Fact or Fiction just takes the role of Hieroglyphic Illumination right? I can assume so, and that really fitting 1 copy in is probably as far as we may be able to stretch it. Although, I am seeing more and more Azorius Control decks dropping down to 3 Cryptic Command... so maybe 2 copies if you really want to push it. I think Fact or Fiction is an absolutely insane card, but I am unsure how applicable it is in the Modern format.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
LEGACY|UWStonebladeCOMMANDER|UBGThe Mimeoplsm Ooze & Aghhs!MODERN|UWAzorius Control THE JUICE[BOX]³ CUBE
Maybe - I really like FoF in light of everyone going Narset crazy though since FoF doesn't actually draw cards.
I have to agree with this. FoF gets around Narset's static ability.
Aside from the above, I think the advantages of multiple FoFs are:
1. We can chain multiple FoFs.
2. Empower our Snapcaster Mages.
3. Empower our Logic Knot.
Beat the Rock, Spirits, black devotion and burn, dropping only one game vs black devotion through flooding out. 3 mana planeswalkers were nutty. Ignite the Beacon got a concession out of Rock and set up the winning play vs spirits by forcing them to fight over it on their EOT and untapping into Verdict with backup. Not sure yet if Ignite is too cute or an actual consideration but with the new walkers this felt like the strongest UWx list I've played. Didn't get to play vs anything unfair but against fair decks current UW just melts anything.
Are you finding the list better because of the presense of the 3 mana walkers, or is it the Ignite that's actually doing the legwork? Just an honest question, as at least 1 little Teferi and 1 Narset are pretty much stock at this point.
As I said in the post, it's the cmc3 walkers that have really pushed this deck. Ignite was powerful and fun but would need more testing
HOWEVER Fact or Fiction probably now would go in that slot. I'm planning on trying to fit two FoFs in
Pact of Negation also needs a slot in the deck, I'm probably cutting a cryptic and a cheap counterspell for 2 FoN in the main. It's going to be interesting to balance Dovin's Veto and Force of Negation in the main and side.
Is the second wall of omens better than a wrath effect?
Curious to know what everybody think about the correct numbers or ratio of spot removals/walls/wraths in current lists. I can see walls being important to protect 3cmc PWs, and being a better card in the mirror, but i'd not feel ocmfortable shaving mass removals down to 2. opinions?
My biggest takeaway of the evening was that I didn't even really need the third wrath in the board vs spirits. Wall makes you able to ignore a small creature instead of being poked at by some random 2/2 you don't want to spend a card on which alleviates the pressure of getting your wrath a bit. Looking at mtgtop8, most UW lists now shift to playing the full 4 snapcasters, which makes spot removal better. I think I'd add a second Oust before mainboarding the third wrath
UW is always popular and is becoming a real force now, so having less dead cards in the main for the mirror is also a big plus.
Round 1 (2-0 VS Grixis Death Shadow): Game 1 on the Draw, I keep an opener with Narset, little Teferi, 3 mana, a path and a Snap. My opponent T2 Inquisitions taking path and plays a Gurmag Angler. I draw a 2nd path and take care of Angler on my T2. T3 I land Narset which sticks, followed by Teferi on T4 and the game is soundly mine from then on as my opponent doesn't draw a way to deal with them.
Sideboard plan:
-Logic Knot x1
-Dovin's Veto x2
-Jace the Mind Sculptor x1
-Mana Leak x1
+Supreme Verdict
+Wrath of God
+Celestial Purge x2
+Surgical Extraction
Game 2: My opponent gets and angler down early, but again I get a T3 Teferi followed by a T4 Narset and the game effectively ends.
(Bonus Game 3 for fun): We play a third game because the first two ended quickly. I'm on the Draw again with pre-sideboard deck. I get a T4 Narset and T5 Teferi and the game ends with my opponent scooping saying he hates me deck.
Round 2 (2-0 VS UR Kiln Fiend/Thing in the Ice aggro): Game 1 on the Draw. I keep another lucky Teferi+Narset hand. My opponent T2's a Kiln Fiend. I Path it. Follow up opponent T3's a second Fiend. I run out Teferi and bounce it. My Opponent re plays it and gut shots Teferi (Opponent's been stuck on 2 mana since T2). I run out Nareset minus her and grab a Oust which I promptly cast. opponent plays a few more hands and scoops once I land big Teferi on T6.
Sideboard plan: (Same as round 1 opponent)
-Logic Knot x1
-Dovin's Veto x2
-Jace the Mind Sculptor x1
-Mana Leak x1
+Supreme Verdict
+Wrath of God
+Celestial Purge x2
+Surgical Extraction
Game 2 On the play. This game turns into the hard prison match. Opponent casts Blood Moon on T4 followed by second moon on T5, but I have at least one basic U and W source so I'm still in the game. I surgical Kiln Fiend from their deck early on, followed by a second surgical hitting lightning bolt. My opponent eventually lands a Pyromancers Accession, but I have Narset out with 1 Loyalty. They draw a gut shot to kill her before I can find a way to deal with moons/protect her. Digs excessively and gets a Bedlem Reveler, but I'm at 13 health. At this point there is a lot of math and sadly with cantrips and prowess triggers (and the loan remaining Gut shot in their hand) it's determined that my opponent can only hit my for 11 damage this turn and it left with only 4 cards in their deck when done. I have answers to reveler and they determine that it will result in them milling out before I die. (yay for that early surgical on bolt!)
Round 3 (2-1 VS Mardu Pyromancer): Game 1 For the first time I win a die roll and I'm on the play. Opponent Mulligans to 6 and scrys to bottom. I get aggressive with my plays and land a T3 Narset. My opponent takes the opening and plays Blood Moon, I only have 1 basic U source. This shuts me out of the game long enough that my opponent is able to establish a strong board state with Young Pyro and is able to kill me.
Sideboard plan (similar to previous):
-Logic Knot x1
-Dovin's Veto x2
-Jace the Mind Sculptor x1
-Mana Leak x1
-Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
+Supreme Verdict
+Wrath of God
+Celestial Purge x2
+Surgical Extraction
+Timely Reinforcements
Game 2 on the play, lots of back and forth. Narset shuts off opponent long enough for me to keep a good card advantage and board control, but eventually dies. At one point opponent plays Bedlam Reveler I let it resolve and with the discard trigger on the stack cast cryptic bouncing it back to their hand and drawing a card myself. This messes up opponents game plan. Game ends when opponent cast Kambal and I finally get a Celestial Colonnade. I proceed to not cast spells and just beat down with Colonnade ignoring the 2 damage a turn from Kambal.
No Changes to deck for Game 3.
Game 3: I'm able to surgical extract Blood Moons from my opponents deck because they discard one on a T1 Faithless Looting and follow it up with a T3 Teferi, T4 Narset, T5 Big Teferi. I'm able to protect my walkers long enough to get Big Teferi Ultimate and my opponent scoops.
Seriously Narset seems to be the most under appreciated and underplayed WAR walker for modern. I think she is bonkers broken with the amount of cantriping/card drawing that goes on in Modern she is able to help you get a strong card advantage against your opponent by denying them of that extra card draw/digging.
I'm strongly considering dropping my 1 of Blessed Alliance for a 3rd Narset mainboard. I am also debating dropping Mana Leak for a more functional lower cost counter spell, either a second Spell Pierce or a Spell Snare.
It actually is an amazing addition to this archetype and will slot nicely into my UW midrange variant. This straight up replaces Detention Sphere for me and allows for A LOT of tricks and adds a lot more versatility than D Sphere. The only time I see D sphere being better is VS token strategies, which aren't very prevalent in modern.
In my deck in particular I play 3mc Teferi, Jace and Wall which all deal with the elephant on the opponents side. This allow us to instantly remove resolved non creature permanents, untap and verdict to clear up most board states that were traditionally very hard to overcome.
Quick question guys : any reasons why the miracle package seems to have fallen out of flavor ? Is it because of the new planeswalkers that people are toying with ?
Quick question guys : any reasons why the miracle package seems to have fallen out of flavor ? Is it because of the new planeswalkers that people are toying with ?
Guess Terminus has been the best choice to deal with bant spirits being tier 1. Against shadow amulet humans field Verdict is much better.
Quick question guys : any reasons why the miracle package seems to have fallen out of flavor ? Is it because of the new planeswalkers that people are toying with ?
Guess Terminus has been the best choice to deal with bant spirits being tier 1. Against shadow amulet humans field Verdict is much better.
Quick question guys : any reasons why the miracle package seems to have fallen out of flavor ? Is it because of the new planeswalkers that people are toying with ?
Guess Terminus has been the best choice to deal with bant spirits being tier 1. Against shadow amulet humans field Verdict is much better.
Agreed, but then what about Phoenix and Dredge ?
I guess the trend of maindecking 1-2x Surgicals or Rests has helped these matchups enough to not actually need Terminus (which is luckluster enough on its own).
Quick question guys : any reasons why the miracle package seems to have fallen out of flavor ? Is it because of the new planeswalkers that people are toying with ?
Guess Terminus has been the best choice to deal with bant spirits being tier 1. Against shadow amulet humans field Verdict is much better.
Agreed, but then what about Phoenix and Dredge ?
Settle the Wreckage and Surgical Extraction have been the premier choice against those decks. The Terminus package was good for instant speed shenanigans, but requires 4 mainboard slots for a high CMC card and requires at least 3xJace, the Mind Sculptor to enable it. When you open up those slots you have room for more counter spells and the new Teferi, Time Raveler which is super strong across the board. With little Teferi you can instant speed any Wrath you want.
I´ve been tinkering with UW control keeping in mind the new spoiled cards and I really liked the list Gerry Thompson posted on SCG (premium) today as a start.
Here is the post Horizons list I have come up with based on his:
Don't know what the policy is about reposting content from premium sites so I will refrain from doing so but it`s interesting to point out that he is a fan of having some amount of knowledge pool in the deck, I don't really see it yet but I also have no expirience with it yet (if it turns out to be good then the mainboard fof would probably be it because while I want to play it i don't think it's really that good in a deck this full of expensive spells)
Maybe - I really like FoF in light of everyone going Narset crazy though since FoF doesn't actually draw cards.
THE JUICE[BOX]³ CUBE
I have to agree with this. FoF gets around Narset's static ability.
Aside from the above, I think the advantages of multiple FoFs are:
1. We can chain multiple FoFs.
2. Empower our Snapcaster Mages.
3. Empower our Logic Knot.
Are you finding the list better because of the presense of the 3 mana walkers, or is it the Ignite that's actually doing the legwork? Just an honest question, as at least 1 little Teferi and 1 Narset are pretty much stock at this point.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
HOWEVER Fact or Fiction probably now would go in that slot. I'm planning on trying to fit two FoFs in
Pact of Negation also needs a slot in the deck, I'm probably cutting a cryptic and a cheap counterspell for 2 FoN in the main. It's going to be interesting to balance Dovin's Veto and Force of Negation in the main and side.
Is the second wall of omens better than a wrath effect?
Curious to know what everybody think about the correct numbers or ratio of spot removals/walls/wraths in current lists. I can see walls being important to protect 3cmc PWs, and being a better card in the mirror, but i'd not feel ocmfortable shaving mass removals down to 2. opinions?
UW is always popular and is becoming a real force now, so having less dead cards in the main for the mirror is also a big plus.
http://decks.deckedbuilder.com/d/2019-05-23/Q7sb4gnBWU6Jk2njETM9UQ==
Here is the event summary
Round 1 (2-0 VS Grixis Death Shadow): Game 1 on the Draw, I keep an opener with Narset, little Teferi, 3 mana, a path and a Snap. My opponent T2 Inquisitions taking path and plays a Gurmag Angler. I draw a 2nd path and take care of Angler on my T2. T3 I land Narset which sticks, followed by Teferi on T4 and the game is soundly mine from then on as my opponent doesn't draw a way to deal with them.
Sideboard plan:
-Logic Knot x1
-Dovin's Veto x2
-Jace the Mind Sculptor x1
-Mana Leak x1
+Supreme Verdict
+Wrath of God
+Celestial Purge x2
+Surgical Extraction
Game 2: My opponent gets and angler down early, but again I get a T3 Teferi followed by a T4 Narset and the game effectively ends.
(Bonus Game 3 for fun): We play a third game because the first two ended quickly. I'm on the Draw again with pre-sideboard deck. I get a T4 Narset and T5 Teferi and the game ends with my opponent scooping saying he hates me deck.
Round 2 (2-0 VS UR Kiln Fiend/Thing in the Ice aggro): Game 1 on the Draw. I keep another lucky Teferi+Narset hand. My opponent T2's a Kiln Fiend. I Path it. Follow up opponent T3's a second Fiend. I run out Teferi and bounce it. My Opponent re plays it and gut shots Teferi (Opponent's been stuck on 2 mana since T2). I run out Nareset minus her and grab a Oust which I promptly cast. opponent plays a few more hands and scoops once I land big Teferi on T6.
Sideboard plan: (Same as round 1 opponent)
-Logic Knot x1
-Dovin's Veto x2
-Jace the Mind Sculptor x1
-Mana Leak x1
+Supreme Verdict
+Wrath of God
+Celestial Purge x2
+Surgical Extraction
Game 2 On the play. This game turns into the hard prison match. Opponent casts Blood Moon on T4 followed by second moon on T5, but I have at least one basic U and W source so I'm still in the game. I surgical Kiln Fiend from their deck early on, followed by a second surgical hitting lightning bolt. My opponent eventually lands a Pyromancers Accession, but I have Narset out with 1 Loyalty. They draw a gut shot to kill her before I can find a way to deal with moons/protect her. Digs excessively and gets a Bedlem Reveler, but I'm at 13 health. At this point there is a lot of math and sadly with cantrips and prowess triggers (and the loan remaining Gut shot in their hand) it's determined that my opponent can only hit my for 11 damage this turn and it left with only 4 cards in their deck when done. I have answers to reveler and they determine that it will result in them milling out before I die. (yay for that early surgical on bolt!)
Round 3 (2-1 VS Mardu Pyromancer): Game 1 For the first time I win a die roll and I'm on the play. Opponent Mulligans to 6 and scrys to bottom. I get aggressive with my plays and land a T3 Narset. My opponent takes the opening and plays Blood Moon, I only have 1 basic U source. This shuts me out of the game long enough that my opponent is able to establish a strong board state with Young Pyro and is able to kill me.
Sideboard plan (similar to previous):
-Logic Knot x1
-Dovin's Veto x2
-Jace the Mind Sculptor x1
-Mana Leak x1
-Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
+Supreme Verdict
+Wrath of God
+Celestial Purge x2
+Surgical Extraction
+Timely Reinforcements
Game 2 on the play, lots of back and forth. Narset shuts off opponent long enough for me to keep a good card advantage and board control, but eventually dies. At one point opponent plays Bedlam Reveler I let it resolve and with the discard trigger on the stack cast cryptic bouncing it back to their hand and drawing a card myself. This messes up opponents game plan. Game ends when opponent cast Kambal and I finally get a Celestial Colonnade. I proceed to not cast spells and just beat down with Colonnade ignoring the 2 damage a turn from Kambal.
No Changes to deck for Game 3.
Game 3: I'm able to surgical extract Blood Moons from my opponents deck because they discard one on a T1 Faithless Looting and follow it up with a T3 Teferi, T4 Narset, T5 Big Teferi. I'm able to protect my walkers long enough to get Big Teferi Ultimate and my opponent scoops.
Note:
MVP = Narset, Parter of Veils
Runner up = Teferi, Time Raveler
Seriously Narset seems to be the most under appreciated and underplayed WAR walker for modern. I think she is bonkers broken with the amount of cantriping/card drawing that goes on in Modern she is able to help you get a strong card advantage against your opponent by denying them of that extra card draw/digging.
I'm strongly considering dropping my 1 of Blessed Alliance for a 3rd Narset mainboard. I am also debating dropping Mana Leak for a more functional lower cost counter spell, either a second Spell Pierce or a Spell Snare.
Generous Gift
It actually is an amazing addition to this archetype and will slot nicely into my UW midrange variant. This straight up replaces Detention Sphere for me and allows for A LOT of tricks and adds a lot more versatility than D Sphere. The only time I see D sphere being better is VS token strategies, which aren't very prevalent in modern.
In my deck in particular I play 3mc Teferi, Jace and Wall which all deal with the elephant on the opponents side. This allow us to instantly remove resolved non creature permanents, untap and verdict to clear up most board states that were traditionally very hard to overcome.
Best card revealed for us so far IMO.
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
Source?
Guess Terminus has been the best choice to deal with bant spirits being tier 1. Against shadow amulet humans field Verdict is much better.
Agreed, but then what about Phoenix and Dredge ?
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
I guess the trend of maindecking 1-2x Surgicals or Rests has helped these matchups enough to not actually need Terminus (which is luckluster enough on its own).
GW Copycat
Jund Loam
Settle the Wreckage and Surgical Extraction have been the premier choice against those decks. The Terminus package was good for instant speed shenanigans, but requires 4 mainboard slots for a high CMC card and requires at least 3xJace, the Mind Sculptor to enable it. When you open up those slots you have room for more counter spells and the new Teferi, Time Raveler which is super strong across the board. With little Teferi you can instant speed any Wrath you want.
Here is the post Horizons list I have come up with based on his:
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Wall of Omens
Planeswalkers (8)
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Narset, Parter of Veils
1 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
3 Teferi, Time Raveler
Lands (25)
6 Island
2 Plains
2 Celestial Colonnade
4 Field of Ruin
4 Flooded Strand
3 Prismatic Vista
2 Glacial Fortress
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Fact or Fiction
3 Cryptic Command
1 Oust
1 Detention Sphere
2 Logic Knot
4 Path to Exile
2 Force of Negation
4 Serum Visions
3 Supreme Verdict
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Cataclysmic Gearhulk
3 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Celestial Purge
2 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Dovin's Veto
1 Force of Negation
1 Lyra Dawnbringer
2 Vendilion Clique
Don't know what the policy is about reposting content from premium sites so I will refrain from doing so but it`s interesting to point out that he is a fan of having some amount of knowledge pool in the deck, I don't really see it yet but I also have no expirience with it yet (if it turns out to be good then the mainboard fof would probably be it because while I want to play it i don't think it's really that good in a deck this full of expensive spells)