MTG Salvation

I'm curious, what matchups do you like Alpine Moon? Obviously good for tron but I feel weird sideboarding for tron when our matchup is already so terrible... almost feels like a lost cause.

Quote from TonySoprano »

I'm curious, what matchups do you like Alpine Moon? Obviously good for tron but I feel weird sideboarding for tron when our matchup is already so terrible... almost feels like a lost cause.

GW-f'ing-Value Town. Screw getting Ghost Quarter'd out of the game. I also hate Affinity (A LOT). Even without Karn, I don't think that matchup was on solid ground. It was good, but they definitely get their shots. Alpine Moon at least takes away some of their creature-lands. I guess it can also do things against Cavern of Souls, but I'm not so much interested in that. And let's not forgot, Valakut is a problem for us. Maybe the rest of the format may be fine with it, but I don't think we are. Screwing Tron is just a bonus.

I still have to test whether Alpine Moon is worth it in other matchups than Tron and Valakut. It seems decent versus a lot of decks but often I wonder if it is worth a card, like versus affinity

Quote from Bearscape »

I still have to test whether Alpine Moon is worth it in other matchups than Tron and Valakut. It seems decent versus a lot of decks but often I wonder if it is worth a card, like versus affinity

What version of Jeskai are you planning on testing it in? I'd like to know how it goes since I'm a bit tied up doing some experimental stuff with Jund.

So, I tried Jeskai at my 28 person FNM. Had some fail moments...bear with me.

Round 1 vs. UW Enchantress. This is our Enchantress Enduring Ideal player. He plays a bunch of Enchantments. I keep countermagic for what matters, then wait until I draw Teferi, protect him, Emblem, and then exile 3 Ghostly Prison so I can attack. Had some dead Path to Exiles and a Supreme Verdict in hand, despite turn 2 Search for Azcanta and 3 Serum Visions, but got there easily. In the next game, he has Boseiju, Who Shelters All. He floods out badly and I slowly throw Burn his way. He resolves Enduring Ideal and gets Dovescape. I cast Cryptic Command to get 4 1/1 Doves, bounce the Dovescape with Teferi, and bounce Phyrexian Unlife before damage for lethal. Pretty easy. Just time consuming. 2-0.

Round 2 vs. Mono Red Prison. I tap out for Search for Azcanta with him only having a Mountain in play. He does Pyretic Ritual into Blood Moon. He gets a Hazoret, the Fervent on turn 4 and I never see a basic land while milling cards with Search. In the next game, I fetch some basics. I think I should have fetched at least 1 Red source, as I drew a late Lightning Helix and then I didn't realize that Chandra, Torch of Defiance ultimates at 7. I should have attacked it with Celestial Colonnade and if I had Red mana, I could have Helixed it earlier. This would have put me dead to the Simian Spirit Guide in a few turns and the Magma Jet that he said he had in hand. I was at 10, but I could possibly have drawn removal for the SSG, especially if I had Red mana. Big mistake fetching the Plains and double Island with the last Island in hand. I'm pretty sure that this game would have been lost, but I punted it pretty hard when it should have been a close loss. 0-2.

Round 3 vs. UR Delver/Pyromancer.He plays Delver. I Bolt it right away in case he has main board Dispel. He then plays Young Pyromancer and I kill that soon too. He eventually uses Burn to get me low. I have Search flipped, but can't or shouldn't activate it or die with a flurry of Burn. I get out some Secure the Wastes tokens and 2 Snapcaster Mage after killing his 2 Snapcaster Mage. He has 1 turn to get me before I kill him. I'm at 2. He draws...Opt. Opt, draw...Opt. Opt #2 draw … Snapcaster Mage for the last Bolt in his graveyard with me at 2 life. My last 2 cards were 2 Path to Exile that I drew for my last 2 draw steps. Was kind of hoping for Bolt so that I could have killed him instead. In the next game, I put him on a bunch of Snapcaster Mages, Cryptic Command, Remands, and Dispel. I Path to Exile Delver. I Snapcaster Mage/Path to Exile Young Pyromancer. He plays Keranos, God of Storms. Didn't know that card was still played and it was the only card I didn't account for. He had 1 fewer Snapcaster Mage than I thought, but the Keranos killed me when he drew literally everything he needed from the top of his deck. Good on him. I shouldn't have ramped him to Keranos. I should have taken some slower beats from Young Pyromancer or Delver. It would have been nice to draw a Lightning Bolt in this matchup or heaven forbid, a freaking Lightning Helix, but you can't be mad when you guessed a single card in their hand incorrectly. Keranos...won't make that mistake again. 0-2.

Round 4 vs. Titanshift. It wouldn't be right to NOT play 1 of 2 guys I came with, right? I counter all his stuff that matters and Burn him out with Celestial Colonnade to finish him. Now I get to be on the side that drew "all the answers." Felt nice to finally draw Lightning Helix finally. I felt that the 3 of was nearly the same as playing 0 of them until this round. In the next game after a Search for Azcanta, I couldn't find a 4th land and lose to some gas. The 3rd game is similar to Game 1 in a balancing act of making sure not to take lethal and a Gaea's Revenge threw a wrench into that, but multiple Snapcaster Mage, all 3 Lightning Helix and flashback, and Secure the Wastes with Elspeth, Sun's Champion to finish him off got it done. He went for Beast Within on my Celestial Colonnade for lethal, so I used the Logic Knot that I was saving. 2-1.

I go 2-2. Pretty bad considering I punted several games, games that I probably should have lost in a super close way. Do you mulligan hands that don't have Bolt? Or do you occasionally accept that even with Serum Visions and Search for Azcanta, you often won't draw Lightning Bolts when needed? After I got the Chandra ultimate on me in Round 2, my top 4 cards were Celestial Purge, Vendilion Clique, Vendilion Clique, and Celestial Purge in that order.

Quote from chaos021 »

Quote from Bearscape »

I still have to test whether Alpine Moon is worth it in other matchups than Tron and Valakut. It seems decent versus a lot of decks but often I wonder if it is worth a card, like versus affinity

What version of Jeskai are you planning on testing it in? I'd like to know how it goes since I'm a bit tied up doing some experimental stuff with Jund.

Nahiri and the common longrange Teferi build. I used to bring in Spreading Seas vs affinity, but although Alpine Moon is cheaper, not cantripping might have you end up dying to a real threat. It probably depends on how many cards you board out otherwise.

bearscape would you mind posting your nahiri list with sb?

Do you mulligan hands that don't have Bolt? Or do you occasionally accept that even with Serum Visions and Search for Azcanta, you often won't draw Lightning Bolts when needed?

No. The biggest priorities for me are getting my mana developed, having some smoothing (Serum, Search) and then just settling in for the grind. UR Pyro can be a tough match up, or an easy one, all depends on if your removal guts him or not, so I wouldnt worry too much there. The Red Prison loss that one probably hurts more, but you got the Titanshift game, so good on you there. :]

I trust that eventually I'll find a bolt or 2, but you generally want some kind of removal (Path/Helix/Bolt) and ways to ensure your mana develops on time.

I'm just a bit upset mostly because I played poorly. In the past, I've been able to do well with whatever I pick up. Since I began playing more times per week, I haven't been able to keep this up. It slowly went away. I think I have to deal with the fact that playing too much made me become a terrible player.

In the 2nd round, I could not have beaten him in Game 1. I had a single Scalding Tarn, so if I knew what was up, I could have gotten an Island. But I wouldn't have had White for the Path to Exile in my hand that was angry that a Hazoret was pounding me while Blood Moon was in play. I probably could have won Game 2, considering Celestial Purge(s) and Vendilion Clique(s) were my next 4 cards. Not sure what would have happened in Game 3. I over fetched around Blood Moon, which he didn't play since I only had Blue and White mana sources after drawing Celestial Colonnade and Glacial Fortress.

In Round 3, I just didn't expect Keranos. The guy plays some odd cards in Delver. He got me with Cryptic Command weeks ago, which I did not expect in Delver. He also has flipped Delver every single time immediately. It's hard to keep up with threat + 1 more than my answers even if theoretically I should have more answers. A single Lightning Helix probably wins me either game, but I can't count on my deck bailing me out.

In Round 4 honestly I just drew all the answers. I've been on the Titanshift side when they draw every single answer while you're praying that they drew some Supreme Verdict, Path to Exile, direct damage but not too much, and other cards that don't interact well with Titanshift. I just literally got lucky in that match, although yes, a mistake would have been costly. The games I won were close. The one I lost was NOT.

Thats kind of the story with the deck. I've only truly dumpstered someone when they were on Jund, when the infamous 'my answers were perfect every time' happened. It was shocking. The early moon is a killing with this deck, for sure, we have no main deck answer to a quick moon, and depending on your counter suite, you may have simply no chance so yeah, it sucks.

Other than Dispel, or Snare, there's nothing saving you in that scenario (unless you run a pierce...) but yeah. Thats just magic. I locked out an RG Eldrazi player just now with Moon, couldnt cast anything of relevance since he needed the colourless instead of R, but I feel no sadness for him, he runs Eldrazi and Caverns.

I'm assuming you were playing UR Breach?

Yeah, I like to be able to get in a quick game online, and UWR, simply cannot be quick. Sold a bunch of stuff today to foil it out a bit.

Ben's Team Top 4 this weekend, really like his list, but no way in hell I could play 27 lands lol!

http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/122336

He said that list is incorrect. Should only be 25 lands with one of each check land instead of 2

Oh thank goodness. I was actually so thrown by that I was thinking it over out at dinner!

Yeah it definitely threw me for a loop. I love the list though, as it reminds me of old jeskai with no serums. 2 colonnades are my only issue.

I've been on 2 for a very long time. It's got so many things that bug me.

So how many Serum Visions does it play?

I've always been tempted to try Jeskai Control. I think it's the one deck where multiple players have nut drawn me the most (when I'm on creature decks). Grixis is another one where players have nut drawn me, but it's mostly just 2 guys. I get jealous when my opponent plays 4 Lightning Bolt by turn 3 and I know that they have 2-3 Snappies in hand. I want to be that dude, although I also realize that it's somewhat scary if you don't also have Path to Exile to back it up because there are no more Bolt in the deck; only Snappies to get back Bolts, but then if they have grave hate. My old self (when I played Control exclusively) remembers when I wiped the board, then played a powerful threat that could not be answered, Teferi, Hero of Dominaria in this case. Feels good. I think I'll try Jeskai again this FNM.

And I understand how the deck works. I'm saying when an opponent does Bolt turn 1, then double Bolt turn 2, then Bolt and Lightning Helix on turn 3. Then hits each land drop to 5, casting Teferi, while having either Snapcaster Mage and Cryptic Command in hand also. I mean, I understand it happens, but it shouldn't be happening in all 3 games, right? I mean, Ben plays 3 Lightning Bolt. I play 3 Lightning Bolt. It is at least somewhat a "slap in the face" when someone casts 4 by turn 3 when I'm expecting 3 at the most.

I mean, I'm trying to get a better insight on how to beat the deck as well. You need to jam threats to force their hand to empty early or tax their mana, but also play around Supreme Verdict or don't if you can't beat it anyway and pray/hope. The main problem I have in finding out how to beat a deck by playing the deck is that I don't draw the same things as my opponents, despite the actual cards being 4 ofs. Maybe I need to test more or don't shuffle their deck too much. Overshuffling is a thing.

4 Bolts by Turn 3 is Christmas land. I've had it...like once against a Breach player.

Most people are on 4 Serum. h0lydiva played Ben's list and hated it, while pulling a 5-0 on UW Miracles last night so.../shrug

I've had the nuts on Breach, far far more than UWR, and I've played it a fraction of the time.

What is the consensus on Surgical in the SB? I really want to devote two slots to it, but I am finding it harder and harder to justify lately. Seems like no one is running it in the popular / successful builds.