I'd go with a 2/2 split on Tasigurs and Myths. Myth can win games out of nowhere if left unchecked, yet Tasigur grants card advantage and fuels delve at the same time, while being an unconditional 4/5.
I can't support only 2 Myth Realized in any deck. It's always a 3-4-of or bust for me. Against aggro/combo/ramp, you need to stick Myth Realized on Turns 1-2 in order for it to do anything useful (yes, this includes MR being able to chump-block against aggro). It's rather like Delver of Secrets in that aspect.
I'd go with a 4/X MR/Tasigur split, a 3/X split, or a 0/X split. Tasigur is a late-game topdeck bomb and an early-midgame solid play, so I'm fine with fewer of him. Whenever I play a poor topdeck (such as MR), I tend to need a lot of it in the deck.
My MR Mentor build has 22 lands, no 4-drops (although I do want a touch of life gain back, Vault of the Archangel generally underperforms hard for me no matter what deck I play, I'm leery about 4-drops when I play less than 23 lands, and MR wants moar Seachrome Coast), 4 MRs (the early ones are monsters, the late ones sort of suck but that's the price you pay), 1 Tasigur (used to be 2; wouldn't mind a second again), 3 Mentor (something had to go for 4 MRs, and I basically always have to have a noncreature spell in hand whenever I resolve Mentor, anyway, so he behaves more like a 4-drop for me), 2 Slaughter Pact (free spells are so good with Mentor), 1 Murderous Cut (I suspect 2 would put too much stress on my graveyard, especially if Tasigur #2 comes back), and 1 Think Twice (it's not triggering enough Prowess compared to Souls, I'm not self-milling it often enough, and 3-mana Flashback is freaking slow--I'm pulling it for something else that triggers Prowess really soon--should it be life gain or a better cantrip like Anticipate?).
I'd go with a 2/2 split on Tasigurs and Myths. Myth can win games out of nowhere if left unchecked, yet Tasigur grants card advantage and fuels delve at the same time, while being an unconditional 4/5.
I can't support only 2 Myth Realized in any deck. It's always a 3-4-of or bust for me. Against aggro/combo/ramp, you need to stick Myth Realized on Turns 1-2 in order for it to do anything useful (yes, this includes MR being able to chump-block against aggro). It's rather like Delver of Secrets in that aspect.
I'd go with a 4/X MR/Tasigur split, a 3/X split, or a 0/X split. Tasigur is a late-game topdeck bomb and an early-midgame solid play, so I'm fine with fewer of him. Whenever I play a poor topdeck (such as MR), I tend to need a lot of it in the deck.
My MR Mentor build has 22 lands, no 4-drops (although I do want a touch of life gain back, Vault of the Archangel generally underperforms hard for me no matter what deck I play, I'm leery about 4-drops when I play less than 23 lands, and MR wants moar Seachrome Coast), 4 MRs (the early ones are monsters, the late ones sort of suck but that's the price you pay), 1 Tasigur (used to be 2; wouldn't mind a second again), 3 Mentor (something had to go for 4 MRs, and I basically always have to have a noncreature spell in hand whenever I resolve Mentor, anyway, so he behaves more like a 4-drop for me), 2 Slaughter Pact (free spells are so good with Mentor), 1 Murderous Cut (I suspect 2 would put too much stress on my graveyard, especially if Tasigur #2 comes back), and 1 Think Twice (it's not triggering enough Prowess compared to Souls, I'm not self-milling it often enough, and 3-mana Flashback is freaking slow--I'm pulling it for something else that triggers Prowess really soon--should it be life gain or a better cantrip like Anticipate?).
I don't like splitting MR and Tasigur because MR doesn't fill the yard and Murderous Cut is a fantastic card that I always want to play 2 copies of in this deck. Playing MR and Tasigur together means less spells filling your grave, which makes Tasigur and Cut both more difficult to cast.
I like Pacts in the SB more because of the "nonblack" clause, and I think Cuts are just better. Free spells are great with mentor, but I don't think this deck is actually that mentor-centric.
I'm also interested in playing Anticipate. Currently I'm running 4/4 Serum Visions and Thought Scour, so I'm not sure if I want any more cantrips. I'm not running any form of permission though, so there's no tension with permission spells.
It's not a reliable counter until you have board presence.
Obviously it does nothing until something hits the board, but with Snapcaster, spirit and monk tokens the cost seems small... remand is a tempo play, and well this deck needs something more I feel like. 2 Remand is not often going to find your hand early in the game. That being said and with a bit more thought I considered t4, 1cmc spell, remand that spell play it again.... thats 3 monks and 3 prowess triggers plus a draw... that seems strong. I'll test it again, maybe its weakest as a timewalk in the deck.
@Guineapirate - you're right. Still feels like more of an answer late game than Remand. There's also Deprive.
I'm thinking of including a singleton noxious revival. Instant speed get a card back with all the self milling seems like it could be viable, and instant speed free(ish) spells are good for triggering mentor and MR. Thoughts?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UWR Breach, UWB Esper control
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
I'm thinking of including a singleton noxious revival. Instant speed get a card back with all the self milling seems like it could be viable, and instant speed free(ish) spells are good for triggering mentor and MR. Thoughts?
it's card disadvantage so outsde of game winning combos, i wouldnt play that card
I experimented with it a bit. If you have it you want to drop any 4-drops (I run Sorin) and it becomes a much more aggro style deck. It does work for sure, but you need to play a very different game with it than without.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UWR Breach, UWB Esper control
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
So, what do you people think of Sorin, Lord of Innistrad vs. Sorin, Solemn Visitor on the mentor lists? In my testing the solemn visitor showed to be more effective, the lifegain being really useful, but both lists from the japanese top 8 played the lord of innistrad so I'm no certain.
Woooo, highlight of my life playing this deck against Tron last night. I got him down to 2 but he stabilized and got enough mana to cast Emrakul. So he taps all his lands, casts Emrakul, and has 1 mana floating, so he goes ahead and casts the Chromatic Star out of his hand, his last card. I kill him with Countersquall. Would've paid anything to see the look on his face.
Also 3-1'ed a Modern Daily last night, finishing like 6th or something. Beat 4C Gifts, Ad Nauseam/Phyrexian Unlife, and Affinity before losing to UR Twin in the 4th round. Had a blast even though I sideboarded like an idiot against Twin (forgot to bring in Curse of Death's Hold for example, why the hell is it even there if not for twin lol). In my defense, it was like 1 in the morning and I was incredibly tired.
why would you board curse of death's hold vs twin? because of snappies and 1 pestermite? dont think that's good. i think the only reason it is there are token matchups and obv. infect where it's an insta win!
edit: ahh i got it. lol he can still make infinite blockers
Here is my list currently. I feel like Sorin, Solemn Visitor is great in this deck. The lifelink to all creatures is fantastic in the mid game. I still like the 2 remand and 2 spell snare are the right cards for me as well. I have been doing pretty well in testing. I like that this deck can have an explosive turn 4 with a good opening hand, and even be controlling enough to work through a bad start. The side board is a little rough, but has been ok so far. No unwinnable matchups so far, which is nice, but some are definitely rough for me (looking at you cruel control, I hate playing that deck).
P.S. I keep liking Lingering souls more and more. That card is really good.
why would you board curse of death's hold vs twin? because of snappies and 1 pestermite? dont think that's good. i think the only reason it is there are token matchups and obv. infect where it's an insta win!
edit: ahh i got it. lol he can still make infinite blockers
Yeah, it completely nerfs their combo. Also, a lot of lists have a couple copies of random stuff like Vendilion Clique and/or Grim Lavamancer that can be a pain to deal with when you're grinding them out.
You can play them but definitely not in big numbers.
Some list run 1 or 2 copies of either Darkslick Shores, Seachrome Coast or a split. I play 1 Seachrome Coast in my list for example.
Played my first local tourney yesterday with the Japanse deck standard. Replaced the remands with Serum Visions to keep the same number of cantrips. Replaced the disfigure and 1 slaughter pact with 2 Myth realized. Replaced 1 Spell Snare with a Negate. Sideboard was just some stuff I threw together, hoping for no burn matchups.
Won my first 3 matches against a discard deck (Creeping Tar pit was the star here), elves combo (Zealous Persecution won me a very easy victory G3) and a persist/undying creature deck (where i drew perfectly and finished both games victoriously and with ease).
Last game vs the Boros Bridge deck. Main deck: Anger of the gods, blood moon, wrath of god, ghostly prison and ensnaring bridge + 11 spot removal (path, bol, helix). I keep a rather slow hand and get locked out and beaten down by espleth tokens.
Second game I need to mull to 6 then I play discard t2 (see no blood moon), land my lingering souls t3 (I ned to get some pressure on the board fast) and get smacked by Blood Moon with no white (I could not fetch for it) and I'll never see it either (I had fetched for black and blue so I put up a little bit of resistance). Overall the matchup seems very, very poor for us. No maindecked creatures gives us tonnes of dead cards G1.
Odds are I'm coming up against this deck again in the future, what enchantment hosers do we have in our colors? (Finished 3rd btw)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I can't support only 2 Myth Realized in any deck. It's always a 3-4-of or bust for me. Against aggro/combo/ramp, you need to stick Myth Realized on Turns 1-2 in order for it to do anything useful (yes, this includes MR being able to chump-block against aggro). It's rather like Delver of Secrets in that aspect.
I'd go with a 4/X MR/Tasigur split, a 3/X split, or a 0/X split. Tasigur is a late-game topdeck bomb and an early-midgame solid play, so I'm fine with fewer of him. Whenever I play a poor topdeck (such as MR), I tend to need a lot of it in the deck.
My MR Mentor build has 22 lands, no 4-drops (although I do want a touch of life gain back, Vault of the Archangel generally underperforms hard for me no matter what deck I play, I'm leery about 4-drops when I play less than 23 lands, and MR wants moar Seachrome Coast), 4 MRs (the early ones are monsters, the late ones sort of suck but that's the price you pay), 1 Tasigur (used to be 2; wouldn't mind a second again), 3 Mentor (something had to go for 4 MRs, and I basically always have to have a noncreature spell in hand whenever I resolve Mentor, anyway, so he behaves more like a 4-drop for me), 2 Slaughter Pact (free spells are so good with Mentor), 1 Murderous Cut (I suspect 2 would put too much stress on my graveyard, especially if Tasigur #2 comes back), and 1 Think Twice (it's not triggering enough Prowess compared to Souls, I'm not self-milling it often enough, and 3-mana Flashback is freaking slow--I'm pulling it for something else that triggers Prowess really soon--should it be life gain or a better cantrip like Anticipate?).
is Familiar's Ruse just better? Cast, Make monk, sac monk?!
a list of cards I'll be testing:
Hindering Light
Imp's Mischief
Piracy Charm
Merchant Scroll
Castigate
Squelch
Sunlance
Surgical Extraction
Tragic Slip
Trickbind
Triton Tactics
Warped Physique
It's not a reliable counter until you have board presence. It's insanely good with Snapcaster Mage.
I don't like splitting MR and Tasigur because MR doesn't fill the yard and Murderous Cut is a fantastic card that I always want to play 2 copies of in this deck. Playing MR and Tasigur together means less spells filling your grave, which makes Tasigur and Cut both more difficult to cast.
I like Pacts in the SB more because of the "nonblack" clause, and I think Cuts are just better. Free spells are great with mentor, but I don't think this deck is actually that mentor-centric.
I'm also interested in playing Anticipate. Currently I'm running 4/4 Serum Visions and Thought Scour, so I'm not sure if I want any more cantrips. I'm not running any form of permission though, so there's no tension with permission spells.
Anyway, this is the list I'm settling on:
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Monastery Mentor
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Spells (26)
3 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Path to Exile
4 Serum Visions
4 Thought Scour
4 Lingering Souls
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2 Murderous Cut
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Watery Grave
2 Godless Shrine
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Marsh Flats
3 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Slaughter Pact
1 Thoughtseize
2 Disenchant
2 Spellskite
2 Stony Silence
2 Zealous Persecution
4 Timely Reinforcements
The MR version I tested plays 4x MR instead of 3 Tasigurs and 1 Thoughtseize. The TS is moved to the side with one less Timely.
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
Obviously it does nothing until something hits the board, but with Snapcaster, spirit and monk tokens the cost seems small... remand is a tempo play, and well this deck needs something more I feel like. 2 Remand is not often going to find your hand early in the game. That being said and with a bit more thought I considered t4, 1cmc spell, remand that spell play it again.... thats 3 monks and 3 prowess triggers plus a draw... that seems strong. I'll test it again, maybe its weakest as a timewalk in the deck.
@Guineapirate - you're right. Still feels like more of an answer late game than Remand. There's also Deprive.
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
Also 3-1'ed a Modern Daily last night, finishing like 6th or something. Beat 4C Gifts, Ad Nauseam/Phyrexian Unlife, and Affinity before losing to UR Twin in the 4th round. Had a blast even though I sideboarded like an idiot against Twin (forgot to bring in Curse of Death's Hold for example, why the hell is it even there if not for twin lol). In my defense, it was like 1 in the morning and I was incredibly tired.
edit: ahh i got it. lol he can still make infinite blockers
2 drowned catacomb
2 Flooded strand
2 glacial fortress
2 godless shrine
2 hallowed fountain
3 polluted delta
1 watery grave
1 island
1 plains
1 swamp
4 Monastery Mentor
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Tasigur, the golden fang
3 Myth Realized
2 Murderous cut
2 Remand
2 Spell Snare
4 Path to exile
4 thought scour
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 thoughtseize
4 Lingering souls
3 serum visions
1 Sorin, solemn visitor
1 curse of death's Hold
1 detention sphere
1 cyclonic rift
2 disenchant
2 dismember
1 liliana of the veil
2 thoughtseize
3 timely reinforcements
1 mana leak
Here is my list currently. I feel like Sorin, Solemn Visitor is great in this deck. The lifelink to all creatures is fantastic in the mid game. I still like the 2 remand and 2 spell snare are the right cards for me as well. I have been doing pretty well in testing. I like that this deck can have an explosive turn 4 with a good opening hand, and even be controlling enough to work through a bad start. The side board is a little rough, but has been ok so far. No unwinnable matchups so far, which is nice, but some are definitely rough for me (looking at you cruel control, I hate playing that deck).
P.S. I keep liking Lingering souls more and more. That card is really good.
Yeah, it completely nerfs their combo. Also, a lot of lists have a couple copies of random stuff like Vendilion Clique and/or Grim Lavamancer that can be a pain to deal with when you're grinding them out.
You can play them but definitely not in big numbers.
Some list run 1 or 2 copies of either Darkslick Shores, Seachrome Coast or a split. I play 1 Seachrome Coast in my list for example.
Tap land Ghost Quarter said land, fetch swamp, play Tasigur?
Or Spreading Seas?
Won my first 3 matches against a discard deck (Creeping Tar pit was the star here), elves combo (Zealous Persecution won me a very easy victory G3) and a persist/undying creature deck (where i drew perfectly and finished both games victoriously and with ease).
Last game vs the Boros Bridge deck. Main deck: Anger of the gods, blood moon, wrath of god, ghostly prison and ensnaring bridge + 11 spot removal (path, bol, helix). I keep a rather slow hand and get locked out and beaten down by espleth tokens.
Second game I need to mull to 6 then I play discard t2 (see no blood moon), land my lingering souls t3 (I ned to get some pressure on the board fast) and get smacked by Blood Moon with no white (I could not fetch for it) and I'll never see it either (I had fetched for black and blue so I put up a little bit of resistance). Overall the matchup seems very, very poor for us. No maindecked creatures gives us tonnes of dead cards G1.
Odds are I'm coming up against this deck again in the future, what enchantment hosers do we have in our colors? (Finished 3rd btw)