I played the following to a 2-2-1 , in SCG Modern Premier IQ in Indianapolis, I will give a breakdown and my thoughts after the list.
Creatures:
4x Dark Confidant
4x Pack Rat
3x Kitchen Finks
3x Blade Splicer
3x Restoration Angel
3x Tidehollow Sculler
Spells
4x Thoughtseize
3x Inquistion of Kozilek
3x Lingering Souls
4x Path to Exile
1x Smother
1x Doom Blade
Lands
1x Vault of the Archangel
3x Tectonic Edge
4x Marsh Flats
4x Godless Shrine
2x Isolated Chapel
1x Caves of Kolios
1x Fetid Heath
1x Urborg, tomb of Yawgmoth
3x Plains
2x Swamp
1x Arid Mesa
1x Verdant Catacombs
Sideboard
1x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Kor Firewalker
2x Stony Silence
2x Disenchant
2x Wrath of God
2x Relic of Progentus
2x Shadow of Doubt
1x Zealous Persecution
Matches
Rd1 Waste Not (1-0)
G1 he rips my hand, drops double rack, however I do see oblibterator, so I side in wraths, plus leyline and Disencants
G2 I beat him down
G3 Leyline in opening hand, he plays double obliterator (too greedy) I wrath and smoke him
Rd2 Kikki-Pod (1-1)
G1 I Keep a slightly risky hand he combos me out
G2 I catch his fetch with t2 shadow, wrath his 2 mana dorks, he chords for another, I also break Pod before he can Pod, but only had a finks to beat with never drew another beater till too late, I got pretty unlucky here.
Rd3 (1-1-1) Elves
G1 his hand is fast but I hold him off and start beating with angel, however he eventually draws Pact and hoofs me (long game 1)
G2 I wrath is dorks crush him
G3 I again kill his dorks, but we run out of time I was going to be able to kill him on my next turn
Rd4 (2-1-1) Junk
Pretty one sided I crushed him both games even though he had 3 lillys game 2, Angel + splicer really shined here.
Rd5 (2-2-1) Rug/Twin
I got crushed here and prob miss boarded a bit admittedly I have played against UR twin a lot and this not so much, problem I had was I had to keep disrupting the combo, but then had no answer to huntmaster and Goyfs.
My own comments about the deck
I played finks because it helped improve the burn match up and was decent against affinity and junk/rock variants
however he was pretty terrible against Pod and Rug Twin prob should have sided him out rd 5
Pack Rat did nothing for me all day though mostly due to either getting killed of discarded
I only had a Bob in a keepable opening hand 1 time, and only ever dre 2 all day very unlucky in that regard
Wrath of God was my MVP in my sideboard
Changes I am considering if I stick with this deck
Less rats (3)
reconsider running finks, prob 2 brimaz
Restoration Angel was very good I won every game I played it except the one that went to time, is the main reason I ran finks over Brimaz from the get go
Shadow of doubt while cute prob should be something else Lilly maybe, more removal possibly.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
I also like that besides the Rug match up I felt the deck had game against pod eventhough I got beat I think I got pretty unlucky in game 2, I flooded bad and never drew another threat besides the 1 finks in my opener until I got a bob too late.
So here is a preliminary deck list. Take into consideration that this has had zero testing, therefore I'm not exactly sure the right number of certain cards/lands or if this could be possible.
Ideally against combo decks you know what they are playing by turn 2. For example, against scapeshift, turn one hand disruption, t2 runed halo naming valakut. Turn 3 nevermore naming cryptic command, is pretty much game. This can be applied across a few different combo decks.
Against swarm and pod, pretty straight forward; disrupt, remove, gain protection from, board wipe.
Sorin is a beast with lingering souls or hero of bladehold. With hero out sorin makes her swing for 10.. Turn 2 clock.
Help and suggestions are welcome. Again not sure if this is viable or not
Little surprised no one is using Phyrexian Obliterator I find this card does insane work if he comes into play.
I've played a lot with obliterator and he's a delight but you gotta switch around the manabase a bit (stuff like a second urborg and more fetid heaths over something like Isolated Chapel that would be better otherwise).
Would it be worth considering splashing green here? If this should roll into another thread let me know. I was just thinking today as I picked up my Windswept Heath for Standard that being able to snag Godless Shrine, Temple Garden and Overgrown Tomb wouldn't be half bad. Without getting crazy into what we could add the two things that seemed feasible to add were Scavenging Ooze and Abrupt Decay...but primarily Ooze. Below is just me spit ballin'.
Mana base wise, it will probably require a couple more fetches, Marsh Flats probably, and perhaps only 2 Mutavault. Just a thought. Without a fully fetched out mana base it's hard to consider. I would really feel a lot more comfortable w/2 more fetches, but that would also be a lot of pain.
Would it be worth considering splashing green here? If this should roll into another thread let me know. I was just thinking today as I picked up my Windswept Heath for Standard that being able to snag Godless Shrine, Temple Garden and Overgrown Tomb wouldn't be half bad. Without getting crazy into what we could add the two things that seemed feasible to add were Scavenging Ooze and Abrupt Decay...but primarily Ooze. Below is just me spit ballin'.
Mana base wise, it will probably require a couple more fetches, Marsh Flats probably, and perhaps only 2 Mutavault. Just a thought. Without a fully fetched out mana base it's hard to consider. I would really feel a lot more comfortable w/2 more fetches, but that would also be a lot of pain.
At this point, wouldn't it just be better to cut Brimaz and Tidehollow Sculler for Goyf and Dismember and Slaughter Pact for Abrupt Decay and play Junk?
Would it be worth considering splashing green here? If this should roll into another thread let me know. I was just thinking today as I picked up my Windswept Heath for Standard that being able to snag Godless Shrine, Temple Garden and Overgrown Tomb wouldn't be half bad. Without getting crazy into what we could add the two things that seemed feasible to add were Scavenging Ooze and Abrupt Decay...but primarily Ooze. Below is just me spit ballin'.
Mana base wise, it will probably require a couple more fetches, Marsh Flats probably, and perhaps only 2 Mutavault. Just a thought. Without a fully fetched out mana base it's hard to consider. I would really feel a lot more comfortable w/2 more fetches, but that would also be a lot of pain.
At this point, wouldn't it just be better to cut Brimaz and Tidehollow Sculler for Goyf and Dismember and Slaughter Pact for Abrupt Decay and play Junk?
Sure...if you had an extra $1200-$1400 to play with. In all seriousness though, I was just thinking Scavenging Ooze offers some ability to close out a game but more importantly the ability to handle graveyard play. However running a minimal amount of green mana would be hard, and cutting down on Mutavault hurts Pack Rat, so I'm not 100% sold it would actually make the deck perform better. It was just a thought more than anything.
I've played both junk and deadguy. They are both awesome and really fun, but the reason I'm on deadguy for now is the super consistent mana base. Sure Abrupt Decay, Goyf and Ooze are all awesome, but personally I love never having to worry about casting my spells on curve or just straight up loosing because I couldn't get all my colors. In the end I think the choice is dictated more by what mood you're in more.
I've played both junk and deadguy. They are both awesome and really fun, but the reason I'm on deadguy for now is the super consistent mana base. Sure Abrupt Decay, Goyf and Ooze are all awesome, but personally I love never having to worry about casting my spells on curve or just straight up loosing because I couldn't get all my colors. In the end I think the choice is dictated more by what mood you're in more.
I agree. I just think that if you are going to splash fro green you should go all the way in.
And if you happen to have Pack Rat online or have a good opening hand of discard, Murderous Cut makes a lot of sense in this list.
Yeah I could see a one of to replace a Darkblast, Dismember, or Slaughter Pact in the main. Sorin, Solemn Visitor is definitely going in mine. Unrelated I added Ajani Goldmane as my second walker...he is pretty good.
I saw someone mention perhaps doing Seeker of the Way, and I could see the benefits of that. Especially for someone not running Bob.
On another unrelated note, I only started playing Magic in January, so this deck is new to me. I played it online for the first time today, and Hero of Bladehold gives other attacking creatures +1/0...Battle Cry. Yeah, I didn't know what that was when I read the card. I think I skimmed it and thought Battle Cry was the put two 1/1 attacking soldiers on the battlefield. She is awesome!
Now to play to learn what constitutes a good keep with this deck...and eventually what to sideboard in/out. Excited!
Yeah, Seeker of the Way was my idea I've played a couple of games with it and it was actually really good. I'm not sure why it would be better in a list without Dark Confidant though, since Dark Confidant let's you draw more cards so you can play more spells each turn to pump Seeker of the Way. Also, even if Seeker of the Way and Dark Confidant don't have any interaction between themselves they both like being in decks that keep a low curve.
I think Utter End and Murderous Cut might be good in a deck that don't run Bob but I don't see ether of them being good enough to take the place of any of the 4- or 5-drops in a deck that does run him.
I've also been pondering Empty the Pits as a one of finisher i my low curve deck. Since it's an X-spell it still "only" deals 4 damage to you if you reveal it off of Dark Confidant, and with Pack Rat, Liliana of the Veil and the fetch-lands filling up your grave isn't to hard.
Here is an updated version of my deck. I call it Orzhov Rat Seeker Not really sure about the sideboard though. Enjoy!
I don't thnk murderous cut a good idea. Flipping 5 to bob just for a removal spell is no bueno.. I'd much rather flip a baneslayer angel if I'm going to lose 5 life
Yeah, Seeker of the Way was my idea I've played a couple of games with it and it was actually really good. I'm not sure why it would be better in a list without Dark Confidant though, since Dark Confidant let's you draw more cards so you can play more spells each turn to pump Seeker of the Way. Also, even if Seeker of the Way and Dark Confidant don't have any interaction between themselves they both like being in decks that keep a low curve.
I think Utter End and Murderous Cut might be good in a deck that don't run Bob but I don't see ether of them being good enough to take the place of any of the 4- or 5-drops in a deck that does run him.
I've also been pondering Empty the Pits as a one of finisher i my low curve deck. Since it's an X-spell it still "only" deals 4 damage to you if you reveal it off of Dark Confidant, and with Pack Rat, Liliana of the Veil and the fetch-lands filling up your grave isn't to hard.
Here is an updated version of my deck. I call it Orzhov Rat Seeker Not really sure about the sideboard though. Enjoy!
My fault, I thought you had used Seeker of the Way because you didn't have Dark Confidant. I agree they would work well together. I was forgetting Murderous Cut that even if it ends up being cast for 1 or 2 mana is still triggering for 5 off Bob...ouch.
I'm very interested in your 8 fetches with only 7 targetable lands. Certainly the odds of you running into an issue of ever needing to target 8 is slim to none, but I'm curious if this is an intentional effort to fetch more in an effort to keep more "juice" coming off the top? Also it coincidentally helps you push an Empty the Pits if you so desire. In that regard running a Darkblast could help with that as well. Not sure what you would replace, maybe Raven's Crime but I'm assuming that's there for the occasional T2 double hand removal play.
Yeah, you do not want to play Murder that deals 5 to you
Too be honest I didn't even reflect on there only being 7 land that can be fetched, but I'm not worried about it. Even if you would draw only fetchlands the entire game, 7 lands are more than plenty. And since we've got Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth we may not even have to crack all fetchland to get mana out of them.
You are totally right about the "juice" statement. The later in the game - the more fetchlands you've cracked - the more likey you are not to draw any of the fetchable lands.
I would say that the even bigger reason to run as many fetchlands though, is simply that it's the best land card. If there was an orzhov fastland or manland I would consider playing some number of those but the enemy colors are a bit neglected in modern. Fetid Heath feel a bit too risky with 6 colorless lands in the deck.
Regarding Empty the Pits I didn't tweak the list to much to fit it in, it just felt like the most fun and interactive choice for this particular list.
The main reason that Raven's Crime is in the list is because it's really nice with Seeker of the Way, turning every unnecessary land you draw into a pump spell. Zealous Persecution is also there to be able to interact with Seeker of the Way, as it essentially turns him into a Batterskull until the end of turn while also shrinking the opponents team.
I do like Darkblast but I didn't find room for it.
Creatures:
4x Dark Confidant
4x Pack Rat
3x Kitchen Finks
3x Blade Splicer
3x Restoration Angel
3x Tidehollow Sculler
Spells
4x Thoughtseize
3x Inquistion of Kozilek
3x Lingering Souls
4x Path to Exile
1x Smother
1x Doom Blade
Lands
1x Vault of the Archangel
3x Tectonic Edge
4x Marsh Flats
4x Godless Shrine
2x Isolated Chapel
1x Caves of Kolios
1x Fetid Heath
1x Urborg, tomb of Yawgmoth
3x Plains
2x Swamp
1x Arid Mesa
1x Verdant Catacombs
Sideboard
1x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Kor Firewalker
2x Stony Silence
2x Disenchant
2x Wrath of God
2x Relic of Progentus
2x Shadow of Doubt
1x Zealous Persecution
Matches
Rd1 Waste Not (1-0)
G1 he rips my hand, drops double rack, however I do see oblibterator, so I side in wraths, plus leyline and Disencants
G2 I beat him down
G3 Leyline in opening hand, he plays double obliterator (too greedy) I wrath and smoke him
Rd2 Kikki-Pod (1-1)
G1 I Keep a slightly risky hand he combos me out
G2 I catch his fetch with t2 shadow, wrath his 2 mana dorks, he chords for another, I also break Pod before he can Pod, but only had a finks to beat with never drew another beater till too late, I got pretty unlucky here.
Rd3 (1-1-1) Elves
G1 his hand is fast but I hold him off and start beating with angel, however he eventually draws Pact and hoofs me (long game 1)
G2 I wrath is dorks crush him
G3 I again kill his dorks, but we run out of time I was going to be able to kill him on my next turn
Rd4 (2-1-1) Junk
Pretty one sided I crushed him both games even though he had 3 lillys game 2, Angel + splicer really shined here.
Rd5 (2-2-1) Rug/Twin
I got crushed here and prob miss boarded a bit admittedly I have played against UR twin a lot and this not so much, problem I had was I had to keep disrupting the combo, but then had no answer to huntmaster and Goyfs.
My own comments about the deck
I played finks because it helped improve the burn match up and was decent against affinity and junk/rock variants
however he was pretty terrible against Pod and Rug Twin prob should have sided him out rd 5
Pack Rat did nothing for me all day though mostly due to either getting killed of discarded
I only had a Bob in a keepable opening hand 1 time, and only ever dre 2 all day very unlucky in that regard
Wrath of God was my MVP in my sideboard
Changes I am considering if I stick with this deck
Less rats (3)
reconsider running finks, prob 2 brimaz
Restoration Angel was very good I won every game I played it except the one that went to time, is the main reason I ran finks over Brimaz from the get go
Shadow of doubt while cute prob should be something else Lilly maybe, more removal possibly.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
I also like that besides the Rug match up I felt the deck had game against pod eventhough I got beat I think I got pretty unlucky in game 2, I flooded bad and never drew another threat besides the 1 finks in my opener until I got a bob too late.
B/W CONTROL
3 pack rat
2 hero of bladehold
Spells
4 lingering souls
4 thoughtseize
4 inquisition of kozelik
3 phyrexian arena
3 sorin solemn visitor
1 liliana of the veil
4 path to exile
2 dismember
2 wrath of god
2 nevermore
2 runed halo
4 godless shrine
4 marsh flats
2 verdant catacombs
3 arid Mesa
2 swamp
2 plains
1 fetid Heath
3 mutavault
2 tectonic edge
1 urborg tomb of yawgmoth
Ideally against combo decks you know what they are playing by turn 2. For example, against scapeshift, turn one hand disruption, t2 runed halo naming valakut. Turn 3 nevermore naming cryptic command, is pretty much game. This can be applied across a few different combo decks.
Against swarm and pod, pretty straight forward; disrupt, remove, gain protection from, board wipe.
Sorin is a beast with lingering souls or hero of bladehold. With hero out sorin makes her swing for 10.. Turn 2 clock.
Help and suggestions are welcome. Again not sure if this is viable or not
I've played a lot with obliterator and he's a delight but you gotta switch around the manabase a bit (stuff like a second urborg and more fetid heaths over something like Isolated Chapel that would be better otherwise).
I've been thinking about proxying it to see if it's viable, but seems difficult if I want to run 4 mutavault and 2 ghost quarter.
2 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Dark Confidant
3 Pack Rat
3 Scavenging Ooze
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
Spells 19
1 Darkblast
1 Slaughter Pact
4 Path to Exile
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Dismember
4 Lingering Souls
1 Batterskull
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Ajani Steadfast
Land - 24
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Plains
1 Overgrown Tomb
3 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
4 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Mutavault
2 Disenchant
2 Stony Silence
2 Damnation
1 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Darkblast
1 Pithing Needle
2 Mirran Crusader
3 Fulminator Mage
Mana base wise, it will probably require a couple more fetches, Marsh Flats probably, and perhaps only 2 Mutavault. Just a thought. Without a fully fetched out mana base it's hard to consider. I would really feel a lot more comfortable w/2 more fetches, but that would also be a lot of pain.
At this point, wouldn't it just be better to cut Brimaz and Tidehollow Sculler for Goyf and Dismember and Slaughter Pact for Abrupt Decay and play Junk?
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Sure...if you had an extra $1200-$1400 to play with. In all seriousness though, I was just thinking Scavenging Ooze offers some ability to close out a game but more importantly the ability to handle graveyard play. However running a minimal amount of green mana would be hard, and cutting down on Mutavault hurts Pack Rat, so I'm not 100% sold it would actually make the deck perform better. It was just a thought more than anything.
I agree. I just think that if you are going to splash fro green you should go all the way in.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Yeah I could see a one of to replace a Darkblast, Dismember, or Slaughter Pact in the main. Sorin, Solemn Visitor is definitely going in mine. Unrelated I added Ajani Goldmane as my second walker...he is pretty good.
I saw someone mention perhaps doing Seeker of the Way, and I could see the benefits of that. Especially for someone not running Bob.
On another unrelated note, I only started playing Magic in January, so this deck is new to me. I played it online for the first time today, and Hero of Bladehold gives other attacking creatures +1/0...Battle Cry. Yeah, I didn't know what that was when I read the card. I think I skimmed it and thought Battle Cry was the put two 1/1 attacking soldiers on the battlefield. She is awesome!
Now to play to learn what constitutes a good keep with this deck...and eventually what to sideboard in/out. Excited!
I think Utter End and Murderous Cut might be good in a deck that don't run Bob but I don't see ether of them being good enough to take the place of any of the 4- or 5-drops in a deck that does run him.
I've also been pondering Empty the Pits as a one of finisher i my low curve deck. Since it's an X-spell it still "only" deals 4 damage to you if you reveal it off of Dark Confidant, and with Pack Rat, Liliana of the Veil and the fetch-lands filling up your grave isn't to hard.
Here is an updated version of my deck. I call it Orzhov Rat Seeker Not really sure about the sideboard though. Enjoy!
4 Dark Confidant
4 Pack Rat
4 Seeker of the Way
SORCERIES (12)
4 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Raven's Crime
4 Lingering Souls
INSTANTS (9)
1 Slaughter Pact
4 Path to Exile
1 Smother
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Dismember
1 Empty the Pits
3 Liliana of the Veil
LANDS (24)
4 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
3 Godless Shrine
2 Isolated Chapel
4 Mutavault
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Disenchant
2 Stony Silence
1 Zealous Persecution
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Dismember
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
My fault, I thought you had used Seeker of the Way because you didn't have Dark Confidant. I agree they would work well together. I was forgetting Murderous Cut that even if it ends up being cast for 1 or 2 mana is still triggering for 5 off Bob...ouch.
I'm very interested in your 8 fetches with only 7 targetable lands. Certainly the odds of you running into an issue of ever needing to target 8 is slim to none, but I'm curious if this is an intentional effort to fetch more in an effort to keep more "juice" coming off the top? Also it coincidentally helps you push an Empty the Pits if you so desire. In that regard running a Darkblast could help with that as well. Not sure what you would replace, maybe Raven's Crime but I'm assuming that's there for the occasional T2 double hand removal play.
Too be honest I didn't even reflect on there only being 7 land that can be fetched, but I'm not worried about it. Even if you would draw only fetchlands the entire game, 7 lands are more than plenty. And since we've got Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth we may not even have to crack all fetchland to get mana out of them.
You are totally right about the "juice" statement. The later in the game - the more fetchlands you've cracked - the more likey you are not to draw any of the fetchable lands.
I would say that the even bigger reason to run as many fetchlands though, is simply that it's the best land card. If there was an orzhov fastland or manland I would consider playing some number of those but the enemy colors are a bit neglected in modern. Fetid Heath feel a bit too risky with 6 colorless lands in the deck.
Regarding Empty the Pits I didn't tweak the list to much to fit it in, it just felt like the most fun and interactive choice for this particular list.
The main reason that Raven's Crime is in the list is because it's really nice with Seeker of the Way, turning every unnecessary land you draw into a pump spell. Zealous Persecution is also there to be able to interact with Seeker of the Way, as it essentially turns him into a Batterskull until the end of turn while also shrinking the opponents team.
I do like Darkblast but I didn't find room for it.
There is a fast land, Isolated Chapel and you did determine to run 2 lol.
Nice tech on Raven's Crime though.