They can claim it on our turn if they're not bad.
Its unlikely that this will be reliable in the future.
Only if you cast the RIP into an open green source, which won't always be the case. They usually spend the first few turns spending their mana. Otherwise we get to untap and can protect with our other countermagic as well.
Don't forget, a lot of hogaak lists are running wispmare as well as trophy/claim, and force doesnt protect vs the evoke. I think some persistant hate mb is the answer, since surgical is no longer enough, and they fight through multiple pieces of one shot hate like tormods and relic.
I wouldn't go too ballistic with the mainboard hate for a single breakout deck. If you really want to beat Hogaak, going back on Terminus can be a good plan without immediately mainboarding RIP.
The only method I'm currently considering as competent enough against the archetype is 4x Angelsong + 2x Ashiok ; in my limited testing with maindecks it appears equalish preboard with this configuration (well, slightly positive, but I guess testing by myself could bias the quality of play in favor of control). It's funny, but this essentially degrades UW's role in the matchup into glorified turbo fog (cryptic is used as a fog too in that case) that essentially gets back CA in the lategame (Azcanta, Narset, Teferi, I don't have jaces). After fogging the heck out of them, you can get an Ashiok + swipe to clean up (the most problematic card is bridge at that point but you do need the post-swipe yard too) and then keep containing their board while you start grinding value.
Perhaps the desert that exiles yards would help a lot too, but I haven't tested yet.
Hello everybody, i get some card from a friend who played control and i wanna try to make a UW control, for now my budget is very limited but in some month i will get the good card. so my question is, i have 4 slot that i really not find the good card to get in, have you some suggestion for this? second you would change something of the current list? the budget is near 40-50 for now, i appreciate also some suggestion for future improovment by step of 50-60, except jace mind sculptor, form the first thing to add. the mission briefing is here for a kind of snapcaster, in some case he works good give the card you need but you don't draw again like removal, counter. i try also winds of abandon like 5th single removal and an a 4th sweeper in case, but not full convinced. the mana base is so budget, i know, but i wait to use my money on it for your suggestion. thank you so much.
2 Cryptic Command
1 Detention Sphere
2 Dovin's Veto
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Hieroglyphic Illumination
1 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
2 Jace, Wielder of Mysteries
2 Logic Knot
2 Mission Briefing
3 Narset, Parter of Veils
4 Opt
4 Path to Exile
1 Serum Visions
1 Spell Snare
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Winds of Abandon
1 Wrath of God
I think playing UW on a budget is reasonable but I'm not sure about your list. I'm no UW master but I'll do my very best to try and help out a bit. But take it with a grain of salt.
The two biggest problems I see with your list are:
1. You don't have enough win options. 1 Teferi + 2 Colonnades are the only way for you to close out games. Theoretically there's Jace but imho he's way to slow by himself (I'd probably cut all copies).
2. You have no way to reliably protect your planeswalker or pressure opposing planeswalkers.
This is a $50 "upgrade" I came up with
1 Gideon of the Trials
1 Gideon Jura
The Gideons are both a threat and can protect you and your planeswalkers.
1 Vendilion Clique
This is the card I'd probably buy first. It's a house, especially with Narset.
2 Wall of Omens
Blockers that can buy you some time and replace themselves. If Path is a dead card you can ramp yourself.
1 Timely Reinforcements
It's a "filler" but especially without Snapcaster you might need the blockers.
1 Spreading Seas
3 Field of Ruin
Land hate is crucial and Field can fix your mana. I opted for 3 Field + 1 Seas for budget reasons.
1 Faerie Conclave
In a stock UW list with 2-4 Snapcaster and 1-2 Clique 2 Colonnades should be enough. But without Snapcaster and only one Clique a 3rd manland might be worth considering.
Possible cuts: 2x Jace, 5x lands
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I don't understand? Your opponent dragging out the game will not effect how much time you have on your clock.
On MTGO both players have separate clocks, focus on making sure you use your own time effectively. If your opponent drags out the game it can only effect them, not you.
Dragging out the game as in not conceding, but letting the game go until a close the game. Making me use my time on killing him or ticking teferi or jayce to ult
It might not be very nice but making your opponent kill you is completely reasonable imho. Presenting a boardstate from which the opponent cannot win is not enough to win a game. (Unfortunately) It's quite common on MTGO that people try to time out control players. The only way to deal with this is to play faster. As a side effect it gets less likely the faster you get. People won't try and time you out if they realize that you're not going to lose trough time unless there is a lot of salt involved.
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It might not be very nice but making your opponent kill you is completely reasonable imho. Presenting a boardstate from which the opponent cannot win is not enough to win a game. (Unfortunately) It's quite common on MTGO that people try to time out control players. The only way to deal with this is to play faster. As a side effect it gets less likely the faster you get. People won't try and time you out if they realize that you're not going to lose trough time unless there is a lot of salt involved.
I do get that. People will try to do what they can to win.
What is the point where you know that you have to close the game, or see the chance for closing the game?
An example, you have enough mana for colonnade, but you wont have cryptic open, only negate lets say. If they play any creature, you lose tempo and now may not be able to attack with the colonnade. or this is just the risk you have to take?
Would have loved if it was 30 min per player. Just 5 min extra would do wonders..
This is what I’m trying. The engine Narset-Memory has been memorable, for the time being. Considering to up the count of pitch spells (have been insane in my testing) and Commit//Memory.
When you play Control on MTGO you are signing up to need to play quickly or accept timeouts, it's just the downside of a reactive shell that doesn't quite have a quick kill button. If they want to force you to have it, that's their prerogative (liken this to the win condition-less Esper Control decks in Standard, where you are literally just creating an unending game and forcing your opponent to either concede or be decked after a loooong time.)
If you're concerned about this, figure out where you're wasting the most time and tighten your decision making in those instances. Figure out when the earliest is you can start turning the corner, e.g. playing Snaps as Ambush Vipers and swinging in to chip away. If you are playing to not lose, e.g. super conservatively, not even trying to win until you are certain you cannot lose, then you honestly deserve to be timed out. The game doesn't end when you have a Teferi emblem, you still need to reduce their life to 0 or Mill them out. Sure, opponents might concede to not waste their own real-world time, but that's something they do for themselves, not for you. They don't owe you any time. By playing slow, you set yourself up to be timed out; those opponents are just letting you lie in the bed you made.
Plus, from a competitive point of view, if the only way a person can win is by letting you run out of time, then that's their choice to make. It's just a part of MTGO with its timer system; by playing it, you sign up for that different type of play.
I do get that. People will try to do what they can to win.
What is the point where you know that you have to close the game, or see the chance for closing the game?
An example, you have enough mana for colonnade, but you wont have cryptic open, only negate lets say. If they play any creature, you lose tempo and now may not be able to attack with the colonnade. or this is just the risk you have to take?
Would have loved if it was 30 min per player. Just 5 min extra would do wonders..
I feel like your mindset/approach when it comes to mtgo might be wrong. It's your responsibility to actually win the game. If you're getting timed out it's not your opponent being unfair, it's you being too slow. There is no obligation to scoop if you cannot win a game. Sometimes you have to try and cut corners or ramp up the risk to close out the game. That's no different in paper. It's what you sign up for with a deck like UW control.
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Yeah I agree with other posters about the cost of playing control. You need to know when to f2, f3, f4, f6 and f8. Knowing that involves which cards your opponent can play or what can happen on board. F6ing is a bit worse time saver now that there's a free counter in force of negation and people main deck surgical. You should also have minimal stops if going to time is a problem.
Unfortunately you just need to practice with your function keys and play tons more matches.
I haven't spent a huge amount of time on MTGO, but from watching streamers the more useful skill, like I said above, is knowing when to turn the corner. You save a couple dozen seconds by F6ing, you save entire turns worth of time by presenting a clock a few turns before there is a 0% chance of retaliation. It's playing the odds.
This is what I’m trying. The engine Narset-Memory has been memorable, for the time being. Considering to up the count of pitch spells (have been insane in my testing) and Commit//Memory.
Interesting approach. I have to test this. But what do you mean by more "pitch spells"? Like the blue shoal? Then in your concept, is Memmory really better than Days (which was ok in the few tests I've made with a playset of FoN) ?
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Only if you cast the RIP into an open green source, which won't always be the case. They usually spend the first few turns spending their mana. Otherwise we get to untap and can protect with our other countermagic as well.
Is there a discord for the deck to discuss everything after the forum has closed?
https://mobile.twitter.com/McWinSauce/status/1138533835912749056
Even when they have the sac outlet, it's better to have Terminus than not to. Otherwise, you're probably just dead.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
Perhaps the desert that exiles yards would help a lot too, but I haven't tested yet.
GW Copycat
Jund Loam
2 Cryptic Command
1 Detention Sphere
2 Dovin's Veto
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Hieroglyphic Illumination
1 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
2 Jace, Wielder of Mysteries
2 Logic Knot
2 Mission Briefing
3 Narset, Parter of Veils
4 Opt
4 Path to Exile
1 Serum Visions
1 Spell Snare
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Winds of Abandon
1 Wrath of God
9 Island
5 Plains
2 Hallowed Fountain
4 Glacial Fortress
2 Prairie Stream
1 Irrigated Farmland
2 Celestial Colonnade
The two biggest problems I see with your list are:
1. You don't have enough win options. 1 Teferi + 2 Colonnades are the only way for you to close out games. Theoretically there's Jace but imho he's way to slow by himself (I'd probably cut all copies).
2. You have no way to reliably protect your planeswalker or pressure opposing planeswalkers.
This is a $50 "upgrade" I came up with
1 Gideon of the Trials
1 Gideon Jura
The Gideons are both a threat and can protect you and your planeswalkers.
1 Vendilion Clique
This is the card I'd probably buy first. It's a house, especially with Narset.
2 Wall of Omens
Blockers that can buy you some time and replace themselves. If Path is a dead card you can ramp yourself.
1 Timely Reinforcements
It's a "filler" but especially without Snapcaster you might need the blockers.
1 Spreading Seas
3 Field of Ruin
Land hate is crucial and Field can fix your mana. I opted for 3 Field + 1 Seas for budget reasons.
1 Faerie Conclave
In a stock UW list with 2-4 Snapcaster and 1-2 Clique 2 Colonnades should be enough. But without Snapcaster and only one Clique a 3rd manland might be worth considering.
Possible cuts: 2x Jace, 5x lands
UR Blue Moon
UBR Grixis Shadow
GWU Amulet Titan
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
Happened to be when Tron player just drags the game, while his tron lands are exiled to surgical, and no Karn.
I had to beat him to death with colonnades and snaps, but time run out for the round 3.
Is it just bad luck, or I need to be faster on decisions making and attack with colonnades.
Finding it hard sometimes to close out the games when this happens.
On MTGO both players have separate clocks, focus on making sure you use your own time effectively. If your opponent drags out the game it can only effect them, not you.
UR Blue Moon
UBR Grixis Shadow
GWU Amulet Titan
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
I do get that. People will try to do what they can to win.
What is the point where you know that you have to close the game, or see the chance for closing the game?
An example, you have enough mana for colonnade, but you wont have cryptic open, only negate lets say. If they play any creature, you lose tempo and now may not be able to attack with the colonnade. or this is just the risk you have to take?
Would have loved if it was 30 min per player. Just 5 min extra would do wonders..
4x Glacial Fortress
3x Celestial Colonnade
4x Field of Ruin
2x Blast Zone
4x Flooded Strand
2x Plains
6x Island
Creatures (7)
4x Snapcaster Mage
3x Vendilion Clique
4x Narset, Parter of Veils
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2x Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
Other Spells (20)
4x Opt
4x Path to Exile
2x Condemn
2x Detention Sphere
4x Force of Negation
2x Spell Pierce
2x Commit//Memory
4x Rest In Peace
3x Terminus
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Dovin’s Veto
2x Timely Reinforcements
2x Blessed Alliance
1x Dispel
This is what I’m trying. The engine Narset-Memory has been memorable, for the time being. Considering to up the count of pitch spells (have been insane in my testing) and Commit//Memory.
If you're concerned about this, figure out where you're wasting the most time and tighten your decision making in those instances. Figure out when the earliest is you can start turning the corner, e.g. playing Snaps as Ambush Vipers and swinging in to chip away. If you are playing to not lose, e.g. super conservatively, not even trying to win until you are certain you cannot lose, then you honestly deserve to be timed out. The game doesn't end when you have a Teferi emblem, you still need to reduce their life to 0 or Mill them out. Sure, opponents might concede to not waste their own real-world time, but that's something they do for themselves, not for you. They don't owe you any time. By playing slow, you set yourself up to be timed out; those opponents are just letting you lie in the bed you made.
Plus, from a competitive point of view, if the only way a person can win is by letting you run out of time, then that's their choice to make. It's just a part of MTGO with its timer system; by playing it, you sign up for that different type of play.
I feel like your mindset/approach when it comes to mtgo might be wrong. It's your responsibility to actually win the game. If you're getting timed out it's not your opponent being unfair, it's you being too slow. There is no obligation to scoop if you cannot win a game. Sometimes you have to try and cut corners or ramp up the risk to close out the game. That's no different in paper. It's what you sign up for with a deck like UW control.
UR Blue Moon
UBR Grixis Shadow
GWU Amulet Titan
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
Unfortunately you just need to practice with your function keys and play tons more matches.
Interesting approach. I have to test this. But what do you mean by more "pitch spells"? Like the blue shoal? Then in your concept, is Memmory really better than Days (which was ok in the few tests I've made with a playset of FoN) ?