Snare is definitely good vs uw/x. It hits snap/leak/negate/sfa, sometimes sideboard stuff too, all for 1 mana.
Teferi + bolts + manlands are answers to planeswalkers, and while sphere is reasonable, I don't think its great in jeskai.
If you're not registering terminus, then you're making the decision that bloodghast/bridge decks are a bad matchup. Adding sphere seems like too much of a half-measure.
I'd rather see another jace, or a pnk, or a 4 mana gideon or something over keranos since they leave value behind if they get trophy-ed. As much as I don't love elspeth sun's champion, that also seems better than keranos to me.
I personally would play atleast 1 copy of search, and I'd play the 8th fetch over a glacial/sulfur falls.
You forget that Keranos cant get Trophy-ed ;). I dont think the card is great either, its slow on does nothing when it enters the battlefield BUT it is pretty hard to remove... we'll see with the upcoming meta
Yea that wasn't worded very well.
The 4 drops can get trophied (at value to us), but they're better in a lot of other matchups. If I wanted a bomb, I'd rather have something thats versatile, even if its trophy-able.
Keranos is very narrow, and while its nigh-unkillable for GBX, its not even all that strong against UWX.
With reference to this build of Jeskai Kiki-Tempo? (no idea what to call this), would you consider 4 Restoration Angel necessary or would it be alright to cut down to 3 Angels? Also, is Teferi wanted or necessary in this build? It felt awkward to unless I went towards more control elements during sideboarding. As such, I kinda wanted to move it to the sideboard permanently. I wasn't sure if you had a good reason for keeping this in the main deck though.
The general meta shift we should see is an influx of decks leveraging Assassin's Trophy. Which I think is good for us as I haven't seen a BGx deck yet that can box up to the blues brothers Teferi and Jace. I am however shifting away a bit from Detention Sphere and my beloved gideon of the trials isn't that great versus it either. Finding room for a spell snare in the main seems good, otherwise the miracle version can just keep on trucking as even getting jace or teferi AT'd is still a 3 for 1 in our favour.
It's still a 2 for 1 in a grindy MU, if they want to kill SFA before it flips I will often gladly take the ramp, and if they do it after it flips I probably got an activation off first.
Maybe I'm missing something, but Search for Azcanta was the sole reason I dumpster-ed GBx decks with Jeskai. If they can regularly answer that card (before or after flipping), I really don't see that as a net positive. This is just anecdotal but I have played that match from both sides. Search for Azcanta is enemy #1 when I'm on Jund against blue control decks.
I think I am still OK with trophy hitting Azcanta. It seems better that and get ramped into an early PW than play a PW on curve to get it trophied? Or, in other terms, presenting enough threats that their trophies are pressured. I may even be fine using Azcanta ad Trophy bait in that scenario.
Just spitballing.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern Decks
------------ URW Jeskai Control GUWRB Amulet Titan GR Ponza
I really don't believe there is such a thing as "getting it [Search for Azcanta or Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin] too late" either. Leaving it in play is a surefire way to get dead quickly. It's almost as cute as when people leave Dark Confidant in play hoping it kills their pilot. I've buried many Modern neophytes who have made such mistakes. This pretty much amounts to the same thing. If Jeskai were closer to UW with several planeswalkers that can effectively end you once they untap, I might agree with all the naysayers talking about that tempo loss from Assassin's Trophy being a big deal. The problem is that Jeskai doesn't really have that many homerun hitters. If you know what you're doing, you really shouldn't care about a Cryptic Command or a Teferi, Hero of Dominaria coming down one turn early. If Jund is doing it's thing properly, discard spells and appropriately played threats (creature lands included) will force them to interact on your terms. Jeskai is usually stretched thin trying to have enough answers to get to a stable board state. The problem I had with the Jund side of the matchup was literally having appropriate removal for the threats they do have. The answers I needed for Celestial Colonnade, Teferi and Search for Azcanta were narrow and/or slow. Assassin's Trophy fixes the issue most GBx pilots will have with their removal spells. So on top of getting Jeskai back into top deck mode (as GB pilots hope), I know that Jund in particular will have less issues trying to figure out how many sideboard slots to devote to these control matches.
In short, tempo is usually the least of my issues when I'm on Jund against a deck trying to buy time. Will the land make a difference? Absolutely. Will most GB pilots care? To some extent, sure. Are they not going to blow your crap up anyway? Good luck with that. Tempo is for decks that can make timely use of said tempo, such as other midrange decks, burn, zoo and combo decks with hard-to-deal with pieces. I doubt the slow burn deck is the one I'm scared of playing Trophy against.
My approach for the new meta will be to go back to Secure the Wastes and Sphinx's Revelation. They are also way better vs UW Control compared to Azcanta. Paired with Jace and Teferi they should be enough to grind out even the new BGx decks.
Would you not consider a return to Ancestral Vision instead of either of those?
I've been out of the game for a bit but I'm looking to jump back in. Question though - Looks as though there is a Baneslayer Angel in every SB now, what's it for?
2-1 Vs. Hollow One
2-0 Vs. Bant Company
2-0 Vs. UW Miracles
2-1 Vs. U-Tron
I wanted to ask which sideboard plan you all like better for my list Vs. UW Control. On one hand, I enjoy keeping a high burn count post-board as I feel the red spells offer a flexible angle of attack that UW is ill equipped for over a long game. However, I have a full 10 cards that are excellent in the match up to bring in from the board, so cutting burn is tempting.
This is how I have boarded against UW in the past with this list;
Vs. UW Control
----------
-3 Helix
-3 Bolt
-3 Terminus
-1 Path
Looking to pick holes in my in and out choices here, so feedback welcome! Azcanta and Knot got cut because I expected RIP, and I have the 2 Visions as good replacements.
In the past, I've considered my post-board set up as more than up to the task of grinding a traditional Control game, but something keep telling me it's more correct to keep the burn.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern Decks
------------ URW Jeskai Control GUWRB Amulet Titan GR Ponza
I really like your maindeck configuration! There are a two sideboard cards I am less enamored with though, Counterflux in particular. I suppose it's good if you face many control mirrors, but it seems a little lackluster as a sideboard option. Have you found it to be broadly useful? There are so many possible sideboard includes with UWR that I wonder if there are better uses of those slots.
A more general comment about Stony Silence. Have people been happy with this? I feel like all the decks you bring it in against max out on Nature's Claim, resulting in it not being the stone cold lock it used to be. My concern could just be from my own anecdotal experience (with low statistical weight).
Agree with aller here.
I think angels are bad in the mirror (sorcery speed threat, gets countered, removed, hit by planeswalkers, etc. There was an argument to be made before teferi, but now they're not worth the space over anything reasonable.)
Cutting cryptic in control mirrors is ok, but you still want some, and you're only playing 2 to begin with.
Leaving 1-2 path in is ok, but I think you have enough sideboard cards to not have to.
You might consider changing your sideboard though, and you may have too many cards against control.
The counterfluxes in particular could become something else (damping spheres, or wear//tears, celestial purge, staticaster, timely, etc)
I will likely try something close to your suggested board next time! I would like to find a way to keep in 1x Path or 1x Azcanta though!
Regarding Counterflux;
Counterflux is, in my opinion, a very strong and underutilized card, but I do get that the 3cmc tag is off-putting. I wanted my sideboard to be full of stack-based interaction (local meta full of storm and UWx), since adopting Terminus has meant lowering my main-deck Countermagic numbers. I usually bring it in for;
-UWx
-Storm
-URx
-Ad Naus
-Tron
-Scapeshift
I'm open to changes, and those Fluxes can definately be flexed. I may indeed just have too many cards for the mirror.
Regarding Angels;
You've all convinced me they are bad in the mirror, which follows my own experiences.
I think my next board plan will look something like this;
Control mirrors are actually really wacky right now, as you would think there is some grace to them. But in reality what mostly happens is just an infinite staredown until someone slams a threat, that gets fought over and then the other player takes the opportunity to slam their threat. AV has been really mediocre in that regard because even though it is free the turn you cast it you're still fighting over it on your turn so once the dust clears your opponent will still be able to slam their Teferi or Jace. More proactive cards like Geist are much better in the mirror (even though I personally dislike Geist). I would replace AV with the second Geist and some other bomb like sunny elspeth. Luminarch Ascension is also something I've seen but I think is too narrow.
Another cheeky trick in the mirror is to bring in Timely Reinforcements because resolving the 3 tokens vs a Snapcaster is very tough to deal with
So how has playing against Assassin's Trophy fared for all of you? So far I still think we are heavily favoured against most BGx decks, although Jund has been impressive.
What do you all think about bringing in Angels versus BGx? I'm not certain yet, as although an angel that sticks obviously ends the game, they have a lot of ways to remove them and trading down in mana without gaining any value from the card is just really bad. Against the aggro decks, an angel generally means they have to answer it immediately or the game ends, vs BGx, losing after an angel hit is still very much possible
You forget that Keranos cant get Trophy-ed ;). I dont think the card is great either, its slow on does nothing when it enters the battlefield BUT it is pretty hard to remove... we'll see with the upcoming meta
The 4 drops can get trophied (at value to us), but they're better in a lot of other matchups. If I wanted a bomb, I'd rather have something thats versatile, even if its trophy-able.
Keranos is very narrow, and while its nigh-unkillable for GBX, its not even all that strong against UWX.
Back on main-deck bolts because I missed snap bolting people too much.
2-1 Vs. Jeskai Aggro
2-1 Vs. Ponza
2-0 Vs. Martyr Proc
2-0 Vs . Eldrazi Taxes
Jeskai Miracle (U/W/R): Jeskai Miracle
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
Planeswalkers (4)
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
Instants and Sorceries (24)
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Opt
4 Path to Exile
1 Secure the Wastes
1 Spell Snare
3 Lightning Helix
2 Logic Knot
1 Negate
2 Cryptic Command
3 Terminus
2 Search for Azcanta
Lands (25)
3 Celestial Colonnade
3 Field of Ruin
4 Flooded Strand
1 Glacial Fortress
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Baneslayer Angel
2 Ancestral Vision
2 Dispel
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Negate
2 Counterflux
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Stony Silence
Shared via TopDecked MTG https://www.topdecked.me/decks/ad750b48-5273-4966-9d46-75f527686d58
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
With reference to this build of Jeskai Kiki-Tempo? (no idea what to call this), would you consider 4 Restoration Angel necessary or would it be alright to cut down to 3 Angels? Also, is Teferi wanted or necessary in this build? It felt awkward to unless I went towards more control elements during sideboarding. As such, I kinda wanted to move it to the sideboard permanently. I wasn't sure if you had a good reason for keeping this in the main deck though.
Just spitballing.
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
I really don't believe there is such a thing as "getting it [Search for Azcanta or Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin] too late" either. Leaving it in play is a surefire way to get dead quickly. It's almost as cute as when people leave Dark Confidant in play hoping it kills their pilot. I've buried many Modern neophytes who have made such mistakes. This pretty much amounts to the same thing. If Jeskai were closer to UW with several planeswalkers that can effectively end you once they untap, I might agree with all the naysayers talking about that tempo loss from Assassin's Trophy being a big deal. The problem is that Jeskai doesn't really have that many homerun hitters. If you know what you're doing, you really shouldn't care about a Cryptic Command or a Teferi, Hero of Dominaria coming down one turn early. If Jund is doing it's thing properly, discard spells and appropriately played threats (creature lands included) will force them to interact on your terms. Jeskai is usually stretched thin trying to have enough answers to get to a stable board state. The problem I had with the Jund side of the matchup was literally having appropriate removal for the threats they do have. The answers I needed for Celestial Colonnade, Teferi and Search for Azcanta were narrow and/or slow. Assassin's Trophy fixes the issue most GBx pilots will have with their removal spells. So on top of getting Jeskai back into top deck mode (as GB pilots hope), I know that Jund in particular will have less issues trying to figure out how many sideboard slots to devote to these control matches.
In short, tempo is usually the least of my issues when I'm on Jund against a deck trying to buy time. Will the land make a difference? Absolutely. Will most GB pilots care? To some extent, sure. Are they not going to blow your crap up anyway? Good luck with that. Tempo is for decks that can make timely use of said tempo, such as other midrange decks, burn, zoo and combo decks with hard-to-deal with pieces. I doubt the slow burn deck is the one I'm scared of playing Trophy against.
Would you not consider a return to Ancestral Vision instead of either of those?
I've been out of the game for a bit but I'm looking to jump back in. Question though - Looks as though there is a Baneslayer Angel in every SB now, what's it for?
This is the 60 I'm looking to start with:
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
2 Search for Azcanta
4 Terminus
2 Spell Snare
4 Opt
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Logic Knot
3 Lightning Helix
3 Cryptic Command
3 Celestial Colonnade
2 Hallowed Fountain
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Field of Ruin
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
I figured playing a couple Spell Snare to combat Assassin's Trophy is a good place to start.
Jeskai Control
Mardu Pyromancer
RIP GU Infect
Spirits
Jeskai Miracle (U/W/R): Jeskai Miracle
Shared via TopDecked MTG https://www.topdecked.me/decks/ad750b48-5273-4966-9d46-75f527686d58
2-1 Vs. Hollow One
2-0 Vs. Bant Company
2-0 Vs. UW Miracles
2-1 Vs. U-Tron
I wanted to ask which sideboard plan you all like better for my list Vs. UW Control. On one hand, I enjoy keeping a high burn count post-board as I feel the red spells offer a flexible angle of attack that UW is ill equipped for over a long game. However, I have a full 10 cards that are excellent in the match up to bring in from the board, so cutting burn is tempting.
This is how I have boarded against UW in the past with this list;
Vs. UW Control
----------
-3 Helix
-3 Bolt
-3 Terminus
-1 Path
+1 Geist
+1 Clique
+1 Baneslayer
+2 Dispel
+2 Counterflux
+1 Negate
+2 Ancestral Vision
And this is how I boarded tonight (keeping all 6 burn spells).
-2 Path
-3 Terminus
-1 Cryptic
-2 Azcanta
-2 Logic Knot
+1 Geist
+1 Clique
+1 Baneslayer
+2 Dispel
+2 Counterflux
+1 Negate
+2 Ancestral Vision
Looking to pick holes in my in and out choices here, so feedback welcome! Azcanta and Knot got cut because I expected RIP, and I have the 2 Visions as good replacements.
In the past, I've considered my post-board set up as more than up to the task of grinding a traditional Control game, but something keep telling me it's more correct to keep the burn.
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
I really like your maindeck configuration! There are a two sideboard cards I am less enamored with though, Counterflux in particular. I suppose it's good if you face many control mirrors, but it seems a little lackluster as a sideboard option. Have you found it to be broadly useful? There are so many possible sideboard includes with UWR that I wonder if there are better uses of those slots.
A more general comment about Stony Silence. Have people been happy with this? I feel like all the decks you bring it in against max out on Nature's Claim, resulting in it not being the stone cold lock it used to be. My concern could just be from my own anecdotal experience (with low statistical weight).
I think angels are bad in the mirror (sorcery speed threat, gets countered, removed, hit by planeswalkers, etc. There was an argument to be made before teferi, but now they're not worth the space over anything reasonable.)
Cutting cryptic in control mirrors is ok, but you still want some, and you're only playing 2 to begin with.
Leaving 1-2 path in is ok, but I think you have enough sideboard cards to not have to.
You might consider changing your sideboard though, and you may have too many cards against control.
The counterfluxes in particular could become something else (damping spheres, or wear//tears, celestial purge, staticaster, timely, etc)
@TheAller;
I will likely try something close to your suggested board next time! I would like to find a way to keep in 1x Path or 1x Azcanta though!
Regarding Counterflux;
Counterflux is, in my opinion, a very strong and underutilized card, but I do get that the 3cmc tag is off-putting. I wanted my sideboard to be full of stack-based interaction (local meta full of storm and UWx), since adopting Terminus has meant lowering my main-deck Countermagic numbers. I usually bring it in for;
-UWx
-Storm
-URx
-Ad Naus
-Tron
-Scapeshift
I'm open to changes, and those Fluxes can definately be flexed. I may indeed just have too many cards for the mirror.
Regarding Angels;
You've all convinced me they are bad in the mirror, which follows my own experiences.
I think my next board plan will look something like this;
-4 Path
-3 Terminus
-1 Azcanta
-1 Logic Knot
+1 Geist
+1 Clique
+2 Dispel
+1 Negate
+2 Counterflux
+2 AV
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
Another cheeky trick in the mirror is to bring in Timely Reinforcements because resolving the 3 tokens vs a Snapcaster is very tough to deal with
SCG Modern Classic
------------------
2 Jace, 3 Snapcaster, 3 Ancestral Vision, 3 Terminus MD
Shared via TopDecked MTG https://www.topdecked.me/decks/54cd40a4-67ef-4166-a708-37a8ea71ec47
Jeskai Tempo ft. Geist, Queller, Jace, Settle MD
Shared via TopDecked MTG https://www.topdecked.me/decks/d71d3ff3-4fdc-4f2e-bba1-61e1b4b61ce5
Modern Challenge
----------------
Jeskai Breach
Shared via TopDecked MTG https://www.topdecked.me/decks/d018ce81-0d4a-46de-9ee4-bd3fda6d3d7e
Competative Modern League 5-0 Lists
Shared via TopDecked MTG https://www.topdecked.me/decks/e2483cbf-5303-4c74-8749-1809a2163a81
With Hieroglyphic Illumination
Shared via TopDecked MTG https://www.topdecked.me/decks/896a4c8e-f077-4a62-ac70-5a81c01f4c87
With Saheeli Combo
Shared via TopDecked MTG https://www.topdecked.me/decks/b5bb0c21-d7fe-4119-9c71-ef2b1c0bad42
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
What do you all think about bringing in Angels versus BGx? I'm not certain yet, as although an angel that sticks obviously ends the game, they have a lot of ways to remove them and trading down in mana without gaining any value from the card is just really bad. Against the aggro decks, an angel generally means they have to answer it immediately or the game ends, vs BGx, losing after an angel hit is still very much possible