To those that have been testing Kanaoka Yoshihiko's LD deck. Now important is the nihil spellbomb graveyard ability? I was thinking of making the deck and using terrarion instead.
Nihil Spellbomb can hose opposing discarded Lingering Souls if you get lucky and hose opposing Snapcaster Mage/Eternal Witness/Kolaghan's Command on recursion mode if you don't. It also combos with Bolt to kill a lot of Goyfs (Bolt their X/4+ Goyf, let Bolt resolve, then Nihil the fatter graveyard away and often make Goyf an X/3- with 3 damage on it).
This deck look amazing. I put it into TappedOut immediately to give it a try. I can see it completely wrecking anything that plays black with ease, but how does it fair vs aggro type decks of other colours? seems like it might be a tad slow to beat them. Super cool idea though!
This deck definitely had some gross opening plays, namely turn two Spreading Algae or turn two Smallpox with Flagstones of Trokair out. The Shadows of Doubts I took out almost immediately after some testing, and the Heliod's Pilgrims were too slow for fetching Algaes to be relevant. If I were to take another crack at the Spreading Algae deck, it would utilize 4 Myth Realized and 4 Life From the Loam and Lingering Souls. Some number of Fetid Heath is also a must if you're looking to Smallpox on turn 2 with Flagstones.
To those that have been testing Kanaoka Yoshihiko's LD deck. Now important is the nihil spellbomb graveyard ability? I was thinking of making the deck and using terrarion instead.
Like others have said, the main idea is just to be a cheap cantrip. Never EXPECT the graveyard ability to be relevant, but it will surprise you from time to time. I would say, in my testing, nihil spellbomb is most often used just to cantrip itself, as my Crack the Earths usually are hitting flagstones.
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I would like to post something I have been working on, heavily inspired by Kanaoka's list. He's absolutely a genius about the synergy between Crack the Earth, Chromatic Star, Flagstones of Trokair, and Nihil Spellbomb. But I don't like his wincons--a naked Sorin is slow and janky, and Myth Realized is not reliable, and an awful topdeck. I think what he was getting at with Myth is that after achieving a total lock on the opponent's lands, it won't be susceptible to removal, but in practice it is difficult to keep the opponent on <=1 land the entire game.
Furthermore, Liliana of the Veil hits us asymetrically! Good news, budget builders, she's not needed! Because their hand is always full of crap they can't cast, all she does is hurt us, and with the opponent's board empty, her ult doesn't do as much as it should.
What I found is a really tight synergistic package with Young Pyromancer and Lingering Souls. Pyro does what Myth is trying to do, but it makes an earlier impact, synergizes with Chandra, the Firebrand, and doesn't give a **** about Smallpox (the elemental gets created before pox resolves, and you can just sacrifice that). I also added 4x Ensnaring Bridge, because the one struggle of this deck tends to be if the opponent sneaks in any 1-2 CMC creatures before we achieve a land lock. Our hand will be quite empty by turn 4 or 5, and our 1/1 elemental/spirit tokens can still attack during our turn before we play whatever single card we drew.
Edit: I have no idea what to put in the sideboard. Affinity is a rough matchup due to speed/nonreliance on land, and Burn for similar reasons (if you can't keep them on 0), so maybe pyroclasm, Kataki, sun droplet, stony silence, leyline of sanctity? We have the best hate colors for these matchups, just wondering what the optimal ones are
Last few things I want to point out:
-Boom is disgusting with Chandra. Copying it, you can target your own land both times, but a different land of the opponent's each time. Chandra copying Lingering Souls is also disgusting, but unfortunately because the copy isn't cast, she only gets us a single elemental if we have pyro out. Still, 2-for-1 lands is huge (2-for-0 if you have a fetch), and 5 tokens off 1 card is sick.
-Red is usually the right choice when cantripping Chromatic Star on an early turn. Unless you're planning on playing Smallpox that turn, there's a good chance of drawing into Crack the Earth, Pyro, or another egg.
-2 Urborg is totally correct. Maybe even 3 if you run more black spells. There's a decent chance you need to Boom your own land at some point, or choose to discard an Urborg off of Smallpox, so the legendary rule doesn't hurt that much.
To those that have been testing Kanaoka Yoshihiko's LD deck. Now important is the nihil spellbomb graveyard ability? I was thinking of making the deck and using terrarion instead.
Like others have said, the main idea is just to be a cheap cantrip. Never EXPECT the graveyard ability to be relevant, but it will surprise you from time to time. I would say, in my testing, nihil spellbomb is most often used just to cantrip itself, as my Crack the Earths usually are hitting flagstones.
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I would like to post something I have been working on, heavily inspired by Kanaoka's list. He's absolutely a genius about the synergy between Crack the Earth, Chromatic Star, Flagstones of Trokair, and Nihil Spellbomb. But I don't like his wincons--a naked Sorin is slow and janky, and Myth Realized is not reliable, and an awful topdeck. I think what he was getting at with Myth is that after achieving a total lock on the opponent's lands, it won't be susceptible to removal, but in practice it is difficult to keep the opponent on <=1 land the entire game.
Furthermore, Liliana of the Veil hits us asymetrically! Good news, budget builders, she's not needed! Because their hand is always full of crap they can't cast, all she does is hurt us, and with the opponent's board empty, her ult doesn't do as much as it should.
What I found is a really tight synergistic package with Young Pyromancer and Lingering Souls. Pyro does what Myth is trying to do, but it makes an earlier impact, synergizes with Chandra, the Firebrand, and doesn't give a **** about Smallpox (the elemental gets created before pox resolves, and you can just sacrifice that). I also added 4x Ensnaring Bridge, because the one struggle of this deck tends to be if the opponent sneaks in any 1-2 CMC creatures before we achieve a land lock. Our hand will be quite empty by turn 4 or 5, and our 1/1 elemental/spirit tokens can still attack during our turn before we play whatever single card we drew.
Edit: I have no idea what to put in the sideboard. Affinity is a rough matchup due to speed/nonreliance on land, and Burn for similar reasons (if you can't keep them on 0), so maybe pyroclasm, Kataki, sun droplet, stony silence, leyline of sanctity? We have the best hate colors for these matchups, just wondering what the optimal ones are
Last few things I want to point out:
-Boom is disgusting with Chandra. Copying it, you can target your own land both times, but a different land of the opponent's each time. Chandra copying Lingering Souls is also disgusting, but unfortunately because the copy isn't cast, she only gets us a single elemental if we have pyro out. Still, 2-for-1 lands is huge (2-for-0 if you have a fetch), and 5 tokens off 1 card is sick.
-Red is usually the right choice when cantripping Chromatic Star on an early turn. Unless you're planning on playing Smallpox that turn, there's a good chance of drawing into Crack the Earth, Pyro, or another egg.
-2 Urborg is totally correct. Maybe even 3 if you run more black spells. There's a decent chance you need to Boom your own land at some point, or choose to discard an Urborg off of Smallpox, so the legendary rule doesn't hurt that much.
I really love the way the list you posted looks so I didn't touch the maindeck. I like the idea of bashing with 1/1's and running Ensaring Bridge. Aside from that I thought of two other ways we could close out the game and control the board.
Way 1: Just run bombs like Elspeth, Sun's Champion and Gideon Jura with sweepers and Wall of Omens to block while screwing with there land
I do like Sun Titan! I found myself stabilizing or closing games around 5 lands though, with the 6th pretty hard to get cause usually by that point I have a walker out and I'm OK with symetrically blowing Crack/Pox just to keep them on 0. Elspeth, same deal, I'm scared of 6 mana, but that would be easier to hit in a build that drops black. I've never tested Gideon Jura, is he actually decent? I feel like he's just a 5 mana 6/6, isn't he?
I also really like Magus of the Tabernacle but probably not in the same build with Bridge, since they sort of compete for effects.
Crucible and Ghost Quarter definitely is a thing. Probably don't want tec edge at all, as they shouldn't ever be on 4 lands
Heck, Crucible+Ghost Quarter makes Roiling Terrain super appealing as a possible creatureless wincon, but it's a nombo with the spellbomb. Maybe a RW build that ditches spellbomb -> Terrarion, Lingering Souls and Young Pyromancer for Crucible+Quarter? The goal would be a much harder lockout, and would probably end up winning through decking or concessions.
When I was mentioning Way 2 I meant that as a seperate deck. It won't run pox or crack. The build I'm most interested in and like the most is the Mardu one I linked. Personally I love Gideon Jura. He can lock down most boards and win the game all on his own. Forcing dudes to attack into our blockers is nice too when they run stuff like Dark Confidant or Vendilion Clique and we want to trade a token with them
Has anyone played around with Surgical Extraction or Extirpate? Mainboard graveyard hate, more hand information to help know what to color screw.
But the best part is exiling up to 3 lands from their Library/Hand to help keep them mana screwed. Then on your first pass through their Library, you can make a note of what lands they run 3-4 copies of, for the best future targets. I think only Merfolk and Burn run more than 2-3 basics, but it is still a very metagame call, and subpar in meta without T1 decks at every turn.
Has anyone played around with Surgical Extraction or Extirpate? Mainboard graveyard hate, more hand information to help know what to color screw.
But the best part is exiling up to 3 lands from their Library/Hand to help keep them mana screwed. Then on your first pass through their Library, you can make a note of what lands they run 3-4 copies of, for the best future targets. I think only Merfolk and Burn run more than 2-3 basics, but it is still a very metagame call, and subpar in meta without T1 decks at every turn.
I have really. REALLY wanted that to be its own deck, with sadistic sacrament. I spent a long time looking for cards that can remove basics from the library, and there just aren't enough. You have that inefficient jester's cap, and you have bitter ordeal, which -might- have its place in a combo deck (a deck called Scrambled Eggs does this). But I just don't think S.E. and extirpate have their spot in a "fair" (haha) LD deck; the effect is nice, but it's simply not worth the card. One thing I HAVE toyed with in this deck is haunting echoes. You can choose not to find anything except their lands! You'd ofc want to cut Nihil Spellbomb for Terrarion if you run this.
I have plenty of fun just guessing which color to keep them off of Usually black if they're on any kind of value deck, to keep away Liliana or Tasigur, which we kind of help enable. Or obviously blue, cause screw counterspells!
I think Sadistic Sacrament could be awesome in a dedicated MBC deck with Ensnaring Bridge. So many decks have few if any answers to the Bridge mainboard.
Hadn't thought about Haunting Echoes in that way. Good catch.
Delver and Land Destruction are both tempo decks at heart. Delver of Secrets remain tier 2 because it dies to too many bolts flying around and no Brainstorm to flip it. Land destruction is tier 2.5 at best and I am being generous.
Until Dragons of Tarkir. I'm gunning for Hooting Mandrills.
Sideboard
4x Chord of Calling
1x Qasali Ambusher
1x Magus of the Moon
1x Dosan, the Falling Leaf
1x Kataki, War's Wage
1x Samurai of the Pale Curtain
1x Kor Firewalker
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Burning-Tree Shaman
1x Hushwing Gryff
1x Aven Mindsensor
Lack of Tarmogoyf is not an accident. The cards do what they do drawn early or late, with or without any other cards. Creature/spell/land ratio for consistency. Any hand with lands, a creature and a spell is keepable.
Howling Mine is the key here as it will ensure that we hit the land Destruction we need. The symmetry is negated by the fact they can only play one land per turn.
Goldfishing the deck there is enough incidental burn that usually around turn 10-12 they are toast. If you're opponent gets to 4 lands, might as well scoop.
Sideboard looks to streamline the game plan if possible, with the wall to hopefully stall out any aggro.
Edit: The two cards I'm on the fence over is Eidolon of the Great Revel to try and punish the low CMC spells that get past. Or Young Pyromancer to clog up the board. I'll get back after testing.
Finally found this thread. I've played LD way back, though not as old as Sinkhole days. Since I have most LD cards lying around and I'm getting a fullset of Fulminator Mages next week, I decided to give my Naya Burn and BW Tokens a rest and go for this.
I'm still tweaking what's for the sideboard though. Some card choices and explanation:
Creatures Simian Spirit Guide - allows a t2 land destruction. Very rarely will it ever see the battlefield. Birds of Paradise - the classic mana dork. Like SSG, it allows a t2 land destruction, but unlike SSG, it stays on the battlefield than can also chump block if needed, unless it got bolted at once. Fulminator Mage - the LD spell with legs. It's often played as an LD spell rather than a creature, although it can stay and swing around if opponent has a bunch of basics. Stormbreath Dragon - this might be really unusual, but if you ask me, he could shine really good in this type of deck. It is a 4/4 body, which means it doesn't die to bolt, and also it has protection from white, which make PtE useless. Flying and haste also makes it great. What makes it really good is its monstrous ability. By the time this dragon lands and the LD plan is successful, it could be the finisher due to our opponent always having 7 cards due to mana denial. This is why I prefer this over Shivan Wumpus.
LD Spells and others Stone Rain, Molten Rain - the 3cmc LD spells. Boom // Bust - the 2-cmc LD spell. It works really good with fetchlands. Seismic Spike - 4-cmc LD spell that nets back RR, which could be used potentially to another LD spell. Rolling Terrain - the 4-cmc LD spell that could deal huge amount of damage to opponent and could serve as an alternate win-con. Pyroclasm - decks with fast creatures, combined with dorks (looking at you elves) can make LD won't matter much, although Volcanic Fallout is also a good choice if your meta has lots of fish. Lightning Bolt - you need to kill some opposing dorks or dudes sometimes.
All are subject to playtest. There are many other cards I'm considering but for now, I'll stick with this.
Hey guys, still need to study up on the thread, but apparently Plow Under is modern legal. That card seems very broken to me, and I might be working on a list that just gets to five and denies them two draw steps with the card.
Some great ideas here. Xanthic_Golem I like the thoughts on Stormbreath Dragon even if it might be better suited for the sideboard. I agree Shivan Wumpus is a bad card, and let's be honest LD decks already play enough bad cards.
I am torn on Encroaching Wastes, on one hand having a few utility lands makes flood more bearable. However if I freed up the slots for Darksteel Citadel then I could run Boom/Bust for the Christmas land chance of turn 1 LD with SSG.
Need to actually get this sleeved up so we can get some play reports going in the thread.
I tried a lot of different ramp spells like birds or signets or spirit guides, but ultimately they all felt mediocre. You really only wanted ONE of that effect ever and drawing one later sucked cause you'd rather have fuel. Utopia Sprawl was the most solid choice as it was difficult to get rid of and fixed your mana colors.
I also tried many of the other LD spells like Wreak Havoc and friends, the ones with utility. I also ran upwards of 20-22 of these spells. I found that a small disruption in their mana and killing off their creatures was enough to keep all decks behind us. We didn't need that many LD spells.
I found I wanted more interaction, which is why I have bolts and decays and the full load of Damnations. This allows us to apply defensive pressure to other decks that would otherwise steamroll over our linear LD plan. Instant speed interaction is important in modern.
The draw 3 lose 3 life spell has been sweet. Still testing more with it if I want more or less copies.
The win cons are a bit odd but have been the best fit win cons I could find after a lot of research. Vraska is a vindicate, as she hits any permanent (we have LD to hit the lands). Otherwise her plus is deadly. Given how resource light our opponents will be, them ramming their creatures into our planeswalker gives us card advantage. Its very hard for them to kill our planeswalker. And they have to do it quickly! She ults fast. I thought of other planeswalkers like Sarkhan, but those can get path to exiled. 3 Assassin tokens are harder to deal with. Grave Titan is also a multi-threat in one. He kills quickly when unanswered and even if he does die he leaves behind a clock.
Sideboard probably needs some refinement. Moons and Chokes are good. S games answers a number of decks. More aoe removal gives us game against hyper aggro decks. Chalice is sick on many levels.
This is a decent list. I also have thoughts of having to add B as well, making it a sort of Jund. You are right about the part of having too much LD spells is not really necessary. There are times that opponent has no more lands, and you still have a bunch of LD spells at hand rather than having a finisher to end the game, although some players tend to scoop when it happens due to mana denial or being irritated.
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@Obould, You don't need discard spells. What are you going to discard? Their creatures? The spells they weren't going to cast anyways? Their... lands? Our goal is to trim away at their mana and restrict their options, then quickly finish them off with one of our win conditions. Alongside that, we want strong interactive spells like Abrupt Decay and Wrath. This helps us against some of the unfair hyper aggressive creature deceks (Elves, Merfolk, Affinity, Allies, Slivers, Zoo) and the creature based combo decks like Twin or the new Jace. Damnation is important because most of the time you play this deck against creature decks, they WILL get creatures into play which slowly peck away at you. Damnation / Vraska deny that line of play. I also disagree with the need for a repeated card draw engine such as Underworld Connections. I feel that's slower and unnecessary. I could be wrong as I have not tested it, but Painful Truths 3 cards tends to always be enough. And Mutavault is rarely an issue. If you have three lands, Mutavault + X + Y, and one is a fetch and the other isn't a Mountain/Mutavault, you can cast anything. It's very unlikely that in the three lands you get, two of them are Mutavaults/Mountains.
@Master_Hades, Goggles doesn't kill permanents like Vraska does, which sometimes comes up as super important. Goggles also doesn't win us the game, which Vraska does very quickly. Goggles only synergizes with 8-10 cards in our deck. We could use Molten Rain but then Damnation becomes harder to cast. Anger of the Gods is not as good as Damnation. I don't think we need Goggles because I designed this deck to work like this: Remember those games of magics where your opponent passes the turn after missing his third land drop. Then he misses it again. You have made all your land drops and are just playing the good cards, rolling all over him with stuff. That's very one-sided. It wasn't one-sided because you blew up ALL of his lands, but rather because he got behind in the game.
@Obould, You don't need discard spells. What are you going to discard? Their creatures? The spells they weren't going to cast anyways? Their... lands? Our goal is to trim away at their mana and restrict their options, then quickly finish them off with one of our win conditions. Alongside that, we want strong interactive spells like Abrupt Decay and Wrath. This helps us against some of the unfair hyper aggressive creature deceks (Elves, Merfolk, Affinity, Allies, Slivers, Zoo) and the creature based combo decks like Twin or the new Jace. Damnation is important because most of the time you play this deck against creature decks, they WILL get creatures into play which slowly peck away at you. Damnation / Vraska deny that line of play. I also disagree with the need for a repeated card draw engine such as Underworld Connections. I feel that's slower and unnecessary. I could be wrong as I have not tested it, but Painful Truths 3 cards tends to always be enough. And Mutavault is rarely an issue. If you have three lands, Mutavault + X + Y, and one is a fetch and the other isn't a Mountain/Mutavault, you can cast anything. It's very unlikely that in the three lands you get, two of them are Mutavaults/Mountains.
My point with discard was to prevent them to cast the key spells before you get the LD engine going or allowing you to play your game by discarding opponents counters etc. Against hyper aggro decks like affinity, goblins and burn damnation is too slow and thats why pyroclasm is so played (they goldfishes quite consistent turn 4 kills and sometimes even turn 3). With discard you can get the nasty spells from their hand before they hit the board like etched champion, cranial plating, eidolon of the great revel etc. Against blue controls you take their counter away on turn 1 and/or 2 and start doing your thing with LD turn 3.
Then there is "combo" decks like infect and bogles that are hard to deal while they have their permanents on board and functions with quite few lands.
This is true. My list does have many ways to interact other than "lets just wait and pray we can cast our 3-4 drop LD spells and survive". My list runs 2 bolts and 3 decays alongside 4 utopia sprawls to speed things up. It can also just chump with F mage. The sideboard can probably be tailored to handle more aggressive decks. Maybe 3 Damnation is correct in the main with 1 pyroclasm replacing it. Then put the fourth Damnation in the board. That card IS really good btw.
What are the thoughts of Howling Mine for fuel and a wincon?
Milling your opponent out with multiple copies of Howling Mine seems safer than something like a Titan, which is a dead card until you're ready to win. Chalice of the Void ensures any lands they do drop are worthless.
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Nihil Spellbomb can hose opposing discarded Lingering Souls if you get lucky and hose opposing Snapcaster Mage/Eternal Witness/Kolaghan's Command on recursion mode if you don't. It also combos with Bolt to kill a lot of Goyfs (Bolt their X/4+ Goyf, let Bolt resolve, then Nihil the fatter graveyard away and often make Goyf an X/3- with 3 damage on it).
But quite a bit of the time, it's Crack the Earth fodder.
I sometimes dream of Origin Spellbomb to be Crack the Earth fodder that can block a guy instead, but costing 2 mana to cantrip on its own may blow.
Spellbombs can cantrip the turn they ETB for only 1 mana, which is pretty important when you NEED more gas or that one disruption card.
This deck definitely had some gross opening plays, namely turn two Spreading Algae or turn two Smallpox with Flagstones of Trokair out. The Shadows of Doubts I took out almost immediately after some testing, and the Heliod's Pilgrims were too slow for fetching Algaes to be relevant. If I were to take another crack at the Spreading Algae deck, it would utilize 4 Myth Realized and 4 Life From the Loam and Lingering Souls. Some number of Fetid Heath is also a must if you're looking to Smallpox on turn 2 with Flagstones.
Like others have said, the main idea is just to be a cheap cantrip. Never EXPECT the graveyard ability to be relevant, but it will surprise you from time to time. I would say, in my testing, nihil spellbomb is most often used just to cantrip itself, as my Crack the Earths usually are hitting flagstones.
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I would like to post something I have been working on, heavily inspired by Kanaoka's list. He's absolutely a genius about the synergy between Crack the Earth, Chromatic Star, Flagstones of Trokair, and Nihil Spellbomb. But I don't like his wincons--a naked Sorin is slow and janky, and Myth Realized is not reliable, and an awful topdeck. I think what he was getting at with Myth is that after achieving a total lock on the opponent's lands, it won't be susceptible to removal, but in practice it is difficult to keep the opponent on <=1 land the entire game.
Furthermore, Liliana of the Veil hits us asymetrically! Good news, budget builders, she's not needed! Because their hand is always full of crap they can't cast, all she does is hurt us, and with the opponent's board empty, her ult doesn't do as much as it should.
What I found is a really tight synergistic package with Young Pyromancer and Lingering Souls. Pyro does what Myth is trying to do, but it makes an earlier impact, synergizes with Chandra, the Firebrand, and doesn't give a **** about Smallpox (the elemental gets created before pox resolves, and you can just sacrifice that). I also added 4x Ensnaring Bridge, because the one struggle of this deck tends to be if the opponent sneaks in any 1-2 CMC creatures before we achieve a land lock. Our hand will be quite empty by turn 4 or 5, and our 1/1 elemental/spirit tokens can still attack during our turn before we play whatever single card we drew.
Here's my list:
1x Arid Mesa
4x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Godless Shrine
4x Flagstones of Trokair
1x Swamp
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3x Sacred Foundry
2x Mountain
2x Ajani Vengeant
1x Chandra, the Firebrand
Land destruction:
4x Boom/Bust
4x Crack the Earth
4x Smallpox
4x Stone Rain
4x Lingering Souls
4x Young Pyromancer
Other:
4x Chromatic Star
4x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Nihil Spellbomb
Edit: I have no idea what to put in the sideboard. Affinity is a rough matchup due to speed/nonreliance on land, and Burn for similar reasons (if you can't keep them on 0), so maybe pyroclasm, Kataki, sun droplet, stony silence, leyline of sanctity? We have the best hate colors for these matchups, just wondering what the optimal ones are
Last few things I want to point out:
-Boom is disgusting with Chandra. Copying it, you can target your own land both times, but a different land of the opponent's each time. Chandra copying Lingering Souls is also disgusting, but unfortunately because the copy isn't cast, she only gets us a single elemental if we have pyro out. Still, 2-for-1 lands is huge (2-for-0 if you have a fetch), and 5 tokens off 1 card is sick.
-Red is usually the right choice when cantripping Chromatic Star on an early turn. Unless you're planning on playing Smallpox that turn, there's a good chance of drawing into Crack the Earth, Pyro, or another egg.
-2 Urborg is totally correct. Maybe even 3 if you run more black spells. There's a decent chance you need to Boom your own land at some point, or choose to discard an Urborg off of Smallpox, so the legendary rule doesn't hurt that much.
I really love the way the list you posted looks so I didn't touch the maindeck. I like the idea of bashing with 1/1's and running Ensaring Bridge. Aside from that I thought of two other ways we could close out the game and control the board.
Way 1: Just run bombs like Elspeth, Sun's Champion and Gideon Jura with sweepers and Wall of Omens to block while screwing with there land
Way 2: Sun Titan / Crucible of Worlds to recur Ghost Quarter, Fulminator Mage, and tectonic edge. Maindeck some Leonen Arbiters and Aven Mindcensors along with Path to Exile as well in that build. It would be a lot like death and taxes just heavy on the LD. I'd run Blood Moon in that build as well and Ajani Vengeant. I'd just remove black completely and add in Emeria, the Sky Ruin to bring back Fulminator's or Sun Titans that bit the dust... or both.
4 Young Pyromancer
Spells (33)
2 Nihil Spellbomb
4 Chromatic Star
4 Crack the Earth
4 Boom // Bust
4 Smallpox
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Lingering Souls
4 Stone Rain
1 Chandra, the Firebrand
2 Ajani Vengeant
1 Arid Mesa
1 Swamp
2 Godless Shrine
2 Mountain
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Sacred Foundry
4 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Flagstones of Trokair
3 Auriok Champion
3 Kataki, War's Wage
3 Aven Mindcensor
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Magus of the Tabernacle
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs
Martyr Proc Thread
Esper Relicblade Thread
Standard:
Mardu Superfriends
Turbofog
I also really like Magus of the Tabernacle but probably not in the same build with Bridge, since they sort of compete for effects.
Crucible and Ghost Quarter definitely is a thing. Probably don't want tec edge at all, as they shouldn't ever be on 4 lands
Heck, Crucible+Ghost Quarter makes Roiling Terrain super appealing as a possible creatureless wincon, but it's a nombo with the spellbomb. Maybe a RW build that ditches spellbomb -> Terrarion, Lingering Souls and Young Pyromancer for Crucible+Quarter? The goal would be a much harder lockout, and would probably end up winning through decking or concessions.
Martyr Proc Thread
Esper Relicblade Thread
Standard:
Mardu Superfriends
Turbofog
But the best part is exiling up to 3 lands from their Library/Hand to help keep them mana screwed. Then on your first pass through their Library, you can make a note of what lands they run 3-4 copies of, for the best future targets. I think only Merfolk and Burn run more than 2-3 basics, but it is still a very metagame call, and subpar in meta without T1 decks at every turn.
I have really. REALLY wanted that to be its own deck, with sadistic sacrament. I spent a long time looking for cards that can remove basics from the library, and there just aren't enough. You have that inefficient jester's cap, and you have bitter ordeal, which -might- have its place in a combo deck (a deck called Scrambled Eggs does this). But I just don't think S.E. and extirpate have their spot in a "fair" (haha) LD deck; the effect is nice, but it's simply not worth the card. One thing I HAVE toyed with in this deck is haunting echoes. You can choose not to find anything except their lands! You'd ofc want to cut Nihil Spellbomb for Terrarion if you run this.
I have plenty of fun just guessing which color to keep them off of Usually black if they're on any kind of value deck, to keep away Liliana or Tasigur, which we kind of help enable. Or obviously blue, cause screw counterspells!
Hadn't thought about Haunting Echoes in that way. Good catch.
Until Dragons of Tarkir. I'm gunning for Hooting Mandrills.
4x Kird Ape
4x Wild Nacatl
4x Loam Lion
4x Steppe Lynx
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
3x Hooting Mandrills
3x Fulminator Mage
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Stone Rain
4x Molten Rain
1x Kessig Wolf Run
4x Arid Mesa
2x Stomping Ground
2x Temple Garden
1x Sacred Foundry
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Windswept Heath
1x Plains
1x Mountain
2x Forest
Sideboard
4x Chord of Calling
1x Qasali Ambusher
1x Magus of the Moon
1x Dosan, the Falling Leaf
1x Kataki, War's Wage
1x Samurai of the Pale Curtain
1x Kor Firewalker
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Burning-Tree Shaman
1x Hushwing Gryff
1x Aven Mindsensor
Lack of Tarmogoyf is not an accident. The cards do what they do drawn early or late, with or without any other cards. Creature/spell/land ratio for consistency. Any hand with lands, a creature and a spell is keepable.
2x Anger of the Gods
4x Melt Terrain
4x Molten Rain
4x Poison the Well
4x Roiling Terrain
4x Seismic Spike
4x Stone Rain
2x Lightning Bolt
Land (22)
4x Encroaching Wastes
16x Mountain
2x Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4x Howling Mine
Planeswalker (2)
2x Chandra, the Firebrand
Creature (4)
4x Simian Spirit Guide
Howling Mine is the key here as it will ensure that we hit the land Destruction we need. The symmetry is negated by the fact they can only play one land per turn.
Goldfishing the deck there is enough incidental burn that usually around turn 10-12 they are toast. If you're opponent gets to 4 lands, might as well scoop.
1x Boil
2x Crumble to Dust
4x Cryoclasm
4x Peak Eruption
2x Æther Membrane
Sideboard looks to streamline the game plan if possible, with the wall to hopefully stall out any aggro.
Edit: The two cards I'm on the fence over is Eidolon of the Great Revel to try and punish the low CMC spells that get past. Or Young Pyromancer to clog up the board. I'll get back after testing.
Currently, I've made a sketch-up list:
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Fulminator Mage
3x Stormbreath Dragon
LD Spells (16)
4x Stone Rain
4x Molten Rain
4x Boom // Bust
2x Seismic Spike
2x Rolling Terrain
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Pyroclasm
Lands (22)
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Bloodstained Mire
3x Copperline Gorge
8x Mountain
2x Stomping Ground
1x Forest
I'm still tweaking what's for the sideboard though. Some card choices and explanation:
Creatures
Simian Spirit Guide - allows a t2 land destruction. Very rarely will it ever see the battlefield.
Birds of Paradise - the classic mana dork. Like SSG, it allows a t2 land destruction, but unlike SSG, it stays on the battlefield than can also chump block if needed, unless it got bolted at once.
Fulminator Mage - the LD spell with legs. It's often played as an LD spell rather than a creature, although it can stay and swing around if opponent has a bunch of basics.
Stormbreath Dragon - this might be really unusual, but if you ask me, he could shine really good in this type of deck. It is a 4/4 body, which means it doesn't die to bolt, and also it has protection from white, which make PtE useless. Flying and haste also makes it great. What makes it really good is its monstrous ability. By the time this dragon lands and the LD plan is successful, it could be the finisher due to our opponent always having 7 cards due to mana denial. This is why I prefer this over Shivan Wumpus.
LD Spells and others
Stone Rain, Molten Rain - the 3cmc LD spells.
Boom // Bust - the 2-cmc LD spell. It works really good with fetchlands.
Seismic Spike - 4-cmc LD spell that nets back RR, which could be used potentially to another LD spell.
Rolling Terrain - the 4-cmc LD spell that could deal huge amount of damage to opponent and could serve as an alternate win-con.
Pyroclasm - decks with fast creatures, combined with dorks (looking at you elves) can make LD won't matter much, although Volcanic Fallout is also a good choice if your meta has lots of fish.
Lightning Bolt - you need to kill some opposing dorks or dudes sometimes.
All are subject to playtest. There are many other cards I'm considering but for now, I'll stick with this.
I am torn on Encroaching Wastes, on one hand having a few utility lands makes flood more bearable. However if I freed up the slots for Darksteel Citadel then I could run Boom/Bust for the Christmas land chance of turn 1 LD with SSG.
Need to actually get this sleeved up so we can get some play reports going in the thread.
4 Stone Rain
4 Fulminator Mage
4 Rain of Tears
4 Wrecking Ball
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Painful Truths
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Damnation
4 Vraska the Unseen
2 Grave Titan
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
3 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Mountain
2 Mutavault
3 Blood Moon
3 Choke
2 Slaughter Games
2 Pyroclasm
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Dismember
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Shatterstorm
A few notes:
I tried a lot of different ramp spells like birds or signets or spirit guides, but ultimately they all felt mediocre. You really only wanted ONE of that effect ever and drawing one later sucked cause you'd rather have fuel. Utopia Sprawl was the most solid choice as it was difficult to get rid of and fixed your mana colors.
I also tried many of the other LD spells like Wreak Havoc and friends, the ones with utility. I also ran upwards of 20-22 of these spells. I found that a small disruption in their mana and killing off their creatures was enough to keep all decks behind us. We didn't need that many LD spells.
I found I wanted more interaction, which is why I have bolts and decays and the full load of Damnations. This allows us to apply defensive pressure to other decks that would otherwise steamroll over our linear LD plan. Instant speed interaction is important in modern.
The draw 3 lose 3 life spell has been sweet. Still testing more with it if I want more or less copies.
The win cons are a bit odd but have been the best fit win cons I could find after a lot of research. Vraska is a vindicate, as she hits any permanent (we have LD to hit the lands). Otherwise her plus is deadly. Given how resource light our opponents will be, them ramming their creatures into our planeswalker gives us card advantage. Its very hard for them to kill our planeswalker. And they have to do it quickly! She ults fast. I thought of other planeswalkers like Sarkhan, but those can get path to exiled. 3 Assassin tokens are harder to deal with. Grave Titan is also a multi-threat in one. He kills quickly when unanswered and even if he does die he leaves behind a clock.
Sideboard probably needs some refinement. Moons and Chokes are good. S games answers a number of decks. More aoe removal gives us game against hyper aggro decks. Chalice is sick on many levels.
This is a decent list. I also have thoughts of having to add B as well, making it a sort of Jund. You are right about the part of having too much LD spells is not really necessary. There are times that opponent has no more lands, and you still have a bunch of LD spells at hand rather than having a finisher to end the game, although some players tend to scoop when it happens due to mana denial or being irritated.
@Master_Hades, Goggles doesn't kill permanents like Vraska does, which sometimes comes up as super important. Goggles also doesn't win us the game, which Vraska does very quickly. Goggles only synergizes with 8-10 cards in our deck. We could use Molten Rain but then Damnation becomes harder to cast. Anger of the Gods is not as good as Damnation. I don't think we need Goggles because I designed this deck to work like this: Remember those games of magics where your opponent passes the turn after missing his third land drop. Then he misses it again. You have made all your land drops and are just playing the good cards, rolling all over him with stuff. That's very one-sided. It wasn't one-sided because you blew up ALL of his lands, but rather because he got behind in the game.
This is true. My list does have many ways to interact other than "lets just wait and pray we can cast our 3-4 drop LD spells and survive". My list runs 2 bolts and 3 decays alongside 4 utopia sprawls to speed things up. It can also just chump with F mage. The sideboard can probably be tailored to handle more aggressive decks. Maybe 3 Damnation is correct in the main with 1 pyroclasm replacing it. Then put the fourth Damnation in the board. That card IS really good btw.
Milling your opponent out with multiple copies of Howling Mine seems safer than something like a Titan, which is a dead card until you're ready to win. Chalice of the Void ensures any lands they do drop are worthless.