Well its a lot higher 2 drop count than one would think, and no Serum Visions to smooth out the draw. 8 Mana Guys gives me something like 65-70% chance to start with one. Not sure, its about the same land count as I run in my Twin decks but missing 4 Serum, 2 Electrolyze, 1 Desolate Lighthouse so I want to be sure I dont get screwed if I want to keep mana up. Commune should be good there, but I didnt have a chance to test last night. I'll play around some and see how things go.
EDIT: Something for the all in folks to consider as well, Mizzium Skin
I have been looking for Mangara of Corondor's home for a long time (Thousand-Year Elixir anyone??) and this may be it, providing our desired interaction without diluting company.
T1: Dork
T2: Mangara
T3: Coralhelm + play fetch = tap + untap + tap = exile 2 permanents. (thanks to Xanian for pointing out we can't get 3 exile unless we can play fetch in response to tap)
I'm playing the deck as a primary win condition of exalted beats, mixed with the value package of company + ewit and voice, and incidental combo.
Notes:
I realise Kira is a non-bo with Coralhelm but it's actually fine since you just have to waste one fetch activation (so you miss out on a tap creature trigger with Knight or exile permanent with Mangara essentially). Outside of that, it provides you much needed protection.
Unsure of the exalted gameplan, feels bad trying to improve voice and geist so forcefully. However, I feel with the rise of affinity added with the fact that it will probably be our worst game 1 matchup, qasali pridemages may be worthy.
I've been having a blast playing Abzan company exclusively for the last couple of months and I'm tempted to jump ship to this.
T1: Dork
T2: Mangara
T3: Coralhelm + play fetch = tap + untap + tap + untap + tap = exile 3 permanents.
I don't believe that works. For that to work, you'd need to play the Windswept and activate his ability before the landfall trigger goes on the stack, which cannot be done. With a Windswept you can get 2 exiles out of it, but that's it.
So I think Amulet-Bloom shoehorns quite nicely into this list, as follows:
Turn 1: Dork
Turn 2: Retreat to Coralhelm
Turn 3: Tap dork (1 floating). Play fetch, untap dork, tap dork (2 floating). Break fetch, get a land, untap dork, tap dork (3 floating). Tap three lands, play Titan. Grab two more lands. One of those lands is a fetchland and one is Slayers' Stronghold. Untap dork when fetchland EtB. Tap dork (1 floating). Slayers' Stronghold EtBs, untap dork, tap dork (2 floating). Break fetchland, untap dork, tap dork (3 floating). Activate Slayer's Stronghold (1 floating). Swing with Titan. Grab a fetchland and Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion. Untap dork when fetchland EtB, tap dork (2 floating). Untap dork when Sunhome EtB, tap dork (3 floating). Break fetch, get a land, untap dork, tap dork (4 floating). Activate Sunhome. Swing for 16 with Prime Time.
That's not GG, but it's strong. Now, I acknowledge that 8 dorks (9 if you count Arbor) and 4 Primeval Titans is a lot. Probably too many. But for testing purposes, it's what I want. (This is also why I must play 2 Stomping Ground. You need double red to active both Sunhome and Slayers' Stronghold in the same turn with a Noble Hierarch in play.)
Now, for part 2: Why I'm not playing Collected Company.
Collected Company is good. Really good. I've been on the bandwagon since day 1. I really hoped Abzan Company would break modern. It didn't. That's OK. However, to play CC here is something I (at least initially) want to stay away from. First off, it would mean dumping the Primeval Titan / Dork / Retreat combo, which is a nice plan B to the Knight combo (Plan C is beating face with Knight / Goyf / Prime Time). Secondly, I don't see many great target for CC, aside from Knight himself. Why would we want to get Smiter or Eternal Witness or Aven Mindcensor, here? Do they further our plan? Sure, they're threats, and they're powerful, but they're just a different plan. It could turn out that this deck is strongest going in on the CC plan, playing less Retreats and having this combo as more of a backup -- which is the way Abzan Company plays its Melira combo, for instance. However, I'm not inclined to take that path just yet, because 1) Retreat has anti-synergy with CC, and 2) Melira Company already exists, and it's not quite good enough. We already have a strong back-up plan for this combo: beat face with Goyf. That's good enough. Plus, Goyf and CC have never been good friends, and I want to play Goyf here.
That's enough for that tirade. It may prove that CC is the way to go. For now, I want to test other ideas.
Here are some other ideas, in that vein. These are all lands that should go in the deck, I think, or in the SB. But I don't know what to cut yet, and I want to test with a safe number of Plains and Forests for Knight before I start cutting them:
Ghost Quarter / Tectonic Edge: We need something against Tron and Bloom, and plus these cards are just randomly useful. I want at least some number of GQs in the SB, maybe 1 main. I'm undecided about Tech Edge.
Bojuka Bog: Anti storm or anything else that cares about the grave. 1 in the SB, for sure.
Sejiri Steppe: Clearly this should be a one-of, probably MD but maybe in the SB. The question is just whether to cut a forest or Temple Garden. For that, I need to test.
Kessig Wolf Run: it's good. Obviously. Better in a vacuum with just KotR than Sunhome is. However, it's worse when comboing. It doesn't' work with Prime Time. But, aside from that, it's also worse, because it requires you to fetch way more lands with KotR and take way more damage. With Sumhome, you can do the following:
Activate Knight, sac a forest or plains land (Knight 3/3).
Get a fetch, untap knight.
Break fetch, get a forest (-1 life; Knight 4/4). Tap down an opponent's dude.
Tap forest. G floating.
Activate knight, saccing the forest (Knight 5/5).
Get a fetch, untapping knight.
Break fetch, getting a forest (-2 life; Knight 6/6). Tap down an opponent's dude.
Tap forest. GG floating.
Activate knight, saccing the forest (Knight 7/7).
Get a fetch, untapping knight.
Break fetch, getting a plains (-3 life; Knight an 8/8). Tap down an opponent's dude.
Get Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion. Untap knight.
Activate Sunhome. 0 floating.
Swing for the win with all blockers tapped down.
That's only 5 life lost. With Kessig, I know you take way more, and need to run even more Forests / Plains to ensure 20 to the dome. As I've demonstrated here, trample is irrelevant when comboing.
There are probably many, many, more...
I also wonder about playing Commune with the Gods. It obviously has a lot of synergy, but wasting your second turn to dig for a Knight or Retreat isn't exactly where you want to be. Retreat is the only card in this deck that does not have immediate impact when in enters the battlefield, but, with the right build, it should just win the game.
On Voice of Resurgence vs. Goyf: If I was playing CoCo, I'd play Voice. I'm not.
Those are my thoughts so far. I can't wait till Retreat becomes usable on Cockatrice so I can test.
Anyone have any thoughts on all of this?
Edit: @isei8388: Mangara is genius in this deck! That makes CoCo more appealing. I want to test it at least in the Sideboard.
My take:
Turn 1: Dork
Turn 2: Retreat to Coralhelm
Turn 3: Tap dork (1 floating). Play fetch, untap dork, tap dork (2 floating). Break fetch, get a land, untap dork, tap dork (3 floating). Tap three lands, play Titan. Grab two more lands. One of those lands is a fetchland and one is Slayers' Stronghold. Untap dork when fetchland EtB. Tap dork (1 floating). Slayers' Stronghold EtBs, untap dork, tap dork (2 floating). Break fetchland, untap dork, tap dork (3 floating). Activate Slayer's Stronghold (1 floating). Swing with Titan. Grab a fetchland and Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion. Untap dork when fetchland EtB, tap dork (2 floating). Untap dork when Sunhome EtB, tap dork (3 floating). Break fetch, get a land, untap dork, tap dork (4 floating). Activate Sunhome. Swing for 16 with Prime Time.
Lands that ETB from Primeval Titan triggers come into play tapped so yeah that doesn't work.
I wanted to make a list of cards that may be interesting in this deck, for reference. Not sure if this will be helpful, but since my gears are already turning...
I think this deck has more potential than the twin combo because it's individual pieces are much better on their own and there isn't the same blowout potential when one piece is killed if you go for it. Knight was modern playable before RtC was printed. RtC turns any land into a scry or a tap/untap. It can filter through your deck, play defense with fetches, tap blockers etc. Twin is ulplayable other than on a combo piece or snapcaster. Collected Company gives the deck an eot I win aspect Similar to Twin as well as card advantage.
If your plan is to ramp into titan, why would you not just play bloom titan? It's way faster and much more consistent.
I would rather play emrakul and an eye of ugin if I was trying to ramp up, because that's better than titan in this strategy.
The reason I love the knight + retreat combo is that the deck can just be a proactive bant company deck that can randomly kill someone by comboing off or by just tapping their blockers and getting in with geist/knight/smiter.
Naw, I don't like how expensive Order is to activate. If we're going CoCo I like the lists that have been playing 2-3 Retreat, 4 CoCo, and some number of Paths. Then 4 Knight, X EWitness, Voice, Pridemage, Scooze, Dorks. Ewitness is great with CoCo, as we all know. Whiteclay is only good with Knight.
That said, I think the synergy is still sort of lacking between CoCo and Retreat. And then, if we run removal on top of CoCo and Retreat, we probably don't have room to play Chord of Calling. I'm not sure what the right move is...
Naw, I don't like how expensive Order is to activate. If we're going CoCo I like the lists that have been playing 2-3 Retreat, 4 CoCo, and some number of Paths. Then 4 Knight, X EWitness, Voice, Pridemage, Scooze, Dorks. Ewitness is great with CoCo, as we all know. Whiteclay is only good with Knight.
That said, I think the synergy is still sort of lacking between CoCo and Retreat. And then, if we run removal on top of CoCo and Retreat, we probably don't have room to play Chord of Calling. I'm not sure what the right move is...
If your plan is to ramp into titan, why would you not just play bloom titan? It's way faster and much more consistent.
I would rather play emrakul and an eye of ugin if I was trying to ramp up, because that's better than titan in this strategy.
The reason I love the knight + retreat combo is that the deck can just be a proactive bant company deck that can randomly kill someone by comboing off or by just tapping their blockers and getting in with geist/knight/smiter.
If you read my post, you'd see I was advocating playing Titan alongside Knight as an alternative win-con. However, as isei3883 pointed out, it doesn't even work. So we can forget that.
Naw, I don't like how expensive Order is to activate. If we're going CoCo I like the lists that have been playing 2-3 Retreat, 4 CoCo, and some number of Paths. Then 4 Knight, X EWitness, Voice, Pridemage, Scooze, Dorks. Ewitness is great with CoCo, as we all know. Whiteclay is only good with Knight.
That said, I think the synergy is still sort of lacking between CoCo and Retreat. And then, if we run removal on top of CoCo and Retreat, we probably don't have room to play Chord of Calling. I'm not sure what the right move is...
EDIT: Something for the all in folks to consider as well, Mizzium Skin
Spirits
3x Breeding Pool
1x Eiganjo Castle
4x Flooded Strand
1x Forest
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Misty Rainforest
1x Plains
1x Sejiri Steppe
3x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
Creature (30)
2x Birds of Paradise
2x Eternal Witness
3x Geist of Saint Traft
2x Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Mangara of Corondor
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Qasali Pridemage
1x Spellskite
4x Voice of Resurgence
4x Collected Company
Enchantment (4)
4x Retreat to Coralhelm
2x Burrenton Forge-Tender
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
3x Loxodon Smiter
3x Meddling Mage
2x Path to Exile
2x Stony Silence
2x Ulvenwald Tracker
I have been looking for Mangara of Corondor's home for a long time (Thousand-Year Elixir anyone??) and this may be it, providing our desired interaction without diluting company.
T1: Dork
T2: Mangara
T3: Coralhelm + play fetch = tap + untap + tap = exile 2 permanents. (thanks to Xanian for pointing out we can't get 3 exile unless we can play fetch in response to tap)
I'm playing the deck as a primary win condition of exalted beats, mixed with the value package of company + ewit and voice, and incidental combo.
Notes:
I realise Kira is a non-bo with Coralhelm but it's actually fine since you just have to waste one fetch activation (so you miss out on a tap creature trigger with Knight or exile permanent with Mangara essentially). Outside of that, it provides you much needed protection.
Unsure of the exalted gameplan, feels bad trying to improve voice and geist so forcefully. However, I feel with the rise of affinity added with the fact that it will probably be our worst game 1 matchup, qasali pridemages may be worthy.
I've been having a blast playing Abzan company exclusively for the last couple of months and I'm tempted to jump ship to this.
I don't believe that works. For that to work, you'd need to play the Windswept and activate his ability before the landfall trigger goes on the stack, which cannot be done. With a Windswept you can get 2 exiles out of it, but that's it.
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Primeval Titan
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Scavenging Ooze
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Path to Exile
4 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Temple Garden
2 Stomping Ground
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
1 Slayers' Stronghold
So I think Amulet-Bloom shoehorns quite nicely into this list, as follows:
Now, for part 2: Why I'm not playing Collected Company.
Collected Company is good. Really good. I've been on the bandwagon since day 1. I really hoped Abzan Company would break modern. It didn't. That's OK. However, to play CC here is something I (at least initially) want to stay away from. First off, it would mean dumping the Primeval Titan / Dork / Retreat combo, which is a nice plan B to the Knight combo (Plan C is beating face with Knight / Goyf / Prime Time). Secondly, I don't see many great target for CC, aside from Knight himself. Why would we want to get Smiter or Eternal Witness or Aven Mindcensor, here? Do they further our plan? Sure, they're threats, and they're powerful, but they're just a different plan. It could turn out that this deck is strongest going in on the CC plan, playing less Retreats and having this combo as more of a backup -- which is the way Abzan Company plays its Melira combo, for instance. However, I'm not inclined to take that path just yet, because 1) Retreat has anti-synergy with CC, and 2) Melira Company already exists, and it's not quite good enough. We already have a strong back-up plan for this combo: beat face with Goyf. That's good enough. Plus, Goyf and CC have never been good friends, and I want to play Goyf here.
That's enough for that tirade. It may prove that CC is the way to go. For now, I want to test other ideas.
Here are some other ideas, in that vein. These are all lands that should go in the deck, I think, or in the SB. But I don't know what to cut yet, and I want to test with a safe number of Plains and Forests for Knight before I start cutting them:
I also wonder about playing Commune with the Gods. It obviously has a lot of synergy, but wasting your second turn to dig for a Knight or Retreat isn't exactly where you want to be. Retreat is the only card in this deck that does not have immediate impact when in enters the battlefield, but, with the right build, it should just win the game.
On Voice of Resurgence vs. Goyf: If I was playing CoCo, I'd play Voice. I'm not.
Those are my thoughts so far. I can't wait till Retreat becomes usable on Cockatrice so I can test.
Anyone have any thoughts on all of this?
Edit: @isei8388: Mangara is genius in this deck! That makes CoCo more appealing. I want to test it at least in the Sideboard.
With Knight, it would be exile 4 but that's a 3 card combo.
Lands that ETB from Primeval Titan triggers come into play tapped so yeah that doesn't work.
Let's keep expanding this list, and maybe add it to the premier in a spoiler box? Just for practical use.
It may be a replacement for Ewit or supplement it but we may be venturing too far into value-town.
Also, I am 99% sure Mangara of Corondor belongs in this deck because it's still fine on it's own and broken with Coralhelm(s). It's like Knight's 5-8.
Modern: UW Spirits
I would rather play emrakul and an eye of ugin if I was trying to ramp up, because that's better than titan in this strategy.
The reason I love the knight + retreat combo is that the deck can just be a proactive bant company deck that can randomly kill someone by comboing off or by just tapping their blockers and getting in with geist/knight/smiter.
That said, I think the synergy is still sort of lacking between CoCo and Retreat. And then, if we run removal on top of CoCo and Retreat, we probably don't have room to play Chord of Calling. I'm not sure what the right move is...
Mangara of Corondor over Instant/Sorcery removal imo.
If you read my post, you'd see I was advocating playing Titan alongside Knight as an alternative win-con. However, as isei3883 pointed out, it doesn't even work. So we can forget that.
Agree. 1-2 Mangaras, 4 Knights. X Chord. We should still play some number of Paths because Mangara is inefficient to bad without Retreat in play.
1 Mangara of Corondor
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Birds of Paradise
4 Voice of Resurgence
2 Eternal Witness
1 Spellskite
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Wall of Roots
2 Loxodon Smiter
3 Collected Company
2 Path to Exile
2 Chord of Calling
That leaves a lot of open slots. (It's only 32 cards). But I think it's a good start.
~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon
Good point. All the more reason to play some number of Path.
I'm also way too used to having some Burn, the lack of reach really hurts. :]
Spirits