Split card and Leyline/PW interactions weakened the deck marginally but definitely a non zero factor. It was definitely collateral damage, but damage nonetheless. Unbanning cards did not help too, Jace offers more than Nahiri, and Uw always predated on RW, plus BBE resurrected Jund, which also got the Leyline redirect boost. Lots of small things that hurt, making more Jund and Uw x will always hurt prison.
Just general attitude to fetches changed too, fewer fetches, more fast lands made the landkill ish variants worse as well, as well as straight up landkill.
Given where the deck is now, and the preponderance of good U walkers being made, I wonder what is needed in terms of printings to edge the deck up to the percentage levels of, say, rg land kill or some such.
At the moment I think the main form of the deck would need a walker that is specifically red, or RW. In the first case then effectively what is likely to transpire is that the mono Red Chalice prison lists and Skred plus RW here would share such a beast. In the second it would be shared with Jeskai if it is a good control card.
The most hope would for me lie in new tech being printed for the Bridge form of the decks, because they are harder to slip in to the Jeskai control builds that like full hands. RW landkill simply needs the format to go back to fetches in previous numbers, otherwise the main reason to be in W, Suppression Field, becomes pointless when you can ramp into actual t2 landkill in RG.
For the next year there are some good portents. Suppression Field,is one of the few activated ability taxes and is a potentially powerful card in a fetch meta, seeing play in the fringe Soldier Stompy Legacy deck, was originally a Rav block card. Rtr bought Sphere of Safety to the table, beloved of more fringe Enduring Ideal and Pillow Fort builds. Both are taxing cards from Rav themed blocks, it could be there are more on the way.
Recent sets have had attempts at more answer cards aimed at Modern, which is a shift from the days when Stoddard would happily present the latest "fun" threat destined for the banned list. However, most answers aside from Dampening Sphere and perhaps the Blood Sun/Alpine moon at a push have been disappointing.
So there might be something.
One thing I do not expect are good colour hosers. Their recent attempts are still way short of Boil and Scald, let alone Karma, Perish or Gloom. When protection is off the table as being too good, we can't hope to redress the balance in performance compared to I based decks with new goodies aimed at hosing blue mages.
I am marginally more positive than I have been, but honestly expect nothing much.
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Hey folks, I featured RW Sun & Moon on my stream this morning. I just uploaded the VOD to YouTube for those who would like to catch the content, but didn't see it live. The stream starts around 2 minutes in, the first two minutes is me setting up. You can also use the description to jump between parts of the video (deck tech, matches, closing comments).
Thanks everyone. Hope you enjoy the videos. Deck was awesome. We didn't hit the MUs I was hoping to, but we pulled out with a positive record in the end.
Check out some Magic Gameplay and Commentary videos here, including Modern Grixis, Jeskai, and Esper videos as well as some Standard and Drafts too: My YouTube Channel!
I think the main is pretty close to standard.
As regards the the board, the only thing that strikes me is 2 Leyline. With 4 you get a 40 pc chance of one in the opener, and the card shines when it is there. If the card is important you need ⁴4, if not then I would say cut it completely and run runed halo as a 2 of.
The format is split between aggro control decks like human and spirits, which are not awful matches, counterspell based board control which is hard, tron which is ok, affinity based decks (there are two archetypes) and some aggressive stuff that acts like combo and can put stupid power on the board, such as hollow one or the new vengevine decks,and good stuff decks as exemplified by mardu pyromancer. There are plenty of others like storm, ironworks combo, scapeshift etc. However, the overwhelming message is rest in peace is golden right now, as is stony silence. I would run 3 of each. I would jeep boil as it us good vs uw control. I think spyglass is probably the easiest cut, it is a reasonable card now but not the powerhouse the others are.
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The concept needs a build-around control card - something that every deck would fear like what winter orb used to be. A powered up version of sceptre of dominion (including the white mana requirement) seems like it could be a good place to start.
I wish they'd give us a new version of wastelands too. I get that it'd be too good for modern but you could create a near-functional reprint that just requires red mana.
I dont know who decided that land destruction is bad but they were wrong. Land destruction is healthy. It pushes midrange decks away from their insanely small mana-bases, less power, slows a lot of the format down, makes aggro more narrow and specialized, etc...
It is a "feel bad" for new players, and indeed some older ones who don't know when to scoop, and most casuals. Most of the older ones well versed in older formats know better, and despite WOTC's attempts at drawing casuals in, where they elevated futility and incompetence to art forms, casuals still are not battering down the door to play Standard. As regards new players, WOTC pursue them like a wolf with muzzle outstretched, to quote Ovid (and we all know what he meant when he said it), and their desire to get them playing Standard overrules all- like a bank offering the best deals to new customers. LD keeps greedy manabases honest and hurts public enemy number one - Tron. It also makes people sequence their spells differently and play around potential draws, on both sides of the board. Legacy players accept it in the form of Wasteland and it makes for a splendid format.
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The just-spoiled Assassin's Trophy just made me angry.
I won't spoil it except to say it's not our colors, but as far as the effect that it has - I honestly don't understand why the card couldn't be printed in RW. It does a thing that is a mix of red things and white things and it even has a white themed balancing clause. What the hell?
It should've at least required a sacrifice to be in Black.
Sorry to be dancing around it but this looks like it could be a format changer and I'm jealous. I'm sure there'll be plenty of trash Boros anthems though.
Thoughts about the just-announced Deafening Clarion ? Looks like a good swap-in for a sweeper or two.
Card Type: Sorcery
Casting Cost: 1 colorless / 1 red / 1 white
Card Text: Choose one or both —
• Deafening Clarion deals 3 damage to each creature.
• Creatures you control gain lifelink until end of turn.
Rarity: Rare
I love the potential to combine with an attacking Gideon.
I hate it. It's just barely powerful enough to be the Boros rare but not nearly powerful enough to help us. It's not like a lack of lifegain was the missing element keeping Anger of the Gods from dominating the format. It is crap.
I think you're trying to weigh it against Assassin's Trophy; in that sense you're 10000% correct; it's nowhere near that level of bustedness. I'm merely asking if it fits in the 75, and I believe it does, or at the very least, warrants a one-of or two-of testing somewhere before labeling it 'crap'.
I am known for getting overly excited about Johnny cards and then having to walk it back later. Even a guy like me can't drum up any enthusiasm for testing this. I already tested 3 cmc sweepers extensively - I never once wished I could tack Lifelink onto any of the existing cards - not even as a dual-mode. If your board-state is behind or even it's just a bad Anger. If you're ahead it's a win-more. If you're imagining using it for creature combat tricks then you're not playing Lockdown.
at worst, it's a Anger without exile (which is slightly less critical in our deck, since we run solid graveyard hate). at best, it's an Anger that gains you 4 or 6 life (or perhaps 10), as long as you turn your Gideon/s into creatures prior to casting it.
Still feels testable to me, but I totally agree that it's not a 4-of and not likely to make a noticeable amount of difference over a small sample of games.
Here's the first Johnny card in RW - Truefire Captain - RRWW for a 4/3 with the Boros Reckoner damage redirection ability plus the new Mentor ability. I think the following concept still needs a lot of help before it's ready for more than casual play but I'll lay it out because it seems interesting to me.
Truefire Captain is definitely not a Lockdown card unfortunately, bit it is a sort of control card. It can trade well against creatures and it can double as a win condition in a Blasphemous Act strategy. You curve through pyroclasm into Boros Reckoner, Spitemare and Truefire Captain. Pyroclasm doubles as an early-turn aggro answer and it also becomes enhanced by the redirect ability. The three creatures are all must-answer - they can't be allowed to stay on the board at all. The concept has a definite weakness to permission and is probably too slow if you try to play it as a combo or aggro but probably doesn't have strong enough answer cards to go control or midrange.
Don't expect much unless you can find at least a few additional synergies but going from 8 copies of a key effect to 12 copies is sometimes significant. For example Bogles ideally wants to have at least 10-11 first-turn hexproof creatures and suffers from only having 8.
Just spinning wheels...
Oh and if I'm not mistaken this would be the one case where Deafening Clarion provides an advantage over other 3 cmc sweepers since Reckoner effects have the creature deal the damage.
Justice Strike (RW - instant - creature deals damage to itself equal to it's power) I think supports my belief that a RW immolation theme is being developed as I discussed in my previous post.
Unfortunately I think that this set is probably going to be a giant turd from the perspective of RW Lockdown. If anything I think we might get more help from other decks hating out certain of our bad matchups than from any cards printed in our own colors.
maybe run a couple of these and add more gideon of the trials, to exploit Gideon's 'you cannot lose' ability to get Nahiri over the top quickly or swing gideon jura twice with no remorse? Nahiri's clock would become unexpectedly explosive. True, you'd need to be in a bit of 'already winning' re having Gideon and Nahiri out which is a bit 'win more', but even if u didn't have Gideon and his token, in the right scenarios where a single Emrakul swipe was guaranteed to hit for lethal, it still ups the deck's clock immensely.
PLayed in my first PPTQ in years today with this list. Didn't expect to do well, but was happy with the results. I realised afterwards that Assemble and Batterkull are very much pet cards so looking to change them to Gideon of the Trails. I've never been a fan of them but it seems everyone is, so there must be something there I'm missing.
I was expecting a lot of burn & storm, with dabblings of affinity. Turned out there was a lot of burn, but not much of the others.
Round 1 - Mill
Yes mill... I was happy at first since its a pretty good matchup. Turns out this guys list was less than typial. I didn't see any crabs or Orbs, and instead saw a bunch of counterspells. He was able to counter/mill most of my threats, and I got pretty landflooded. Game went quite long, but I held on as I was slowly getting him down with a Simian Spirit guide, and had enough burn in hand to finish him off. I didn't draw Emrakul to way late, and didn't have any way to discard him, even if I discarded to handsize there weren't enough cards left in my libary. He was able to land Ensnaring bride, and I didnt have enough burn to finish the job
The second game we didn't have much time for, I manage to tick up a Nahiri pretty quick, and he had a bridge in play. I felt the game slipping away as he resolved a second bridge. I had cast out in hand, and a Nahiri at the ready. I cast out one of them, and just needed to draw abrade. Sadly the Abrade didnt come till the following turn, but by then he had counterspells up
Round 2 - Mill
Yep, seriously. Mill again. I got to play the only 2 mill decks back to back. Thankfully this one was traditional mill. He extracted by Emrakul and Nahiri but I was able to ult a chandra to finish him off.
Second game I played Leyline on turn zero, and Nahiri turn two. Was over quick
Round 3 - Hardened Scales
I didn't really know what this deck was. Got pretty land flooded but he was able to land a pretty big Arcbound and Hangerback. I was able to Jam an elspeth near the end which I thought saved me. I swung in with an emmy but this just enabled him to blow up his hangerback and swing back for lethal. Not going for emmy would have been lethal as well so I think this game was over either way
Game 2 I don't remember exactly how this game went, other than I lost it. All I recall is my op being able to kill me with an inkmoth nexus if he went all in, but was able to bluff for a few more turns.
Round 4 - Storm
Finally a "normal" deck. I landed an early chalice and was able to keep Baral off the field. Opp drew pretty poorly so I was able to resolve chalice on 1 & 2 to lock him out of the game.
Game 2 he didn't draw much better. I mulled to turn 0 Leyline, and had Anger in hand for his gobbos. He got some pretty bad draws again, and even wiffed on a Pieces of the puzzle. Finished him with Nahiri/emmy
Round 5 - Ad Nauseum
I felt pretty comfortable about this matchup, however somehow I didn't decide correctly after the last round, and my opening hand was 2 leyline and 1 rest in peace. I called a judge on myself, who thankfully only made me mull. I was so tilted the first game I misplayed a bunch and lost it.
Game 2 my opp thought I was on Mardu since I didn't do much first game, so they had sideboarded incorrectly. I was able to chalice him for 0 and leyline him to lock him out of the game.
Game 3 I dont recall exactly what my hand was but I remember mulling to 6 and it was all lands. I think I was over it at this point. Shouldn't have kept. Was able to bluff my way to around turn 8, but lost.
Round 6 - Burn
Ah burn, finally a bye. However I got land flooded in game 1. Some helix's on some GG's kept me around for a while, but too many lands.
Game 2 landed leyline and chalice for 1. Drew lots of helix's and he couldnt come back
Game 3 went much the same way. I mistakenly discarded a Chalice which I could have cast for 2 which made the game a lot closer than it should have been, but got there.
Final result 3-3
Happy with that. With some more prep I think I could have won the Scales and Ad Naus and made top 8, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I think I will continue to play the deck, even with trophy looming. Changes I foresee making are running gideon and hazoret in the main instead of assemble and batterskull. Sb needs some work.
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Just general attitude to fetches changed too, fewer fetches, more fast lands made the landkill ish variants worse as well, as well as straight up landkill.
2 Gideon Jura
3 Gideon of the Trials
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Anger of the Gods
1 Urza's Ruinous Blast
3 Wrath of God
1 Glorious End
4 Lightning Helix
4 Blood Moon
2 Cast Out
4 Clifftop Retreat
2 Field of Ruin
8 Plains
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Jaya Ballard
1 Lyra Dawnbringer
2 Rest in Peace
1 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
1 Squee, the Immortal
At the moment I think the main form of the deck would need a walker that is specifically red, or RW. In the first case then effectively what is likely to transpire is that the mono Red Chalice prison lists and Skred plus RW here would share such a beast. In the second it would be shared with Jeskai if it is a good control card.
The most hope would for me lie in new tech being printed for the Bridge form of the decks, because they are harder to slip in to the Jeskai control builds that like full hands. RW landkill simply needs the format to go back to fetches in previous numbers, otherwise the main reason to be in W, Suppression Field, becomes pointless when you can ramp into actual t2 landkill in RG.
For the next year there are some good portents. Suppression Field,is one of the few activated ability taxes and is a potentially powerful card in a fetch meta, seeing play in the fringe Soldier Stompy Legacy deck, was originally a Rav block card. Rtr bought Sphere of Safety to the table, beloved of more fringe Enduring Ideal and Pillow Fort builds. Both are taxing cards from Rav themed blocks, it could be there are more on the way.
Recent sets have had attempts at more answer cards aimed at Modern, which is a shift from the days when Stoddard would happily present the latest "fun" threat destined for the banned list. However, most answers aside from Dampening Sphere and perhaps the Blood Sun/Alpine moon at a push have been disappointing.
So there might be something.
One thing I do not expect are good colour hosers. Their recent attempts are still way short of Boil and Scald, let alone Karma, Perish or Gloom. When protection is off the table as being too good, we can't hope to redress the balance in performance compared to I based decks with new goodies aimed at hosing blue mages.
I am marginally more positive than I have been, but honestly expect nothing much.
There a sideboard guide for this?
RW Sun & Moon Competitive League Stream VOD
The decklist I used is shown below:
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Planeswalkers (10):
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
2 Gideon of the Trials
2 Gideon Jura
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Enchantments (6):
4 Blood Moon
2 Cast Out
Artifacts (4):
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Lightning Helix
2 Blessed Alliance
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Wrath of God
Lands (24):
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Clifftop Retreat
4 Arid Mesa
2 Marsh Flats
4 Sacred Foundry
8 Plains
4 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Settle the Wreckage
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Lyra, Dawnbringer
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
Thanks everyone. Hope you enjoy the videos. Deck was awesome. We didn't hit the MUs I was hoping to, but we pulled out with a positive record in the end.
As regards the the board, the only thing that strikes me is 2 Leyline. With 4 you get a 40 pc chance of one in the opener, and the card shines when it is there. If the card is important you need ⁴4, if not then I would say cut it completely and run runed halo as a 2 of.
The format is split between aggro control decks like human and spirits, which are not awful matches, counterspell based board control which is hard, tron which is ok, affinity based decks (there are two archetypes) and some aggressive stuff that acts like combo and can put stupid power on the board, such as hollow one or the new vengevine decks,and good stuff decks as exemplified by mardu pyromancer. There are plenty of others like storm, ironworks combo, scapeshift etc. However, the overwhelming message is rest in peace is golden right now, as is stony silence. I would run 3 of each. I would jeep boil as it us good vs uw control. I think spyglass is probably the easiest cut, it is a reasonable card now but not the powerhouse the others are.
I wish they'd give us a new version of wastelands too. I get that it'd be too good for modern but you could create a near-functional reprint that just requires red mana.
I dont know who decided that land destruction is bad but they were wrong. Land destruction is healthy. It pushes midrange decks away from their insanely small mana-bases, less power, slows a lot of the format down, makes aggro more narrow and specialized, etc...
I won't spoil it except to say it's not our colors, but as far as the effect that it has - I honestly don't understand why the card couldn't be printed in RW. It does a thing that is a mix of red things and white things and it even has a white themed balancing clause. What the hell?
It should've at least required a sacrifice to be in Black.
Sorry to be dancing around it but this looks like it could be a format changer and I'm jealous. I'm sure there'll be plenty of trash Boros anthems though.
Gah!
Karn though. I think Tron is in trouble and that should ripple down through the format.
Card Type: Sorcery
Casting Cost: 1 colorless / 1 red / 1 white
Card Text: Choose one or both —
• Deafening Clarion deals 3 damage to each creature.
• Creatures you control gain lifelink until end of turn.
Rarity: Rare
I love the potential to combine with an attacking Gideon.
I hate it. It's just barely powerful enough to be the Boros rare but not nearly powerful enough to help us. It's not like a lack of lifegain was the missing element keeping Anger of the Gods from dominating the format. It is crap.
Still feels testable to me, but I totally agree that it's not a 4-of and not likely to make a noticeable amount of difference over a small sample of games.
Truefire Captain is definitely not a Lockdown card unfortunately, bit it is a sort of control card. It can trade well against creatures and it can double as a win condition in a Blasphemous Act strategy. You curve through pyroclasm into Boros Reckoner, Spitemare and Truefire Captain. Pyroclasm doubles as an early-turn aggro answer and it also becomes enhanced by the redirect ability. The three creatures are all must-answer - they can't be allowed to stay on the board at all. The concept has a definite weakness to permission and is probably too slow if you try to play it as a combo or aggro but probably doesn't have strong enough answer cards to go control or midrange.
Don't expect much unless you can find at least a few additional synergies but going from 8 copies of a key effect to 12 copies is sometimes significant. For example Bogles ideally wants to have at least 10-11 first-turn hexproof creatures and suffers from only having 8.
Just spinning wheels...
Oh and if I'm not mistaken this would be the one case where Deafening Clarion provides an advantage over other 3 cmc sweepers since Reckoner effects have the creature deal the damage.
Unfortunately I think that this set is probably going to be a giant turd from the perspective of RW Lockdown. If anything I think we might get more help from other decks hating out certain of our bad matchups than from any cards printed in our own colors.
Chance For Glory
maybe run a couple of these and add more gideon of the trials, to exploit Gideon's 'you cannot lose' ability to get Nahiri over the top quickly or swing gideon jura twice with no remorse? Nahiri's clock would become unexpectedly explosive. True, you'd need to be in a bit of 'already winning' re having Gideon and Nahiri out which is a bit 'win more', but even if u didn't have Gideon and his token, in the right scenarios where a single Emrakul swipe was guaranteed to hit for lethal, it still ups the deck's clock immensely.
Am i crayzee?
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Assemble the Legion
1 Batterskull
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Anger of the Gods
1 Sweltering Suns
1 Abrade
4 Lightning Helix
2 Journey to nowhere
4 Chalice of the void
4 Blood Moon
2 Cast Out
4 Arid Mesa
1 Mountain
2 Rugged Prairie
1 Marsh Flats
1 Canyon Slough
7 Plains
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Rest in Peace
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Abrade
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Wrath of God
2 Engineered Explosives
PLayed in my first PPTQ in years today with this list. Didn't expect to do well, but was happy with the results. I realised afterwards that Assemble and Batterkull are very much pet cards so looking to change them to Gideon of the Trails. I've never been a fan of them but it seems everyone is, so there must be something there I'm missing.
I was expecting a lot of burn & storm, with dabblings of affinity. Turned out there was a lot of burn, but not much of the others.
Round 1 - Mill
Yes mill... I was happy at first since its a pretty good matchup. Turns out this guys list was less than typial. I didn't see any crabs or Orbs, and instead saw a bunch of counterspells. He was able to counter/mill most of my threats, and I got pretty landflooded. Game went quite long, but I held on as I was slowly getting him down with a Simian Spirit guide, and had enough burn in hand to finish him off. I didn't draw Emrakul to way late, and didn't have any way to discard him, even if I discarded to handsize there weren't enough cards left in my libary. He was able to land Ensnaring bride, and I didnt have enough burn to finish the job
The second game we didn't have much time for, I manage to tick up a Nahiri pretty quick, and he had a bridge in play. I felt the game slipping away as he resolved a second bridge. I had cast out in hand, and a Nahiri at the ready. I cast out one of them, and just needed to draw abrade. Sadly the Abrade didnt come till the following turn, but by then he had counterspells up
Round 2 - Mill
Yep, seriously. Mill again. I got to play the only 2 mill decks back to back. Thankfully this one was traditional mill. He extracted by Emrakul and Nahiri but I was able to ult a chandra to finish him off.
Second game I played Leyline on turn zero, and Nahiri turn two. Was over quick
Round 3 - Hardened Scales
I didn't really know what this deck was. Got pretty land flooded but he was able to land a pretty big Arcbound and Hangerback. I was able to Jam an elspeth near the end which I thought saved me. I swung in with an emmy but this just enabled him to blow up his hangerback and swing back for lethal. Not going for emmy would have been lethal as well so I think this game was over either way
Game 2 I don't remember exactly how this game went, other than I lost it. All I recall is my op being able to kill me with an inkmoth nexus if he went all in, but was able to bluff for a few more turns.
Round 4 - Storm
Finally a "normal" deck. I landed an early chalice and was able to keep Baral off the field. Opp drew pretty poorly so I was able to resolve chalice on 1 & 2 to lock him out of the game.
Game 2 he didn't draw much better. I mulled to turn 0 Leyline, and had Anger in hand for his gobbos. He got some pretty bad draws again, and even wiffed on a Pieces of the puzzle. Finished him with Nahiri/emmy
Round 5 - Ad Nauseum
I felt pretty comfortable about this matchup, however somehow I didn't decide correctly after the last round, and my opening hand was 2 leyline and 1 rest in peace. I called a judge on myself, who thankfully only made me mull. I was so tilted the first game I misplayed a bunch and lost it.
Game 2 my opp thought I was on Mardu since I didn't do much first game, so they had sideboarded incorrectly. I was able to chalice him for 0 and leyline him to lock him out of the game.
Game 3 I dont recall exactly what my hand was but I remember mulling to 6 and it was all lands. I think I was over it at this point. Shouldn't have kept. Was able to bluff my way to around turn 8, but lost.
Round 6 - Burn
Ah burn, finally a bye. However I got land flooded in game 1. Some helix's on some GG's kept me around for a while, but too many lands.
Game 2 landed leyline and chalice for 1. Drew lots of helix's and he couldnt come back
Game 3 went much the same way. I mistakenly discarded a Chalice which I could have cast for 2 which made the game a lot closer than it should have been, but got there.
Final result 3-3
Happy with that. With some more prep I think I could have won the Scales and Ad Naus and made top 8, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I think I will continue to play the deck, even with trophy looming. Changes I foresee making are running gideon and hazoret in the main instead of assemble and batterskull. Sb needs some work.