I've been running Skinshifter as my Tarmogoyf replacement. He does a lot of work for me, to be honest. The ability to go over the top or trample through on the attack and stop anything 7 power or less on the ground has been huge. It takes a bigger investment in green to pull off but I think it's worth it if 'goyf isn't an option.
I've been running Skinshifter as my Tarmogoyf replacement. He does a lot of work for me, to be honest. The ability to go over the top or trample through on the attack and stop anything 7 power or less on the ground has been huge. It takes a bigger investment in green to pull off but I think it's worth it if 'goyf isn't an option.
If you do play black, I think that Putrid Leech is better. Paying life is easier than paying mana (thats why Channel is good ). You are not going to pump them if their arent tapped out, so most of the times Skinshifter will hit for 1, and Leech for 2
I believe WoTC's new policy is to make sure that every color can enjoy the exciting gameplay mechanic of making undercosted dudes and then turning them sideways. Clearly the future of magic.
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I am really intrigued by the idea of Smallpox. Ive seen few other lists running it as well. It gives us some much needed (quicker) land destruction vs Tron, as well as reigning in jund and geist a bit. Thoughts?
THIS 100X!!! If you don't agree with this then there is no amount of logic that will ever convince you that good, non-oppressive, combos should be allowed. If you don't agree with it then just don't play this game, and you certainly shouldn't feel entitled to make any comment on ban lists ever.
I really love Bronson's list that won the Grand Prix, but has Faithless Looting pretty much proved to be better than Crusher? Crusher is obviously a bomb, and can win the game very fast which is a bonus. Is it better to have a 1RR bomb, or a R spell that finds your other threats and answers? Should Eternal Witness be somewhere in the list? There were times where I was watching him play and I was thinking, wow, E-Wit would pretty much be a Demonic Tutor if he draws it.
The sideboard looks beautiful too, with the exception of Jund Charm which is kind of mediocre grave hate, and as a Pyroclasm your killing decks that you pretty much destroy anyway.
I def. like the idea of a 1-of Horizon canopy just to cantrip while loaming, and to save the loam. What would be removed from Bronson's list for that?
I don't want to build this deck from scratch, I want to start from Bronson's list b/c I like it a lot. I just wanna be sure on whether I play Crusher or Looting, and what comes out for the Canopy.
Raging Ravine is better than Lavaclaw Reaches because it is fatter. Yes, it costs more to activate, and yes, the green part is inconvenient, but it also produces green mana by itself, it swings like a pro, and outright squashes more creatures instead of trading with them.
I do have 1 of each in my current build, though, because Loam Control is rather threat-light, and I want to be able to get more win conditions while I'm still Dredging Loam and stripping hands, boards, and lands.
I have no clue what to strip from the Bronson mana base to fit in Horizon Canopy, as I don't remember his list, but this is my latest Loam Control mana base:
I like Eternal Witness in case I accidentally ditch Liliana OTV or Seismic Assault. She's sometimes a bit clunky, though.
I'm still not certain about Faithless Looting's position, but Countryside Crusher definitely makes the deck lean more aggro. He's also sometimes inconvenient when I want to hit my 4th land.
On another note, has anyone else considered Wild Guess for this deck? Imagine Looting without the card disadvantage (but being hit by Spell Snare and Remand now hurts)!
I think I like the Crushers more than the Lootings. Lootings make the deck more all-in and make you lose harder to grave hate. This deck's games can also get grindy so I think that having Crusher there as a win condition is necessary or you might just lose to the game timer.
Bronson's list maindecks a Bog, which I'm not sure is needed, I could run it in the sideboard instead and run the Ravine main, which I think I will do. My meta is more rampant with affinity so I would run the 2nd Quarter before the Tec Edge b/c Tec Edge is basically dead against them, while sniping inkmoths for free is quite good.
Your list cuts the RG filter land, and the BG filter land for the Canopy and Fengraf. Having another colorless source in a 3 color deck seems a little ambitious but Fengraf seems insane. Canopy is also necessary to save loam at least imo.
I may try cutting a Crusher for a Witness.
Does the deck need Terminate in it somewhere? I can imagine Goyfs being a slight problem but you can just play your own goyf and inevitably get there with Seismic.
What is the SB plan against affinity? This deck seems to be heavily favored against affinity but I would still like to know. I'm bringing in 11 cards against them, 3 Grudge, 2 Claims, 2 Darkblast, Pyroclasm, 3 Baloths. I know I board 4x Raven's Crime that seems obvious enough, but after that I'm not sure whether to reach for Inquisition or Lili first, and then I think Baloth replaces 3 Crushers. Lili seems really clunky, but it answers Etched Champion which is the only thing we can't kill, but in the end I think you can just ignore the Etched Champion and kill all their other creatures and be fine.
EDIT: Actually, I think it may be wiser to board out Bob in the affinity matchup, he could be slightly dangerous.
This is pretty much as close to "Staples.dec" as you can get in the format: Goyf, Bob, Shocks, Fetches, Thoughtseize, Liliana are all pretty pricey for the average player.
i guess a better question would be, how well does the deck perform against the field? loam hasnt really been represented in a lot of the places i have played or reports i have read. is this due to it not being a solid choice?
i think that the deck is versatile enough to adapt to meta shifts. so, why no love (minus the whole tarmogoyf and confidant thing)?
Weathered Wayfarer over Bob comes out a turn earlier at the expense of pay W to "draw". It would also allow you to run more expensive cards without having to worry about flipping them to bob.
Liliana and discard is hard to replace. So you would have to go in a different direction. Knight and Loam have a bit of anti-synergy but 6 damage from assault and +3/+3 on knight can certainly throw off opponent's combat math.
Gaddock only stops our worm harvest but can screw over a number of other decks. Without the discard, combo matches become more difficult but canonist can solve that.
Pending Established Q3 Summer Makeover Moved to Developing Competitive
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
Weathered Wayfarer over Bob comes out a turn earlier at the expense of pay W to "draw". It would also allow you to run more expensive cards without having to worry about flipping them to bob.
Liliana and discard is hard to replace. So you would have to go in a different direction. Knight and Loam have a bit of anti-synergy but 6 damage from assault and +3/+3 on knight can certainly throw off opponent's combat math.
Gaddock only stops our worm harvest but can screw over a number of other decks. Without the discard, combo matches become more difficult but canonist can solve that.
Naya Loam is actually pretty insane if you focus on being Aggro-Loam. I was running it pretty successfully with a list that went something like this:
4x Loam
4x Seismic Assault
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Bloodbraid Elf
4x Countryside Crusher
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Qasali Pridemage
4x Lightning Bolt
24 or so lands, with 2x Horizon Canopy.
It clocks out pretty fast but still has the whole Assault-Loam engine to completely annihilate other creature-based decks. With KoTR and BoP to create extra mana, you can often discard your extra lands away to Assault even without Loam, too. It's pretty strong.
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I think it takes more skill than Jund which keeps people who have the money off of it. That means it gets tested less.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
I would play it more, but there is a distinct lack of tournaments near me. As for the price tag, I'm failing to see how it is more expensive than Jund or any Uxy deck.
@greenpoe: Can you list your land base as well? I'd really like to see where you're going with it and if you have it tuned. I'd be more than willing to test out Naya Loam. Is BoP really all that necessary? Seems like the worst thing to cascade into.
apparently its the deck price that is keeping the deck down. its like a 900 deck.
This is 100% correct. The deck doesn't function quite the same without Bob, and Goyf is a necessary 4-of because we don't have Ooze or Terravore, making it terribly expensive.
I've been playing Loam the past month or so in our LGS' modern tournaments to great success. Last week I went 5-0 only dropping one game to U/W Tron off the back of a brutal (aka bad) judgement call. This deck has yet to lose in 3 to ANY delver variant in testing. I'm something like 16-2 vs UWR and 4-0 vs RUG. The only way they win is by opening the absolute nut high and you get garbage (ie: no darkblast/flamejab/inquisition/crime in the opening hand). Post-board the match is a straight up joke on the back of Obstinate Baloth.
The only sketchy matchups seem to be battle-bots (affinitylol) and pod but they have basically zero interaction and once you strip their hand, have to get very very lucky to get back in the game. At first I was really worried about Tron because.. well.. t3 karn isn't fun. But it turns out just ripping their hand to shreds or loaming ghost quarter repeatedly just stops anthing from ever happening.
Also, boarding a pair of Slaughter Pact is highly advised. Twin, Pod, and Tron (barring Iona in Gifts) all will go for it when you tap out. And the level of punish you get when bricking them for makes you feel like a god haha.
On the topic of deck choices, the one card I can't get behind at the moment is Countryside Crusher. I was running him initially in place of Bob (wtfamidoing), but he always felt clunky and unnecessary. There was a lot of times where I'd have him + lilly + seismic and just tank forever, agonizing over the correct play (which is almost always lilly unless you have like a million lands in hand), only to walk into a GftT/Terminate/Bolt/Whatever and want to shoot myself. Faithless Looting is another spicy addition, but after some fiddling round with it, I've found that 2 is the correct number. For a long time I was running 3 but since have dropped on for an additional Lilly (the 3rd) which is ALWAYS live.
If you do play black, I think that Putrid Leech is better. Paying life is easier than paying mana (thats why Channel is good ). You are not going to pump them if their arent tapped out, so most of the times Skinshifter will hit for 1, and Leech for 2
The sideboard looks beautiful too, with the exception of Jund Charm which is kind of mediocre grave hate, and as a Pyroclasm your killing decks that you pretty much destroy anyway.
I def. like the idea of a 1-of Horizon canopy just to cantrip while loaming, and to save the loam. What would be removed from Bronson's list for that?
I don't want to build this deck from scratch, I want to start from Bronson's list b/c I like it a lot. I just wanna be sure on whether I play Crusher or Looting, and what comes out for the Canopy.
thanks!
EDIT: Also, Raging Ravine, or Lavaclaw Reaches?
Currently playing:
UW Modern Tron WU
UR Modern Storm RU
UW [CARD]Rasputin Dreamweaver
[/CARD] UW
I do have 1 of each in my current build, though, because Loam Control is rather threat-light, and I want to be able to get more win conditions while I'm still Dredging Loam and stripping hands, boards, and lands.
I have no clue what to strip from the Bronson mana base to fit in Horizon Canopy, as I don't remember his list, but this is my latest Loam Control mana base:
Make your own conclusions about what to ditch.
I like Eternal Witness in case I accidentally ditch Liliana OTV or Seismic Assault. She's sometimes a bit clunky, though.
I'm still not certain about Faithless Looting's position, but Countryside Crusher definitely makes the deck lean more aggro. He's also sometimes inconvenient when I want to hit my 4th land.
On another note, has anyone else considered Wild Guess for this deck? Imagine Looting without the card disadvantage (but being hit by Spell Snare and Remand now hurts)!
Bronson's list maindecks a Bog, which I'm not sure is needed, I could run it in the sideboard instead and run the Ravine main, which I think I will do. My meta is more rampant with affinity so I would run the 2nd Quarter before the Tec Edge b/c Tec Edge is basically dead against them, while sniping inkmoths for free is quite good.
Your list cuts the RG filter land, and the BG filter land for the Canopy and Fengraf. Having another colorless source in a 3 color deck seems a little ambitious but Fengraf seems insane. Canopy is also necessary to save loam at least imo.
I may try cutting a Crusher for a Witness.
Does the deck need Terminate in it somewhere? I can imagine Goyfs being a slight problem but you can just play your own goyf and inevitably get there with Seismic.
What is the SB plan against affinity? This deck seems to be heavily favored against affinity but I would still like to know. I'm bringing in 11 cards against them, 3 Grudge, 2 Claims, 2 Darkblast, Pyroclasm, 3 Baloths. I know I board 4x Raven's Crime that seems obvious enough, but after that I'm not sure whether to reach for Inquisition or Lili first, and then I think Baloth replaces 3 Crushers. Lili seems really clunky, but it answers Etched Champion which is the only thing we can't kill, but in the end I think you can just ignore the Etched Champion and kill all their other creatures and be fine.
EDIT: Actually, I think it may be wiser to board out Bob in the affinity matchup, he could be slightly dangerous.
Currently playing:
UW Modern Tron WU
UR Modern Storm RU
UW [CARD]Rasputin Dreamweaver
[/CARD] UW
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i think that the deck is versatile enough to adapt to meta shifts. so, why no love (minus the whole tarmogoyf and confidant thing)?
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Path to Exile
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Ethersworn Canonist
Weathered Wayfarer over Bob comes out a turn earlier at the expense of pay W to "draw". It would also allow you to run more expensive cards without having to worry about flipping them to bob.
Liliana and discard is hard to replace. So you would have to go in a different direction. Knight and Loam have a bit of anti-synergy but 6 damage from assault and +3/+3 on knight can certainly throw off opponent's combat math.
Gaddock only stops our worm harvest but can screw over a number of other decks. Without the discard, combo matches become more difficult but canonist can solve that.
I'm wondering this myself I've been playing a list very similar to one posted here with awesome success on cockatrice
Naya Loam is actually pretty insane if you focus on being Aggro-Loam. I was running it pretty successfully with a list that went something like this:
4x Loam
4x Seismic Assault
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Bloodbraid Elf
4x Countryside Crusher
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Qasali Pridemage
4x Lightning Bolt
24 or so lands, with 2x Horizon Canopy.
It clocks out pretty fast but still has the whole Assault-Loam engine to completely annihilate other creature-based decks. With KoTR and BoP to create extra mana, you can often discard your extra lands away to Assault even without Loam, too. It's pretty strong.
It's an updated version of Brawl into an epic, new game.
People play Jund and that deck has a similar price tag.
I've thought of switching my Jund build over to Assault Loam (I have all the cards to switch over). But I can't get to many modern events atm.
@greenpoe: Can you list your land base as well? I'd really like to see where you're going with it and if you have it tuned. I'd be more than willing to test out Naya Loam. Is BoP really all that necessary? Seems like the worst thing to cascade into.
Absolutely not.
This is 100% correct. The deck doesn't function quite the same without Bob, and Goyf is a necessary 4-of because we don't have Ooze or Terravore, making it terribly expensive.
I've been playing Loam the past month or so in our LGS' modern tournaments to great success. Last week I went 5-0 only dropping one game to U/W Tron off the back of a brutal (aka bad) judgement call. This deck has yet to lose in 3 to ANY delver variant in testing. I'm something like 16-2 vs UWR and 4-0 vs RUG. The only way they win is by opening the absolute nut high and you get garbage (ie: no darkblast/flamejab/inquisition/crime in the opening hand). Post-board the match is a straight up joke on the back of Obstinate Baloth.
The only sketchy matchups seem to be battle-bots (affinitylol) and pod but they have basically zero interaction and once you strip their hand, have to get very very lucky to get back in the game. At first I was really worried about Tron because.. well.. t3 karn isn't fun. But it turns out just ripping their hand to shreds or loaming ghost quarter repeatedly just stops anthing from ever happening.
Also, boarding a pair of Slaughter Pact is highly advised. Twin, Pod, and Tron (barring Iona in Gifts) all will go for it when you tap out. And the level of punish you get when bricking them for makes you feel like a god haha.
On the topic of deck choices, the one card I can't get behind at the moment is Countryside Crusher. I was running him initially in place of Bob (wtfamidoing), but he always felt clunky and unnecessary. There was a lot of times where I'd have him + lilly + seismic and just tank forever, agonizing over the correct play (which is almost always lilly unless you have like a million lands in hand), only to walk into a GftT/Terminate/Bolt/Whatever and want to shoot myself. Faithless Looting is another spicy addition, but after some fiddling round with it, I've found that 2 is the correct number. For a long time I was running 3 but since have dropped on for an additional Lilly (the 3rd) which is ALWAYS live.
dredge t.e.s. loam
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