I was just curious what do you guys think of tectonic reformation? Is it worth a card? Or do you think just having 3 cycling lands in our deck being churned through with Life of the loam will be enough card draw? I was thinking about playing it as a 2 of in the deck until I get a feeling for whether it's good or not. I mean it even cycles so if we do have enough cycle lands in our hand we can always get rid of it if we want to.
I also think reformation is a trap. The cycle lands are good enough to have a backup plan to get through your deck, this enchantment just is a sometimes blank card that gives more card advantage to a deck that often floods on card advantage. We need more card density, not purely card advantage.
Any thoughts on regrowth now being modern legal? Getting back key pieces that were milled, looted or destroyed seems good, or just having the option to do the bolt regrowth bolt play is maybe good enough?
Also a card i want to try out alongside wrenn and six is sakura-tribe scout. Some people mentioned how the planeswalker can do busted play with exploration in legacy. Scout is the closet thing to that and can ramp us every turn as long as we have a way to get back dredged lands or fetchlands. Getting to the critical 5 lands will be important because now with the cycling lands we have access to the classic play of cast 2 loams a turn with a cycling land so that we can pitch 5 lands each turn to assault or influence for profit. We can now basically deal 20 damage in two turn from there, which is pretty sweet.
I honestly forgot Regrowth was reprinted. That card looks great, though its not very proactive. Having practically a 2 mana tutor is good, though we probably wouldn't want it till the late game as in the aggressive meta we really need a good curve or to answer our opponent's threats on curve, so I wouldn't play more than 1-2.
I don't think we want to play Tribe-Scout for a few reasons. For one, at base level, it's way less strong than Exploration. That isn't saying much on its own, it's like saying you shouldn't play Lightning Strike in standard since it's not Lightning Bolt. My point is in legacy, Exploration gets you to 4 lands on turn 2, and doesn't die to Lightning Bolt or Fatal Push. In legacy, the lands you get back are also considerably more powerful. For instance, you play Taiga into turn 1 Exploration in legacy. Extra land play Wasteland. Next turn you play another Taiga, play Wrenn and Six, and Wasteland your opponent every turn for the rest of the game. (as long as all the pieces stay assembled of course.) You can obviously ramp from that too with fetchlands and land drops from your hand, but the current iteration of Lands in legacy wouldn't care - maybe some aggroloam variant would, though they don't usually play Exploration which may change.
I digress. My point is that there is no rush to get to 5 mana by turn 3 purely because our opponents are still playing magic. If we have an exact hand of Tribe-Scout, Loam, Wrenn, Assault, Land, Land, Land, (one of which being a fetch) Spell, Spell, we can get to 5 mana turn 3 and cast Seismic Assault and Life from the Loam in the same turn and start Loam-Cycle-Loam. That's a good set up for Assault to be good, but it still won't kill until turn 5 at the earliest. I think the deck should be focused on more of a midrange plan than a combo plan. There's a reason why this deck is in the midrange subforum and not the combo subforum. IMO, the goal of the deck should be more to gain edges in card advantage while dealing with your opponents threats and putting pressure on with your cheap threats with the AssaultLoam or BearLoam engine on top to close games. If we commit to a pseudo mana dork in Tribe-Scout we open ourselves up to get rekt by worse draws off the top and simple removal spells. I'd rather play a card that affects the board more and that is better in a grindy situation. Who knows, I may be wrong.
The main plan of the deck is to put one of the 5 copies of seismic assault // ayula's influence in play and make them work fast and efficiently.
Explore, Faithless Loothing and Manamorphose are only there to powerup a draw engine that can possibly make us draw what we need to execute our game plan or dredge our Life From the Loam. It will give us some advantages on the run : Explore will accelerate our game plan, faithless will essentialy make us draw tons of cards and Manamorphose will fix whatever mana you need.
Wrenn and Life From the Loam play the same role here : Get back lands and control the board.
KoTR are mainly here to beat and protect Wrenn. It can also fetch any land in our land toolbox to help us in our game plan. I will not get over all my land choice, but as an ex GW value town player, I think these are all what we need to get a win. I'm open for suggestion here!
BBE is purely card value that will give us an edge against UW and control deck, even midrange deck. It will even drop an Ayula or Seismic right on board to start heavy pressure. One of the best top deck you can possibly need.
Wormharvest is an alternate win condition, but honestly i'm not a huge fan.
Eternal witness... well, it's that or it could be a crusher... But honestly, I think Eternal Withness is just the thing that will make us win our end game by getting back key pieces.
The best part is the SB, here why :
Leyline protect us against combo deck and burn deck that in my opinion are the worst loam matchup. It can be cast with manamorphose easily or discarded in a Faithless Looting. Seems pretty strong.
Force of Vigor in this deck will have the right amount of green card to be MvP. It destroy almost every anti Life From the Loam startegy and can be cast even on a turn 1 SB card. It deal with some deck in a spectacular way. (Affinity, tron, boggle, etc.)
Anger of the gods is realy nice cause it doesn't realy affect us and shut down dredge for the most part. It can pop in a t3 or t4 bloodbraid elf, clear the board and let BBE start to pressure. It's good against aggro deck, early dork and even certain combo deck. (UR Storm)
The last cards I was looking for in my SB are eithe grafdigger's cage to work against combo deck and Phoenix deck, the new collector ouphe to work against karn deck or Surgical extraction for it's versality.
Any thought on that?
Oh and Sorry for my english, it's not my main language!
Also because this deck is so heavy on lands and really if you don't have a seismic assault down your basically holding onto lands. Unless your fortunate to toss surplus to faithless looting. That's a huge motivator for me to splash black just so I can run raven's crime. Because let's face it flame jab is pretty weak.
If fact there are only a few instances I'd even consider running flame jab over molten vortex
GR has it's short comings though I'm keen to try it out with the new cards; I feel as if BGR is the future. Just access to better disruption, more stuff to do with extra lands, better card draw. Draw back is the mana base obviously.
@CrypticCommander
Well i've thought about sakura-tribe scout a bit more and one advantage it gives to straight RG decks is compensating the less versatile interaction with speed. We can still play the midrange game with faithless looting, wrenn and six, life from the loam and cycling lands. If we can slow down the opponent earlier by dropping our payoff cards faster and gain the ability to do multiple things a turn sooner, it may turn the game to our advantage and compensate for some of our clunkiness. Also makes things like blast zone less slow and gives us the ability to start ghost quartering without giving up too much tempo.
I wouldn't play scout in jund or temur, now that i think about it. But i'll be trying it out in gruul. Maybe it isn't good but i'll give it a try
How good is blast zone really? I haven't put that many reps in with it, but it appears to be fairly ubiquitous, I'm dubious about it actually being fast enough, by the time you can kill something already on board, the bz has to have been in play for 2 turns. Additionally, doesn't it do the same job a resolved assault does, with direct board control? It obviously can hit non creature permanents, but again the speed to me seems to be an issue
Blast zone is essentially a engineered explosives. It's a land that has to be set up preemptively which requires knowledge of the opponents deck. Blast zone is similar to and assault vs creature decks but vastly better vs things such as boggles or prison decks.
I have blast zone in the deck I play. But I find cindervines is more versatile and offers much more.
I have blast zone in the deck mainly because I don't believe it's completely useless yet. Usually I just use it to clear graveyard hate. I'm usually just hoping the graveyard hate hasn't wiped it out of my graveyard already.
The thing about blast zone is that it's a pre-emptive card. It requires intimate knowledge of other decks. Cards like cindervines and engineered explosives can be used reactively but are also easier to interact with.
I'm not trying to say one is better than the other but that they fill similar roles in different ways. Each of our decks will have differences based on personal play styles.
So I started running 2 quicksand main to help with aggressive creature decks. Got tired of hoping for a clasm effect or using my vortex activations to clear boards.
I'm aware there are probably better answers but I'm enjoying playing the sands.
If fact there are only a few instances I'd even consider running flame jab over molten vortex.
Flame Jab is a much better one of than Molten Vortex. While Vortex is much better in your hand, the point of the FJ is to be useful when you flip it into your yard with Life from the Loam. It may not have as much utility in a combo heavy meta where you are getting bulldozed turn 3-4, but as a one of for the matches against creature decks and control where you can simply Arc Lightning each turn to help with PWs or to deal the last couple points of damage, the card is great. It's a very noncommital slot that can be sideboarded out easily.
Blast Zone is a good 1-of or maybe 2-of maindeck to help in certain matchups like Bogles, Prison, or Aether Vial strategies. I'd try to run it if you have enough space. Out of SB, I'd lean more towards something like Engineered Explosives or even Ratchet Bomb if EE is out of your price range.
@CrypticCommander
Well i've thought about sakura-tribe scout a bit more and one advantage it gives to straight RG decks is compensating the less versatile interaction with speed. We can still play the midrange game with faithless looting, wrenn and six, life from the loam and cycling lands. If we can slow down the opponent earlier by dropping our payoff cards faster and gain the ability to do multiple things a turn sooner, it may turn the game to our advantage and compensate for some of our clunkiness. Also makes things like blast zone less slow and gives us the ability to start ghost quartering without giving up too much tempo.
I wouldn't play scout in jund or temur, now that i think about it. But i'll be trying it out in gruul. Maybe it isn't good but i'll give it a try
This is what I've been experimenting with. I've given up on the black splash, I think it stretches your mana base too thin because you want all Swamps for Raven's Crime, but then want alot of mountains for Seismic Assault too. And pulling in that direction while also wanting green is difficult.
Overall I like my deck. I think I'd consider taking out some seismic assault's and putting in Molten vortex's instead. I find I need more pressure early to keep up in the modern format. I'm not too sure about either of my planeswalkers yet, but I like the fact they give you mana and have a way of taking a creature off the board (assuming you have a fatty for Domri).
I think we need a 1 drop which is relevant in our deck to help the curve/take away early pressure quicker decks give. I find when I drop Tarmogoyf early he's too small. And it takes a bit longer to get 3 drops out to deal with pesky 1/1's and 2/2's.
urborg, tomb of yawgmoth helps with the feeling like you don't have enough black mana, and arboreal grazer is still a great one drop. Though others have been feeling its lack luster to top deck later on.
edit: removed my bolt comment didnt see them in the list at first
I will reiterate how I feel about Commune with the Gods, especially with match experience from last week.
Commune with the Gods is a neat spell that has the possibility of both finding loam and grabbing Seismic Assault, but when it does neither (especially on the draw) it destroys your gameplan.
For instance, last week, when I was playing against BG Rock, my opponent is on the play. He turn 1 casts Inquisition of Kozilek, taking Scavenging Ooze. I turn 1 Faithless Looting. Turn 2 he casts Tarmogoyf, I cast Commune with the Gods getting another Scooze, flipping more card types for goyf. Turn 3 he attacks with goyf, plays another one, and I'm sitting there with nothing on my battlefield facing down two 5/6 goyfs. I can play scooze next turn, but he def has removal spells (he did) and I look real bad.
Commune is a tempo negative card that seems to set up our game plan but really doesn't. Our gameplan is to use cheap threats and removal to get to a late game where AssaultLoam can take over. Commune hard commits to hitting AssaultLoam turn 3 which isn't always feasible. I play it as a one of for different reasons - it's a good draw late game vs control/midrange, and it is useful in reassembling your graveyard after something like Nihil Spellbomb.
I will repost my RG AssaultLoam deck which is currently 16-4-2 at my LGS with the addition of Living Twister.
This deck uses Satyr Wayfinder instead of Commune with the Gods since it is a tempo positive card that can block in aggressive matchups and get in for chip points of damage in control matchups. It still digs for loam and lets us play fewer lands. The removal spells are wholly designed to take out Thing in the Ice turn 2 on the draw and help vs Meddling Mage in Humans. The curve is rather low to the ground with no 4 drops clogging us up. Young Pyromancer replaces Tarmogoyf as it gums up the board quickly vs aggressive decks and isn't affected by cards like Rest in Peace. I think this is the best RG list in the meta as it stands currently, and post-rotation I'll likely add 2 or 3 Wrenn and Six over the Satyr Wayfinder / Commune with the Gods slot.
I'm currently doing thorough testing on Jund Loam for the primer. I may post the initial primer outlining in depth RG Loam since I've been playing it for the last 3 months and post basic guides for the other archetypes. The deck hasn't seen a lot of results aside from the odd MTGO 5-0 Leagues, so all the decks need to be built from scratch. If anyone wants to help test out Temur and Naya Loam, shoot me a PM and we can coordinate those together more. I currently have 6 different archetypes on the primer (RG, Jund, Temur, Naya, RG Vortex, Jund Vortex), which have decklists that have not gone through thorough testing so probably have wrong manabases, since those are very touchy with 3 colors and a RRR spell. That means that if you do what I did and try to jam, say, 2 Scavenging Ooze into the Jund archetype it won't be the most streamlined manabase ever created. I'm going back and forth on how the primer should come out at first, but it will be for the community, so I figure the community should have a say in what they want to see. If you guys are cool with a couple tuned decklists and strategy and then some outlines for list for the other archetypes, I'd be able to release the primer right now. I just want to make sure that it doesn't come out looking like crap and makes the deck look like garbage, because this is the deck that makes me love modern, and I want to share that with people.
So I'd be happy with some lists and match write ups, however the outdated or optimized lists would need to be updated when they get tested and optimized.
I'd be more than happy to start tracking data on lists and help optimize everything. I'll be sad to remove my jank but would be worth it.
If there's one thing I want to get across to all the people picking up Assault/Loam lately because of all the new toys being printed before MTG Salvation goes read only it's that Faithless Looting as a 4-of is a must if you're playing red. It's one of the best cards in Modern, and with the possible exception of Seismic Assault itself, it's the best red card in the deck and one of the main reasons to be playing red. If you're not playing red... well fine, you should be, but fine. Good luck finding something that does everything Looting does in green, black, or blue (or white... I guess, but I really see this as the color that provides the least).
Read your last statement again:
Quote from Decadent Command »
I think we need a 1 drop which is relevant in our deck to help the curve/take away early pressure quicker decks give. I find when I drop Tarmogoyf early he's too small. And it takes a bit longer to get 3 drops out to deal with pesky 1/1's and 2/2's.
What you're "thinking" you need is Faithless Looting. It helps the curve by providing you with something to do turn 1. It puts stuff like Loam in the yard where you want it. It grows your Tarmogoyf fast so it's a better attacker/blocker. It lets you find the proper lands you need to play your stuff (helping with a black splash I might add). It lets you ditch clunky 3, 4, and 5-drops against aggro, and helps you find nice 1 and 2-drop removal spells instead so you can double-spell in the next turn or two. And then it does a ton of great things later in the game too - whether it's in your graveyard or your hand.
Find room for it.
Aside from that, you have an interesting list, though I agree with Cryptic Commander completely on his analysis of Commune with the Gods. Not that it doesn't have a home in a version of the list that is right for it, but that it's a utility player - not a core piece that you need for your deck to function. I think of it playing a role similar to Magmatic Insight or something. Two Cindervines main seems a bit much, even if you want that effect (and not just out of the board). Also, I'm not too sure about that Domri, Anarch of Bolas - though I've never tested it or even considered it as a possible include, so what do I know. Finally, it looks like you are holding onto a black splash (possibly for something out of the board?) based on your land choices. If you choose to try to play black cards, then Explorer Spud is right, having access to a 1-of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is really nice. I pretty much consider it a must if I'm running Raven's Crime.
Faithless looting is overrate in my experience. It give you card disadvantage. And offers no defensive capabilities.
Commune with the gods while searching for answers in a better fashion, also does not lose card advantage. And both of you didn't point out it does a better job of pumping Countryside crusher and Tarmogoyf than faithless looting does.
A one-of Urborg is near useless when you want it early because loam is the best tool to find it but by the time you get loam running their hand is practically depleted.
@CrypticCommander I would offer to help if it weren’t for my current list being kinda all over the place and in desperate need of tuning. I do think you should go ahead and write/post the RG primer for now, maybe mention the key cards for other builds for the moment. I especially think this since I imagine most new players will be starting with RG for both budget (if they don’t have all the fetches and whatnot) and clean mana with the new cards.
Faithless looting is overrate in my experience. It give you card disadvantage. And offers no defensive capabilities.
Commune with the gods while searching for answers in a better fashion, also does not lose card advantage. And both of you didn't point out it does a better job of pumping Countryside crusher and Tarmogoyf than faithless looting does.
A one-of Urborg is near useless when you want it early because loam is the best tool to find it but by the time you get loam running their hand is practically depleted.
Well, obviously you can do what you want. That said, the whole "card disadvantage" myth has been disproven time and time again. Is discarding useless blanks for cards that might actually do something card disadvantage? How about discarding a couple of lands for two "real" cards and then Loaming three lands back into your hand? Or alternatively, Loaming three lands back and then Looting two away for two other cards? Additionally, Commune with the Gods can miss occasionally (hence, card disadvantage by your argument) or just find something that isn't all that useful.
As to the defensive capabilities of Faithless Looting, what pure card-draw spell does offer "defensive capabilities" in itself? None. However, they help you find stuff like Bolt which does.
And while your statement about Commune doing a better job of pumping Crusher and Goyf is generally true, it isn't necessarily the case. What if you hit all of the same card type (or a combination of card types already in you yard)? And what if it's just instants and sorceries when your Goyf is already counting those? With Looting you can selectively put certain card-types into your yard to pump Crusher and Goyf (or turn on Delirium). On top of all this, Looting critically costs one while Commune costs two; that's a big difference. You can probably afford to spend your turn 1 mana setting up. By turn 2, you may get smacked for playing a set-up card instead of putting out a blocker or leaving up removal.
In regard to Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, if you absolutely need black mana early, sure, a 1-of Urborg isn't going to help. At that point, it sounds like you're more than splashing a little black for a mid-to-late-game Raven's Crime retrace to rip the U/W control player's hand apart. If you definitively need turn 1 black mana for Inquisition of Kozilek or something, then just build a Jund manabase.
Faithless looting is overrate in my experience. It give you card disadvantage. And offers no defensive capabilities.
Commune with the gods while searching for answers in a better fashion, also does not lose card advantage. And both of you didn't point out it does a better job of pumping Countryside crusher and Tarmogoyf than faithless looting does.
A one-of Urborg is near useless when you want it early because loam is the best tool to find it but by the time you get loam running their hand is practically depleted.
Faithless Looting doesn't lose card advantage in this archetype. If Looting discards cards that want to be in the graveyard, it is practically card advantage. Digging 2 cards deeper for Loam, Assault, and all of the answers you need against any deck makes looting the most efficient and powerful cantrip possible for this archetype.
When you are running this many lands too, often times you can discard your fifth land alongside another card. So even if you don't have Loam to get all the lands you discarded back, you can easily find enough cards to discard. In those corner cases where you have to discard a "real card" from your hand, Looting offers you card selection where for instance you can discard a Countryside Crusher if you have a hand with multiple three drops. Looting smooths out the draws of the deck and gives you something to do late game with flashback.
While Commune may not lose card advantage, it definitely loses tempo, which is much more important in this case. Late game, you can double spell with it, making it stronger. Early game, if you take a turn off to effectively draw a card, maybe set up your graveyard better, it's not powerful enough. The reason why I say if you hit Seismic Assault it is worth it is because Assault can effectively wipe the board the next turn to come back. If you take a turn off only to hit another Tarmogoyf, you probably would have been better off to play a Goyf that turn instead.
I honestly forgot Regrowth was reprinted. That card looks great, though its not very proactive. Having practically a 2 mana tutor is good, though we probably wouldn't want it till the late game as in the aggressive meta we really need a good curve or to answer our opponent's threats on curve, so I wouldn't play more than 1-2.
I don't think we want to play Tribe-Scout for a few reasons. For one, at base level, it's way less strong than Exploration. That isn't saying much on its own, it's like saying you shouldn't play Lightning Strike in standard since it's not Lightning Bolt. My point is in legacy, Exploration gets you to 4 lands on turn 2, and doesn't die to Lightning Bolt or Fatal Push. In legacy, the lands you get back are also considerably more powerful. For instance, you play Taiga into turn 1 Exploration in legacy. Extra land play Wasteland. Next turn you play another Taiga, play Wrenn and Six, and Wasteland your opponent every turn for the rest of the game. (as long as all the pieces stay assembled of course.) You can obviously ramp from that too with fetchlands and land drops from your hand, but the current iteration of Lands in legacy wouldn't care - maybe some aggroloam variant would, though they don't usually play Exploration which may change.
I digress. My point is that there is no rush to get to 5 mana by turn 3 purely because our opponents are still playing magic. If we have an exact hand of Tribe-Scout, Loam, Wrenn, Assault, Land, Land, Land, (one of which being a fetch) Spell, Spell, we can get to 5 mana turn 3 and cast Seismic Assault and Life from the Loam in the same turn and start Loam-Cycle-Loam. That's a good set up for Assault to be good, but it still won't kill until turn 5 at the earliest. I think the deck should be focused on more of a midrange plan than a combo plan. There's a reason why this deck is in the midrange subforum and not the combo subforum. IMO, the goal of the deck should be more to gain edges in card advantage while dealing with your opponents threats and putting pressure on with your cheap threats with the AssaultLoam or BearLoam engine on top to close games. If we commit to a pseudo mana dork in Tribe-Scout we open ourselves up to get rekt by worse draws off the top and simple removal spells. I'd rather play a card that affects the board more and that is better in a grindy situation. Who knows, I may be wrong.
I'm working on this list :
3 Wrenn and the six
4 Faithless loothing
4 Manamorphose
3 Knight of the reliquary
3 Ayula's influence
4 bloodbraid elf
3 life from the loam
2 seismic assault
1 worm harvest
2 eternal witness
3 ghost quarter
3 cycling land (G)
1 kessig
2 draw land
1 helios
1 blast zone
10 mana land
1 raging ravine
4 Leyline of sanctity
4 force of vigor
4 anger of the gods
Here my reasoning :
The main plan of the deck is to put one of the 5 copies of seismic assault // ayula's influence in play and make them work fast and efficiently.
Explore, Faithless Loothing and Manamorphose are only there to powerup a draw engine that can possibly make us draw what we need to execute our game plan or dredge our Life From the Loam. It will give us some advantages on the run : Explore will accelerate our game plan, faithless will essentialy make us draw tons of cards and Manamorphose will fix whatever mana you need.
Wrenn and Life From the Loam play the same role here : Get back lands and control the board.
KoTR are mainly here to beat and protect Wrenn. It can also fetch any land in our land toolbox to help us in our game plan. I will not get over all my land choice, but as an ex GW value town player, I think these are all what we need to get a win. I'm open for suggestion here!
BBE is purely card value that will give us an edge against UW and control deck, even midrange deck. It will even drop an Ayula or Seismic right on board to start heavy pressure. One of the best top deck you can possibly need.
Wormharvest is an alternate win condition, but honestly i'm not a huge fan.
Eternal witness... well, it's that or it could be a crusher... But honestly, I think Eternal Withness is just the thing that will make us win our end game by getting back key pieces.
The best part is the SB, here why :
Leyline protect us against combo deck and burn deck that in my opinion are the worst loam matchup. It can be cast with manamorphose easily or discarded in a Faithless Looting. Seems pretty strong.
Force of Vigor in this deck will have the right amount of green card to be MvP. It destroy almost every anti Life From the Loam startegy and can be cast even on a turn 1 SB card. It deal with some deck in a spectacular way. (Affinity, tron, boggle, etc.)
Anger of the gods is realy nice cause it doesn't realy affect us and shut down dredge for the most part. It can pop in a t3 or t4 bloodbraid elf, clear the board and let BBE start to pressure. It's good against aggro deck, early dork and even certain combo deck. (UR Storm)
The last cards I was looking for in my SB are eithe grafdigger's cage to work against combo deck and Phoenix deck, the new collector ouphe to work against karn deck or Surgical extraction for it's versality.
Any thought on that?
Oh and Sorry for my english, it's not my main language!
Also because this deck is so heavy on lands and really if you don't have a seismic assault down your basically holding onto lands. Unless your fortunate to toss surplus to faithless looting. That's a huge motivator for me to splash black just so I can run raven's crime. Because let's face it flame jab is pretty weak.
If fact there are only a few instances I'd even consider running flame jab over molten vortex
GR has it's short comings though I'm keen to try it out with the new cards; I feel as if BGR is the future. Just access to better disruption, more stuff to do with extra lands, better card draw. Draw back is the mana base obviously.
Well i've thought about sakura-tribe scout a bit more and one advantage it gives to straight RG decks is compensating the less versatile interaction with speed. We can still play the midrange game with faithless looting, wrenn and six, life from the loam and cycling lands. If we can slow down the opponent earlier by dropping our payoff cards faster and gain the ability to do multiple things a turn sooner, it may turn the game to our advantage and compensate for some of our clunkiness. Also makes things like blast zone less slow and gives us the ability to start ghost quartering without giving up too much tempo.
I wouldn't play scout in jund or temur, now that i think about it. But i'll be trying it out in gruul. Maybe it isn't good but i'll give it a try
I have blast zone in the deck mainly because I don't believe it's completely useless yet. Usually I just use it to clear graveyard hate. I'm usually just hoping the graveyard hate hasn't wiped it out of my graveyard already.
I'm not trying to say one is better than the other but that they fill similar roles in different ways. Each of our decks will have differences based on personal play styles.
I'm aware there are probably better answers but I'm enjoying playing the sands.
Blast Zone is a good 1-of or maybe 2-of maindeck to help in certain matchups like Bogles, Prison, or Aether Vial strategies. I'd try to run it if you have enough space. Out of SB, I'd lean more towards something like Engineered Explosives or even Ratchet Bomb if EE is out of your price range.
Fair enough mate. Let us know how it goes!
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Canyon Slough
4 Copperline Gorge
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
2 Forest
1 Mortuary Mire
2 Mountain
2 raging ravine
2 sheltered thicket
1 stomping ground
4 wooded foothills
1 flame jab
4 lightning bolt
1 molten vortex
4 life from the loam
3 commune with the gods
2 cindervines
4 Seismic Assault
CREATURES
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Living Twister
2 bloodbraid elf
1 Tireless tracker
4 countryside Crusher
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Domri, Anarch of Bolas
This is what I've been experimenting with. I've given up on the black splash, I think it stretches your mana base too thin because you want all Swamps for Raven's Crime, but then want alot of mountains for Seismic Assault too. And pulling in that direction while also wanting green is difficult.
Overall I like my deck. I think I'd consider taking out some seismic assault's and putting in Molten vortex's instead. I find I need more pressure early to keep up in the modern format. I'm not too sure about either of my planeswalkers yet, but I like the fact they give you mana and have a way of taking a creature off the board (assuming you have a fatty for Domri).
I think we need a 1 drop which is relevant in our deck to help the curve/take away early pressure quicker decks give. I find when I drop Tarmogoyf early he's too small. And it takes a bit longer to get 3 drops out to deal with pesky 1/1's and 2/2's.
edit: removed my bolt comment didnt see them in the list at first
Commune with the Gods is a neat spell that has the possibility of both finding loam and grabbing Seismic Assault, but when it does neither (especially on the draw) it destroys your gameplan.
For instance, last week, when I was playing against BG Rock, my opponent is on the play. He turn 1 casts Inquisition of Kozilek, taking Scavenging Ooze. I turn 1 Faithless Looting. Turn 2 he casts Tarmogoyf, I cast Commune with the Gods getting another Scooze, flipping more card types for goyf. Turn 3 he attacks with goyf, plays another one, and I'm sitting there with nothing on my battlefield facing down two 5/6 goyfs. I can play scooze next turn, but he def has removal spells (he did) and I look real bad.
Commune is a tempo negative card that seems to set up our game plan but really doesn't. Our gameplan is to use cheap threats and removal to get to a late game where AssaultLoam can take over. Commune hard commits to hitting AssaultLoam turn 3 which isn't always feasible. I play it as a one of for different reasons - it's a good draw late game vs control/midrange, and it is useful in reassembling your graveyard after something like Nihil Spellbomb.
I will repost my RG AssaultLoam deck which is currently 16-4-2 at my LGS with the addition of Living Twister.
4 Faithless Looting
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Dismember
1 Lightning Axe
1 Flame Slash
2 Flame Jab
1 Conflagrate
Two Drops: 14
3 Young Pyromancer
3 Satyr Wayfinder
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Life from the Loam
1 Commune with the Gods
4 Seismic Assault
4 Countryside Crusher
2 Living Twister
Lands: 23
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Stomping Ground
3 Sheltered Thicket
5 Mountain
1 Forest
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Rootbound Crag
2 Fire-Lit Thicket
1 Raging Ravine
2 Alpine Moon
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Tormod’s Crypt
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Pulse of Murasa
1 Nature’s Claim
1 Cindervines
1 Beast Within
I'm currently doing thorough testing on Jund Loam for the primer. I may post the initial primer outlining in depth RG Loam since I've been playing it for the last 3 months and post basic guides for the other archetypes. The deck hasn't seen a lot of results aside from the odd MTGO 5-0 Leagues, so all the decks need to be built from scratch. If anyone wants to help test out Temur and Naya Loam, shoot me a PM and we can coordinate those together more. I currently have 6 different archetypes on the primer (RG, Jund, Temur, Naya, RG Vortex, Jund Vortex), which have decklists that have not gone through thorough testing so probably have wrong manabases, since those are very touchy with 3 colors and a RRR spell. That means that if you do what I did and try to jam, say, 2 Scavenging Ooze into the Jund archetype it won't be the most streamlined manabase ever created. I'm going back and forth on how the primer should come out at first, but it will be for the community, so I figure the community should have a say in what they want to see. If you guys are cool with a couple tuned decklists and strategy and then some outlines for list for the other archetypes, I'd be able to release the primer right now. I just want to make sure that it doesn't come out looking like crap and makes the deck look like garbage, because this is the deck that makes me love modern, and I want to share that with people.
I'd be more than happy to start tracking data on lists and help optimize everything. I'll be sad to remove my jank but would be worth it.
If there's one thing I want to get across to all the people picking up Assault/Loam lately because of all the new toys being printed before MTG Salvation goes read only it's that Faithless Looting as a 4-of is a must if you're playing red. It's one of the best cards in Modern, and with the possible exception of Seismic Assault itself, it's the best red card in the deck and one of the main reasons to be playing red. If you're not playing red... well fine, you should be, but fine. Good luck finding something that does everything Looting does in green, black, or blue (or white... I guess, but I really see this as the color that provides the least).
Read your last statement again: What you're "thinking" you need is Faithless Looting. It helps the curve by providing you with something to do turn 1. It puts stuff like Loam in the yard where you want it. It grows your Tarmogoyf fast so it's a better attacker/blocker. It lets you find the proper lands you need to play your stuff (helping with a black splash I might add). It lets you ditch clunky 3, 4, and 5-drops against aggro, and helps you find nice 1 and 2-drop removal spells instead so you can double-spell in the next turn or two. And then it does a ton of great things later in the game too - whether it's in your graveyard or your hand.
Find room for it.
Aside from that, you have an interesting list, though I agree with Cryptic Commander completely on his analysis of Commune with the Gods. Not that it doesn't have a home in a version of the list that is right for it, but that it's a utility player - not a core piece that you need for your deck to function. I think of it playing a role similar to Magmatic Insight or something. Two Cindervines main seems a bit much, even if you want that effect (and not just out of the board). Also, I'm not too sure about that Domri, Anarch of Bolas - though I've never tested it or even considered it as a possible include, so what do I know. Finally, it looks like you are holding onto a black splash (possibly for something out of the board?) based on your land choices. If you choose to try to play black cards, then Explorer Spud is right, having access to a 1-of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is really nice. I pretty much consider it a must if I'm running Raven's Crime.
Commune with the gods while searching for answers in a better fashion, also does not lose card advantage. And both of you didn't point out it does a better job of pumping Countryside crusher and Tarmogoyf than faithless looting does.
A one-of Urborg is near useless when you want it early because loam is the best tool to find it but by the time you get loam running their hand is practically depleted.
Well, obviously you can do what you want. That said, the whole "card disadvantage" myth has been disproven time and time again. Is discarding useless blanks for cards that might actually do something card disadvantage? How about discarding a couple of lands for two "real" cards and then Loaming three lands back into your hand? Or alternatively, Loaming three lands back and then Looting two away for two other cards? Additionally, Commune with the Gods can miss occasionally (hence, card disadvantage by your argument) or just find something that isn't all that useful.
As to the defensive capabilities of Faithless Looting, what pure card-draw spell does offer "defensive capabilities" in itself? None. However, they help you find stuff like Bolt which does.
And while your statement about Commune doing a better job of pumping Crusher and Goyf is generally true, it isn't necessarily the case. What if you hit all of the same card type (or a combination of card types already in you yard)? And what if it's just instants and sorceries when your Goyf is already counting those? With Looting you can selectively put certain card-types into your yard to pump Crusher and Goyf (or turn on Delirium). On top of all this, Looting critically costs one while Commune costs two; that's a big difference. You can probably afford to spend your turn 1 mana setting up. By turn 2, you may get smacked for playing a set-up card instead of putting out a blocker or leaving up removal.
Again, I'm not bashing Commune with the Gods; go ahead and play it if you want it. I'm just certain that cutting Faithless Looting for it is a mistake.
---------------------------------------
In regard to Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, if you absolutely need black mana early, sure, a 1-of Urborg isn't going to help. At that point, it sounds like you're more than splashing a little black for a mid-to-late-game Raven's Crime retrace to rip the U/W control player's hand apart. If you definitively need turn 1 black mana for Inquisition of Kozilek or something, then just build a Jund manabase.
When you are running this many lands too, often times you can discard your fifth land alongside another card. So even if you don't have Loam to get all the lands you discarded back, you can easily find enough cards to discard. In those corner cases where you have to discard a "real card" from your hand, Looting offers you card selection where for instance you can discard a Countryside Crusher if you have a hand with multiple three drops. Looting smooths out the draws of the deck and gives you something to do late game with flashback.
While Commune may not lose card advantage, it definitely loses tempo, which is much more important in this case. Late game, you can double spell with it, making it stronger. Early game, if you take a turn off to effectively draw a card, maybe set up your graveyard better, it's not powerful enough. The reason why I say if you hit Seismic Assault it is worth it is because Assault can effectively wipe the board the next turn to come back. If you take a turn off only to hit another Tarmogoyf, you probably would have been better off to play a Goyf that turn instead.
Here you have interesting match Golgari vs Jund Loam
W wish to have a deck list of loam player, it really looks so nice. @jenncertainty
We can see the power of Wrenn and Six and Ruination Rioter which I think is a great addition to our strategy.