Gideon (or Gideons?) definitely helps the deck, lets you beat face with creatures without getting in your own way re all the sweepers. I feel Batterskull and Fulminator Mage are a bit counter to what the deck is trying to do. And while I do like Timely Reinforcements, i think Assemble The Legion is a bit slow.
Agree on mages and b skulls. Mage needs to be in a real landkill list, and even then most do not use it.
Bskull.... Just can't see it.
ATL is a good card, but probably in a Bridge build.....
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So, not sure how many people are still into this archetype, but I felt like giving it a try. Took it to a local tourney on Monday and went 3-1. Only loss was death shadow and that was a super freak game where I drew dead for about 10 turns G3. Beat boros tron and bridgevine. Here's the list I ran
3 Leyline of sanctity
4 endearing bridge
4 chalice of the void
4 bloodmoon
4 oblivion ring
4 Nahiri, the harbinger
3 Chandra, torch of defiance
1 emrakul
1 blightseel colosus
Nevermore is always a good topdeck from SB for me.... Magus will die to your sweepers, and BM isnt even that strong these days imho. Keep the BM playset, but don't waste your sb with more Magus. Boil i tried but is very narrow, and you'd need to burn a few sb slots if you really want to count on it. Never worked for me but i realize it depends on your local meta a bit.
Sowing Salt...i really just don't know. Could be a game-winner, but by T4 they already have 3-4 lands down, and there's soooo many other cards i'd love to be dropping on t4... I'm not sure I could justify it.
Porphry Nodes...now that's just dead sexy, right there. How has it worked for you? How often do you board it in?
The nodes can be a super strong board in. Coming down with it T1 or T2 against spirits, affinity, humans, elves etc it's great. Its gonna smoke a critter and half the time work like a time walk, and buying turns for 1 mana with this deck is all value. Late game vs any of those decks and any midrange ish stuff, its a big problem for them. When they're trying to build lethal and dig for an answer to bridge, a node hitting the boatd is all star. TBH, id love to be able to squeeze a 4th in the board. Any match I bring it in, its all value
Good to hear. I may need to test it. Right now online i'm messing around with two Chance For Glory maindeck for giggles; only played a few games but thus far it's great to have it in hand, but challenging to set up. Will probably get scrapped but gotta test the new tech ;-)
Nodes is hilariously good in Heliod decks that play with enough W permanents. I have seen it in early RW lockdown lists, it rapidly fell from favour as the format crystalised. Conflict with Chalice and an abundance of fast critters in decks like Amulet and Grisselbrand meant that it never took hold.
Very few people take the correct line against it.
One of the nice things is that it can't be cheated with pump effects, the abiliry just hits their other stuff.
What it needs to be better is Orim's Chant type utility cards, sadly no such flexi fog exists in Modern that is in that power level. It can still do stuff, as late as 2015 I played it in tge board, it munched a fair few Nobles even back then...
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Ya the nodes doesnt jive well with chalice but really its often gonna be used like a 1 off creature kill/time walk. That's gonna buy the turn you need to get behind a bridge or get that wrath off. Late game you just trash it to Nahiri. I'm loving it out of the SB. Its giving exactly what's needed against a big weakness
i know Blood Moon isn't the be-all, end-all right now...but running zero of them just seems strange to me.
Also - i'm digging your use of Magus here...but also wondering how effective it is when you yourself are running 9 creatures maindeck? I like it for classic Nahiri that i run, since I'm really just trying to make their critters more costly (upkeep-wise), give myself a blocker, and ensure they are mostly tapped out on my turn so i can drop PWs. It seems like it would be better there, in a deck with few creatures.
Traditionally landkill eschewed moon, it switched on fetches as land sources when they often had nothing to fetch.
The reason landkill is less effective these days is simple, people run fewer fetches that get inhibited by SField. In fact SField has less impact in a few matches than it once did. It was always the dirty secret of the deck, the bit that stole matches.
The rise of fast lands really hurt the deck.
The deck has done well in fetch heavy environs, I can recall lending the deck to a player who top 8d a UK event with 100 odd players with it. I myself took it to a small wmcq semi.
If you are lucky enough to hit the right deck it is still good, but realistically it has hard times against uw control and sometimes even jund, and can be a bit slow against some explosive combos.
I will say thst Temple of triumph has always been the best land in the deck, play 4 for my money every time, over a foundry.
I don't see the need for Dragon's claw either, I think it is by and large redundant in what is a
decent match any way.
Dark dwellers is not so hot now, I would consider running dampening sphere in the board, or an Eidolon of Rhetoric, and Boil at two copies perhaps, cutting Rabblemaster that sucks with Magus.
Rip should be there too, despite the miserable nonbo with Flagstones.
The new set has already given us two cards that we might want to talk about. Thank Orzhov for giving us a black card with no black mana and thank Rakdos for the same thing.
At this point in time RW needs something that makes UWx a winnable match and something to make the deck perform faster against the linear decks without too much disadvantage. The pyro prison lists offee a fair bit. The answers are there for some decks, but selection is still awful.
I just can't see it right now.
I guess given where the meta is I would go all out for E bridge and take my chances....
The new cards are ok, I can't see them being what the deck in any of its forms need.
At this point in time RW needs something that makes UWx a winnable match and something to make the deck perform faster against the linear decks without too much disadvantage. The pyro prison lists offee a fair bit. The answers are there for some decks. but selection is still awful.
I just can't see it right now.
I guess given where the meta is I would go all out for E bridge and take my chances....
The new cards are ok, I can't see them being what the deck in any of its forms need.
So, I run Pyro Prison and was wondering why bridge doesn't see much use in the RW version. I normally just use mom and pop to blow up bridge if I need to, so maybe that would be a good idea to still keep the Emrakul/Nahiri play on.
This is a control deck but it looks a lot like a burn deck and you might be able to flex it into a nearly pure burn deck with a transformative sideboard. Wouldn't that make for an interesting concept? Does your control deck have a bad matchup? No worries. Change 15 cards and now it's a burn deck. Boom.
How it works:
This is a Light up the Stage deck.
Answer every threat with burn until you have mana to support repeating Eternal Scourge, then Eternal Scourge them to death. Includes plenty of delayed direct damage such as Rift Bolt, Seal of Fire, and Implement of Combustion. Again - this is a Light up the Stage deck. It's been designed to turn on the new Spectacle ability. Spectacle gives you an alternate casting cost if the opponent took damage this turn. All of the delayed damage cards are there to support sequencing of plays. Flame Jab too. Although the land count is low, the card draw from Light up the Stage sometimes makes for a bit of a flood.
Earthquake is used over Anger of the Gods because you can scale it up or down depending on how much mana you have available. Sometimes you're better off with a 2cmc play and you can do Earthquake for 1, plus it hits the opponent. I did mess around with Pyrite Spellbomb but I didn't care for the choice between drawing a card or dealing damage. I liked Implement of Combustion better because it turns on Light up the Stage and then it replaces itself. With the way the delayed damage spells accumulate (especially Seal of Fire and Rift Bolt) it's easy to have 6 or more points of floating burn just waiting to be sent at your opponents face.
This is the list I've been rolling with when running RW. Only thing I'd wanna change is maybe the sb molten rains for Crumble to Dust, but I'm still experimenting. Only been on this deck for a little over a week, but it's definitely hella fun. (Also, your opponents don't scoop the match after T1 on MTGO tournament practice unlike a certain other prison deck I run....)
At this point in time RW needs something that makes UWx a winnable match and something to make the deck perform faster against the linear decks without too much disadvantage. The pyro prison lists offee a fair bit. The answers are there for some decks. but selection is still awful.
I just can't see it right now.
I guess given where the meta is I would go all out for E bridge and take my chances....
The new cards are ok, I can't see them being what the deck in any of its forms need.
So, I run Pyro Prison and was wondering why bridge doesn't see much use in the RW version. I normally just use mom and pop to blow up bridge if I need to, so maybe that would be a good idea to still keep the Emrakul/Nahiri play on.
The reason is just Bridge/Emmy nonbos.
I personally favour bridge, it can allow you to play Spirit Guides and profit in an attempt to benefit by being hellbent, it can protect PWs I guess K command and abrade are more common now though.
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At this point in time RW needs something that makes UWx a winnable match and something to make the deck perform faster against the linear decks without too much disadvantage. The pyro prison lists offee a fair bit. The answers are there for some decks. but selection is still awful.
I just can't see it right now.
I guess given where the meta is I would go all out for E bridge and take my chances....
The new cards are ok, I can't see them being what the deck in any of its forms need.
So, I run Pyro Prison and was wondering why bridge doesn't see much use in the RW version. I normally just use mom and pop to blow up bridge if I need to, so maybe that would be a good idea to still keep the Emrakul/Nahiri play on.
The reason is just Bridge/Emmy nonbos.
I personally favour bridge, it can allow you to play Spirit Guides and profit in an attempt to benefit by being hellbent, it can protect PWs I guess K command and abrade are more common now though.
Yeah, bridge is one of the heroes of my Pyro Prison list. That said, you play out your hand a LOT faster than RW from the little I've played. For example, and by no means a common play, I've been able to get Chandra out on t1 and uptick for mana and a Chalice before the opponent has a chance to do anything. They usually scoop lol. Aside from that, I've beaten Phoenix a fair percentage of the time by laying down a bridge and accelerating a Chalice on 2 to stop abrade.
Edit: What other card can win you a game against a resolved liliana, the last hope emblem and 5k+ tokens
My answer to the fact that Emrakul is a nonbo is to replace her with Griselbrand. Nahiri is a phenomenal filter/control PW and getting an incidental Griselbrand is just icing. In games where my Bridge is useless I board in Emrakul and swap Bridge as necessary.
But the big piece that I think helps the most: Karn, Scion of Urza. If you're churning out UrzaVoice tokens like crazy, the opponent blowing up the Bridge becomes a liability for them. As a bonus it gives us more control since we can manipulate our hand size to allow our stuff to attack.
I've had moderate success but I haven't tested the deck in its current incarnation where I went from 2 to 4 Karn. I'll report back when I've had more playtime on this list.
a question as you do once you drop it with nahiri, how do you lower it again if you discard it and do not shuffle like emrakul?
I am testing with hellrider that with the goblins it interacts very well and 1 koth of base.
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Gideon (or Gideons?) definitely helps the deck, lets you beat face with creatures without getting in your own way re all the sweepers. I feel Batterskull and Fulminator Mage are a bit counter to what the deck is trying to do. And while I do like Timely Reinforcements, i think Assemble The Legion is a bit slow.
My $0.02 only.
Bskull.... Just can't see it.
ATL is a good card, but probably in a Bridge build.....
3 Leyline of sanctity
4 endearing bridge
4 chalice of the void
4 bloodmoon
4 oblivion ring
4 Nahiri, the harbinger
3 Chandra, torch of defiance
1 emrakul
1 blightseel colosus
4 wrath of god
4 simian spirit guide
3 gemstone caverns
4 aerid mesa
4 sacred foundry
3 rugged prairie
10 plains
SB
3 Porphry nodes
1 leyline of sanctity
4 defense grid
4 pitching needle
3 Boris charm (indestructible mode)
Board cards I'm toying with
Sowing salt
Boil
Magus of the moon
Nevermore
Sowing Salt...i really just don't know. Could be a game-winner, but by T4 they already have 3-4 lands down, and there's soooo many other cards i'd love to be dropping on t4... I'm not sure I could justify it.
Porphry Nodes...now that's just dead sexy, right there. How has it worked for you? How often do you board it in?
Very few people take the correct line against it.
One of the nice things is that it can't be cheated with pump effects, the abiliry just hits their other stuff.
What it needs to be better is Orim's Chant type utility cards, sadly no such flexi fog exists in Modern that is in that power level. It can still do stuff, as late as 2015 I played it in tge board, it munched a fair few Nobles even back then...
Also - i'm digging your use of Magus here...but also wondering how effective it is when you yourself are running 9 creatures maindeck? I like it for classic Nahiri that i run, since I'm really just trying to make their critters more costly (upkeep-wise), give myself a blocker, and ensure they are mostly tapped out on my turn so i can drop PWs. It seems like it would be better there, in a deck with few creatures.
The reason landkill is less effective these days is simple, people run fewer fetches that get inhibited by SField. In fact SField has less impact in a few matches than it once did. It was always the dirty secret of the deck, the bit that stole matches.
The rise of fast lands really hurt the deck.
The deck has done well in fetch heavy environs, I can recall lending the deck to a player who top 8d a UK event with 100 odd players with it. I myself took it to a small wmcq semi.
If you are lucky enough to hit the right deck it is still good, but realistically it has hard times against uw control and sometimes even jund, and can be a bit slow against some explosive combos.
I will say thst Temple of triumph has always been the best land in the deck, play 4 for my money every time, over a foundry.
I don't see the need for Dragon's claw either, I think it is by and large redundant in what is a
decent match any way.
Dark dwellers is not so hot now, I would consider running dampening sphere in the board, or an Eidolon of Rhetoric, and Boil at two copies perhaps, cutting Rabblemaster that sucks with Magus.
Rip should be there too, despite the miserable nonbo with Flagstones.
Light the Stage and Tithe Taker
I just can't see it right now.
I guess given where the meta is I would go all out for E bridge and take my chances....
The new cards are ok, I can't see them being what the deck in any of its forms need.
So, I run Pyro Prison and was wondering why bridge doesn't see much use in the RW version. I normally just use mom and pop to blow up bridge if I need to, so maybe that would be a good idea to still keep the Emrakul/Nahiri play on.
Modern:
This is a control deck but it looks a lot like a burn deck and you might be able to flex it into a nearly pure burn deck with a transformative sideboard. Wouldn't that make for an interesting concept? Does your control deck have a bad matchup? No worries. Change 15 cards and now it's a burn deck. Boom.
3x Eternal Scourge
Enchantments
4x Seal of Fire
1x Molten Vortex
Sorceries
4x Rift Bolt
4x Light up the Stage
3x Earthquake
2x Flame Jab
3x Lightning Helix
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Path to Exile
Artifact
3x Relic of Progenitus
4x Implement of Combustion
4x Arid Mesa
3x Inspiring Vantage
9x Mountain
5x Plains
How it works:
This is a Light up the Stage deck.
Answer every threat with burn until you have mana to support repeating Eternal Scourge, then Eternal Scourge them to death. Includes plenty of delayed direct damage such as Rift Bolt, Seal of Fire, and Implement of Combustion. Again - this is a Light up the Stage deck. It's been designed to turn on the new Spectacle ability. Spectacle gives you an alternate casting cost if the opponent took damage this turn. All of the delayed damage cards are there to support sequencing of plays. Flame Jab too. Although the land count is low, the card draw from Light up the Stage sometimes makes for a bit of a flood.
Earthquake is used over Anger of the Gods because you can scale it up or down depending on how much mana you have available. Sometimes you're better off with a 2cmc play and you can do Earthquake for 1, plus it hits the opponent. I did mess around with Pyrite Spellbomb but I didn't care for the choice between drawing a card or dealing damage. I liked Implement of Combustion better because it turns on Light up the Stage and then it replaces itself. With the way the delayed damage spells accumulate (especially Seal of Fire and Rift Bolt) it's easy to have 6 or more points of floating burn just waiting to be sent at your opponents face.
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4x Wall of Omens
4x Simian Spirit Guide
Enchantments (4)
4x Blood Moon
Sorceries (6)
4x Anger of the Gods
2x Wrath of God
Instants (6)
4x Lightning Helix
2x Tormenting Voice
Artifact (4)
4x Chalice of the Void
Planeswalkers (8)
1x Ajani Vengeant
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4x Nahiri, the Harbinger
4x Arid Mesa
2x Flooded Strand
3x Rugged Prairie
4x Temple of Triumph
2x Sacred Foundry
2x Mountain
6x Plains
4x Stone Rain
2x Molten Rain
2x Stony Silence
2x Rest in Peace
2x Blessed Alliance
2x Day of Judgment
1x Sorcerous Spyglass
Modern:
The reason is just Bridge/Emmy nonbos.
I personally favour bridge, it can allow you to play Spirit Guides and profit in an attempt to benefit by being hellbent, it can protect PWs I guess K command and abrade are more common now though.
Yeah, bridge is one of the heroes of my Pyro Prison list. That said, you play out your hand a LOT faster than RW from the little I've played. For example, and by no means a common play, I've been able to get Chandra out on t1 and uptick for mana and a Chalice before the opponent has a chance to do anything. They usually scoop lol. Aside from that, I've beaten Phoenix a fair percentage of the time by laying down a bridge and accelerating a Chalice on 2 to stop abrade.
Edit: What other card can win you a game against a resolved liliana, the last hope emblem and 5k+ tokens
Modern:
4x Arid Mesa
2x Field of Ruin
1x Gemstone Caverns
2x Mountain
2x Needle Spires
5x Plains
3x Rugged Prairie
1x Sacred Foundry
3x Temple of Triumph
Sorceries
2x Anger of the Gods
Planeswalkers
3x Ajani Vengeant
3x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
4x Karn, Scion of Urza
3x Nahiri, the Harbinger
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Heart of Kiran
Enchantments
4x Blood Moon
2x Cast Out
Creatures
1x Griselbrand
4x Simian Spirit Guide
1x Squee, the Immortal
2x Boil
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Rest in Peace
2x Sorcerous Spyglass
1x Spellskite
3x Stony Silence
My answer to the fact that Emrakul is a nonbo is to replace her with Griselbrand. Nahiri is a phenomenal filter/control PW and getting an incidental Griselbrand is just icing. In games where my Bridge is useless I board in Emrakul and swap Bridge as necessary.
But the big piece that I think helps the most: Karn, Scion of Urza. If you're churning out UrzaVoice tokens like crazy, the opponent blowing up the Bridge becomes a liability for them. As a bonus it gives us more control since we can manipulate our hand size to allow our stuff to attack.
I've had moderate success but I haven't tested the deck in its current incarnation where I went from 2 to 4 Karn. I'll report back when I've had more playtime on this list.
a question as you do once you drop it with nahiri, how do you lower it again if you discard it and do not shuffle like emrakul?
I am testing with hellrider that with the goblins it interacts very well and 1 koth of base.