I'm banking pretty hard on Counterspell being printed. Honestly, if that's all they print that's worth playing then I'll be incredibly happy. I strongly think the card has more game than some people give it credit for.
I think Hymn is way strong. Brainstorm and Ponder would almost 100% require another cantrip to be banned; I just think we're already at a critical mass of them (if not too many) and adding the more powerful ones is not something WotC should want to be doing unless it cuts out a bunch of the others. It just plays too much into Xerox decks.
With some of the cards in WAR, I think they're going to be fairly bold with Horizons. Veto is blatantly in white, so is new Teferi. I think their printing will position white as the anti-control control to keep non-white control in check so they can print something like Baleful Strix in Horizons. Just a theory and a hope.
I have a few cards that I'm looking at from the new set that I want to get some opinions on.
Narset, Parter of Veils - This one might be iffy, or better off as a sideboard option for control matches, but I think getting two pseudo-Impulse chances, plus a somewhat relevant static ability might warrant a try. Our decks have a lot of non creature hits, and it kind of fills the Jace Beleren slot that older versions of the deck had.
Narset's Reversal - Another odd idea, this gives us a bit of extra counterspell insurance, and can even help stop spell based combo decks.
Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God - I'm not super high on this guy, but seeing some of the work he's doing in Standard testing, may still be worth a consideration. I currently think the format is faster than I'd like, especially for a five drop with such tricky mana, but there might be a spot for him. I don't want to have to drop the Ral, Izzet Viceroy in my version of the deck though, as I actually think Ral might be a tad better on the whole.
Tyrant's Scorn - I originally mis-read this as "Choose one or both" and got super excited. As it is, it's probably not good enough, but maybe it can work into a flex slot?
Blast Zone - There has been many times I wished I maindecked Engineered Explosives, and this let's me do so without taking a slot. It is colorless though, and while I don't personally, many of us Cruel players have Field of Ruin in the main deck. It might hinder the mana, but it might be worth a shot?
These next ones are possibly sideboard considerations:
Ashiok, Dream Render - Sideboard option for Dredge or Phoenix? The static ability might even do a bit to slow down some other decks enough that we can gain the upper hand.
Dovin, Hand of Control - Another possible consideration for spell based combo, acts like our own Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, plus it Fogs something for the turn as well, though that might not come up much in the spell matches.
Against aggro decks, or even in general, what about Wall of Runes? Not something that is AH-MAZE-ZING but I think it might be able to stall us some turns and soak up some damage while we get what we need. Almost like when the deck was standard and I would run calcite snapper, or augur of bolas. Except one had shroud and the other let you dig through 3 cards, but scrying serves its purpose to us. Thoughts?
This is the version of the deck I'm going to be testing at the local modern night on Thursday. I have added previous build notes to the page here. I found Narset to be good and worth trying to squeeze a second copy in.
If you are trying any 5-mana PW, I would say the new Bolas is probably where you want to be, he is miles better than Ral, and since you already have a mana base for Cruel Ultimatum, casting him should not be a problem.
If you are trying any 5-mana PW, I would say the new Bolas is probably where you want to be, he is miles better than Ral, and since you already have a mana base for Cruel Ultimatum, casting him should not be a problem.
Could you explain the bolded point please? This has been opposite to what I have found.
I tested the new Bolas in some matches between FNM drafts (probably about 10-12 games total, vs GB Rock, Infect, Humans, WB Midrange, Death's Shadow, and some random jank), and haven't been impressed (or at least impressed enough to remove Ral). Just because we're a Cruel ultimatum deck, doesn't mean the mana is easy to arrange. I have had many games where I needed to fetch a Steam Vents to cast Lightning Bolt, but have only ended up drawing one or two black producing lands by turn 5 (sometimes you draw your basics or an EtB tapped land). I also found that the plus ability doesn't do as much as Ral's, as I would rather be choosing the card than just drawing a random one. The exile part of it was also not relevant often enough, as many times the opponent could afford to throw away a card from their hand, or even an extra land, then swing at Bolas or myself. That ability might be good in the Control matchup though, which was one I didn't test. I also noticed a major difference between the minus and kill a creature abilities- being left at 1 loyalty is not as good as being at 2. Sure, Bolas can kill a Planeswalker, but anything can kill him after. It feels bad to have Bolas plinked by an Electrolyze, or even killed by a Noble Hierarch. While Ral can also die easily, you don't need to worry about that random 1/1 spirit killing him. I won't go into the ultimates, as both win the game on the spot, but in a vacuum, Ral gets to his faster.
I'm sure the static ability is what everyone is excited about, but I still hold to my original opinion- It won't ever do enough in a game where you get to double your planeswalkers, as you're already way ahead, and I don't think using your opponent's planeswalkers will come up often either. If you try to play this vs UW control and copy a Teferi or Jace, I highly doubt it will resolve (if it does, good for you, but that's the exception to the rule). Copying a Liliana in the Jund/BG Rock matches might work out for you, but I don't think it's worth it for that. The tron matchup is also where the static might do work, but their Karn comes down a turn or two before Bolas, so good luck with that. I can't think of any other major planeswalkers seeing play in Modern, asides from Narset now and maybe 3 mana Teferi, but I don't think they are worthwhile targets either.
It will take a lot to switch me over from Ral, as he's won me many games that would be unwinnable even with a Nicol Bolas. I will have to be shown the success before I make the change- I'm not opposed to it, but I think Bolas' home is in Standard currently.
Nah it's not about the static ability, although brainstorm into fetch into brainstorm with a JTMS is pure sweetness.
His +1 provides card/board advantage as you not only draw a card, but remove something from your opponent's hand or board. It is not selection, sure, but depends on what you want.
His minus 3 is unconditional removal for creatures AND planeswalkers, which we struggle a bit to deal with otherwise. Ral's is conditional, it is entirely likely that by T5 you don't have, for example 5 instant/sorceries in the GY and you can't kill a big goyf or a tasigur or a big DS. The argument that "anything can kill him after" is a bit moot, because the same holds true for Ral as you also pointed out as well. Having the ability to unconditionally kill 2 different types of permanents is much more useful I think.
It's a bit irrelevant to compare ultimates, because it rarely happens and opponents usually scoop before that, but Bolas literally wins you the game the moment you ulti him, so there is that.
You would have to tweaks to your mana base I think to not have problems with Bolas' mana, namely change one of the Sulfur Falls to a Drowned Catacomb, and you could cut the Mountain for another Blood Crypt.
His minus 3 is unconditional removal for creatures AND planeswalkers, which we struggle a bit to deal with otherwise. Ral's is conditional, it is entirely likely that by T5 you don't have, for example 5 instant/sorceries in the GY and you can't kill a big goyf or a tasigur or a big DS. The argument that "anything can kill him after" is a bit moot, because the same holds true for Ral as you also pointed out as well. Having the ability to unconditionally kill 2 different types of permanents is much more useful I think.
I've found that I don't really need more ways to kill a most creatures, and the only times that I've struggled is if we're in the late game top-decking. It's not as if we're playing very little creature removal, though I guess it depends on the deck construction. I will concede that planeswalkers are difficult to deal with, but I would rather rely on Dreadbore, or even Bedevil/Hero's Downfall for that, as they synergize with Snapcaster and are cheaper to cast. If you're using Bolas as a Spark Harvest, it's not worth it, though if he sticks around you're fine.
I'been playing a deck with nicol bolas, dragon-god but realized it needs something to bring back planeswalker win conditions. which kind of puts my grixis build closer to ultimatum build if i put dark imitations in it.
I like the idea of dark intimations but for the 2 extra mana I’ll take cruel ultimatum. Gives us that extra card draw, 10 life point swing with them losing 5 and we gain 5 and they discard 3 instead of 1. With Bolas that card seems fun but I think Cruel is the superior version and does exactly what we need it to. The big thing for me is the life point swing. Considering we have 7 turns to pull our card out and drop it means we’ve probably taken some damage already and that’s if we drop it turn 7 and we have the mana. Any later and you’ve taken more damage I’m sure so that life loss/life gain is critical IMHO in turning the tides in our favor.
I'd say FoF and the new Force are both really great cards. I'd want to try out like 2 FoFs and see how you like it. The new Force seems like it'll be fantastic hitting stuff like Turn 1 vial, Shriekhorn, early goryo's vengeance etc. Hopefully pitching a not so great card to it. Then maybe making up some of that card advantage lost with something like a FoF later on. Also makes it more viable to tap out for Jace vs Tron and just start brainstorming every turn and just force their karn etc.
Holding open cryptic and then having FoF available also sounds so so nice. Same with snapping back a FoF.
Of course its hard to know for sure just how great those cards will be, but I am pretty optimistic.
So far, I'm wondering if we'd be well served looking to build Cruel Control to maximize with Narset (I have seen some UW decks play the full four!) and a couple of Fact or Fiction. If we get some good removal and maybe another 'counterspell' (I don't think we'll get Counterspell on top of Flusterstorm and Force of Negation), we could revisit. I like the idea of having some number of Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek (gotta beat competing Narset's and Baby Teferi somehow), with Fact or Fiction to pull ahead in card advantage after holding up Cryptic Command. On that note, how important is playing Jace, the Mind Sculptor even necessary now? We can use Narset and FoF for card advantage and play more instant speed control.
While FoF card advantage will put you ahead, Jace will sometimes fill a similar role and critically has the "potential" to keep you ahead to a point where there is no coming back for a lot of decks, as well as just ending the game himself potentially. FoF can't really do either of those potential cases. While I think card advantage-wise FoF could help fulfill some of a deck's requirements for getting ahead, I don't think it means you would want to remove all jaces for FoFs, because of the other vacancies (keeping you ahead, and winning the game), that removing Jace would create, at least for those potential # of cases where that ends up happening.
While FoF card advantage will put you ahead, Jace will sometimes fill a similar role and critically has the "potential" to keep you ahead to a point where there is no coming back for a lot of decks, as well as just ending the game himself potentially. FoF can't really do either of those potential cases. While I think card advantage-wise FoF could help fulfill some of a deck's requirements for getting ahead, I don't think it means you would want to remove all jaces for FoFs, because of the other vacancies (keeping you ahead, and winning the game), that removing Jace would create, at least for those potential # of cases where that ends up happening.
This is kind of why I want to have multiple Narset. Though she doesn't have the potential to win the game on her own, I don't think we really need another win condition. She pulls us ahead on card advantage, while keeping some decks from being able to catch back up, plus is cheaper, which is good since if we want to play Fact or Fiction, Jace, and Cryptic Command, we're quite loaded on 4-drops. I've already cut down to a single Jace myself- I found that while he was good, I just didn't have enough spots to safely play him against many decks (control especially). I just think having our 4 mana plays be at instant speed, where we can Cryptic Command something or just FoF, let's us be a little more versatile without sacrificing much. I found that the 'win con' part of Jace has never been relevant, as I've been able to just Bolt-Snap-Bolt or Ultimatum people before I Jace them. I just feel Narset is going to be the better (in this deck) card advantage planeswalker, as it's basically a Search For Azcanta flipped on turn three, which can find more if we have multiples.
I think Hymn is way strong. Brainstorm and Ponder would almost 100% require another cantrip to be banned; I just think we're already at a critical mass of them (if not too many) and adding the more powerful ones is not something WotC should want to be doing unless it cuts out a bunch of the others. It just plays too much into Xerox decks.
With some of the cards in WAR, I think they're going to be fairly bold with Horizons. Veto is blatantly in white, so is new Teferi. I think their printing will position white as the anti-control control to keep non-white control in check so they can print something like Baleful Strix in Horizons. Just a theory and a hope.
"Reveal a Dragon"
Narset, Parter of Veils - This one might be iffy, or better off as a sideboard option for control matches, but I think getting two pseudo-Impulse chances, plus a somewhat relevant static ability might warrant a try. Our decks have a lot of non creature hits, and it kind of fills the Jace Beleren slot that older versions of the deck had.
Narset's Reversal - Another odd idea, this gives us a bit of extra counterspell insurance, and can even help stop spell based combo decks.
Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God - I'm not super high on this guy, but seeing some of the work he's doing in Standard testing, may still be worth a consideration. I currently think the format is faster than I'd like, especially for a five drop with such tricky mana, but there might be a spot for him. I don't want to have to drop the Ral, Izzet Viceroy in my version of the deck though, as I actually think Ral might be a tad better on the whole.
Tyrant's Scorn - I originally mis-read this as "Choose one or both" and got super excited. As it is, it's probably not good enough, but maybe it can work into a flex slot?
Blast Zone - There has been many times I wished I maindecked Engineered Explosives, and this let's me do so without taking a slot. It is colorless though, and while I don't personally, many of us Cruel players have Field of Ruin in the main deck. It might hinder the mana, but it might be worth a shot?
These next ones are possibly sideboard considerations:
Ashiok, Dream Render - Sideboard option for Dredge or Phoenix? The static ability might even do a bit to slow down some other decks enough that we can gain the upper hand.
Dovin, Hand of Control - Another possible consideration for spell based combo, acts like our own Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, plus it Fogs something for the turn as well, though that might not come up much in the spell matches.
4 Snapcaster Mage
Enchantment
1 Search for Azcanta
Land
3 Island
1 Mountain
2 Swamp
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
2 Steam Vents
1 Blood Crypt
2 Watery Grave
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Drowned Catacomb
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Remand
1 Logic Knot
1 Spell Snare
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Negate
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
4 Cryptic Command
2 Terminate
Sorcery
2 Thoughtseize
2 Cruel Ultimatum
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Dreadbore
Planeswalker
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Ral, Izzet Viceroy
2 Narset, Parter of Veils
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Niv-Mizzet, Parun
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Countersquall
1 Ravenous Trap
2 Dispel
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Ancestral Vision
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Collective Brutality
1 Damnation
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
Could you explain the bolded point please? This has been opposite to what I have found.
I tested the new Bolas in some matches between FNM drafts (probably about 10-12 games total, vs GB Rock, Infect, Humans, WB Midrange, Death's Shadow, and some random jank), and haven't been impressed (or at least impressed enough to remove Ral). Just because we're a Cruel ultimatum deck, doesn't mean the mana is easy to arrange. I have had many games where I needed to fetch a Steam Vents to cast Lightning Bolt, but have only ended up drawing one or two black producing lands by turn 5 (sometimes you draw your basics or an EtB tapped land). I also found that the plus ability doesn't do as much as Ral's, as I would rather be choosing the card than just drawing a random one. The exile part of it was also not relevant often enough, as many times the opponent could afford to throw away a card from their hand, or even an extra land, then swing at Bolas or myself. That ability might be good in the Control matchup though, which was one I didn't test. I also noticed a major difference between the minus and kill a creature abilities- being left at 1 loyalty is not as good as being at 2. Sure, Bolas can kill a Planeswalker, but anything can kill him after. It feels bad to have Bolas plinked by an Electrolyze, or even killed by a Noble Hierarch. While Ral can also die easily, you don't need to worry about that random 1/1 spirit killing him. I won't go into the ultimates, as both win the game on the spot, but in a vacuum, Ral gets to his faster.
I'm sure the static ability is what everyone is excited about, but I still hold to my original opinion- It won't ever do enough in a game where you get to double your planeswalkers, as you're already way ahead, and I don't think using your opponent's planeswalkers will come up often either. If you try to play this vs UW control and copy a Teferi or Jace, I highly doubt it will resolve (if it does, good for you, but that's the exception to the rule). Copying a Liliana in the Jund/BG Rock matches might work out for you, but I don't think it's worth it for that. The tron matchup is also where the static might do work, but their Karn comes down a turn or two before Bolas, so good luck with that. I can't think of any other major planeswalkers seeing play in Modern, asides from Narset now and maybe 3 mana Teferi, but I don't think they are worthwhile targets either.
It will take a lot to switch me over from Ral, as he's won me many games that would be unwinnable even with a Nicol Bolas. I will have to be shown the success before I make the change- I'm not opposed to it, but I think Bolas' home is in Standard currently.
His +1 provides card/board advantage as you not only draw a card, but remove something from your opponent's hand or board. It is not selection, sure, but depends on what you want.
His minus 3 is unconditional removal for creatures AND planeswalkers, which we struggle a bit to deal with otherwise. Ral's is conditional, it is entirely likely that by T5 you don't have, for example 5 instant/sorceries in the GY and you can't kill a big goyf or a tasigur or a big DS. The argument that "anything can kill him after" is a bit moot, because the same holds true for Ral as you also pointed out as well. Having the ability to unconditionally kill 2 different types of permanents is much more useful I think.
It's a bit irrelevant to compare ultimates, because it rarely happens and opponents usually scoop before that, but Bolas literally wins you the game the moment you ulti him, so there is that.
You would have to tweaks to your mana base I think to not have problems with Bolas' mana, namely change one of the Sulfur Falls to a Drowned Catacomb, and you could cut the Mountain for another Blood Crypt.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
I've found that I don't really need more ways to kill a most creatures, and the only times that I've struggled is if we're in the late game top-decking. It's not as if we're playing very little creature removal, though I guess it depends on the deck construction. I will concede that planeswalkers are difficult to deal with, but I would rather rely on Dreadbore, or even Bedevil/Hero's Downfall for that, as they synergize with Snapcaster and are cheaper to cast. If you're using Bolas as a Spark Harvest, it's not worth it, though if he sticks around you're fine.
I'been playing a deck with nicol bolas, dragon-god but realized it needs something to bring back planeswalker win conditions. which kind of puts my grixis build closer to ultimatum build if i put dark imitations in it.
Holding open cryptic and then having FoF available also sounds so so nice. Same with snapping back a FoF.
Of course its hard to know for sure just how great those cards will be, but I am pretty optimistic.
This is kind of why I want to have multiple Narset. Though she doesn't have the potential to win the game on her own, I don't think we really need another win condition. She pulls us ahead on card advantage, while keeping some decks from being able to catch back up, plus is cheaper, which is good since if we want to play Fact or Fiction, Jace, and Cryptic Command, we're quite loaded on 4-drops. I've already cut down to a single Jace myself- I found that while he was good, I just didn't have enough spots to safely play him against many decks (control especially). I just think having our 4 mana plays be at instant speed, where we can Cryptic Command something or just FoF, let's us be a little more versatile without sacrificing much. I found that the 'win con' part of Jace has never been relevant, as I've been able to just Bolt-Snap-Bolt or Ultimatum people before I Jace them. I just feel Narset is going to be the better (in this deck) card advantage planeswalker, as it's basically a Search For Azcanta flipped on turn three, which can find more if we have multiples.
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Kess, Dissident Mage
Land
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Blood Crypt
2 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
3 Island
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Mountain
2 Drowned Catacomb
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Fact or Fiction
2 Remand
4 Cryptic Command
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
2 Terminate
1 Archmage's Charm
Sorceries
3 Thoughtseize
2 Cruel Ultimatum
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Dreadbore
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Ral, Izzet Viceroy
2 Narset, Parter of Veils
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Countersquall
2 Dispel
1 Disdainful Stroke
2 Force of Negation
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Collective Brutality
1 Damnation
Yes, but only one card per turn (it doesn't target though, so you can't get wrecked by Surgical Extraction)