I'm interested in trying Narset Transcendent in this deck. Esper Mentor seems to fit the three main qualifications for Narset being a good card, namely 1) It's a blue and white deck; 2) It naturally has a high number of nonland, noncreature cards to draw off the first ability; and 3) it has spells that are worth rebounding (Souls seems great but Murderous Cut would be nice in the right situation and even Serum Visions would could let you set up a guaranteed card if you ticked up Narset next turn). Also, the ultimate could actually lock some decks out of the game in Modern as opposed to standard. Off the top of my head, it seems like it would be really good against control decks because they'd be hard pressed to generate enough burn to actually kill the high loyalty and the card advantage would be good.
I really feel like this should be the deck that makes Quicken a thing. Draw step discard, instant speed serum visions and lingering souls... I don't play this deck and I really don't have the inclination to pick up another modern deck... but I really would love to see some Esper Midrange rocking Quicken
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Modern Decks
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
I'm interested in trying Narset Transcendent in this deck. Esper Mentor seems to fit the three main qualifications for Narset being a good card, namely 1) It's a blue and white deck; 2) It naturally has a high number of nonland, noncreature cards to draw off the first ability; and 3) it has spells that are worth rebounding (Souls seems great but Murderous Cut would be nice in the right situation and even Serum Visions would could let you set up a guaranteed card if you ticked up Narset next turn). Also, the ultimate could actually lock some decks out of the game in Modern as opposed to standard. Off the top of my head, it seems like it would be really good against control decks because they'd be hard pressed to generate enough burn to actually kill the high loyalty and the card advantage would be good.
Narset does sound interesting.
To be honest Narset Transcendent, Anticipate and Myth Realized are the 3 cards Im most excited about from Dragons of Tarkir.
I will definitely try out all three cards in various decks.
This decks looks awesome and I'm excited to try it out. I don't know if this has been discussed but what are your guys thoughts on Pack Rat in this deck as well as Mana Tithe? Pack Rat fuels delve and he is a mana sink by himself. Mana Tithe is a very aggressive counterspell that can protect our Mentors in a pinch. This is my take on Mentor so far (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-monastery-delve/)
Just my opinion but pack rat seems anti-synergistic with mentor to me. You don't want to be discarding your spells that trigger mentor and his tokens to make rats. Personally I want the tokens and prowess triggers.
As for mana tithe, this deck plays blue. Mana tithe doesn't do anything better than a number of blue counters do, or black disruption/removal does.
That said, I do believe anything is worth a try, but these options are outclassed by lots of other cards.
On a side note, I have come around to lingering souls after playing it a lot more. I was wrong, I AM a lingering souls kind of guy!
On a side note, I have come around to lingering souls after playing it a lot more. I was wrong, I AM a lingering souls kind of guy!
Haha you are not the only one. You just look at the card, shrug your shoulders and say "Yeah, it's a fine card I guess".
It's not obvious how much power the card actually has until you have seen it in action or have played with it.
I mean who would have thought that it would become one of Moderns key cards? It's actually right above Tarmogoyf currently when looking at the most played cards in the format.
If you want to play Mana Tithe, you are better off with Spell Pierce as a 1 mana counter. The surprise factor of leaving up a white source is nice, but I feel like plays that rely on surprises like that aren't consistent enough to work well.
On another note, I have been really liking quicken in these lists as a 2 of. Instant speed cantrips to trigger mentor is great, but the value of being able to thoughtseize/IoK in response to an exarch, or just during the opponents draw step is great. Plus end of turn Lingering Souls, triggering mentor twice is fantastic, same goes for serum visions. There are enough sorceries to make it relevant, and at the very least it's an instant cantrip. I'm also thinking about Anticipate, but 2 mana kind of hurts it. Has anyone experimented with Narset? As far as 4 mana walkers go, I have been liking Sorin, Solemn Visitor for extra damage and life gain, so the CC of Narset shouldn't kill her, but I'm not sure if it's justifiable.
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Modern: UWR Breach, UWB Esper control
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
Hi guys! Long time no see. I am really excited about being promoted to developing competitive, the deck is getting better and better and more players seem to gain interest in it. This makes me really happy, since as an Esper mage, I always wanted a viable deck in my favorite colors.
My 2 cents about the latest card discussions:
This card is sweet. I used to have it on the early primer from last year, but I feel like there's no room for it. Anyway, if you want to try it, here's my thinking about it:
When people see you leaving a Godless Shrine/Eiganjo Castle/Plains up, they expect Path to Exile, not Mana Tithe, so they don't really see it coming, when reaching T4 this becomes really relevant, as the curve toppers tend to appear and shine.
It's good vs Twin when they want to combo with protection.
As a twin player, if you play against any deck with blue, you always consider their mana up, your mana, and your counters. So you always go for it T5, T6 or T8+. Being, Spell Snare, Remand and Cryptic Command protections. Maybe multiple protections if T9+. Don't think for a second about 'It's modern, T4 Rule'. Because when playing combo vs Blue, you can't risk it. So, they will try to go off on top of the curve. Therefore, Tithe + any removal should be enough to keep them out of combo, plus getting more board pressure. After a counter war won by our end, twin will fold. This should work really well G1. Expect a different approach, even without the combo for G2 and G3. So I'd take em out after board, unless they hadn't seen it.
Once you countered something with it, people usually don't want to risk their key spells to Mana Tithe, so they will give you the gift of tempo. Just think of it as it's blue Legacy counterpart: Force Spike.
Cons:
It's a dead card late game, especially against fast decks like Burn, Zoo, Stompy, Tribal Zoo.
It will take the spot for a more-likely better counterspell, or discard/removal.
It's a reactive card, and these decks (all Esper Midrange variations) play a better proactive game, so it really doesn't suit the strategy.
Another great card choice. Quick can be a blast if your build goes with this cards:
I believe that Quicken has good potential on Delver builds, but wouldn't really be near as good in other BUW Midrange approach.
Pack Rat, I have to say, is a great card. A big threat on its own. A mana sinking creature that turns any top deck into more pack rats. A card that, if played at the right time, will force a 2-for-1 or die situation. Definitely a nice weapon of choice. Unfortunately, I have to disagree with being good in Delver builds. You see, in those kind of decks you want to fuel the yard by casting spells, not by making pack rats. You want to get a threat ASAP (a 4/5 with recursion, a big fat vanilla 5/5 or a 3/2 with flying) and protect it while beating hard since T3. So there's no place for the rat there, since anytime between turns 1-6 you just don't want to see it. Maybe in the board against control or something, I don't know, it doesn't really suit the speed up process of the Delver strategy.
However, for the more long term plan builds, it can be the bonkers as a 1-of (maybe 2-of), since you want to go longer and wider as the turns pass by, and nobody does this better than the Pack Rat.
Note: It is a myth that if you play Pack Rat you HAVE to play Mutavault. Don't let anyone bother you with that, and don't even try to fit it in this kind of 3 color deck, where mana issues lead to a loss in around 90% of the cases.
I won't write much about Lingering Souls, when a card has 2-4 slots in all BW combinations on all formats where its available, it's because the card has enough raw power to be considered. In modern, specially since Junk is around EVERY corner, the card is really good against Liliana of the Veil (and alongside her as well).
Hope this can help, enjoy your magic!! Happy gathering!!
EDIT: I forgot to mention these 2:
Myth Realized is a great mana sink, a great pressure point for Junk players to spend their Abrupt Decay, since the longer the game goes, the bigger threat it becomes. I wouldn't go and play a set, I think 2 is the right number for the card in this type of decks. I wouldn't play it in the Delver version though.
The other card I wanted to talk about is Secure the Wastes. This card may like like an underpowered Cheap Sun's Zenith (in reference to White Sun's Zenith, if someone doesn't know what I mean). But it could potentially be a blowout with Zealous Persecution and Sorin Solemn Visitor on board. I can't say it's viable, but it could be a thing as a 1-of Sideboard tech.
Her +1 whiffs a fair amount - and it's back-breaking because you literally wasted a turn.
Her -2 sounds good on paper, but rebound seems to be too slow for this format. I've often stared at my hand and realised that rebounding my spells aren't doing much. Being casted on your next upkeep really sucks.
I'd recommend just sticking to one of the BW Sorins.
I've also tested Myth Realized - it's amazing. The only thing is that I am unsure if 3 or 4 copies is correct. You always want to see it, but almost never want to see multiples.
I am building this deck as well. Got everything besides the sideboard and the remands. Not sure what I'll play instead of remand. Probably negate since we are already packing so much removal.
Her +1 whiffs a fair amount - and it's back-breaking because you literally wasted a turn.
Her -2 sounds good on paper, but rebound seems to be too slow for this format. I've often stared at my hand and realised that rebounding my spells aren't doing much. Being casted on your next upkeep really sucks.
I'd recommend just sticking to one of the BW Sorins.
I've also tested Myth Realized - it's amazing. The only thing is that I am unsure if 3 or 4 copies is correct. You always want to see it, but almost never want to see multiples.
Seems reasonable. Narset would probably only be a sideboard card anyways as there are too many matchups where she's awful maindeck. What does your list look like with the Myth Realized? I'd like to add 3 (I remember listening to a podcast where Patrick Chapin said that 3 is the ideal number of a card if you wanna maximize your chances of drawing it in your opening hand but not drawing multiple copies throughout the game) but not sure what should get the axe.
Dimir charm is neat idea. Fuels delve can whack a weenie and can randomly counter a sorcery. I don't know what sorcery would be prevalent, maybe anger of the Gods or opposing discard spells maybe. The fact it can be select-able delve fuel is sweet though, but I am not sure if it's powerful enough. Plus, 2 mana hurts it to be honest.
Her +1 whiffs a fair amount - and it's back-breaking because you literally wasted a turn.
Her -2 sounds good on paper, but rebound seems to be too slow for this format. I've often stared at my hand and realised that rebounding my spells aren't doing much. Being casted on your next upkeep really sucks.
I'd recommend just sticking to one of the BW Sorins.
I've also tested Myth Realized - it's amazing. The only thing is that I am unsure if 3 or 4 copies is correct. You always want to see it, but almost never want to see multiples.
I've tested 4 Myth Realized, and I think that's the correct number. I'm fine with seeing multiples because casting the second one charges up the first one, and I'm fine with seeing it late because it makes another Monk for only 1 mana with Monastery Mentor out.
I've also tested Myth Realized - it's amazing. The only thing is that I am unsure if 3 or 4 copies is correct. You always want to see it, but almost never want to see multiples.
What have you cut to make room for Myth Realized in testing?
I am building this deck as well. Got everything besides the sideboard and the remands. Not sure what I'll play instead of remand. Probably negate since we are already packing so much removal.
I have cut all permission from the deck in favor of the full discard suite and found that it works better.
Seems reasonable. Narset would probably only be a sideboard card anyways as there are too many matchups where she's awful maindeck. What does your list look like with the Myth Realized? I'd like to add 3 (I remember listening to a podcast where Patrick Chapin said that 3 is the ideal number of a card if you wanna maximize your chances of drawing it in your opening hand but not drawing multiple copies throughout the game) but not sure what should get the axe.
Narset is terrible in the matchups she is supposed to be good in as well. She has very little impact compared to, say, one of the sorins or even something quirky like ojutai's command.
I recommend cutting tasigurs for myth realized. I think for this deck you'd want one or the other.
I've also tested Myth Realized - it's amazing. The only thing is that I am unsure if 3 or 4 copies is correct. You always want to see it, but almost never want to see multiples.
What have you cut to make room for Myth Realized in testing?
Tasigurs.
I have no idea whether MR is actually better than tasigurs though - both are powerhouses.
I'm actually going to play with tasigurs again over MR just to compare him to my experiences with MR.
Perhaps it might be possible to cut mentors for MR and play tasigurs.
I'd go with a 2/2 split on Tasigurs and Myths. Myth can win games out of nowhere if left unchecked, yet Tasigur grants card advantage and fuels delve at the same time, while being an unconditional 4/5.
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I also agree that remand feels terrible in the deck, but I do like spell snare as I feel keeping a clean board state is optimal until t3.
Few cards I have and am Testing Gixatian Probe: this is basically just draw 1.... with all the disruption in your deck you already have a ton of ways to get information... I've considered Mutagenic Growth instead as a bolt protection / source of damage etc. Myth Realized: I like the card when I look at it, but every time I had it in play it just seemed like a win more. I don't need to win more... I just need to win. Shadow of Doubt: I replaced Remand with this. On the play, stifling your opponents mana and drawing feels really strong in the deck. Also has come in handy against all the big wigs (RG Tron, U Tron, Amulet Bloom, etc). At worst its a cantrip to fuel Mentor. At best its land destruction + draw. Surge of Righteousness: Straight replaced Celestial Purge, in the board. Not sure if its right or wrong. Great in the burn match up.
Moving forward. Im not a fan of Disfigure as a one of. Might push it up to 2 by removing a Thought Scour. Or potentially adding 2 geist or just upping the spell snare count to 3. I like the look of bauble.
Nothing feels better than casting Lingering Souls and getting free monk tokens.... 5 mana for 6 power is broken.
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KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
Narset does sound interesting.
To be honest Narset Transcendent, Anticipate and Myth Realized are the 3 cards Im most excited about from Dragons of Tarkir.
I will definitely try out all three cards in various decks.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
As for mana tithe, this deck plays blue. Mana tithe doesn't do anything better than a number of blue counters do, or black disruption/removal does.
That said, I do believe anything is worth a try, but these options are outclassed by lots of other cards.
On a side note, I have come around to lingering souls after playing it a lot more. I was wrong, I AM a lingering souls kind of guy!
Haha you are not the only one. You just look at the card, shrug your shoulders and say "Yeah, it's a fine card I guess".
It's not obvious how much power the card actually has until you have seen it in action or have played with it.
I mean who would have thought that it would become one of Moderns key cards? It's actually right above Tarmogoyf currently when looking at the most played cards in the format.
On another note, I have been really liking quicken in these lists as a 2 of. Instant speed cantrips to trigger mentor is great, but the value of being able to thoughtseize/IoK in response to an exarch, or just during the opponents draw step is great. Plus end of turn Lingering Souls, triggering mentor twice is fantastic, same goes for serum visions. There are enough sorceries to make it relevant, and at the very least it's an instant cantrip. I'm also thinking about Anticipate, but 2 mana kind of hurts it. Has anyone experimented with Narset? As far as 4 mana walkers go, I have been liking Sorin, Solemn Visitor for extra damage and life gain, so the CC of Narset shouldn't kill her, but I'm not sure if it's justifiable.
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
It's being upgraded next week! It has more than enough finishes in a few categories; I've had it on the radar since early March.
My 2 cents about the latest card discussions:
Pros:
Cons:
I believe that Quicken has good potential on Delver builds, but wouldn't really be near as good in other BUW Midrange approach.
However, for the more long term plan builds, it can be the bonkers as a 1-of (maybe 2-of), since you want to go longer and wider as the turns pass by, and nobody does this better than the Pack Rat.
Note: It is a myth that if you play Pack Rat you HAVE to play Mutavault. Don't let anyone bother you with that, and don't even try to fit it in this kind of 3 color deck, where mana issues lead to a loss in around 90% of the cases.
I won't write much about Lingering Souls, when a card has 2-4 slots in all BW combinations on all formats where its available, it's because the card has enough raw power to be considered. In modern, specially since Junk is around EVERY corner, the card is really good against Liliana of the Veil (and alongside her as well).
Hope this can help, enjoy your magic!! Happy gathering!!
EDIT: I forgot to mention these 2:
Myth Realized is a great mana sink, a great pressure point for Junk players to spend their Abrupt Decay, since the longer the game goes, the bigger threat it becomes. I wouldn't go and play a set, I think 2 is the right number for the card in this type of decks. I wouldn't play it in the Delver version though.
The other card I wanted to talk about is Secure the Wastes. This card may like like an underpowered Cheap Sun's Zenith (in reference to White Sun's Zenith, if someone doesn't know what I mean). But it could potentially be a blowout with Zealous Persecution and Sorin Solemn Visitor on board. I can't say it's viable, but it could be a thing as a 1-of Sideboard tech.
Her +1 whiffs a fair amount - and it's back-breaking because you literally wasted a turn.
Her -2 sounds good on paper, but rebound seems to be too slow for this format. I've often stared at my hand and realised that rebounding my spells aren't doing much. Being casted on your next upkeep really sucks.
I'd recommend just sticking to one of the BW Sorins.
I've also tested Myth Realized - it's amazing. The only thing is that I am unsure if 3 or 4 copies is correct. You always want to see it, but almost never want to see multiples.
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
Seems reasonable. Narset would probably only be a sideboard card anyways as there are too many matchups where she's awful maindeck. What does your list look like with the Myth Realized? I'd like to add 3 (I remember listening to a podcast where Patrick Chapin said that 3 is the ideal number of a card if you wanna maximize your chances of drawing it in your opening hand but not drawing multiple copies throughout the game) but not sure what should get the axe.
I've tested 4 Myth Realized, and I think that's the correct number. I'm fine with seeing multiples because casting the second one charges up the first one, and I'm fine with seeing it late because it makes another Monk for only 1 mana with Monastery Mentor out.
What have you cut to make room for Myth Realized in testing?
I have cut all permission from the deck in favor of the full discard suite and found that it works better.
Narset is terrible in the matchups she is supposed to be good in as well. She has very little impact compared to, say, one of the sorins or even something quirky like ojutai's command.
I recommend cutting tasigurs for myth realized. I think for this deck you'd want one or the other.
Tasigurs.
I have no idea whether MR is actually better than tasigurs though - both are powerhouses.
I'm actually going to play with tasigurs again over MR just to compare him to my experiences with MR.
Perhaps it might be possible to cut mentors for MR and play tasigurs.
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Monastery Mentor
4 Snapcaster Mage
SPELLS
2 Murderous Cut
4 Path to Exile
4 Thought Scour
3 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
2 Spell Snare
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Shadow of Doubt
1 Disfigure
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
LAND
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Island
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Marsh Flats
2 Watery Grave
4 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Vault of the Archangel
3 Timely Reinforcements
2 Stony Silence
2 Disenchant
1 Flashfreeze
1 Zealous Persecution
2 Countersquall
2 Surge of Righteousness
2 Deathmark
I also agree that remand feels terrible in the deck, but I do like spell snare as I feel keeping a clean board state is optimal until t3.
Few cards I have and am Testing
Gixatian Probe: this is basically just draw 1.... with all the disruption in your deck you already have a ton of ways to get information... I've considered Mutagenic Growth instead as a bolt protection / source of damage etc.
Myth Realized: I like the card when I look at it, but every time I had it in play it just seemed like a win more. I don't need to win more... I just need to win.
Shadow of Doubt: I replaced Remand with this. On the play, stifling your opponents mana and drawing feels really strong in the deck. Also has come in handy against all the big wigs (RG Tron, U Tron, Amulet Bloom, etc). At worst its a cantrip to fuel Mentor. At best its land destruction + draw.
Surge of Righteousness: Straight replaced Celestial Purge, in the board. Not sure if its right or wrong. Great in the burn match up.
Moving forward. Im not a fan of Disfigure as a one of. Might push it up to 2 by removing a Thought Scour. Or potentially adding 2 geist or just upping the spell snare count to 3. I like the look of bauble.
Nothing feels better than casting Lingering Souls and getting free monk tokens.... 5 mana for 6 power is broken.