I seriously doubt you lose "significant percentage points" from having 1 Arid Mesa instead of a Flooded Strand or Scalding Tarn. I did it for a long time when I played Nahiri Control, and it rarely ever was an issue.
I can't imagine you were playing 4 Cryptic Command in Jeskai Nahiri. When you have a 4-of a card in an aggressive meta and where Blood Moon isn't exactly rampant, then yes, I think you will lose some of your games because of this. I guess "significant percentage points" was a bit of an exaggeration, but you will lose more games because you couldn't fetch basic Island than because you couldn't fetch a basic Plains to play around Blood Moon. Just my thoughts on the topic, though.
EDIT: An after-thought, but you could also make an argument that basic Plains is more important for Jeskai Nahiri than Jeskai Geist because a single Plains under a Blood Moon (and 3 other lands to go with it) let you cast Nahiri to clear the Blood Moon.
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Hey all! I took a break from control for a bit and am coming back now, but i need some help deciding what to build. I currently do not have Teferi and probably will not acquire him relatively quickly (hard to find here) so this leaves me with 2 different decks to play / build in the mean time.
Jeskai Nahiri - Could run this with 4 Nahiri or a 3/2 split of Nahiri / Jace. Also a debate of 4 remand or 2/2 remand/mana leak? I enjoy the Nahiri style and have played it before.
Jeskai Control - This would be the stock build everyone is on now except i would have to replace 2x Teferi with 2x Jace.. I am aware that Teferi is technically better and this is where the decision comes in because i am not sure the deck is worth running as it is with 2x Jace or if i should just play the Nahiri package until i acquire the Teferi.
Hey all! I took a break from control for a bit and am coming back now, but i need some help deciding what to build. I currently do not have Teferi and probably will not acquire him relatively quickly (hard to find here) so this leaves me with 2 different decks to play / build in the mean time.
Jeskai Nahiri - Could run this with 4 Nahiri or a 3/2 split of Nahiri / Jace. Also a debate of 4 remand or 2/2 remand/mana leak? I enjoy the Nahiri style and have played it before.
Jeskai Control - This would be the stock build everyone is on now except i would have to replace 2x Teferi with 2x Jace.. I am aware that Teferi is technically better and this is where the decision comes in because i am not sure the deck is worth running as it is with 2x Jace or if i should just play the Nahiri package until i acquire the Teferi.
Let me know your thoughts and opinions please
Playing Control without Teferi is fine, although I hope you manage to find a copy or two! As a left-field suggestion, I would suggest you pick up some copies of Saheeli Rai and play Jeskai Midrange / Felidar Combo and use your 1x or 2x Jace in that shell. I feel it his best home in the colours.
It's also the most fun to play... you get Saheeli, Jace, Resto and even Kiki-Jiki if you feel like it! Having a combo finisher is also a nice way to give yourself some free wins as you settle back in to the archetype.
I will always recommend Jeskai Nahiri, I think it is a very strong deck (although your matchup against the current stock Teferi jeskai list will not be that great). My list currently runs 3 Nahiri 1 Teferi, but that Teferi can easily be a Jace as Jace has very strong synergy with Nahiri. If you pack some good disruption like Alpine Moon, your clock is also quick enough to have a good shot at besting tron
On the previous discussions;
-I agree with theAller that you should go full flash with Opt and Queller of you want that kind of build. Geist just seems so bad right now and aggressive EOT snap opts are really powerful
-I think a single Snare is the right minimum, and play more if they are especially good in the meta
- if you have 8 on colour fetches you will never play enough matches to see a significant difference in performance. That being said, in Nahiri I like my spliy of 4 flooded 2 arid 2 scalding, and I even run a second plains over the third island. I play 2 cryptic for the record.
-I mailed with Jeff Hoogland about the Nahiri list and he was very clear about disliking Remand. I run 2 Leak 1 Knot as thr cmc3 countersuit myself
I like Jeskai Tempo more, but I want it to be competitive. I would like Jeskai tempo to win Jeskai control, because everyone plays Jeskai Control (Teferi).
some experience?
well there is playstyle preference to consider. the fact that you actually have to play the decks often goes unremarked, and you gain an edge when you play something you are familiar with or enjoy (ie you put more effort into succeeding).
that out of the way, big jeskai has simply seen much better results on all competitive stages. i havent felt the need to move into a tempo list for quite a while, and i personally think the azcanta + teferi engine is just better than main deck geists and quellers at the moment.
my suggestion is not to worry too much about what version is better. the core of powerful cards is largely the same. past that what you gain and lose depends on what is going on around you. if you are looking for a starting point i dont think tempo is a bad place since its proactive, and cards like geist and queller can take games on their own while you learn the format. if you are thinking about the jeskai control matchup specifically; geist is great, queller less so.
for myself i dont really care if more people play big jeskai (or UWx in general) because ive been on the deck for years now. its a control mirror, so experience and skill is often the decider.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Hey all! I took a break from control for a bit and am coming back now, but i need some help deciding what to build. I currently do not have Teferi and probably will not acquire him relatively quickly (hard to find here) so this leaves me with 2 different decks to play / build in the mean time.
Jeskai Nahiri - Could run this with 4 Nahiri or a 3/2 split of Nahiri / Jace. Also a debate of 4 remand or 2/2 remand/mana leak? I enjoy the Nahiri style and have played it before.
Jeskai Control - This would be the stock build everyone is on now except i would have to replace 2x Teferi with 2x Jace.. I am aware that Teferi is technically better and this is where the decision comes in because i am not sure the deck is worth running as it is with 2x Jace or if i should just play the Nahiri package until i acquire the Teferi.
Let me know your thoughts and opinions please
A bit 'out there', perhaps, but I think there's some merit to replacing the two Teferi with Vendilion Clique. It gives you additional reach to help pivot to a proactive role when needed, can trade with a variety of creatures in combat, and gives you an answer of sorts to Teferi in the control mirror. The 'floor' on Clique is pretty low -- it's nearly always a decent card -- while Jace has proven to be a bit underwhelming in Modern, I think.
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Legacy:UWR Miracles (MTGS Primer) || Modern:UWR Jeskai Control Commander:UBR Jeleva/Kess Storm, UR Mizzix Combo, U Rayne/Azami Wizards
An appallingly dull fellow, unimaginative, timid, lacking in initiative, spineless, easily dominated, no sense of humour, tedious company, and irrepressibly drab and awful.
clique is a great card for the reasons you pointed out, however i wouldnt consider it a good replacement. they are just too different in application. we need a few ways to turn the corner, azcanta is part of that, and walkers are another.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Yo I was checking out Hareruya and all the "WUR Traft" decks or what we call "Jeskai Tempo/Traft" and I noticed a few things.
Alot of them run opt, mostly all run less than 4 cryptic command and a few run lightning angel.
Some other things to note. Less than 4 colonnades (which we already know)and more than 2 geist. Very interesting lists. Some even run 1 of mana leaks and you can find some playing teferi and jace mainboard along with Geist.
If you haven't tried Baneslayer/Lyra in the side yet you definitely should - they have been completely absurd to me in so many matchups
Whoever came up with that innovation deserves a medal
Truth.
This is the earliest competative finish for a UWx Midrange/Control deck running Baneslayer Angel that I could find on MTGTop8. The deck is labeled 'UW Angels' - and is very similar to Jeskai Midrange / Geists lists that appear in 2013, also with Baneslayer in the side.
'UW Angels - Emanuel Sutor - Grand Prix Lyon 2012, 2nd Place
But any creature based MU that threatens your life total, and that also is expected to NOT have access to removal for her, are also good. E.g. Jund post-board, where I would not expect Terminate or Dismember. Careful of Lili of course. Or Humans post board where you expect them to take reflector mage out.
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Modern Decks
------------ URW Jeskai Control GUWRB Amulet Titan GR Ponza
I bring Baneslayer and Lyra in a lot, both in grindy and aggro matchups. Basically any fair matchup where postboard you can expect them to not have much removal left.
It depends on what you want to cut, I like bringing them in since I have more to cut than to bring in again. Considering the mirror ends up being about burn quite often the life swing really matters, but you have to watch out you don't get teferi'd the moment you tap out for baneslayer
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I can't imagine you were playing 4 Cryptic Command in Jeskai Nahiri. When you have a 4-of a card in an aggressive meta and where Blood Moon isn't exactly rampant, then yes, I think you will lose some of your games because of this. I guess "significant percentage points" was a bit of an exaggeration, but you will lose more games because you couldn't fetch basic Island than because you couldn't fetch a basic Plains to play around Blood Moon. Just my thoughts on the topic, though.
EDIT: An after-thought, but you could also make an argument that basic Plains is more important for Jeskai Nahiri than Jeskai Geist because a single Plains under a Blood Moon (and 3 other lands to go with it) let you cast Nahiri to clear the Blood Moon.
Jeskai Nahiri - Could run this with 4 Nahiri or a 3/2 split of Nahiri / Jace. Also a debate of 4 remand or 2/2 remand/mana leak? I enjoy the Nahiri style and have played it before.
Jeskai Control - This would be the stock build everyone is on now except i would have to replace 2x Teferi with 2x Jace.. I am aware that Teferi is technically better and this is where the decision comes in because i am not sure the deck is worth running as it is with 2x Jace or if i should just play the Nahiri package until i acquire the Teferi.
Let me know your thoughts and opinions please
Spirits
Playing Control without Teferi is fine, although I hope you manage to find a copy or two! As a left-field suggestion, I would suggest you pick up some copies of Saheeli Rai and play Jeskai Midrange / Felidar Combo and use your 1x or 2x Jace in that shell. I feel it his best home in the colours.
It's also the most fun to play... you get Saheeli, Jace, Resto and even Kiki-Jiki if you feel like it! Having a combo finisher is also a nice way to give yourself some free wins as you settle back in to the archetype.
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
-I agree with theAller that you should go full flash with Opt and Queller of you want that kind of build. Geist just seems so bad right now and aggressive EOT snap opts are really powerful
-I think a single Snare is the right minimum, and play more if they are especially good in the meta
- if you have 8 on colour fetches you will never play enough matches to see a significant difference in performance. That being said, in Nahiri I like my spliy of 4 flooded 2 arid 2 scalding, and I even run a second plains over the third island. I play 2 cryptic for the record.
-I mailed with Jeff Hoogland about the Nahiri list and he was very clear about disliking Remand. I run 2 Leak 1 Knot as thr cmc3 countersuit myself
well there is playstyle preference to consider. the fact that you actually have to play the decks often goes unremarked, and you gain an edge when you play something you are familiar with or enjoy (ie you put more effort into succeeding).
that out of the way, big jeskai has simply seen much better results on all competitive stages. i havent felt the need to move into a tempo list for quite a while, and i personally think the azcanta + teferi engine is just better than main deck geists and quellers at the moment.
my suggestion is not to worry too much about what version is better. the core of powerful cards is largely the same. past that what you gain and lose depends on what is going on around you. if you are looking for a starting point i dont think tempo is a bad place since its proactive, and cards like geist and queller can take games on their own while you learn the format. if you are thinking about the jeskai control matchup specifically; geist is great, queller less so.
for myself i dont really care if more people play big jeskai (or UWx in general) because ive been on the deck for years now. its a control mirror, so experience and skill is often the decider.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)A bit 'out there', perhaps, but I think there's some merit to replacing the two Teferi with Vendilion Clique. It gives you additional reach to help pivot to a proactive role when needed, can trade with a variety of creatures in combat, and gives you an answer of sorts to Teferi in the control mirror. The 'floor' on Clique is pretty low -- it's nearly always a decent card -- while Jace has proven to be a bit underwhelming in Modern, I think.
Commander: UBR Jeleva/Kess Storm, UR Mizzix Combo, U Rayne/Azami Wizards
An appallingly dull fellow, unimaginative, timid, lacking in initiative, spineless, easily dominated, no sense of humour, tedious company, and irrepressibly drab and awful.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Whoever came up with that innovation deserves a medal
Alot of them run opt, mostly all run less than 4 cryptic command and a few run lightning angel.
Some other things to note. Less than 4 colonnades (which we already know)and more than 2 geist. Very interesting lists. Some even run 1 of mana leaks and you can find some playing teferi and jace mainboard along with Geist.
Alot of interesting stuff check it out here.
http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/deck/search.aspx?search.x=true&format=Modern&releasedt_type=1&name_je_type=1&archetype=A000236
RUAffinityUR
GMono Green StompyG
CEldrazi TronC
URWJeskai GeistWRU
WRBoros BurnRW
BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
Spirits
Truth.
This is the earliest competative finish for a UWx Midrange/Control deck running Baneslayer Angel that I could find on MTGTop8. The deck is labeled 'UW Angels' - and is very similar to Jeskai Midrange / Geists lists that appear in 2013, also with Baneslayer in the side.
'UW Angels - Emanuel Sutor - Grand Prix Lyon 2012, 2nd Place
https://mtgtop8.com/event?e=4233&d=224725&f=MO
'Jeskai Midrange' - Mitchell Manders- Grand Prix Bilbao 2013, 1st Place
https://mtgtop8.com/event?e=4233&d=224725&f=MO
And then this is the first occasion I could find Baneslayer in a UW(x) Control list in the Eldrazi era.
https://mtgtop8.com/event?e=15029&d=290968&f=MO
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
The most obvious ones are;
Eldrazi decks
Hollow One
But any creature based MU that threatens your life total, and that also is expected to NOT have access to removal for her, are also good. E.g. Jund post-board, where I would not expect Terminate or Dismember. Careful of Lili of course. Or Humans post board where you expect them to take reflector mage out.
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza