience since the deck is pretty redundant/resilient. I would like to find a resilient early threats but I am not sure what I would take out. I don't love Wall of Omens but it does what it needs to do to prevent just losing to aggro. May tweak the sideboard a bit.
I almost took a picture of the board state vs storm last time I played it with full on landkill/tax version- G2 I went t0 leyline, t2 boom//bust/ etc. with judicious use of landkill and top draws after (boil!, stone rain etc.) all ended up with double aura of silence, leyline and land/signets vs. a whole 1 land- with me with guttural response in hand too. There was genuine laughter as we concluded that he could tutor every tutor for the next 10 turns and still not win.
I have found that full on landkill's best matches are twin, storm, tron and affinity- certainly a good place to be. Worst matches are those involving heavy discard and pressure- tokens, 8 rack, although 8 rack really gets blown out by bust and in the more common builds, leyline.
I suspect that from my limited experience, twin versions, running less landkill, have a different set of top and bottom matches, and probably draw far less often- which is a huge problem with defensive lock lists.
@manchego- your list looks rather lighter on locks, higher on combo and "I win", draw and general/utility, so yeah, I guess that would seem more fragile as it is not a lock heavy list, running little landkill and no recursion. It does not really matter, as long as it works for you and you get to know it. It looks a solid list. Might be worth a sleeve up of a magus/lockdown list to compare how they work.
The War's Toll seems dirty with the Magus lock. I like the looks of it. I have also been thinking about a miser's Cloister, have you found it to be worth the slot?
Hey guys, long time no post. Played my r/w list again at FNM on friday to a first place finish. The only changes I have made to the deck since is i pulled the batterskull to the board and i'm running an assemble the legion mainboard. The card does work on a locked down board. Much love.
My win was against UWR Control, RUG Delver, UWR Twin and BG Rock we hard drew into me on top and him at second (we went to time lol).
I hadn't played the deck is a few weeks because i wanted to mix it up a bit and to let people readjust their sideboard (as my deck was starting to get far too much hate garnered in sideboard) and it appears to have worked. No one expected me to dust off the deck again. I mainly pulled the list out again now because my LGS is hosting a modern PTQ on the 14th of June and ill be participating it with my r/w deck and i wanted some more practice with the deck.
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First tournament top 8 11/4/12 at the SCG IQ in Santa Cruz!
You are not the first to use it, but I have never used it myself in straight landkill shells- the old thread had some discussion on it in a couple of contexts- I completely forgot to add it into the revised primer:mad:
I believe there was a general consensus on the old thread that the card was a bit like storage matrix- great sometimes,and at other times did little. But I can't say for certain as I have not had much experience.
From matches vs jund, junk and rock, which tend to be grindy, you get to see how much of a lock we have- and the answer is we don't really have a hard lock vs those rock based decks with efficient removal and ca. Other decks like affinity are naturally vulnerable to a bit of landkill and ghostly prisons, and they can't wriggle back in to it. Pod and rock based strategies can sometimes-often wriggle out with the right top decks. It is in those matches you can find out what war's toll does on its own, and if it has a strong enough effect. Those are the removal heavy matches with the best permanent control.
War's toll makes it a harder lock, but in those grindy matches you will see how much the card does in different circumstances- and you will be best placed to tell us. My worry is that it needs lock pieces to be in place to be effective, and there are matches where maelstrom pulse/abrupt decays reign down on our prisons, making the toll a worse draw than say a sweeper like andger of the gods or even a bridge. In fact I have found the key in such matches is to not put all the eggs in the prison basket, boarding out one or two prisons and keeping my permanents as varied as possible. If war's toll works in those matches it will be worth its place.
Incidentally, I want to ask how the orbs are doing in the board? I always feel leyline effects are not necessary save for ad nauseam, and then I play 4 col gifts, jund, rock etc and they turn out to be amazing when boarded in, hitting lilly ultimates, gifts and other things you do not suspect matter but always do. Rest in peace is the similar- you think it is just for reanimator/dredge/living end but it actually really hurts decks like melira pod and jund too- and is more effective as they are not expecting it the way living end/reanimator are.
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I think lockdown decks are more fun, but not more effective.
Queller costs 5, does nothing the turn it comes down, and exists in a format with PTE and vapor snag.
On the plus side he can get earlier scoops. The other problem is in order to get queller down we have to use mana rocks. If we use mana rocks and darksteels we often find our own stuff dying as much as theirs for a couple of turns. With token generating he can be great naming critters. And your enemy does not get to see what you name.
Hope it goes well either way.
On cloister- its great. Most games go long. It is not good vs all in zoo decks or affinity- but the nuts vs everything else. IT is a removal magnet, and is especially good at getting back lost card advantage to maelstrom pulse effects. I have even considered another in the board or main. It rarely gives rise to blowout when played correctly.
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Hmm don't know about War's toll. I tend to not like cards that are ineffective on their own in this deck. Evry dropped card should lock them further down, and War's toll seems more like overkill in combination with other cards, or useless on its own. Have you tried running a list without them and 4x Magus (+ extra spot left)
Also 23 land is imo not enough, even with two mind stones. We have a clunky mana curve with high cost cards. If you want to be able to play World Queller at least on turn 5, you should probably run 25+ land. Or never had mana troubles?
Why I dropped queller- mana flood on an adjusted base, or mana screw as he made the top end heavy.
23 land, 3 signet is fine for a top end of 2-3 assemble the legion (NB mind stone never as good for me). two signet works too. If I want to run other stuff that cost 5 I would go to 24-5 land, keep 2/3 signets and hope the lands have utility- manlands, tec edges etc.
Or I would run 23-3 split and play 2 crucible, but then you definitely want an extra utility land anyway for recursion.
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Hmm don't know about War's toll. I tend to not like cards that are ineffective on their own in this deck.
War's Toll would provide some level of disruption on its own against any deck that wants to be able to do multiple of: increase board presence, attack with manlands, play combat tricks or interact on your turn. So basically every deck that's not Bogles. Of course it's easier for some to play around than others, but that's what layered defenses are for.
War's Toll + Ghostly Prison + Magus of the Tabernacle basically shuts down any creature strategy. Just another lock for the deck. I'd suggest others try out War's Toll, it's done work the 3 times I've had it in play and has become a priority target for my opponents even above Assemble the Legion. It's not a 4-of type of card, and 2 might even be pushing it. But when it's hit, it has always changed the way my opponent plays and won me the game. Now granted this has been in the "Just for Fun" room on MTGO but, one of those games was against a legitimate UW Control deck.
There is certainly an argument for diversifying our defense. jund/rock often beat us (and by us I mean any RW lockdown not running leyline main deck, and especially landkill strategies) game one because they top a pulse and win- we can't hold back prisons, and when pulse does its work it is brutal.
Correspondingly, in game 2 I even board out the odd prison, and run rest in peace and leylines, each one acting to irritate and inhibit part of their catch all strategy. The more diverse my defense/offense - the more I win. When each pulse can only hit a one of, its happy days- it becomes straight c advantage battle- my cloister/armageddons/asssembles/rips/leylines vs their bob, pulse, decay, manlands, handkill, lilly. So I am not going to dismiss war's toll out of hand, if only for those matches.
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Played a 4 round tourney last nite with a slightly tweaked version of my deck. Went 2-2, but should have been at least 2-1-1.
Main
-2 Wall of Omens
-1 Wrath of God
+2 Spellskite
+1 Bottled Cloister
Side
-1 Wear/Tear
-2 Defense Grid
+1 Wrath of God
+2 Boil
M1: UWR Kiki Control 2-1
G1: Got comboed out, made the mistake of not jamming Runed Halo on Resto Angel when I had a chance since I was pretty sure what deck he was on.
G2: Lived the dream, Kiki comboed when he tapped out for Keranos.
G3: Bled out his resources (Boil sure is good counter bait), set up a few defenses, and finally managed to land a Resto and beat down for the win.
M2: UWR Control 0-1
G1: Long game, eventually got burned out thanks to Snappy.
G2: Another long game. Had him on like 10 mountains and a plains due to Blood Moon. Bottled Cloister was pretty sweet here going from hellbent to full in 4 turns, not sure how I feel about it in general as it rotted in my hand a couple other times. Massive punt on my part, I had the win on overtime turn 4 but forgot to play Spellskite first >.<
M3: Domain midrange, weird deck 2-1
G1: Anger away birds + Geist, Halo on Goyf, Plop down Assemble, get a scoop.
G2: T3 Geist -> Anger -> T4 Geist. Yup.
G3: Sequence right to get a Blood Moon down through counters, get a scoop.
M4: Affinity 0-2
G1: Didn't hit a 2nd red source for Anger, no real great defenses, got rolled
G2: T2 Stony Silence -> T3 Blood Moon -> double Nature's Claim, sad panda. Panicked a bit and used up my removal too early, got 2 prisons down but a turn to late on each, eventually got ground out. Pretty sure I sideboarded wrong for this game. Had lots of cards I wanted to bring in, and none I really wanted to take out so ended up shaving various things. This matchup will require some thought.
Same general thoughts as last week. The soft locks feel tenuous especially against Blue decks that keep my few threats from landing. Boil was really just counter bait, and I'm not sure if it is worth the big tempo hit from getting it countered. Probably will try Guttural Response next time, although I am not sold on it. I also want to try out War's Toll, Ajani V and maybe Elspeth KE in the main. Toll seems good for screwing with people's normal lines which is very fitting with the theme of the deck. It also feels like a planeswalker would be useful as a resilient source of pressure. The question is going to be what to cut, I think the deck is pretty tight as it is.
I am planning to play some local PTQ this month and I found this deck is very similar to what I play in legacy: Painted Stone. In Modern format I think the most powerful cards could be Blood Moon, Leyline of Sanctity and Ensnaring Bridge(or Ghostly Prison).
Blood Moon shuts down most three color decks and we can play Koth for the win con.
Leyline of Sanctity shuts down Storm, Burn and Scapeshift. It also beats Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek and Lightning Bolt.
Ensnaring Bridge is a very powerful card which beats most beat down decks but not Affinity. Ghostly Prison could be better in some situations but it can not beat Tarmogoyf.
Some decks could have answers like Abrupt Decay and Cryptic Command. So I will play at least one copy of Privileged Position or Greater Auramancy. Ajani Vengeant and Assemble the Legion could be very good here. Ajani can win the game alone and Assemble the Legion is nearly unbeatable in Modern. Idyllic Tutor is slow, but it could be helpful if you are playing many one-ofs main deck such as Rest in Peace and Stony Silence. Lightning Helix and Anger of the Gods are very good answers in many situations.
But I found Affinity could be a very bad match up. It's just too fast for us to set up a lock and it's very difficult to lock Cranial Plating without Stony Silence.
This is the deck I will play this weekend.
Two decks run decay main deck in the format really- jund and rock, although I have seen it in various other places- junk lists (hatebears or otherwise), Todd Anderson's reanimator board (mentioning only because it would die horribly to chalice @1, not because it is a consideration per se) , 4 col gifts main etc. But that is not the point- my points are that chalice,probably the most powerful format hoser in legacy* is nowhere near that power level in modern. Everyone experienced in the two formats would agree with that. It may be worth a slot in some decks, but it won't be at that power level.
* as described on SCG select this week
I think the deck has alot of potential and can easily take over most of the played decks if built right, without all the cute stuff everyone is trying.
Here's where i'm at:
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Horizon Canopy
2 Arid Mesa
3 Mountain
1 plains
3 Magus of the Tabernacle
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Boom Burst
4 Ghostly prison
3 Stone Rain
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Lightning Helix
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Ajani Vengeant
Crucible of Worlds imho is what makes this deck good, many decks are not running more than 4 or 5 basic lands so recurring Ghost Quarters even without Arbiter can lock them out of the game even at turn 10.
Also Canopy+Crucible is huge draw engine, if you happen to get double Flagstones u have fetching every turn.
Chalice imho is stupid in modern, there is nothing you need to stop to justify running it.
Bridge is cute but i'd rather have infinite advantage with Canopy+Crucible eventually getting into some prison than plan on being at disadvantage the whole game and lose to any artifact removal.
Assemble the Legion imho is a wasted slot, once you get going you dont even need a win condition.
I'm still not sold on some stuff like path to Exile, but i think the deck has a lot of potential, it *****s easily on Scapeshift, Splinter Twin, Tron and UWR while also maintaining a good matchup against aggro decks, i'm not sure on the pod and jund matchups but everything else has been sooo easy. [/
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How do you protect your ajanis? GP does not defend pw's- you seem lower on removal cf a fair few lists I have seen. Or are they not that integral to your build?
The d and t thread has a rule on arbiters and fetches......every now and then someone runs both in a list and says it works.....cue massive discussion......I certainly do not see the need for them, especially when using crucible and just 5 plain targets, some of which are searched by flagstones.
I tried crucible-under the assumption that few decks ran >5 basics -it works well, for sure. I am always considering using one. A few decks are higher on basics- martyr/sistas, skred red, 8 rack- not many but some. Burn can be basic heavy, and can hold fetches back and operate off just 2 mana, burning arbiter when it is a problem. Does not like a leyline though......! Watch out for jotun grunt- now back into hatebear lists post drs- as well as rest in peace g2.
On assemble- well yes, there is a very good reason to run it- time.
PTQs running hour long rounds are great. Local events can be short and there is nothing more frustrating than win in the bag and time called. Assemble wins very quickly.....
It is also a super way to protect planeswalkers/players and then switch later into stomping opponents. probably the MVP in my list anyway.
Path is terrible in mana denial- I agree you should not be sold on it- and I know from experience how fragile aribters are- use them but don't rely on them making path good. Oust is probably better, but I would not use either, TBH.
You can ghost quarter your flagstones to fetch 2 lands as well- just seems all a bit dodgy to have search and arbiter.....have seen aven mindcensor in a few lists though
Previous mono white builds using 4 crucible have even used encroaching wastes....no doubting the power of crucible. Lots of nice tricks with it. People bought rip in for it when they saw it- which says something.
Anyone else brewing- seems abit quiet at the moment.
Anyone else brewing- seems abit quiet at the moment.
I am testing lightning helix in stead of Prisms now. I had a lot of games where I top-decked prism late game, and that's just horrible. It does speed the deck up quite a bit. I mean, a turn three Thundermaw Hellkite is pretty scary for a prison deck ;). With Helix I hope I can stall some more without having the horrible top deck. I might try Crucible in stead as a 3-off with 1 Lightning Helix maybe, but I ended up cutting crucible in previous versions of my build so I'm still unsure if it's really worth it in my deck. It's also another three drop, which hurts the curve.
Anybody any results with lockdown lately?
2x Anger of the Gods
2x Assemble the Legion
1x Batterskull
2x Blood Moon
3x Clifftop Retreat
2x Ghost Quarter
4x Ghostly Prison
2x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lightning Helix
3x Mountain
3x Oblivion Ring
7x Plains
4x Restoration Angel
3x Rugged Prairie
3x Runed Halo
3x Sacred Foundry
3x Temple of Triumph
4x Wall of Omens
1x Wrath of God
2x Dismember
3x Rest in Peace
3x Stony Silence
2x Defense Grid
1x Trinisphere
3x Wear / Tear
1x Wrath of God
LGS turnout was low this week so I only got two matches in since I ended up with a bye.
M1: Grixis Twin (interesting deck) 0-2:
G1: got comboed out since I thought he was on control.
G2: 3 discard spells + Liliana + Slaughter Games on my Resto Angels hurt rather a lot. Still, I got Halo down on Exarch and Pestermite so it was draw-go for a long time until he ult'd Liliana, forced me to sack all my lands and beat down with Bob and Snapcaster. While it was nice getting the Halo lock out, having no threats show up was not a great feeling. Obviously the game would have been different if I hadn't lost all my Angels, and this didn't feel like a terrible matchup, but some earlier resilient threats would have felt nice.
M2: Storm 2-0
G1: T2 Halo on Grapeshot, kid doesn't concede, he makes me kill all his Electromancers first.
G2: Anger away his T3 Empty the Warrens tokens, then go Halo on Grapeshot -> Blood Moon -> Trinisphere -> Assemble the Legion. And he still made me play it out I am not sure if this matchup is really as easy as it seemed considering I more or less had nut draws both games. Which I guess isn't that hard when your nut draw is a Halo and two lands.
Given the very small sample size I can't make many worthwhile observations other than it is really great seeing the look on your opponents face when your enchantments land. The locks feel fragile but that may just be inexperience since the deck is pretty redundant/resilient. I would like to find a resilient early threats but I am not sure what I would take out. I don't love Wall of Omens but it does what it needs to do to prevent just losing to aggro. May tweak the sideboard a bit.
I have found that full on landkill's best matches are twin, storm, tron and affinity- certainly a good place to be. Worst matches are those involving heavy discard and pressure- tokens, 8 rack, although 8 rack really gets blown out by bust and in the more common builds, leyline.
I suspect that from my limited experience, twin versions, running less landkill, have a different set of top and bottom matches, and probably draw far less often- which is a huge problem with defensive lock lists.
@manchego- your list looks rather lighter on locks, higher on combo and "I win", draw and general/utility, so yeah, I guess that would seem more fragile as it is not a lock heavy list, running little landkill and no recursion. It does not really matter, as long as it works for you and you get to know it. It looks a solid list. Might be worth a sleeve up of a magus/lockdown list to compare how they work.
My win was against UWR Control, RUG Delver, UWR Twin and BG Rock we hard drew into me on top and him at second (we went to time lol).
I hadn't played the deck is a few weeks because i wanted to mix it up a bit and to let people readjust their sideboard (as my deck was starting to get far too much hate garnered in sideboard) and it appears to have worked. No one expected me to dust off the deck again. I mainly pulled the list out again now because my LGS is hosting a modern PTQ on the 14th of June and ill be participating it with my r/w deck and i wanted some more practice with the deck.
My decks
Top 4 (4th) SCG IQ 11/4/12
I believe there was a general consensus on the old thread that the card was a bit like storage matrix- great sometimes,and at other times did little. But I can't say for certain as I have not had much experience.
From matches vs jund, junk and rock, which tend to be grindy, you get to see how much of a lock we have- and the answer is we don't really have a hard lock vs those rock based decks with efficient removal and ca. Other decks like affinity are naturally vulnerable to a bit of landkill and ghostly prisons, and they can't wriggle back in to it. Pod and rock based strategies can sometimes-often wriggle out with the right top decks. It is in those matches you can find out what war's toll does on its own, and if it has a strong enough effect. Those are the removal heavy matches with the best permanent control.
War's toll makes it a harder lock, but in those grindy matches you will see how much the card does in different circumstances- and you will be best placed to tell us. My worry is that it needs lock pieces to be in place to be effective, and there are matches where maelstrom pulse/abrupt decays reign down on our prisons, making the toll a worse draw than say a sweeper like andger of the gods or even a bridge. In fact I have found the key in such matches is to not put all the eggs in the prison basket, boarding out one or two prisons and keeping my permanents as varied as possible. If war's toll works in those matches it will be worth its place.
Incidentally, I want to ask how the orbs are doing in the board? I always feel leyline effects are not necessary save for ad nauseam, and then I play 4 col gifts, jund, rock etc and they turn out to be amazing when boarded in, hitting lilly ultimates, gifts and other things you do not suspect matter but always do. Rest in peace is the similar- you think it is just for reanimator/dredge/living end but it actually really hurts decks like melira pod and jund too- and is more effective as they are not expecting it the way living end/reanimator are.
Queller costs 5, does nothing the turn it comes down, and exists in a format with PTE and vapor snag.
On the plus side he can get earlier scoops. The other problem is in order to get queller down we have to use mana rocks. If we use mana rocks and darksteels we often find our own stuff dying as much as theirs for a couple of turns. With token generating he can be great naming critters. And your enemy does not get to see what you name.
Hope it goes well either way.
On cloister- its great. Most games go long. It is not good vs all in zoo decks or affinity- but the nuts vs everything else. IT is a removal magnet, and is especially good at getting back lost card advantage to maelstrom pulse effects. I have even considered another in the board or main. It rarely gives rise to blowout when played correctly.
Also 23 land is imo not enough, even with two mind stones. We have a clunky mana curve with high cost cards. If you want to be able to play World Queller at least on turn 5, you should probably run 25+ land. Or never had mana troubles?
23 land, 3 signet is fine for a top end of 2-3 assemble the legion (NB mind stone never as good for me). two signet works too. If I want to run other stuff that cost 5 I would go to 24-5 land, keep 2/3 signets and hope the lands have utility- manlands, tec edges etc.
Or I would run 23-3 split and play 2 crucible, but then you definitely want an extra utility land anyway for recursion.
War's Toll would provide some level of disruption on its own against any deck that wants to be able to do multiple of: increase board presence, attack with manlands, play combat tricks or interact on your turn. So basically every deck that's not Bogles. Of course it's easier for some to play around than others, but that's what layered defenses are for.
Correspondingly, in game 2 I even board out the odd prison, and run rest in peace and leylines, each one acting to irritate and inhibit part of their catch all strategy. The more diverse my defense/offense - the more I win. When each pulse can only hit a one of, its happy days- it becomes straight c advantage battle- my cloister/armageddons/asssembles/rips/leylines vs their bob, pulse, decay, manlands, handkill, lilly. So I am not going to dismiss war's toll out of hand, if only for those matches.
Main
-2 Wall of Omens
-1 Wrath of God
+2 Spellskite
+1 Bottled Cloister
Side
-1 Wear/Tear
-2 Defense Grid
+1 Wrath of God
+2 Boil
M1: UWR Kiki Control 2-1
G1: Got comboed out, made the mistake of not jamming Runed Halo on Resto Angel when I had a chance since I was pretty sure what deck he was on.
G2: Lived the dream, Kiki comboed when he tapped out for Keranos.
G3: Bled out his resources (Boil sure is good counter bait), set up a few defenses, and finally managed to land a Resto and beat down for the win.
M2: UWR Control 0-1
G1: Long game, eventually got burned out thanks to Snappy.
G2: Another long game. Had him on like 10 mountains and a plains due to Blood Moon. Bottled Cloister was pretty sweet here going from hellbent to full in 4 turns, not sure how I feel about it in general as it rotted in my hand a couple other times. Massive punt on my part, I had the win on overtime turn 4 but forgot to play Spellskite first >.<
M3: Domain midrange, weird deck 2-1
G1: Anger away birds + Geist, Halo on Goyf, Plop down Assemble, get a scoop.
G2: T3 Geist -> Anger -> T4 Geist. Yup.
G3: Sequence right to get a Blood Moon down through counters, get a scoop.
M4: Affinity 0-2
G1: Didn't hit a 2nd red source for Anger, no real great defenses, got rolled
G2: T2 Stony Silence -> T3 Blood Moon -> double Nature's Claim, sad panda. Panicked a bit and used up my removal too early, got 2 prisons down but a turn to late on each, eventually got ground out. Pretty sure I sideboarded wrong for this game. Had lots of cards I wanted to bring in, and none I really wanted to take out so ended up shaving various things. This matchup will require some thought.
Same general thoughts as last week. The soft locks feel tenuous especially against Blue decks that keep my few threats from landing. Boil was really just counter bait, and I'm not sure if it is worth the big tempo hit from getting it countered. Probably will try Guttural Response next time, although I am not sold on it. I also want to try out War's Toll, Ajani V and maybe Elspeth KE in the main. Toll seems good for screwing with people's normal lines which is very fitting with the theme of the deck. It also feels like a planeswalker would be useful as a resilient source of pressure. The question is going to be what to cut, I think the deck is pretty tight as it is.
Blood Moon shuts down most three color decks and we can play Koth for the win con.
Leyline of Sanctity shuts down Storm, Burn and Scapeshift. It also beats Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek and Lightning Bolt.
Ensnaring Bridge is a very powerful card which beats most beat down decks but not Affinity. Ghostly Prison could be better in some situations but it can not beat Tarmogoyf.
Some decks could have answers like Abrupt Decay and Cryptic Command. So I will play at least one copy of Privileged Position or Greater Auramancy.
Ajani Vengeant and Assemble the Legion could be very good here. Ajani can win the game alone and Assemble the Legion is nearly unbeatable in Modern.
Idyllic Tutor is slow, but it could be helpful if you are playing many one-ofs main deck such as Rest in Peace and Stony Silence.
Lightning Helix and Anger of the Gods are very good answers in many situations.
But I found Affinity could be a very bad match up. It's just too fast for us to set up a lock and it's very difficult to lock Cranial Plating without Stony Silence.
This is the deck I will play this weekend.
8 Plains
2 Mountain
4 Arid Mesa
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Clifftop Retreat
Creatures
4 Simian Spirit Guide
Planeswalkers
2 Ajani Vengeant
1 Koth of the Hammer
Sorcery and Instants
4 Lightning Helix
2 Anger of the Gods
Other Spells
3 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Blood Moon
4 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Greater Auramancy
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 Stony Silence
1 Rest in Peace
2 Nevermore
1 Assemble the Legion
1 Sphere of Safety
2 Ghostly Prison
2 Porphyry Nodes
2 Runed Halo
1 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Torpor Orb
2 Stony Silence
2 Defense Grid
1 Damping Matrix
1 Lightmine Field
1 Rest in Peace
2 Combust
3 Boros Charm