I love Karn, the Great Creator. It almost feels like it was designed for this deck. The problem I'm running into is the Sideboard. With all the wish targets that are being currently run, it is hard to take out "dead" cards game 2. Has anyone had success walking this new tight rope we have? Does it not matter because Karn is so good? Thanks!
P.S. I finished 5-3 losing to Jund, The Rock and U/W Control in the Syracuse Modern Classic.
New Goblin card that can help us grab any of our prison artifacts.
Thoughts?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern - Pyro Prison
Modern - GW Tron
Modern - Mono G Tron
Modern - RWg Burn
Commander - Yisan, The Wanderer Bard cEDH build
Commander - Edric, Spymaster of Trest - Budget/Casual list - complete
Commander - Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis - $35 Budget upgrade
Commander - Edgar Markov - $150 upgrade
Had a turn 2 Goblin Rabblemaster followed by turn 3 Blood Moon practicing against Tron today and lost game 1. Had me a little salty. He killed the Rabblemaster with a Walking Ballista x=2 and then didn't miss any land drops so he started hard casting Wurmcoil Engine and Karn Liberated. Never was able to recover from there.
Didn't make any changes and followed it up with a turn 1 Rabblemaster in game 2 and killed him before he could do anything.
Draw my 7 for game 3 and I see that I have turn 1 Rabblemaster again... what are the odds? Very decidedly took game 3 the same way game 2 went.
Been watching you guys on Discord and have been impressed with the results. I have been considering Damping Sphere over Welding Jar in the board but when Ensnaring Bridge is one Kolaghan's Command away from you losing the game, Welding Jar looks like a nice option. Damping Sphere doesn't feel like it does anything against Storm/Phoenix that Trinisphere doesn't already do and we are already really well positioned against Tron so I just don't know if it is worth a slot. This is the list I have settled with lately: RDragon Stompy
This was the Tron list we were practicing with: GTron
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My current modern paper decks with current match records since 02/01/17:
Pyro Prison - 164 pages and nearly a 1/4 million views. To be archived for future views, but no longer can we add wisdom to the campfire gathering.
It's a sad day for the whole community. I know so many of us have benefited from the collective game enrichment and fellowship here at MTGsalvation.
Wow. We lost a titan today. The good news is that our sister site, Discord - Pyro Prison Channel, is growing and becoming more refined with each day due to the noteworthy efforts of our Veterans.
Pyro Prison - Goblinized Mono-Red Control || The Sideboard Deck
Perhaps our greatest achievement was becoming the 73rd deck in all of competitive Modern archetypes to be recognized by MTGsalvation as 'ESTABLISHED'. Shortly thereafter, with Fluffywolf's help, I successfully petitioned MTGtop8 to also use the name Pyro Prison. Starcitygames and Channelfireball later followed suit. We are now legal tender, mountainfolk.
We'll continue on until July 8th, kin. I'll constantly update my premier decklists for 'Classic' and 'Karn' at the bottom of the Official Primer (I'm particularly pleased with my Karn list right now). Special petition: if anyone sees or intuits a winning list for Rakdos Karn Pyro Prison, I'd love to see it. And, all thoughts about Pyro Prison past and present are encouraged to be shared in these final weeks.
Good News: the Discord Channel is thriving and becoming more refined every week under the leadership of Fluffywolf and Cashewlol with a panel of moderators soon to be announced - maybe you'll recognize at least 1 face The Discord Channel has some real advantages with the real-time interactivity in conversation. If you haven't yet, join in. The place is positively electric with ideas and enthusiasm and best of all: Winning Reports!
If you're ever feeling nostalgic or looking for a spark of inspiration in the coming years, flip through some of these old pages. Thar' be some gold in these hills. Those who have read every page of this thread have told me that it's like reading a novel. Even though you know how it ends, it's fascinating to see the development of the deck - ideas championed or ignored at player's peril or success.
Indeed, the storybook nature is captured brilliantly with the permanence of the writings here. Knowing that one's thoughts were being logged and catalogued for(ever) really inspired the contributors to carefully craft their contributions. For instance, light that fireplace up, lean back in your chair, and flip back a few pages in this storybook to 2016...
GREATEST HITS
Here's One: A fan fiction tale of Pyro Prison that blends a tournament report with the storyline of Star Trek II the movie:
The Wrath of Koth
THE FINAL CHAPTER
I don't have the words...heh, you all know that's not true - with this being the 3,456th post - but let's just say that words can't say enough. Yeah, that's it - Words can't say enough. So, huzzah & hearty backslaps to all. It may only be a game, but we did something special here. And now? The mountain path continues on a different site. See you around the next rising ridge.
Soon, we say goodbye to MTGSalvation, and along with it, this thread. Over 2 years ago, I stumbled onto this thread while looking for a new modern deck. I had always thought "Free Win Red" was a cool deck, but I thought it was missing something (keep in mind, the original FWR did not include Chalice), and I didn't want to invest in a deck and hate it. When I found this thread, I found what I was missing. Goblin Rabblemaster. Raystack had the beginnings of something great, and I knew it. Very few of us did at the time, but I believed. I bought into the deck a week later and I haven't strayed since. Raystack and the community was the reason I stayed with it through the hard times, and the times got much, much better!
A while into playing the deck, we got Chandra, Torch of Defiance. We tested, and debated, and tested some more until we had a list that we thought could compete. It was around then that we had a vote on what we would call the deck, and because of the decks two halves, aggro and prison, I suggested the name Pyro Prison, and it stuck. Our small group of players began to put up results, and when Ray took down a 1k, more people started noticing.. started believing.
One of those people was Stickballruss, who took notice of Ray's 1k performance. He tuned the list, using previous successful lists as inspiration, that would become known as the stock, or classic list. He took that list to back to back top 8s in SCG classics. The word was out, and people started flooding in. The power of the core 50 was now obvious to those willing to consider prison a viable archetype in modern.
Around that time, a savvy contributor asked if anyone would have interest in watching him stream Pyro Prison on Twitch. We were very interested! Fluffywolf2 began streaming Pyro Prison on a regular basis, and as he learned the deck, even the most experienced of us learned along with him. Fluffy's stream has proven to be the most valuable learning tool we've had in our community, because as it turns out, Fluffy happens to be one of the best streamers out there. When someone wants to learn the lines of play or how to sideboard, the first thing I do is recommend his stream. He's our secret weapon, and in my opinion, not only our biggest ambassador, bringing in a whole new group of players, but our best player as well.
All of this has culminated in countless tournament wins, top 8s, 5-0 trophies and more, from not just our ever growing community, but from players who saw the success of the community and picked up the deck. We've seen the deck top 8 tournaments in multiple countries by a multitude of names. Red Prison is firmly on the modern radar, and our brand, Pyro Prison is recognized all over the internet. None of this is possible without MTGSalvation. This is where it started in its crudest form, and evolved through hours and hours and years of dedication by a hivemind that is unlike any other community in magic. We have Ray to thank for it.
Recent days have been slower here with the community moving over to discord, but the hivemind is stronger than ever, and so is the deck. You have to get lucky to get a 5-0 list published with the amount of people winning with the deck, in fact, only 1 of my 4 5-0s got published this month. This is a great sign. The deck is doing big things, and they're only getting bigger. We lose MTGSalvation, but we continue on our quest to break modern! If you haven't joined already, come on over to the discord and continue this journey with us, Mountainfolk! Hope to see you there!
Seasoned Pyromancer is the new deal. I believe that development at Wizards of the Coast specifically crafted him for Pyro Prison. He works on so many obvious levels, but I have to mention that I recently had a 1-lander starting hand with a simian and a ritual in hand. I kept the hand, and cast out the S.P.
Sure enough, I land 3 creatures, cycle away 2 dead-ish cards, and draw into a critical land. There will be more examples - similar examples - of this to come.
Seasoned Pyromancer is the best thing to happen to Pyro Prison since Chandra, Torch of Defiance.
I know that 8-Rabble is the crowd favorite right now, but I think that The Spicemaster (still looking for that cool new nickname :laughing: ) has unseated numbers 4-8. The Aggro Pyro Prison has been winning for @Zarukai @Muddy15 and others - understood. But, Pyro Prison has long rotated varying players in the 'supplementary aggressive win-con roles', and none have earned a coveted spot in the lineup of the "The Core 50" - must haves.
Kargan Dragonlord - Eidolon of the Great Revel - Scab-Clan Berserker - Avaricious Dragon - Pia and Kiran Nalaar....and most recently: Legion Warboss.
First, I like 8-Rabble. I play 8-Rabble. And, I think it works, but only when paired with Eidolon of the Great Revel in the (75). Why? Because, attempting to swarm attack with (8) 3-cmc Creatures is not a reliable and threatening game plan.
VS. creature decks, they are faster than you are. You can not hope to overwhelm with a comparatively slower construction.
VS. control/combo decks, they are better prepared for you, because they are already prepared for faster creature decks.
Thus, the addition of Eidolon smooths the ramp, doubles as block/removal, and punishes spell-heavy deck. It's a simple matter of threat density.
Alrighty, so why is 8-Rabble winning then? I believe that It is not the actual 8-Rabble that is winning. Nor were any of the other creatures of whom I listed above 'winning' during their days of use. They held the spotlight for a while, and were reasonably serviceable - just like Legion Warboss is today. What has always won is the 'Power Lock Suite' - Chalice/Bridge/Moon.
Find the right lock, and deploy it as quickly as possible. Period. The win will come later. Skeptics will claim, 'What about the times that I slammed a turn 1 Rabblemaster and drove it all the way to victory?' My mountain friend, that win is entirely predicated upon an opponent's stumble in the early game. This is what some might call a 'stolen win'. Don't get me wrong, that win is 100% earned and legitimate. It probably occurred against Tron or Ad Nauseam, and I say **** those guys. If they are so greedy that they believe that 3 turns of total inactivity is acceptable, then they deserve to lose. But. Let's be honest, we got lucky.
Seasoned Pyromancer gives us the ability to better face down 'Creature Decks' and 'Control/Combo' decks - when paired with (4) Eidolons in the sideboard. Step aside Warboss.
Against creature: Warboss will spit out a 1/1 that will run into a larger creature and die immediately. Then Warboss will get knocked dead in a desperation block on the swing back from an opponent's hoard which is superior. Very Common occurrence.
BUT, with Pyromancer, I get 3 blockers that do not have to attack, AND I get to dig 2 cards deep looking for what will actually win in this matchup: 'Power Lock Suite'. Later after the Pyromancer has died defending his mountain home on a blocking play, I ship him off to Valhalla in an exile casting of Lingering Souls - creating 2 more blockers. COMPARISON: Legion Warboss was a 1-for-1 play under the worst circumstances. Seasoned Pyromancer was a 7-for-1 play under the best circumstances. Yes: SEVEN for ONE.
Against Control/Combo Admittedly, Legion Warboss may be a better option here - in some circumstances. But, certainly not most. How do we win this matchup? Like all properly won matchups on the back of the 'Power Lock Suite'. Take the word proper for what it's worth. Point being that against Combo, we need to find the right Lock as soon as possible, if it's not in our starting 7. Pyromancer provides the dig. Against Control, we need threat density, and the ability to rummage away dead/redundant spells in hand OR (if hellbent) draw 2 cards for free.
Seasoned Pyromancer might be the BEST red creature ever printed.
Lotta success out there with varying Pyro Prison builds. Below is my most recent decklist, and it is a synthesis of allllll of those builds.
You all recall the recent schisms experienced betwixt the elders?
*Seasoned Pyromancer*
Some were backing the up-and-coming new spice: Seasoned Pyromancer and Some saw him as under-powered utility creature bested by the current champ Legion Warboss. There was no common ground.
And, who can forget the previous Yoko Ono mere months old now? *Karn, The Great Creator*.
Some struck silve…Err, gold with immediate success: Fluffy’s 19-1 and Caligula’s 10-0. Tool Box style Prison never had it so good. Chandras were shuffled aside and sideboards became wishboards. Some kept the spitfire as a 4-of alongside rattling goblin guns. Again, there’s very little common ground.
As Braveheart once shouted, “Unite the Clans!”
Taking inspiration from my current non-Karn, traditional STOCK LIST variant of Pyro Prison, *Maximum* -- my most up to date list can always be found in MTGsalvation - Official Primer on the bottom of the post 1 (at least until July 8th) -- It’s called Maximum, because it uses all of the tools on the Pyro Prison carousel. Similarly, the new deck balances threat/control/utility (not a whole lot of 4-ofs).
So, in my Stock variant, I split Eidolons between the MD and SB – I run only 2 Warboss – Mid-range cards like Pia and Kiran & Hazoret & Walking Ballista are MD. Basically, in the new deck, all I have done is add Karn, Seasoned Pyromancer, and beefed up the silver bullet count in the sideboard – kind of elementary, really.
Seasoned Pyromancer, like a fine rug, ties this whole deck together, dudes. Not so much that a single Warboss is without necessity for aggression. The 4-of counts are shaved down into manageable complements that aren’t redundant and answers are now accessible from the wishboard.
Attempting to solve the original conundrum…..
As I wrote earlier, the 'off-axis' shift of executing an 8-Rabble assault into a skidding, red light stop: casting a 4-cmc Planeswalker who doesn’t impact the board, and ultimately wins with a 6-cmc artifact? The tactic seems counterproductive. But, the design is surprisingly effective: EITHER win with a swarm or exhaust your opponent's resources, and then win with a 'wished out' lock. Of course, there are times where an early-mid game explosive move into a timely traditional power lock against your opponent might be just enough to shut them down.
NOW, I’m laying off the gas a little. 5-Rabble and the remaining 3 slots are filled by The Sauceman.
Will this unite the clans? Well, I ask you: what better food to bring everyone to the table than….pizza?
I put up the 1st Comprehensive Sideboard Guide ever for Pyro Prison. I always was stubborn about that kind of thing – people should learn the sense of correct swaps, not be instructed. Also, this is the 1st time the codified “Stock List” of Pyro Prison was set in stone (again, this sideboard guide kind of made it official) – November 8th, 2017
The Mountainfolk elders for the first time collectively start buzzing (Russ, Fluffy, Caligula & Raystack) as Russ charges into (2) Top-8 in fields of over 300 people. November 29th, 2017. NOTE: #771 begins the most in-depth tournament report ever.
After this? With a solid foundation of a ‘Core Deck’ and experienced minds to enhance it, the refining continued with each meta shift and saucy, new card being printed. Give it a read, and now you know the highlights of the history. The rest is…..history?
Once MTGsalvation (my baby) got seemingly shut down, I took the opportunity to take a vacation. Packed up my things and went into seclusion on the far side of the mountain about 6 weeks ago. I did continue to independently develop my PYRO PRISON decks online, and develop my Rakdos PYRO PRISON decks at my LGS, but did not read any Discord postings. All the while, I have been anxiously looking forward to the date when I'd read up on the missed posts, and see what the kinfolk have developed.
As for Mono-Red Pyro Prison, hold tight - my decklist will soon be posted. NOTE: my decks are already 'pre-designed' for the bannings. Strategically observing the meta, with Modern becoming so linear and accelerated, I shrewdly decided to ALREADY abandon winning contingencies (both MD and SB) against the single most winning strategy of the day: Hogaak. Punt. Defeating graveyard strategies is too demanding and narrow. I opted to focus on broad-based 'fair' strategies with the hope that Hogaak (and F. Looting) would soon be banned. Uh, SUCCESS! Nevertheless, this scorched earth tactic really stung. Why?
Until recently, Pyro Prison has been able to manage all competitive decks with attrition based soft-lock methods of winning. But, that changed months ago. Karn builds granted us a temporary spike in unprecedented success, but then our win percentages began to tumble. Opposing decks got optimized and began operating at Legacy-Like speed and efficiency. Modern went turbo with singular focus constructions. We tried to compensate, but it was a darker time for us. Happens. Like any archetypal deck, this is a natural pattern: Ups and Downs.
For reference to my claim, look at the data. Fluffy nailed a 15-0 record upon Karn, the Great Creator's release (Caligula inspired deck idea) and Russ and I screwed down somewhere around a 5 count of 5-0s in the preceding tournament season. Our MTGtop8 numbers have held constant, but I believe that's a result of increased numbers of players running Pyro Prison.
To wrap for now - apparently MTGsalvation is still alive, so I will cross post - I will put up my Rakdos Pyro Prison decklist below (in short time). Yes, you are reading that correctly: 2 Master of Cruelties. Essentially, I believe this deck would be a house with a huge back porch 1-2 years ago, but now it's getting outpaced on the track. My record in limited data contests is about 60%. However, maybe that all changes for the better with the new banning.
This deck began with an iteration named 'Dark Master' some months ago by another player, and I have been ceaselessly refining it since. It's essentially a 'fair' deck with devilishly 'unfair' underpinnings. Analysis:
Lands. Pretty straightforward.
Sideboard. (4) Leyline of the Void will likely be the only change seen in today's post-ban meta AND that's only if Dredge doesn't do as anticipated. Otherwise, toolbox of 1-ofs.
Locks. No surprises here.
Creatures. 5 Rabble - 2 Sauceman - aaaaaaaaaand, 2 Master. The master is the most underrated son-of-a-***** out there. A Bridge and a Game Ender.
Removal Collective Brutality's ability to adapt is unmatched and Damnation makes Anger of the Gods look like a joke. Dreadbore is a titan on its own terms. Engineered Explosives? Here's a hoot. A friend fanned through the deck, and said it looks good. The only recommendation: more EE.
Acceleration No Hot Air. Just Monkeys.
Current Deck - This is *after* I tried a variant with (4) Phyrexian Revoker in the main deck! 8 Rabble bolstered by Eidolons/Pizzamen and strangely enough NO bridges as just a singleton got moved to the sideboard - to be wishfetched by the (4) Karn in the mainboard. Honestly, this deck isn't doing as well as I'd hope, but it's as best as I can muster in this meta.
I’ve been having good success on mtgo with a full suit of EotGR and Harsh Mentor. I view Pyro Prison to be more like Stax where everything you do hurts.
And I thought MTG Salvation was supposed to die?! What happened?!
I was trying to force a 4th-Wall lock with Phyrexian Revoker in the main as a 4-of, but it wasn't all that successful. But, the Mentor is a Revoker-of-sorts with the added shock value to ALL activated abilities (except mana and planeswalkers). And, Eidolon is also an antagonistic little son of a *****. I'd like to see your decklist!
P.S. I finished 5-3 losing to Jund, The Rock and U/W Control in the Syracuse Modern Classic.
https://preview.redd.it/jyz6g3rmlqz21.png?auto=webp&s=950c862b7fa399c6e3497ea5f9fd855ff9d84b7c
New Goblin card that can help us grab any of our prison artifacts.
Thoughts?
Modern - GW Tron
Modern - Mono G Tron
Modern - RWg Burn
Commander - Yisan, The Wanderer Bard cEDH build
Commander - Edric, Spymaster of Trest - Budget/Casual list - complete
Commander - Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis - $35 Budget upgrade
Commander - Edgar Markov - $150 upgrade
Didn't make any changes and followed it up with a turn 1 Rabblemaster in game 2 and killed him before he could do anything.
Draw my 7 for game 3 and I see that I have turn 1 Rabblemaster again... what are the odds? Very decidedly took game 3 the same way game 2 went.
Been watching you guys on Discord and have been impressed with the results. I have been considering Damping Sphere over Welding Jar in the board but when Ensnaring Bridge is one Kolaghan's Command away from you losing the game, Welding Jar looks like a nice option. Damping Sphere doesn't feel like it does anything against Storm/Phoenix that Trinisphere doesn't already do and we are already really well positioned against Tron so I just don't know if it is worth a slot. This is the list I have settled with lately: R Dragon Stompy
This was the Tron list we were practicing with: G Tron
Dragon Stompy - R 11-6-0
Ponza - RG 8-4-0
Tron - BG 1-2-0
Naya Burn - WRG 2-4-0
Spirits - UW2-2-0
Dragons - R
The end of MTGsalvation.
To Conclude on July 8th
Pyro Prison - 164 pages and nearly a 1/4 million views. To be archived for future views, but no longer can we add wisdom to the campfire gathering.
It's a sad day for the whole community. I know so many of us have benefited from the collective game enrichment and fellowship here at MTGsalvation.
Wow. We lost a titan today. The good news is that our sister site, Discord - Pyro Prison Channel, is growing and becoming more refined with each day due to the noteworthy efforts of our Veterans.
Pyro Prison - Goblinized Mono-Red Control || The Sideboard Deck
Perhaps our greatest achievement was becoming the 73rd deck in all of competitive Modern archetypes to be recognized by MTGsalvation as 'ESTABLISHED'. Shortly thereafter, with Fluffywolf's help, I successfully petitioned MTGtop8 to also use the name Pyro Prison. Starcitygames and Channelfireball later followed suit. We are now legal tender, mountainfolk.
We'll continue on until July 8th, kin. I'll constantly update my premier decklists for 'Classic' and 'Karn' at the bottom of the Official Primer (I'm particularly pleased with my Karn list right now). Special petition: if anyone sees or intuits a winning list for Rakdos Karn Pyro Prison, I'd love to see it. And, all thoughts about Pyro Prison past and present are encouraged to be shared in these final weeks.
Good News: the Discord Channel is thriving and becoming more refined every week under the leadership of Fluffywolf and Cashewlol with a panel of moderators soon to be announced - maybe you'll recognize at least 1 face The Discord Channel has some real advantages with the real-time interactivity in conversation. If you haven't yet, join in. The place is positively electric with ideas and enthusiasm and best of all: Winning Reports!
If you're ever feeling nostalgic or looking for a spark of inspiration in the coming years, flip through some of these old pages. Thar' be some gold in these hills. Those who have read every page of this thread have told me that it's like reading a novel. Even though you know how it ends, it's fascinating to see the development of the deck - ideas championed or ignored at player's peril or success.
Indeed, the storybook nature is captured brilliantly with the permanence of the writings here. Knowing that one's thoughts were being logged and catalogued for(ever) really inspired the contributors to carefully craft their contributions. For instance, light that fireplace up, lean back in your chair, and flip back a few pages in this storybook to 2016...
GREATEST HITS
Here's One: A fan fiction tale of Pyro Prison that blends a tournament report with the storyline of Star Trek II the movie:
The Wrath of Koth
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/control/663335-pyro-prison-goblinized-mono-red-control-the?comment=2819
THE FINAL CHAPTER
I don't have the words...heh, you all know that's not true - with this being the 3,456th post - but let's just say that words can't say enough. Yeah, that's it - Words can't say enough. So, huzzah & hearty backslaps to all. It may only be a game, but we did something special here. And now? The mountain path continues on a different site. See you around the next rising ridge.
-Raystack
Ray Karkman
A while into playing the deck, we got Chandra, Torch of Defiance. We tested, and debated, and tested some more until we had a list that we thought could compete. It was around then that we had a vote on what we would call the deck, and because of the decks two halves, aggro and prison, I suggested the name Pyro Prison, and it stuck. Our small group of players began to put up results, and when Ray took down a 1k, more people started noticing.. started believing.
One of those people was Stickballruss, who took notice of Ray's 1k performance. He tuned the list, using previous successful lists as inspiration, that would become known as the stock, or classic list. He took that list to back to back top 8s in SCG classics. The word was out, and people started flooding in. The power of the core 50 was now obvious to those willing to consider prison a viable archetype in modern.
Around that time, a savvy contributor asked if anyone would have interest in watching him stream Pyro Prison on Twitch. We were very interested! Fluffywolf2 began streaming Pyro Prison on a regular basis, and as he learned the deck, even the most experienced of us learned along with him. Fluffy's stream has proven to be the most valuable learning tool we've had in our community, because as it turns out, Fluffy happens to be one of the best streamers out there. When someone wants to learn the lines of play or how to sideboard, the first thing I do is recommend his stream. He's our secret weapon, and in my opinion, not only our biggest ambassador, bringing in a whole new group of players, but our best player as well.
All of this has culminated in countless tournament wins, top 8s, 5-0 trophies and more, from not just our ever growing community, but from players who saw the success of the community and picked up the deck. We've seen the deck top 8 tournaments in multiple countries by a multitude of names. Red Prison is firmly on the modern radar, and our brand, Pyro Prison is recognized all over the internet. None of this is possible without MTGSalvation. This is where it started in its crudest form, and evolved through hours and hours and years of dedication by a hivemind that is unlike any other community in magic. We have Ray to thank for it.
Recent days have been slower here with the community moving over to discord, but the hivemind is stronger than ever, and so is the deck. You have to get lucky to get a 5-0 list published with the amount of people winning with the deck, in fact, only 1 of my 4 5-0s got published this month. This is a great sign. The deck is doing big things, and they're only getting bigger. We lose MTGSalvation, but we continue on our quest to break modern! If you haven't joined already, come on over to the discord and continue this journey with us, Mountainfolk! Hope to see you there!
3 Gemstone Caverns
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Pyretic Ritual
LD:
4 Karn, the Great Creator
3 Liquimetal Coating
3 Pillage
4 Abrade
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Ensnaring Bridge
Stuff:
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Slagstorm
Lands:
14 Mountain
2 Zhalfirin Void
2 Mutavault
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Liquimetal Coating
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Torpor Orb
1 Trinisphere
1 Spellskite
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Damping Sphere
1 Pillage
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Ravenous Trap
1 Tormod's Crypt
And don't forget about the fact we can blow up whatever we want to, using coating+pillage/abrade.
flowers shall grow
and I am in them
and that is eternity."
Seasoned Pyromancer is the new deal. I believe that development at Wizards of the Coast specifically crafted him for Pyro Prison. He works on so many obvious levels, but I have to mention that I recently had a 1-lander starting hand with a simian and a ritual in hand. I kept the hand, and cast out the S.P.
Sure enough, I land 3 creatures, cycle away 2 dead-ish cards, and draw into a critical land. There will be more examples - similar examples - of this to come.
Seasoned Pyromancer is the best thing to happen to Pyro Prison since Chandra, Torch of Defiance.
Kargan Dragonlord - Eidolon of the Great Revel - Scab-Clan Berserker - Avaricious Dragon - Pia and Kiran Nalaar....and most recently: Legion Warboss.
First, I like 8-Rabble. I play 8-Rabble. And, I think it works, but only when paired with Eidolon of the Great Revel in the (75). Why? Because, attempting to swarm attack with (8) 3-cmc Creatures is not a reliable and threatening game plan.
VS. creature decks, they are faster than you are. You can not hope to overwhelm with a comparatively slower construction.
VS. control/combo decks, they are better prepared for you, because they are already prepared for faster creature decks.
Thus, the addition of Eidolon smooths the ramp, doubles as block/removal, and punishes spell-heavy deck. It's a simple matter of threat density.
Alrighty, so why is 8-Rabble winning then? I believe that It is not the actual 8-Rabble that is winning. Nor were any of the other creatures of whom I listed above 'winning' during their days of use. They held the spotlight for a while, and were reasonably serviceable - just like Legion Warboss is today. What has always won is the 'Power Lock Suite' - Chalice/Bridge/Moon.
Find the right lock, and deploy it as quickly as possible. Period. The win will come later. Skeptics will claim, 'What about the times that I slammed a turn 1 Rabblemaster and drove it all the way to victory?' My mountain friend, that win is entirely predicated upon an opponent's stumble in the early game. This is what some might call a 'stolen win'. Don't get me wrong, that win is 100% earned and legitimate. It probably occurred against Tron or Ad Nauseam, and I say **** those guys. If they are so greedy that they believe that 3 turns of total inactivity is acceptable, then they deserve to lose. But. Let's be honest, we got lucky.
Seasoned Pyromancer gives us the ability to better face down 'Creature Decks' and 'Control/Combo' decks - when paired with (4) Eidolons in the sideboard. Step aside Warboss.
Against creature: Warboss will spit out a 1/1 that will run into a larger creature and die immediately. Then Warboss will get knocked dead in a desperation block on the swing back from an opponent's hoard which is superior. Very Common occurrence.
BUT, with Pyromancer, I get 3 blockers that do not have to attack, AND I get to dig 2 cards deep looking for what will actually win in this matchup: 'Power Lock Suite'. Later after the Pyromancer has died defending his mountain home on a blocking play, I ship him off to Valhalla in an exile casting of Lingering Souls - creating 2 more blockers. COMPARISON: Legion Warboss was a 1-for-1 play under the worst circumstances. Seasoned Pyromancer was a 7-for-1 play under the best circumstances. Yes: SEVEN for ONE.
Against Control/Combo Admittedly, Legion Warboss may be a better option here - in some circumstances. But, certainly not most. How do we win this matchup? Like all properly won matchups on the back of the 'Power Lock Suite'. Take the word proper for what it's worth. Point being that against Combo, we need to find the right Lock as soon as possible, if it's not in our starting 7. Pyromancer provides the dig. Against Control, we need threat density, and the ability to rummage away dead/redundant spells in hand OR (if hellbent) draw 2 cards for free.
Seasoned Pyromancer might be the BEST red creature ever printed.
You all recall the recent schisms experienced betwixt the elders?
*Seasoned Pyromancer*
Some were backing the up-and-coming new spice: Seasoned Pyromancer and Some saw him as under-powered utility creature bested by the current champ Legion Warboss. There was no common ground.
And, who can forget the previous Yoko Ono mere months old now? *Karn, The Great Creator*.
Some struck silve…Err, gold with immediate success: Fluffy’s 19-1 and Caligula’s 10-0. Tool Box style Prison never had it so good. Chandras were shuffled aside and sideboards became wishboards. Some kept the spitfire as a 4-of alongside rattling goblin guns. Again, there’s very little common ground.
As Braveheart once shouted, “Unite the Clans!”
Taking inspiration from my current non-Karn, traditional STOCK LIST variant of Pyro Prison, *Maximum* -- my most up to date list can always be found in MTGsalvation - Official Primer on the bottom of the post 1 (at least until July 8th) -- It’s called Maximum, because it uses all of the tools on the Pyro Prison carousel. Similarly, the new deck balances threat/control/utility (not a whole lot of 4-ofs).
So, in my Stock variant, I split Eidolons between the MD and SB – I run only 2 Warboss – Mid-range cards like Pia and Kiran & Hazoret & Walking Ballista are MD. Basically, in the new deck, all I have done is add Karn, Seasoned Pyromancer, and beefed up the silver bullet count in the sideboard – kind of elementary, really.
Maximum + Karn/Metal Artifacts =
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
Creatures (11)
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Seasoned Pyromancer
1 Legion Warboss
1 Walking Ballista
2 Eidolon of the Great Revel
Planeswalkers (5)
3 Karn, the Great Creator
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Abrade
1 Slagstorm
Accelerators (9)
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Desperate Ritual
1 Pyretic Ritual
Lands (21)
14 Mountains
3 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ramunap Ruins
3 Ravenous Trap
1 Eidolon of the Great Revel
1 Magus of the Moon
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Torpor Orb
1 Liquimetal Coating
1 Mycosynth Lattice
Seasoned Pyromancer, like a fine rug, ties this whole deck together, dudes. Not so much that a single Warboss is without necessity for aggression. The 4-of counts are shaved down into manageable complements that aren’t redundant and answers are now accessible from the wishboard.
Attempting to solve the original conundrum…..
As I wrote earlier, the 'off-axis' shift of executing an 8-Rabble assault into a skidding, red light stop: casting a 4-cmc Planeswalker who doesn’t impact the board, and ultimately wins with a 6-cmc artifact? The tactic seems counterproductive. But, the design is surprisingly effective: EITHER win with a swarm or exhaust your opponent's resources, and then win with a 'wished out' lock. Of course, there are times where an early-mid game explosive move into a timely traditional power lock against your opponent might be just enough to shut them down.
NOW, I’m laying off the gas a little. 5-Rabble and the remaining 3 slots are filled by The Sauceman.
Will this unite the clans? Well, I ask you: what better food to bring everyone to the table than….pizza?
My final post is a hyperlinked review of the early highlights of Pyro Prison. How did it all begin?
1K report – June 10th, 2017 // 72 Person – Undefeated Day. It begins…..
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/control/663335-pyro-prison-goblinized-mono-red-control-the?comment=386
500 posts on MTGsalvation was Celebrated and a T-Shirt gets made for the ‘Grandaddy of Pyro Prison’
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/control/663335-pyro-prison-goblinized-mono-red-control-the?comment=501
I put up the 1st Comprehensive Sideboard Guide ever for Pyro Prison. I always was stubborn about that kind of thing – people should learn the sense of correct swaps, not be instructed. Also, this is the 1st time the codified “Stock List” of Pyro Prison was set in stone (again, this sideboard guide kind of made it official) – November 8th, 2017
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/control/663335-pyro-prison-goblinized-mono-red-control-the?comment=692
The Mountainfolk elders for the first time collectively start buzzing (Russ, Fluffy, Caligula & Raystack) as Russ charges into (2) Top-8 in fields of over 300 people. November 29th, 2017. NOTE: #771 begins the most in-depth tournament report ever.
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/control/663335-pyro-prison-goblinized-mono-red-control-the?comment=749
After this? With a solid foundation of a ‘Core Deck’ and experienced minds to enhance it, the refining continued with each meta shift and saucy, new card being printed. Give it a read, and now you know the highlights of the history. The rest is…..history?
Once MTGsalvation (my baby) got seemingly shut down, I took the opportunity to take a vacation. Packed up my things and went into seclusion on the far side of the mountain about 6 weeks ago. I did continue to independently develop my PYRO PRISON decks online, and develop my Rakdos PYRO PRISON decks at my LGS, but did not read any Discord postings. All the while, I have been anxiously looking forward to the date when I'd read up on the missed posts, and see what the kinfolk have developed.
As for Mono-Red Pyro Prison, hold tight - my decklist will soon be posted. NOTE: my decks are already 'pre-designed' for the bannings. Strategically observing the meta, with Modern becoming so linear and accelerated, I shrewdly decided to ALREADY abandon winning contingencies (both MD and SB) against the single most winning strategy of the day: Hogaak. Punt. Defeating graveyard strategies is too demanding and narrow. I opted to focus on broad-based 'fair' strategies with the hope that Hogaak (and F. Looting) would soon be banned. Uh, SUCCESS! Nevertheless, this scorched earth tactic really stung. Why?
Until recently, Pyro Prison has been able to manage all competitive decks with attrition based soft-lock methods of winning. But, that changed months ago. Karn builds granted us a temporary spike in unprecedented success, but then our win percentages began to tumble. Opposing decks got optimized and began operating at Legacy-Like speed and efficiency. Modern went turbo with singular focus constructions. We tried to compensate, but it was a darker time for us. Happens. Like any archetypal deck, this is a natural pattern: Ups and Downs.
For reference to my claim, look at the data. Fluffy nailed a 15-0 record upon Karn, the Great Creator's release (Caligula inspired deck idea) and Russ and I screwed down somewhere around a 5 count of 5-0s in the preceding tournament season. Our MTGtop8 numbers have held constant, but I believe that's a result of increased numbers of players running Pyro Prison.
To wrap for now - apparently MTGsalvation is still alive, so I will cross post - I will put up my Rakdos Pyro Prison decklist below (in short time). Yes, you are reading that correctly: 2 Master of Cruelties. Essentially, I believe this deck would be a house with a huge back porch 1-2 years ago, but now it's getting outpaced on the track. My record in limited data contests is about 60%. However, maybe that all changes for the better with the new banning.
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Blood Moon
3 Ensnaring Bridge
--Creatures-- (9)
2 Master of Cruelties
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Legion Warboss
2 Seasoned Pyromancer
--Planeswalkers-- (6)
3 Karn, the Great Creator
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
--Removal-- (8)
4 Collective Brutality
2 Dreadbore
1 Damnation
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Simian Spirit Guides
--Lands-- (22)
7 Swamp
1 Mountain
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Graven Cairns
2 Blood Crypt
2 Dragonskull Summit
2 Polluted Delta
1 Ramunap Ruin
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Torpor Orb
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Damnation
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Leyline of Combustion
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Boil
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Liquimetal Coating
1 Mycosynth Lattice
This deck began with an iteration named 'Dark Master' some months ago by another player, and I have been ceaselessly refining it since. It's essentially a 'fair' deck with devilishly 'unfair' underpinnings. Analysis:
Lands. Pretty straightforward.
Sideboard. (4) Leyline of the Void will likely be the only change seen in today's post-ban meta AND that's only if Dredge doesn't do as anticipated. Otherwise, toolbox of 1-ofs.
Locks. No surprises here.
Creatures. 5 Rabble - 2 Sauceman - aaaaaaaaaand, 2 Master. The master is the most underrated son-of-a-***** out there. A Bridge and a Game Ender.
Removal Collective Brutality's ability to adapt is unmatched and Damnation makes Anger of the Gods look like a joke. Dreadbore is a titan on its own terms. Engineered Explosives? Here's a hoot. A friend fanned through the deck, and said it looks good. The only recommendation: more EE.
Acceleration No Hot Air. Just Monkeys.
KARN PYRO PRISON VARIANT
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
Creatures (13)
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Legion Warboss
2 Seasoned Pyromancer
2 Eidolon of the Great Revel
1 Magus of the Moon
Planeswalkers (5)
4 Karn, the Great Creator
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Desperate Ritual
1 Pyretic Ritual
Lands (22)
11 Mountains
4 Gemstone Caverns
3 Zhalfirin Void
3 Ramunap Ruins
1 Sunbaked Canyon
2 Leyline of Combustion
2 Torpor Orb
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Sweltering Suns
1 Walking Ballista
1 Dismember
1 Abrade
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Liquimetal Coating
1 Mycosynth Lattice
I’ve been having good success on mtgo with a full suit of EotGR and Harsh Mentor. I view Pyro Prison to be more like Stax where everything you do hurts.
And I thought MTG Salvation was supposed to die?! What happened?!
YOUTUBE CHANNEL: GOBOTS
I was trying to force a 4th-Wall lock with Phyrexian Revoker in the main as a 4-of, but it wasn't all that successful. But, the Mentor is a Revoker-of-sorts with the added shock value to ALL activated abilities (except mana and planeswalkers). And, Eidolon is also an antagonistic little son of a *****. I'd like to see your decklist!