Yeah that list is strange but somewhat understandable. He is essentially using bauble as a blue card. I personally feel bob would be better off as more blue cards as the splash really isn't worth it for only a few cards. Snapcaster is high impact but not as a 2 of neither is scour.
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Current Decks:
Modern: BG eldrazi midrange BWG Abzan value evolution BUG BUG Midrange
I mean wow.. the only blue symbols in the deck are Creeping tar pit, 2x Snapcaster, and 2x Thought Scour..strangest list I've seen
This is very similar to the first list I built with Fatal Push actually. If you're going to dip into blue but want to stay base BGx this is the most effective way I've found. You're essentially a BG Delirium deck splashing blue for Thought Scour (instant speed Delirium enabler), Snapcaster Mages and some sideboard countermagic to make the blue worthwhile. Honestly if I didn't enjoy playing with Cryptic Command so much I would probably running something very similar to this.
It is a great way to go for a more jund style of play although I don't agree with all their choices. I will miss liliana, discard and flayers but I want to try cryptics this friday.
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Current Decks:
Modern: BG eldrazi midrange BWG Abzan value evolution BUG BUG Midrange
7-0 on mtgo.
I've beat:
Grixis delver 2-0
Lantern control 2-0
RW burn 2-0
GW hatebear 2-0
Cherrios 2-0
Esper control 2-1
Goryo's Vengeance 2-0
Wasn't sure about manaleak but it gaves me games. I enjoyed it.
Stubborn is such an house in this deck. Has been the MVP against burn and grixis by far.
Just be prudent, if you own only 1 creature, even if you are able to play turn 2 tasigur/hooting..
sometimes it just better to wait at turn 3 to be able to protect it. I never tappedout.
With spellsnare, abrupt decay and maelstrom pulse, fighting ''rest in peace'' against hatebear hasnt been a problem at all.
Turn 2 end of turn abrupt decay rest in peace. My turn 3 though scour and play tasigur protected by stubborn denial. gg
And about my sb, yes I play 2x Baloth.. not bad against burn but playing it for jund.
I didnt fight jund yet with the deck but I have alot of respect for this deck (played it for 2 years)
I playtested AV alot and I'm not a fan.. When you finally draw the cards, it's most of time too late.
Happened often that I had 2 copies in top 10 cards... Could get some sb slots. Not sure if we really need it.
I would have like to find space for Vendillon clique (one of) to:
-See oponnent hand
-bait counterspell at the end of the oponent turn
-be able to draw the card scried on top with serum vision right now.
-be able to flash at the end of turn and finish a planewalker..
maybe I will try clique someday.
@Godrik1374
I like the list. I have an unhealthy love for Stubborn Denial. When I was playing my Delver variant I actually ran 4/3 Thought Cast over Serum Visions just to help get those Delve fatties down faster and to turn on Stubborn quicker. Just something to consider. Also I personally haven't found Damnation to be necessary, and these builds are a little more creature heavy so it's somewhat counter-intuitive to what we're doing as well. Have you found it to be that necessary? I have actually been running two Bitterblossom in the side now to help fight Grixis Delver, Control Variants, and it's also can be very good versus Affinity. Far better than Tarmogoyf is in the matchup.
Thanks for your reply, in my own opinion, I feel like this is necessary.
The deck is pretty good against others control deck. (Nahiri + Grixis)
Same against combo deck, we have good clock and infinite counter (even more post sb)
The only thing I'm affraid of is fast aggro decks like Merfolk, affinity and Eldrazi.
Sometimes the board become out of control and we need to stabilize.
Yes it kills your creature too but like I said, I try to have on board just 1-2 creature at a time and stay untap to protect it. You can also cryptic bounce your creature at the end of his turn.. before doing damnation.
I'm kinda new to sultai, played arround 200 games in the last 2 weeks on mtgo.
Still testing but I like what I'm playing
Back from FNM with my report. I took cryptic delve build with me. SB was different as I didn't have spreading seas. Probably would have made a huge difference
I'm not going to go too indepth in each match. I played against jund, bant eternal command, GW tron and GR tron. For reference, The last 4+ weeks I have been on sultai midrange, jund style deck and loved it. I had 4 top 8s in a row, one being a top 4. I just picked up cryptics and decided to give it a whirl. I went 0-4. Infact, I didn't even win a game. Not a single one. That hasn't happened to me in like 10+ years. I'm not 100% sure why. I didn't make any glaring mistakes although I'm sure my play wasn't super tight as I don't normally play counterspells. What the deck felt like was it just didn't do much. Sure I got to counter some spells but nothing seemed to line up right. I got flooded out a lot late game, didn't have enough threats or didn't have the counters I needed. It's hard to go 0-8 in games and not blame the deck though. I got out valued hard by bant command, he just always had counters to trump mine and got to use like infinity paths. Jund was jund and tron was tron. The lack of seas as I said was a real problem as I basically always lost to ugin's sanctum. my board was just eh vs tron. I think I'll give this build another run just to see but I'm not super impressed honestly. It's possible it was just a fluke week so I'm not going to rule that out.
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Current Decks:
Modern: BG eldrazi midrange BWG Abzan value evolution BUG BUG Midrange
I haven't been doing very well with the deck lately either. After the quick 5-0 and 4-1 in my opening two leagues it has gone really poorly lately. I think I had 5 wins total in my last 4 leagues with the Cryptic build. I definitely feel that to some extent the blame is on myself for keeping to many hands that likely should have been mulliganed. It's tough though because so many hands just have a mix of excellent cards that's easy to get trapped into looking at the power in hand versus your ability to interact throughout the game. The thing is modern, while slightly slower after the bans is still a fast format and if you aren't doing anything until T2 on the draw it's going to be hard coming back even with great cards in your hand.
Also I find this deck still can easily get stuck in the midrange trap of having the wrong cards in hand since the creatures tend to be proactive and the rest of the deck reactive. This is less of an issue than with the Grixis versions where almost all of their proactive cards (Lightning Bolt, Kolaghan's Command, Snapcaster Mage) are also reactive, save the Tasigur's. I'm not done with the deck, but I am trying out some other Sutlai brews for a bit. I went 3-2 in a league with an untested Sultai Death's Shadow brew heavy on hand disruption and running the full playset of Stubborn Denial backed up with 4 Death's Shadow, 4 Tarmogoyf and 4 Grim Flayer, and while I think that deck is a long way from ready it reminded me of how when I played BUG Delver that I always thought that this was how these colors want to be played. Cheap counterspells protecting an aggressive deck.
So I've messed around wth bug off and on for a year or two. I sleeved up a deck expecting to go (at best) x-2 at a local tourni and just have fun. Ended up going 5-0 with this pile of sultai cards, which though exciting, should never have happened haha.
2 clique
3 countersquall
2 kitchen finks
1 pulse of murasa
1 go for the throat
1 to the slaughter
1 ee
1 abrupt decay
1 damnation
1 painful truths
1 Golgari charm
Matches were
Grixis delver 2-1
Game one sucks cuz you have *****ty pushes and decays in your deck and their game plan is to smack you with delve threats. Games two and three come down to having removal for delve threats and keeping them off black mana with spreading seas (if they snare these you ultimately don't care as that's another snare not aimed at goyf or scooze or snap). I sided out all the fatal push, but kept two abrupt decay main deck just out of respect for delver and young pyromancer. 2 dismember and gonfor the throat are the MVP kill spells in this matchup.
Infect 2-0
Pretty easy, kill their dudes then smack them in the face with Goyf. I a tually kept some seas in the sideboard games as answers to inkmoth nexus.
Slivers 2-1
Interesting merfolk cousin, but ultimately comes down to killing the dudes that matter then smacking them in the face with big dudes. board out mana leaks for countersquall as they play cavern and Aether vial,so all their dudes are uncounterable , but collected company is how they gain velocity so having a clean answer for that in countersquall is pretty awesome.
Rug moon 2-0
Pretty easy matchup as we have main deck answers to their best mid range cards (goyf and moon) while their removal (burn based) lines up horribly against our threats. Spreading seas also can give your more islands or keep them off their green spells. I theoretically had tons of amazing cards in the sideboard, but decided to sideboard very conservatively. Only brought in two finks and the decay. Quite possibly should have brought in countersquall but the maindeck was already good against them.
Jund 2-1
Game one was generally pretty terrible, as our counterspells don't line up with their discard spells. Boarded out all counters and three spreading seas and brought in to he slaughter, both cliques, both finks, the ee, the painful truths, and damnAtion and go for the throat. Eventually just out jund-ed him by winning top deck wars the rest of the match. Painful truths, Jace aot, and pulse of murasa were all stars in games two and three.
Can anyone explain this list to me? I mean, it's Sultai Delirium. I get it... but some of these choices are just too wild. Architects? Just another delirium enabler? No Snaps? Emrakul?? My head hurts
The list is closer to a value chord deck in style. I personally would rather snap over jace but I guess when you have 4 traverse he may be better. Honestly you could fit a couple in there. Snap doesn't have a lot of great targets though. I cannot speak to how good the list actually is. I love the emrakul, I'm sure she ended many of his games. I wish there were thought scours in there somewhere as emrakul is still a very late game play. Deck kind of screams for flayer too but what can you do.
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It looks like he's relying on Jace instead of Snapcaster because it's an extra way to get card types in the yard through his loot ability. I used to do that with Jace and Bitterblossom if BB was useless in the matchup or just a redundant copy.
I'm guessing with Architects he likes the idea that it replaces itself while fueling delirium? It's also flexible in the sense that he can cycle opponents EOT if he's holding up mana? I'm wondering if it should be replaced with just another target for Traverse.
It looks like he's relying on Jace instead of Snapcaster because it's an extra way to get card types in the yard through his loot ability. I used to do that with Jace and Bitterblossom if BB was useless in the matchup or just a redundant copy.
I'm guessing with Architects he likes the idea that it replaces itself while fueling delirium? It's also flexible in the sense that he can cycle opponents EOT if he's holding up mana? I'm wondering if it should be replaced with just another target for Traverse.
What smoresnbacon said. The deck is super toolboxy and Jace allows him to filter away cards that aren't good in the matchup for ones that ideally are, while simultaneously fueling Delirium. Jace also offers an alternate win condition in a deck full of creatures that can clog up the battlefield if necessary. The other thing is the deck is heavy on sorceries while pretty light on instants which are better with Snapcaster Mage.
@Nickums AV is definitely powerful and can be worth running depending on meta imo. It has immense use as a midrange mirror-breaker but it also suffers from being a terrible topdeck. Basically, when it's good it's really good, but when it's bad it's awful. Some people find success with it, some people think it's too slow.
I agree with Argomok on AV – if you have a lot of midrange in your meta, I think it's a perfectly defensible card to run because it feels like we pull so far ahead or catch up when it resolves. My meta has a lot of Jund/Junk and it was an all-star.
This is where I've started. I'm hoping to make the trek to FNM later this week with it. I haven't had a chance to do much but goldfish at this point. Any advice is appreciated.
Tasigur is insane. But I didn't want to play Thought Scour to fuel it or risk shutting off Delirium and making my Grim Flayers 2/2s.
No Ancestral Visions
It's a great card for grinding advantage but it's often a dead draw later in the game. Last time I played FNM my meta was pretty much just aggro. I'm just not a fan.
Sideboard: Fog or Darkness
A fun card against infect or all-in creature based strategies. It can buy you some turns and burn through some of their pump spells.
Scavenging Ooze
Graveyard Hate and Life gain in one shiny little beater.
Modern: BG eldrazi midrange
BWG Abzan value evolution
BUG BUG Midrange
Tiny Leaders: BW Athreos Zombies
Commander: BG Gitrog Monster
This is very similar to the first list I built with Fatal Push actually. If you're going to dip into blue but want to stay base BGx this is the most effective way I've found. You're essentially a BG Delirium deck splashing blue for Thought Scour (instant speed Delirium enabler), Snapcaster Mages and some sideboard countermagic to make the blue worthwhile. Honestly if I didn't enjoy playing with Cryptic Command so much I would probably running something very similar to this.
Modern: BG eldrazi midrange
BWG Abzan value evolution
BUG BUG Midrange
Tiny Leaders: BW Athreos Zombies
Commander: BG Gitrog Monster
This is the one I have the best result.
7-0 on mtgo.
I've beat:
Grixis delver 2-0
Lantern control 2-0
RW burn 2-0
GW hatebear 2-0
Cherrios 2-0
Esper control 2-1
Goryo's Vengeance 2-0
Wasn't sure about manaleak but it gaves me games. I enjoyed it.
Stubborn is such an house in this deck. Has been the MVP against burn and grixis by far.
Just be prudent, if you own only 1 creature, even if you are able to play turn 2 tasigur/hooting..
sometimes it just better to wait at turn 3 to be able to protect it. I never tappedout.
With spellsnare, abrupt decay and maelstrom pulse, fighting ''rest in peace'' against hatebear hasnt been a problem at all.
Turn 2 end of turn abrupt decay rest in peace. My turn 3 though scour and play tasigur protected by stubborn denial. gg
And about my sb, yes I play 2x Baloth.. not bad against burn but playing it for jund.
I didnt fight jund yet with the deck but I have alot of respect for this deck (played it for 2 years)
I playtested AV alot and I'm not a fan.. When you finally draw the cards, it's most of time too late.
Happened often that I had 2 copies in top 10 cards... Could get some sb slots. Not sure if we really need it.
I would have like to find space for Vendillon clique (one of) to:
-See oponnent hand
-bait counterspell at the end of the oponent turn
-be able to draw the card scried on top with serum vision right now.
-be able to flash at the end of turn and finish a planewalker..
maybe I will try clique someday.
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Snapcaster mage
2 Tasigur, the golden fang
1 Hooting Mandrills
Instant(22)
4 Fatal push
4 Cryptic command
3 Thought scour
3 Stubborn denial
3 Abrupt decay
2 Spell snare
2 Mana leak
1 Go for the throat
4 Serum visions
1 Maelstrom pulse
Land(22)
4 Polluted delta
3 Misty rainforest
2 Verdant catacombs
2 Creeping Tar pit
3 Island
1 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Breeding pool
2 Watery grave
1 Overgrown tomb
1 Drowned Catacomb
2 Dispel
2 Negate
2 Damnation
2 Surgical extraction
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Night of soul's betrayal
1 Liliana, the last hope
1 Flaying Tendrils
1 Engineered explosives
1 Creeping corrosion
BGUSultai Shadow
BURGrixis Shadow
BGUSultai midrange
BRWMardu Pyromancer
BGRJund
I like the list. I have an unhealthy love for Stubborn Denial. When I was playing my Delver variant I actually ran 4/3 Thought Cast over Serum Visions just to help get those Delve fatties down faster and to turn on Stubborn quicker. Just something to consider. Also I personally haven't found Damnation to be necessary, and these builds are a little more creature heavy so it's somewhat counter-intuitive to what we're doing as well. Have you found it to be that necessary? I have actually been running two Bitterblossom in the side now to help fight Grixis Delver, Control Variants, and it's also can be very good versus Affinity. Far better than Tarmogoyf is in the matchup.
The deck is pretty good against others control deck. (Nahiri + Grixis)
Same against combo deck, we have good clock and infinite counter (even more post sb)
The only thing I'm affraid of is fast aggro decks like Merfolk, affinity and Eldrazi.
Sometimes the board become out of control and we need to stabilize.
Yes it kills your creature too but like I said, I try to have on board just 1-2 creature at a time and stay untap to protect it. You can also cryptic bounce your creature at the end of his turn.. before doing damnation.
I'm kinda new to sultai, played arround 200 games in the last 2 weeks on mtgo.
Still testing but I like what I'm playing
BGUSultai Shadow
BURGrixis Shadow
BGUSultai midrange
BRWMardu Pyromancer
BGRJund
4 tarmogoyf
4 snapcaster mage
2 hooting mandrills
2 tasigur, the golden fang
spells
4 serum visions
4 thought scour
2 spell snare
2 stubborn denial
4 cryptic command
4 fatal push
3 abrupt decay
1 maelstrom pulse
1 collective brutality
3 darkslick shores
2 creeping tar pit
2 breeding pool
1 watery grave
1 overgrown tomb
1 forest
1 swamp
3 island
2 verdant catacombs
4 polluted delta
3 misty rainforest
2 countersquall
1 disdainful stroke
1 dispel
4 spreading seas
2 surgical extraction
1 engineered explosives
1 pithing needle
1 liliana, the last hope
1 jace, architect of thought
1 damnation
I'm not going to go too indepth in each match. I played against jund, bant eternal command, GW tron and GR tron. For reference, The last 4+ weeks I have been on sultai midrange, jund style deck and loved it. I had 4 top 8s in a row, one being a top 4. I just picked up cryptics and decided to give it a whirl. I went 0-4. Infact, I didn't even win a game. Not a single one. That hasn't happened to me in like 10+ years. I'm not 100% sure why. I didn't make any glaring mistakes although I'm sure my play wasn't super tight as I don't normally play counterspells. What the deck felt like was it just didn't do much. Sure I got to counter some spells but nothing seemed to line up right. I got flooded out a lot late game, didn't have enough threats or didn't have the counters I needed. It's hard to go 0-8 in games and not blame the deck though. I got out valued hard by bant command, he just always had counters to trump mine and got to use like infinity paths. Jund was jund and tron was tron. The lack of seas as I said was a real problem as I basically always lost to ugin's sanctum. my board was just eh vs tron. I think I'll give this build another run just to see but I'm not super impressed honestly. It's possible it was just a fluke week so I'm not going to rule that out.
Modern: BG eldrazi midrange
BWG Abzan value evolution
BUG BUG Midrange
Tiny Leaders: BW Athreos Zombies
Commander: BG Gitrog Monster
Also I find this deck still can easily get stuck in the midrange trap of having the wrong cards in hand since the creatures tend to be proactive and the rest of the deck reactive. This is less of an issue than with the Grixis versions where almost all of their proactive cards (Lightning Bolt, Kolaghan's Command, Snapcaster Mage) are also reactive, save the Tasigur's. I'm not done with the deck, but I am trying out some other Sutlai brews for a bit. I went 3-2 in a league with an untested Sultai Death's Shadow brew heavy on hand disruption and running the full playset of Stubborn Denial backed up with 4 Death's Shadow, 4 Tarmogoyf and 4 Grim Flayer, and while I think that deck is a long way from ready it reminded me of how when I played BUG Delver that I always thought that this was how these colors want to be played. Cheap counterspells protecting an aggressive deck.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/569532#online
4 goyf
3 snap
2 tasigur
2 scooze
1 grim flayer
4 serum visions
4 fatal push
2 decay
2 dismember
1 maelstrom pulse
1 pulse of murasa
3 leak
3 snare
4 spreading seas
1 Jace, architect of thought
3 lumbering falls
1 tar pit
4 delta
2 misty
2 verdant
2 breeding pool
1 watery grave
1 overgrown tomb
2 botanical sanctum
1 darkalick shorea
2 island
1 forest
1 swamp
Sideboard
2 clique
3 countersquall
2 kitchen finks
1 pulse of murasa
1 go for the throat
1 to the slaughter
1 ee
1 abrupt decay
1 damnation
1 painful truths
1 Golgari charm
Matches were
Grixis delver 2-1
Game one sucks cuz you have *****ty pushes and decays in your deck and their game plan is to smack you with delve threats. Games two and three come down to having removal for delve threats and keeping them off black mana with spreading seas (if they snare these you ultimately don't care as that's another snare not aimed at goyf or scooze or snap). I sided out all the fatal push, but kept two abrupt decay main deck just out of respect for delver and young pyromancer. 2 dismember and gonfor the throat are the MVP kill spells in this matchup.
Infect 2-0
Pretty easy, kill their dudes then smack them in the face with Goyf. I a tually kept some seas in the sideboard games as answers to inkmoth nexus.
Slivers 2-1
Interesting merfolk cousin, but ultimately comes down to killing the dudes that matter then smacking them in the face with big dudes. board out mana leaks for countersquall as they play cavern and Aether vial,so all their dudes are uncounterable , but collected company is how they gain velocity so having a clean answer for that in countersquall is pretty awesome.
Rug moon 2-0
Pretty easy matchup as we have main deck answers to their best mid range cards (goyf and moon) while their removal (burn based) lines up horribly against our threats. Spreading seas also can give your more islands or keep them off their green spells. I theoretically had tons of amazing cards in the sideboard, but decided to sideboard very conservatively. Only brought in two finks and the decay. Quite possibly should have brought in countersquall but the maindeck was already good against them.
Jund 2-1
Game one was generally pretty terrible, as our counterspells don't line up with their discard spells. Boarded out all counters and three spreading seas and brought in to he slaughter, both cliques, both finks, the ee, the painful truths, and damnAtion and go for the throat. Eventually just out jund-ed him by winning top deck wars the rest of the match. Painful truths, Jace aot, and pulse of murasa were all stars in games two and three.
Deck was a lot of fun to play.
Can anyone explain this list to me? I mean, it's Sultai Delirium. I get it... but some of these choices are just too wild. Architects? Just another delirium enabler? No Snaps? Emrakul?? My head hurts
Draft My Cube!
Modern: BG eldrazi midrange
BWG Abzan value evolution
BUG BUG Midrange
Tiny Leaders: BW Athreos Zombies
Commander: BG Gitrog Monster
I'm guessing with Architects he likes the idea that it replaces itself while fueling delirium? It's also flexible in the sense that he can cycle opponents EOT if he's holding up mana? I'm wondering if it should be replaced with just another target for Traverse.
WUB Puresteel Midrange WUB
What smoresnbacon said. The deck is super toolboxy and Jace allows him to filter away cards that aren't good in the matchup for ones that ideally are, while simultaneously fueling Delirium. Jace also offers an alternate win condition in a deck full of creatures that can clog up the battlefield if necessary. The other thing is the deck is heavy on sorceries while pretty light on instants which are better with Snapcaster Mage.
WUB Puresteel Midrange WUB
Draft My Cube!
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Grim Flayer
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Vendilion Clique
Sorceries: 12
4 Serum Visions
1 Collective Brutality
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
Instants: 11
4 Fatal Push
2 Cryptic Command
2 Mana Leak
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Murderous Cut
3 Liliana of the Veil
Lands: 22
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
3 Darkslick Shores
1 Breeding Pool
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Watery Grave
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Island
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Lumbering Falls
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Dispel
1 Negate
1 Fog
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Nature's Claim
1 Damnation
3 Spreading Seas
1 Surgical Extraction
This is where I've started. I'm hoping to make the trek to FNM later this week with it. I haven't had a chance to do much but goldfish at this point. Any advice is appreciated.
As for my card choices:
No Tasigur, the Golden Fang?
Tasigur is insane. But I didn't want to play Thought Scour to fuel it or risk shutting off Delirium and making my Grim Flayers 2/2s.
No Ancestral Visions
It's a great card for grinding advantage but it's often a dead draw later in the game. Last time I played FNM my meta was pretty much just aggro. I'm just not a fan.
Vendilion Clique
Instant speed discard with 3 power? <3.
Four counterspells?!
I was trying to be proactive with Liliana of the Veil, Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek, and Collective Brutality to disrupt my opponent's plans. I probably need to find room for 2 Spell Snares and another Mana Leak.
Sideboard:
Fog or Darkness
A fun card against infect or all-in creature based strategies. It can buy you some turns and burn through some of their pump spells.
Scavenging Ooze
Graveyard Hate and Life gain in one shiny little beater.
Surgical Extraction
More graveyard hate!
Spreading Seas
Tron is tron. Don't get caught without someway to mitigate turn three Karn Liberated.
Dispel & Negate
Extra counterspells are always nice. I was shocked to find I don't own a single Countersquall.
Creeping Corrosion
For Affinity and Lantern control.
Damnation
Creature based strategies like Bant Eldrazi.
Engineered Explosives
Each Non-land permanent. I should probably just put it in the main deck. It's a catch-all answer at CMC 3 or less.
Nature's Claim
Did I mention Affinity and Lantern Control? What about Boggles? Or the random Worship that one five color guy plays at FNM.
Mindbreak Trap
Is Cheerios real? I don't know.
—Barrin, Principia
Now trading on deckbox.org as well.