yeah i can get behind a split, but tbh id consider it one of those marginal tuning edges (like sub 3-5 percentage points). humans is already attacking from a bunch of angles (caverns, vials, thalias, freebooters) so getting hosed by meddling mage is just one of many things. if the deck were a large enough presence i think a UWx player is better served hitting up a third color in jeskai (or esper i guess). i definitely wouldnt rate it as big a difference compared to something such as verdicts vs. no-verdicts in the GDS matchup; which id consider significant.
moreso i was wondering if including a single terminus is fundamentally sound deckbuilding wise...if that makes any sense. that or if anyone has done the same and has any opinions on the cards performance. looks like you are already doing it, so that is some confirmation at least lol.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Dovin's veto will add small % points to our control matchups and combo matchups that play Pact of Negation. Also the new Narset is amazing sideboard tech. New Teferi could definitely see play as well.
I agree with Dovin's Veto and Teferi, I also think Gideon's Triumph is worth testing.
I don't really understand the Narset hype though? What is she such 'amazing' sideboard tech against?
3 Mana sorcery speed bad impulse doesn't seem worth a card to me, and that's what she will be most of the time. If you can ever get 2 impulses out of her, or deny your opponent a card plus get an impulse it will be good, but I don't see the matchups where this is actually game-breaking, which is what sideboard cards need to be, imo.
I don't think it does anything against shadow; all of their cantrips are instant speed.
Pheonix has a lot of sorcery speed cantrips though, so yea, if you can stick it there it seems fine. However, sticking a 3 Mana planeswalker with 3 loyalty against a fast lightning bolt deck with hasty 3 power creatures seems ambitious.
In the mirror, it's basically a pithing needle for Jace that can draw a card or two, which is fine, but not sure it's worthy of a sideboard slot. If UW players were on more copies of Serum Visions she might be a bit more effective but as it stands she seems like a narrow sideboard card to me.
I don't think Narset is very good for us. Honestly, I'm more interested in Dovin, Hand of Control than Narset. To me, it seems like a better Gideon of the Trials when played on curve; Gideon is the more powerful topdeck and acts as a finisher, but UW doesn't care too much about finishers. Dovin buys a bit more tempo than Gideon does, and good tempo plays are something that UW control is want for. Hard to say Dovin is better than Gids overall, but they are very obviously comparable.
I'm not too excited about any of the three mana planeswalkers. I've spent a lot of time trying to make gideon of the trials good, but it was always very hit or miss. The emblem he makes can just beat certain strategies that can't remove him, but sadly even that wasn't good enough. Ironically, the best thing I used him for was smacking for 4 the same turn I cast supreme verdict. I've moved off of Gideon and have replaced his 2 slots with 2 wall of omens. The card is very average, but having the text "Draw a Card" on it tends to make it passable against most opponents. Against something like humans or burn, wall is beastly often gaining between 4 and 12 life throughout the game and drawing a card all for 2 mana.
I'm also considering moving off of opt and back to serum visions now that I'm down to a single terminus. I've found myself casting opts in the main-phase more than 50% of time, so I'm wondering if I should just go with the more powerful sorcery and play the visions.
I'm really dying for a counterspell reprint in modern horizons as the counters we are priced into playing are all terrible and I'd love a solid catch-all that doesn't die in the late game like mana leak does, cross your fingers we get this one!
I've moved to a UW midrange style control or the classic UW style of control from the original lists way back. Been having great success with it recently. I also love that it can close games much faster than Teferi versions. currently 6-0-2 over the last 2 events.
I would be running probably 2 more Surgicals in the sideboard over the Rest in Peace but i cant afford them atm. Also I would probably run 1 more Snapcaster in lieu of a Wall of Omens.
So there was an interesting UW combo-control list that popped up during the SCG modern event this weekend that took 9th place. It looks a lot like typical UW control except it replaced all the cryptics and most of the jace's and snaps with Teferi, Time Raveler and Knowledge Pool.
So there was an interesting UW combo-control list that popped up during the SCG modern event this weekend that took 9th place. It looks a lot like typical UW control except it replaced all the cryptics and most of the jace's and snaps with Teferi, Time Raveler and Knowledge Pool.
Well, there's not much to be said. It's a combo shell with some disruptive elements of control, so it mulligans a lot worse than typical UW and is considerably worse to Extraction and Meddling Mage effects. The upside of all the redundancy here isn't a payoff as neither Teferi nor Knowledge Pool hold up on their own in a vacuum save for certain matchups. I think it's one of those gimmicks that has a leg to stand on but only until people figure out the best way to one-up that strategy and care enough to. Deck can't possibly catch on in the long run.
So does Teferi + Knowledge pool lock them from ever casting anything other than instants? Or can they still cast sorcery speed stuff if it's during their main phase?
So does Teferi + Knowledge pool lock them from ever casting anything other than instants? Or can they still cast sorcery speed stuff if it's during their main phase?
Unless I'm reading it wrong the way it works is that they can only play at sorcery speed due to Teferi. With the Pool on the field every spell they attempt to cast will be replaced with the triggered ability of the pool which will make them cast a spell at instant speed that they're not allowed to.
This will result in both players being unable to cast anything at all as long as both effects are on the battlefield. Since Teferi bounces artifacts, if your mana allows it you can bounce the Pool to cast a wincon and then cast the Pool again and continue to lock your opponent out.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Playing: WUMiracles ControlUW RUBGrixis Death's ShadowBUR
Opponent can cast during mainphase with empty stack only, pool will trigger and then they will be unable to cast the card from pool. They can't cast anything from hand, no instants, no sorceries, no nothing. They could cast cards from other zones though because pool doesn't trigger from other zones, but there aren't really a whole lot of cards in modern breing cast from other zones. We will still be able to cast any time we would normally be able to then trigger pool and cast something off pool.
You don't need to bounce pool, which makes the combo more robust than people seem to imagine; if you can resolve pool it's unlikely your opponent will be able to kill you the following turn since their ability to play cards in the correct order will be significantly hindered. You can then freely cast your teferi the following turn granted you have at least 1 other spell to cast and the Mana to cast both teferi and the spell.
It seems gimmicky, and it only gets worse when people find out what's up, but I haven't played with the new teferi yet since it's overpriced online. I don't see why you'd play 4 knowledge pools, i'd go down to three and play a thirst for knowledge or a cryptic.
Opponent can cast during mainphase with empty stack only, pool will trigger and then they will be unable to cast the card from pool. They can't cast anything from hand, no instants, no sorceries, no nothing. They could cast cards from other zones though because pool doesn't trigger from other zones, but there aren't really a whole lot of cards in modern breing cast from other zones. We will still be able to cast any time we would normally be able to then trigger pool and cast something off pool.
You don't need to bounce pool, which makes the combo more robust than people seem to imagine; if you can resolve pool it's unlikely your opponent will be able to kill you the following turn since their ability to play cards in the correct order will be significantly hindered. You can then freely cast your teferi the following turn granted you have at least 1 other spell to cast and the Mana to cast both teferi and the spell.
How come you don't need to bounce pool? If you play a spell with the pool on the table it will exile the spell you're playing and trigger the second ability. If you want to resolve another spell you can't have the pool on the table.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Playing: WUMiracles ControlUW RUBGrixis Death's ShadowBUR
moreso i was wondering if including a single terminus is fundamentally sound deckbuilding wise...if that makes any sense. that or if anyone has done the same and has any opinions on the cards performance. looks like you are already doing it, so that is some confirmation at least lol.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)I agree with Dovin's Veto and Teferi, I also think Gideon's Triumph is worth testing.
I don't really understand the Narset hype though? What is she such 'amazing' sideboard tech against?
3 Mana sorcery speed bad impulse doesn't seem worth a card to me, and that's what she will be most of the time. If you can ever get 2 impulses out of her, or deny your opponent a card plus get an impulse it will be good, but I don't see the matchups where this is actually game-breaking, which is what sideboard cards need to be, imo.
Pheonix has a lot of sorcery speed cantrips though, so yea, if you can stick it there it seems fine. However, sticking a 3 Mana planeswalker with 3 loyalty against a fast lightning bolt deck with hasty 3 power creatures seems ambitious.
In the mirror, it's basically a pithing needle for Jace that can draw a card or two, which is fine, but not sure it's worthy of a sideboard slot. If UW players were on more copies of Serum Visions she might be a bit more effective but as it stands she seems like a narrow sideboard card to me.
I don't think Narset is very good for us. Honestly, I'm more interested in Dovin, Hand of Control than Narset. To me, it seems like a better Gideon of the Trials when played on curve; Gideon is the more powerful topdeck and acts as a finisher, but UW doesn't care too much about finishers. Dovin buys a bit more tempo than Gideon does, and good tempo plays are something that UW control is want for. Hard to say Dovin is better than Gids overall, but they are very obviously comparable.
I'm also considering moving off of opt and back to serum visions now that I'm down to a single terminus. I've found myself casting opts in the main-phase more than 50% of time, so I'm wondering if I should just go with the more powerful sorcery and play the visions.
I'm really dying for a counterspell reprint in modern horizons as the counters we are priced into playing are all terrible and I'd love a solid catch-all that doesn't die in the late game like mana leak does, cross your fingers we get this one!
THE JUICE[BOX]³ CUBE
Ya here you go:
3x Restoration Angel
2x Snapcaster Mage
4x Wall of Omens
2x Kitchen Finks
2x Vendilion Clique
Planeswalkers
2x Jace, The Mind Sculptor
2x Gideon of the Trials
Spells
1x Surgical Extraction
4x Opt
4x Path to Exile
1x Spell Snare
1x Dovin's Veto
3x Supreme Verdict
3x Cryptic Command
1x Absorb
4x Celestial Colonnade
4x Flooded Strand
4x Field of Rune
1x Ghost Quarter
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Mystic Gate
6x Island
3x Plains
2x Rest in Peace
2x Stony Silence
2x Damping Sphere
1x Dovin's Veto
1x Spell Snare
1x Dispel
1x Lyra Dawnbringer
1x Wrath of God
2x Celestial Purge
2x Disdainful Stroke
I would be running probably 2 more Surgicals in the sideboard over the Rest in Peace but i cant afford them atm. Also I would probably run 1 more Snapcaster in lieu of a Wall of Omens.
Here's a link: http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/129118
What do you guys think?
Well, there's not much to be said. It's a combo shell with some disruptive elements of control, so it mulligans a lot worse than typical UW and is considerably worse to Extraction and Meddling Mage effects. The upside of all the redundancy here isn't a payoff as neither Teferi nor Knowledge Pool hold up on their own in a vacuum save for certain matchups. I think it's one of those gimmicks that has a leg to stand on but only until people figure out the best way to one-up that strategy and care enough to. Deck can't possibly catch on in the long run.
Big question becomes why you are playing that combo and not something else like Devoted Druid.
This will result in both players being unable to cast anything at all as long as both effects are on the battlefield. Since Teferi bounces artifacts, if your mana allows it you can bounce the Pool to cast a wincon and then cast the Pool again and continue to lock your opponent out.
WUMiracles ControlUW
RUBGrixis Death's ShadowBUR
You don't need to bounce pool, which makes the combo more robust than people seem to imagine; if you can resolve pool it's unlikely your opponent will be able to kill you the following turn since their ability to play cards in the correct order will be significantly hindered. You can then freely cast your teferi the following turn granted you have at least 1 other spell to cast and the Mana to cast both teferi and the spell.
https://old.reddit.com/r/ModernMagic/comments/blfctl/uw_teferis_pool_tournament_report_9th_scg/
It seems gimmicky, and it only gets worse when people find out what's up, but I haven't played with the new teferi yet since it's overpriced online. I don't see why you'd play 4 knowledge pools, i'd go down to three and play a thirst for knowledge or a cryptic.
WUMiracles ControlUW
RUBGrixis Death's ShadowBUR