How does Jace "solve the answers aligning with threats problem"? Find it hard to stick him on the board. And how about Shalai, Voice of Plenty in this deck?
Jace is not only card advantage, he's also card selection. With so many ways of shuffling our library, we can draw 3 and shuffle away what we don't want each turn. In other words, Jace helps you find the cards that are relevant in order to answer a specific problem.
Anyone know list Kelvin Chew is playing these days?
This is what he sent me after GP Sydney where his personal record was 6-1-1 but I believe his team failed to Day 2. He'd also mentioned he'd gone 6-2 in Kyoto prior but not sure if this is the exact same list.
Interesting list. Some points I'd like to discuss:
1) Jace started as a 3-of, now it's just a 1-of. I never liked too many Jaces/Nissas, it felt like we were going off our route too much.
2) I'm not sure I'm ok with 3 lands that only generate colorless (Ghost Quarter, Field of Ruin and Gavony Township). I would probably play one of the land destruction spells on the sideboard and exchange it with something like gavony township when bringing it in. We need so much colored mana to cast voice/reliquary/queller/Jace, and some hands can be very awkward with all 3 lands main deck.
3) Is Eternal Witness better than Courser of Kruphix right now? Besides the obvious interaction with Knight of The Reliquary and Tireless Tracker, Courser is a lifegain source, a nice blocker and card advantage source. I really like Eternal Witness as a card (used to play 4 when playing abzan company), but i can't see her beeing as useful here.
4) No Qasali Pridemage. I'm quite reluctant on not playing Qasali Pridemage. I have one over the second Meddling Mage, and the reasons are the same: Both of them can be grizzly bears sometimes, but they also can be useful.
Lands:
Windswept Heath x 4
Misty Rainforest x 4
Breeding Pool x 1
Hallowed Fountain x 1
Temple Garden x 1
Stomping Ground x 1
Horizon Canopy x 1
Gavony Township x 1
Kessig Wolf Run x 1
Ghost Quarter x 1
Plains x 2
Forest x 4
Creatures:
Noble Hierarch x 4
Birds of Paradise x 4
Knight of the Reliquary x 4
Spell Queller x 4
Tireless Tracker x 4
Eternal Witness x 2
Voice of Resurgence x 4
Scavenging Ooze x 1
Qasali Pridemage x 1
Spells:
Path to Exile x 4
Collected Company x 4
Retreat to Coralhelm x 3
Sideboard:
Izzet Staticaster x 2
Kitchen Finks x 2
Reflector Mage x 2
Damping Sphere x 2
Worship x 2
Negate x 2
Unified Will x 2
Bojuka Bog x 1
I have been investing a lot of my time into Retreat to Coralhelm builds and this has felt very solid, especially from a deck building perspective.
Post-banning, I believe there are really only 2 builds of MIDRANGE builds of Knightfall, Retreat or Jace (straight up CoCo just seems so bad). If you're going to build Knightfall, you want to either emphasize on the Combo, or completely relinquish variance associated with CoCo with Jace.
By playing higher numbers of Retreats, your inclined to play a much grindier, higher value assortment of creatures that can accrue card advantage; you don't want more duds like Aven Mindcensor and Reflector Mage MB when you have a bunch of Retreats that are quite dead without Knight.
On the flip side, you're encouraged to play a wider array of disruptive, high impact cards LIKE Reflector/Meddling Mage, Aven Mindcensor, and especially Courser of Kruphix when you're playing JTMS. You don't need so many hard grind CA cards when Jace does all of that for you (especially when you can set up the top of your deck with JTMS for CoCo). More so, you want more disruptive creatures that help shape and defend Jace from all the silliness in modern espeically since you don't have Retreat to Coralhelm to win instantly.
Obviously you can choose to make a blend of both (do whatever you like) because Knightfall is SOOOOOOOOO flexible in it's builds but I think this primer needs a solid base operation for building this deck.
If you're playing Retreat then you want more cards within your deck that make Retreat good, as opposed to just having Knight of the Reliquary or bust. I found that while Courser has obvious synergies with Retreat, Eternal Witness is MUCH more powerful in Coralhelm builds because chaining CoCo's to find Knights or bring back Knights (or w.e. you like lol) to get your opponent dead is much higher impact as opposed to Courser + Coralhelm = play a land off the top -> Scry or tap/untap.
Tireless Tracker has always been SUPER awesome with Knight, but is absolutely ridiculous with Lotus Cobra. Every fetchland yields a free draw with the free mana from Cobra to crack a clue so drawing cards and dominating the board is much easier. Unfortunately Lotus Cobra sucks because it doesn't impact the board or actually accrue advantage except for allowing you more mana in the earlier turns. By having Retreat + Hierarch/BoP, you can build a pseudo Lotus Cobra, thereby giving extended purpose to the Retreat that can actually win the game aside from Knight (Fetchland = 2 Mana divination & +2/+2 Tracker).
I'm still in the wood works but these 3 changes (playing 3 Retreats, 3/4 Tireless Tracker, and exchanging Courser for Eternal Witness) has felt MUCH more powerful as opposed to previous builds including Retreat but not really having a direction, just a smattering of good stuff and a combo.
I haven't been working on Jace builds as of late, but I'm pretty sure the goal is to play a higher density of disruptive creatures and pull ahead with JTMS (interaction with CoCo).
As with the Sideboard, Damping Sphere has really changed the structure at which you build your board. We now have a card that puts in work against Tron AND Storm, which are in my opinion, some of the hardest MU's the deck had previously (albeit winnable) with Scapeshift at the top. I'm still unsure with how to build the SB in conjunction with the MB for the particular meta, but I think Damping Sphere has lightened the burden of our tight SB builds.
I'm still preferring the Vizier version, myself. Shalai adds another layer of protection, as well as another Win-Con for the Vizier combo, and I don't worry about Sphere out of the Board due to winning before my opponent's mana/combo becomes an issue a large portion of the time.
I'm still preferring the Vizier version, myself. Shalai adds another layer of protection, as well as another Win-Con for the Vizier combo, and I don't worry about Sphere out of the Board due to winning before my opponent's mana/combo becomes an issue a large portion of the time.
Have a list? I've been tweaking and toying with just the GW Version lately with Vizier/Druid + Knight/Tracker. Haven't gotten a chance to dive into Bant yet with Shalai.
I have been running the list below over playing GW valuetown or merfolks for a few months right now at FNM and when friends need to practice for events, while I have been too busy to attend them.
I'm hoping to go to an open soon around here with the list above. Posting it here to perhaps get a bit of critique on where I could improve. I haven't been able to test JTMS for myself yet in this list, but I haven't felt like I should switch so far due to earlier stated reasons of not attending enough big events to test them. Plus I quite enjoy the game 1 wins Retreat.
My most recent FNMs I went to went rather smoothly as well so I'm confident enough on it. I have the least experience vs Burn with the list. While I do have experience playing it myself, perhaps someone could give me some pointers and tips for the matchup.
Havn't played Knightfall a lot lately but I loved the way the deck could sometimes just funtion as a tempo deck with Spell Queller, in the early turns. Though it sucked when the opponent just passed the turn. Also the deck was sometimes lackluster in the removal department due to the CoCo nature of the deck.
With that in mind, how does everybody feel about Merfolk Trickster as a way to mitigate both situatons, while also being a good CoCo target in response to attacks next to Reflector Mage??
Double blue sucks, and reflector mage just seems better imo. I’d sooner replace reflector mage for meddling mage than merfolk trickster
I was not saying it should replace Reflector Mage. That card is key imho.
I'd probably drop something in the two drop slot. I agree, this will take away some of the utility, but makes the double blue less of a problem. I have found out that due to the varying nature of our spells' casting costs. The deck is allready very weak to Blood Moon and mana denying strategies. So these factors should mittigate the double blue somewhat. Besides, People are running Jace which is double blue.
Also, just passing turn on turn two, regardless of if our bird/hiërarch survives seems pretty nice, especially after sideboard in games when we need more countermagic.
Meddling Mage seems more of a sideboard card for Knightfall, as opposed to Humans where information about the deck/hand can be gained trough Kitesail Freebooter making it a very powerfull maindeck T3 play. Playing Meddling Mage blind in an open meta (FNM for instance) is pretty tricky.
Edit: With my old list as a base, I'd like to playtest something like this:
Hey guys, I'm currently testing and tweaking the modern-decks I play in preparation for GP Barcelona at the end of June. I started playing this Deck when the Knightfall-Combo came out ever since and currently, I'm feeling very frustrated when I play this deck. I'm not really sure what's wrong with it but since the unbannings, the deck feels kinda clunky (or maybe it's me not seeing enough lines of plays). Don't get me wrong, the flexibility of this deck is great, but BBE and Blood Moons are heavily played cards I think we're losing against (or just me).
After playing Counters Company a bit, I'm back at playing GW Valuetown. The Deck feels great and you can outgrind so many Decks, but it's my true love Knightfall I'd go with in Barcelona.
These were my 75 before I abandoned Knightfall. I slammed 2 JTMS for 1x Lotus Cobra & 1x Hierarch, because I prefered playing 7 instead of 8 dorks with 10 Fetchlands and although Lotus Cobra can be insane, i think it's a bad creature when you can't play it before T4 or T3. I also kicked 2x Nissa, Steward of Elements out of the Sideboard, because of the unbannings of JTMS. I also opted playing a second Breeding Pool instead of a Botanical Sanctum, mainly because of getting JTMS consitently on T3 or T4 and for an another saccable Land for KotR.
So after I played a MKM Trial at my LGS with Valuetown, I started to look back at Knightfall and try to fit the Combo in either a dedicated Combo or Control-Shell with no Companies or in a Value-Shell, so i started brewing a Control-Shell.
My first step for the non-Company Version was to see if there are any good payoff cards for having lots of mana except killing the Opponent on the Spot. I always tried to kill them when the Combo was online, but playing 10 Fetchland and 4/5 different Shocklands also means that the Lifetotals aren't high enough to kill them in the same turn and I always wanted to be sure that there's nothing in my way. I also looked at the Bant Control list form Guillaume Matignon to compare what we could add and Emrakul, the Promised End seems a really spicy one. I think Remand and Nissa, Steward of Elements are safe cards in the deck, since they can protect the Knight or even finish the Opponent. Further looking and with the addition of Dominaria I also added Teferi, Hero of Dominariainto the Shortlist of good Cards. Teferi really made some impressive showings beeing in the UW and Jeskai Control decks, even kicking out JTMS off their lists. So here is a very-very-very early Version of the Deck (I won't add a Sideboard in this Version, I definetly post a list with Sideboard when I figured the Deck out):
The Manabase could maybe differ from the normal Coco-List, with maybe an additional Field of Ruin/Ghost Quarter/Sejiri Steppe or even an additional Basic and also cut a Path or a JTMS for another Creature like Cobra or a second Clique.
It's a first-timer for me, I'm not really a brewer of decks, but if you have suggestions for this Deck, go ahead! I'm propably going to play this deck in my LGS's Modern Weekly. So excpect a report on thursday from me, cheers!
Edit: Earlier-Me is so dumb, he forgot to add Shalai into the 75. I'd definetly cut the Clique for her.
I've been playing Knightfall for about two years now. I always felt that there were too many 3 drops in the original Knightfall list, resulting in a need to recover tempo in the later stages of the game. Especially when the Bird/Hierarch gets pushed or bolted, one can end up losing a lot of tempo or get mana screwed and lose the game this way.
Also I felt that Path to Exile is not a good card in most of game 1's. I felt that having only 7 1 mana drops and the option to path an opposing Goblin Guide were not enough options on turn 1. Especially against opponents that do not interact early with your board, say Storm, Ad Nauseam or Dredge, I wondered what I could improve in the deckbuilding. Also I really disliked the Scavening Ooze plus Path to Exile interaction. What good is an Ooze when you can not sink your mana into it?
This led me to experimenting with Lightning Bolt and Wild Nacatl in a Knight of the Reliquary shell. Lightning Bolt, in contrast to Path to Exile, can go to the face and speed up your Plan B beat down up a turn. The only way I saw to smooth the mana requirements were to trim on cards that costUWx, namely the creature match up allstar Reflector Mage and the disruptive element Spell Queller. By losing Spell Queller we weaken our match up against combo a lot, but since we include a faster clock in the form of Wild Nacatl we can still snatch a win.
Opening up on red also means you can include Fiery Justice in your sideboard. This card feels really unfair when it connects with Humans or Counters Company. It can also be used against Death's Shadow decks, when played accordingly.
If you're on this route you may as well as go all the way and play big zoo over bant knightfall. You can even splash blue, but those lists are best placed in the zoo thread.
I'm gonna say some pretty heretical things, so please at least hear me out.
The deck has 2 major flaws:
1: Too many weak creatures
2: Mana flooding is very real.
I personally see Jace as the only reason to run this over GW at the present time, especially seeing as to how Retreat to Coralhelm sucks right now, and has sucked for a while. With that in mind, I think that the following is the list I'd run at FNM:
I'm gonna say some pretty heretical things, so please at least hear me out...
...Retreat to Coralhelm sucks right now, and has sucked for a while.
As someone who has been reading the thread sporadically (and hasn't built the deck yet), would you mind elaborating on this? I don't think your wrong, but I'm curious specifically what reasons make Coralhelm weak right now.
I'm gonna say some pretty heretical things, so please at least hear me out...
...Retreat to Coralhelm sucks right now, and has sucked for a while.
As someone who has been reading the thread sporadically (and hasn't built the deck yet), would you mind elaborating on this? I don't think your wrong, but I'm curious specifically what reasons make Coralhelm weak right now.
In the games I've played it's pretty lackluster, and often times I wished it were something else. With the rise of control and midrange, I don't think a 3 mana enchantment that doesn't affect the board is where you want to be.
I'm gonna say some pretty heretical things, so please at least hear me out.
The deck has 2 major flaws:
1: Too many weak creatures
2: Mana flooding is very real.
I haven't been playing with coralhelm for a while. I basically play a straight "bant value" deck, or bant company, or whatever you wanna call it. The reason I chose bant over any devoted/vizier combo is exactly because I think this combination gives us the strongest creatures. Voice, Reliquary, Tracker, Courser, Ooze, Queller, Jace, Clique, Reflector Mage, E. Witness, all of those are good value guys. We have most of GW company's value, with counter backup from SB, Jace, Nissa and a little main deck disruption (queller, meddling mage).
Also, I play 22 lands/8 dorks, and I suffer more from mana screw than mana flood.
It's not my first deck choice, but I believe it's the best Collected Company deck out there (or maybe elves?). It's simply not the best time for CoCo decks.
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Interesting list. Some points I'd like to discuss:
1) Jace started as a 3-of, now it's just a 1-of. I never liked too many Jaces/Nissas, it felt like we were going off our route too much.
2) I'm not sure I'm ok with 3 lands that only generate colorless (Ghost Quarter, Field of Ruin and Gavony Township). I would probably play one of the land destruction spells on the sideboard and exchange it with something like gavony township when bringing it in. We need so much colored mana to cast voice/reliquary/queller/Jace, and some hands can be very awkward with all 3 lands main deck.
3) Is Eternal Witness better than Courser of Kruphix right now? Besides the obvious interaction with Knight of The Reliquary and Tireless Tracker, Courser is a lifegain source, a nice blocker and card advantage source. I really like Eternal Witness as a card (used to play 4 when playing abzan company), but i can't see her beeing as useful here.
4) No Qasali Pridemage. I'm quite reluctant on not playing Qasali Pridemage. I have one over the second Meddling Mage, and the reasons are the same: Both of them can be grizzly bears sometimes, but they also can be useful.
Lands:
Windswept Heath x 4
Misty Rainforest x 4
Breeding Pool x 1
Hallowed Fountain x 1
Temple Garden x 1
Stomping Ground x 1
Horizon Canopy x 1
Gavony Township x 1
Kessig Wolf Run x 1
Ghost Quarter x 1
Plains x 2
Forest x 4
Creatures:
Noble Hierarch x 4
Birds of Paradise x 4
Knight of the Reliquary x 4
Spell Queller x 4
Tireless Tracker x 4
Eternal Witness x 2
Voice of Resurgence x 4
Scavenging Ooze x 1
Qasali Pridemage x 1
Spells:
Path to Exile x 4
Collected Company x 4
Retreat to Coralhelm x 3
Sideboard:
Izzet Staticaster x 2
Kitchen Finks x 2
Reflector Mage x 2
Damping Sphere x 2
Worship x 2
Negate x 2
Unified Will x 2
Bojuka Bog x 1
I have been investing a lot of my time into Retreat to Coralhelm builds and this has felt very solid, especially from a deck building perspective.
Post-banning, I believe there are really only 2 builds of MIDRANGE builds of Knightfall, Retreat or Jace (straight up CoCo just seems so bad). If you're going to build Knightfall, you want to either emphasize on the Combo, or completely relinquish variance associated with CoCo with Jace.
By playing higher numbers of Retreats, your inclined to play a much grindier, higher value assortment of creatures that can accrue card advantage; you don't want more duds like Aven Mindcensor and Reflector Mage MB when you have a bunch of Retreats that are quite dead without Knight.
On the flip side, you're encouraged to play a wider array of disruptive, high impact cards LIKE Reflector/Meddling Mage, Aven Mindcensor, and especially Courser of Kruphix when you're playing JTMS. You don't need so many hard grind CA cards when Jace does all of that for you (especially when you can set up the top of your deck with JTMS for CoCo). More so, you want more disruptive creatures that help shape and defend Jace from all the silliness in modern espeically since you don't have Retreat to Coralhelm to win instantly.
Obviously you can choose to make a blend of both (do whatever you like) because Knightfall is SOOOOOOOOO flexible in it's builds but I think this primer needs a solid base operation for building this deck.
If you're playing Retreat then you want more cards within your deck that make Retreat good, as opposed to just having Knight of the Reliquary or bust. I found that while Courser has obvious synergies with Retreat, Eternal Witness is MUCH more powerful in Coralhelm builds because chaining CoCo's to find Knights or bring back Knights (or w.e. you like lol) to get your opponent dead is much higher impact as opposed to Courser + Coralhelm = play a land off the top -> Scry or tap/untap.
Tireless Tracker has always been SUPER awesome with Knight, but is absolutely ridiculous with Lotus Cobra. Every fetchland yields a free draw with the free mana from Cobra to crack a clue so drawing cards and dominating the board is much easier. Unfortunately Lotus Cobra sucks because it doesn't impact the board or actually accrue advantage except for allowing you more mana in the earlier turns. By having Retreat + Hierarch/BoP, you can build a pseudo Lotus Cobra, thereby giving extended purpose to the Retreat that can actually win the game aside from Knight (Fetchland = 2 Mana divination & +2/+2 Tracker).
I'm still in the wood works but these 3 changes (playing 3 Retreats, 3/4 Tireless Tracker, and exchanging Courser for Eternal Witness) has felt MUCH more powerful as opposed to previous builds including Retreat but not really having a direction, just a smattering of good stuff and a combo.
I haven't been working on Jace builds as of late, but I'm pretty sure the goal is to play a higher density of disruptive creatures and pull ahead with JTMS (interaction with CoCo).
As with the Sideboard, Damping Sphere has really changed the structure at which you build your board. We now have a card that puts in work against Tron AND Storm, which are in my opinion, some of the hardest MU's the deck had previously (albeit winnable) with Scapeshift at the top. I'm still unsure with how to build the SB in conjunction with the MB for the particular meta, but I think Damping Sphere has lightened the burden of our tight SB builds.
Have a list? I've been tweaking and toying with just the GW Version lately with Vizier/Druid + Knight/Tracker. Haven't gotten a chance to dive into Bant yet with Shalai.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/20-03-18-bant-vizier/
Only one Vizier? How consistently are you comboing?
Went undefeated today at my LGS with this, wins over Merfolk, Ponza, Skirk Prospecter jank combo, and an ID with 5c zoo
4x Noble Hierarch
3x Voice of Resurgence
2x Selfless Spirit
2x Qasali Pridemage
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Spell Queller
2x Tireless Tracker
2x Vendilion Clique
1x Eternal Witness
4x Collected Company
3x Path to Exile
2x Temple Garden
1x Breeding Pool
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Windswept Heath
1x Flooded Strand
1x Gavony Township
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Sejiri Steppe
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Horizon Canopy
3x Forest
1x Island
1x Plains
2x Blessed Alliance
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
2x Kataki, War's Wage
3x Reflector Mage
1x Scavenging Ooze
3x Unified Will
2x Worship
Link to deck @ TappedOut.net
I'm hoping to go to an open soon around here with the list above. Posting it here to perhaps get a bit of critique on where I could improve. I haven't been able to test JTMS for myself yet in this list, but I haven't felt like I should switch so far due to earlier stated reasons of not attending enough big events to test them. Plus I quite enjoy the game 1 wins Retreat.
My most recent FNMs I went to went rather smoothly as well so I'm confident enough on it. I have the least experience vs Burn with the list. While I do have experience playing it myself, perhaps someone could give me some pointers and tips for the matchup.
WRG Boros/Naya Burn - U Merfolks - WUG GW Valuetown/Bant Knightfall - UR Young Pyromancer
Commander:
R Krenko, Mob Boss Combo - WG Nazhan, Revered Bladesmith Voltron - BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth Stax - UBG Tasigur Elfball - UBR Kess, Dissident Mage Tainted Twin
With that in mind, how does everybody feel about Merfolk Trickster as a way to mitigate both situatons, while also being a good CoCo target in response to attacks next to Reflector Mage??
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
I was not saying it should replace Reflector Mage. That card is key imho.
I'd probably drop something in the two drop slot. I agree, this will take away some of the utility, but makes the double blue less of a problem. I have found out that due to the varying nature of our spells' casting costs. The deck is allready very weak to Blood Moon and mana denying strategies. So these factors should mittigate the double blue somewhat. Besides, People are running Jace which is double blue.
Also, just passing turn on turn two, regardless of if our bird/hiërarch survives seems pretty nice, especially after sideboard in games when we need more countermagic.
Meddling Mage seems more of a sideboard card for Knightfall, as opposed to Humans where information about the deck/hand can be gained trough Kitesail Freebooter making it a very powerfull maindeck T3 play. Playing Meddling Mage blind in an open meta (FNM for instance) is pretty tricky.
Edit: With my old list as a base, I'd like to playtest something like this:
3 Forest
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Botanical Sanctum
1 Breeding Pool
1 Temple Garden
1 Stomping Ground
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Windswept Heath
3 Flooded Strand
Land, Utility
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Merfolk Trickster
2 Voice of Resurgence
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Reflector Mage
4 Spell Queller
1 Nimble Obstructionist
Non-Creature Spells
3 Path to Exile
3 Retreat to Coralhelm
4 Collected Company
2 Damping Sphere
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Stony Silence
2 Negate
2 Unified Will
2 Izzet Staticaster
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Nimble Obstructionist
1 Dusk // Dawn
Focussed more on combo, by dropping one path in favor of other removal options. Remand could probably be in the board instead (one/two) Unified Wills
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
After playing Counters Company a bit, I'm back at playing GW Valuetown. The Deck feels great and you can outgrind so many Decks, but it's my true love Knightfall I'd go with in Barcelona.
Here are some lists w/ some notes to the lists:
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Temple Garden
2 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Stomping Ground
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Gavony Township
4 Collected Company
4 Path to Exile
2 Return to Coralhelm
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Creatures
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Noble Hierarchs
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 Qasali Pridemage
3 Voice of Resurgence
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Spell Queller
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Courser of Kruphix
2 Unified Will
1 Negate
1 Worship
2 Stony Silence
1 Dusk//Dawn
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Eldritch Evolution
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Settle the Wreckage
These were my 75 before I abandoned Knightfall. I slammed 2 JTMS for 1x Lotus Cobra & 1x Hierarch, because I prefered playing 7 instead of 8 dorks with 10 Fetchlands and although Lotus Cobra can be insane, i think it's a bad creature when you can't play it before T4 or T3. I also kicked 2x Nissa, Steward of Elements out of the Sideboard, because of the unbannings of JTMS. I also opted playing a second Breeding Pool instead of a Botanical Sanctum, mainly because of getting JTMS consitently on T3 or T4 and for an another saccable Land for KotR.
So after I played a MKM Trial at my LGS with Valuetown, I started to look back at Knightfall and try to fit the Combo in either a dedicated Combo or Control-Shell with no Companies or in a Value-Shell, so i started brewing a Control-Shell.
My first step for the non-Company Version was to see if there are any good payoff cards for having lots of mana except killing the Opponent on the Spot. I always tried to kill them when the Combo was online, but playing 10 Fetchland and 4/5 different Shocklands also means that the Lifetotals aren't high enough to kill them in the same turn and I always wanted to be sure that there's nothing in my way. I also looked at the Bant Control list form Guillaume Matignon to compare what we could add and Emrakul, the Promised End seems a really spicy one. I think Remand and Nissa, Steward of Elements are safe cards in the deck, since they can protect the Knight or even finish the Opponent. Further looking and with the addition of Dominaria I also added Teferi, Hero of Dominariainto the Shortlist of good Cards. Teferi really made some impressive showings beeing in the UW and Jeskai Control decks, even kicking out JTMS off their lists. So here is a very-very-very early Version of the Deck (I won't add a Sideboard in this Version, I definetly post a list with Sideboard when I figured the Deck out):
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Temple Garden
2 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Stomping Ground
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Gavony Township
4 Path to Exile
3 Return to Coralhelm
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
2 Nissa, Steward of Elements
3 Remand
Creatures
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Lotus Cobra
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Courser of Kruphix
4 Spell Queller
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
1 Vendilion Clique
The Manabase could maybe differ from the normal Coco-List, with maybe an additional Field of Ruin/Ghost Quarter/Sejiri Steppe or even an additional Basic and also cut a Path or a JTMS for another Creature like Cobra or a second Clique.
It's a first-timer for me, I'm not really a brewer of decks, but if you have suggestions for this Deck, go ahead! I'm propably going to play this deck in my LGS's Modern Weekly. So excpect a report on thursday from me, cheers!
Edit: Earlier-Me is so dumb, he forgot to add Shalai into the 75. I'd definetly cut the Clique for her.
GWUKnightfall
WUSpirits
GWBCounters Company
Legacy:
WBGR Aggro Loam
If you're on this route you may as well as go all the way and play big zoo over bant knightfall. You can even splash blue, but those lists are best placed in the zoo thread.
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The deck has 2 major flaws:
1: Too many weak creatures
2: Mana flooding is very real.
I personally see Jace as the only reason to run this over GW at the present time, especially seeing as to how Retreat to Coralhelm sucks right now, and has sucked for a while. With that in mind, I think that the following is the list I'd run at FNM:
2 Birds of Paradise
4 Voice of Resurgence
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Selfless Spirit
2 Smuggler's Copter
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Spell Queller
2 Tireless Tracker
2 Courser of Kruphix
3 path to exile
4 Collected Company
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
22 lands
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As someone who has been reading the thread sporadically (and hasn't built the deck yet), would you mind elaborating on this? I don't think your wrong, but I'm curious specifically what reasons make Coralhelm weak right now.
In the games I've played it's pretty lackluster, and often times I wished it were something else. With the rise of control and midrange, I don't think a 3 mana enchantment that doesn't affect the board is where you want to be.
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I haven't been playing with coralhelm for a while. I basically play a straight "bant value" deck, or bant company, or whatever you wanna call it. The reason I chose bant over any devoted/vizier combo is exactly because I think this combination gives us the strongest creatures. Voice, Reliquary, Tracker, Courser, Ooze, Queller, Jace, Clique, Reflector Mage, E. Witness, all of those are good value guys. We have most of GW company's value, with counter backup from SB, Jace, Nissa and a little main deck disruption (queller, meddling mage).
Also, I play 22 lands/8 dorks, and I suffer more from mana screw than mana flood.
It's not my first deck choice, but I believe it's the best Collected Company deck out there (or maybe elves?). It's simply not the best time for CoCo decks.