What are you having trouble with against Eldrazi? Everything points to it being a favorable match up.
Specifically against BW, everything is chumpable, your flyers are better than theirs, and Path doesn't help them with processing fuel as tokens cease to exist.
All is Dust is also a 0-1 of, otherwise they have extreme difficulty with decks that go wide.
Ulamog isn't chumpable but they run 1, maybe 2, so just point the removal there.
If you think it is really, really hard then bring in Leyline of Sanctity.
Red should be burn, Goblins, Dragons, draw/discard, and Standard-unplayable 5CMC cards with insane, lengthy effects that take 10 minutes to figure out what they do and another 20 to actually make their effects work on the field.
Looking at the lists it seems like Leyline of Sanctity shuts them down pretty good. If it is that common of a matchup I'd just run 1-2 side, and bring in those plus Needles for GQ, Runed Halo, and Hide/Seek to exile Ulamog and gain 10 life.
Magic is actually a fairly well balanced game. Few stay Tier 1 for long as everything has an antithesis ... Or hate cards that eventually move in. Takes time though for the pendulum to swing. Even the tier one decks have bad MUs.
Everything you shore up usually takes away your advantage from somewhere else or waters down your core. Sometimes you just have to go to a tourney hoping to dodge certain archetypes and hope others take them out.
So I would hesitate on too many one ofs that improve one matchup .... If you even see the card just trying to shore up bad matchups as opposed to strengthening good matchups. Like said above, we don't have the card draw to dig or tutor to get that card we need yet. While we have cards with value, we aren't really quick or easy on the mana base either.
I don't really think we lose too much using 2-4 Leylines in our sideboard. It's good against BGx, 8Rack (it's a thing in my meta ), new Eldrazi deck, Burn...
I wouldn't mind using 2 Ghost Quarters main.
Against Merfolk, Ghostly Prison is probably a good answer.
I don't really think we lose too much using 2-4 Leylines in our sideboard. It's good against BGx, 8Rack (it's a thing in my meta ), new Eldrazi deck, Burn...
I wouldn't mind using 2 Ghost Quarters main.
Against Merfolk, Ghostly Prison is probably a good answer.
Yup I long ago kept the 2 ghost quarter main and 2 leyline sb. Also 2 runed halo main in my BW tokens. Always something to name game one after seeing their hand.
In my abzan version a couple pages back, which I've only tried a couple times, I removed the leylines and halos for decays and choke. But that could be argued and up to the meta.
Adding to the abzan tokens thoughts, as card draw is an issue for us, perhaps Painful Truths will help. Maybe Trostani, Selesnya's Voice SB depending how many green sources. Can always Windbrisk her in too.
Okay guys, inverter of truth. That one is begging for us to break it. We are always complaining about mana and card draw problems late game or whatever, imagine if you had 10 cards in your deck and you knew each one was a path, token generator, Sorin, whatever? Nothing but gas...
the only 4 mana creature this deck is going to play is just hero of bladehold if anything imo. That being said, I still think inverter of truth is a badass card
I think the Tron portion should mention the fact that an active Ugin is unbeatable. Karn, Ulamog, etc can be dealt with (Path, beatdown, etc.) Ugin cannot! Most lists are running 2-3 main now and that would be my first target with Needle.
So I guess I'm late to this reply but while Ugin can't be beat, so many other cards beat Pithing needle in Tron that we almost need to be naming something else (Karn/Stone) with our first Needle before we can name Ugin.
Good point, I had actually forgotten about Stone cause I haven't had Tron drop it on me yet. Only played a couple games vs it though. Usually Ugin was what ended it. TnN actually might be more popular in my area from what I've seen (or I just always see those people), which is odd given the high level of serious competitive players here. TnN is also a much more favorable matchup.
Honestly, every time I've played Tron, I have to name either Karn or Stone first. Then the unamed one takes care of my needle or whatever. And the Ugin comes down. We have to shut down Ugin, Karn, Stone, and then we can take care of the their Wurms/Pyroclasms. But do it fast, or Emrakul closes the game out. I just hate Tron so much right now....
So this isn't going to be a popular opinion, but here goes:
Every new spoiled card in a set does not have a home in BW tokens. Just because it is white or black doesn't mean it is an auto-include. It generates tokens? Ok. We can look at it and play with it, but don't get your hopes up. Those of you who remember back to the Khans block and tokens, there were cards from there that people swore would play well with tokens and even put up results (aside from Sorin). Guess what? We don't see any of those. Past performance is not an indicator of future success, I agree. However, what I see a lot here is hope that some of these spoiled cards will be amazing. They will be, maybe, if you pair of 4 oath of gideon with a whole bunch of walkers. We lack the card draw and deck manipulation to really take advantage of the oath. There really isn't a whole lot to discuss on that point.
Having said this, we should play around with new stuff and throw it around. But, keep in mind: what match-ups do we have that are bad that this card will help improve? As a side note to that, if a lot of folks don't agree with you on a matchup, ask yourself is it because your deck is very different or because you didn't play correctly. I am no great shakes at the game and acknowledge when I made a bad mulligan decision, didn't shuffle correctly, or flat out didn't see a line of play. As a group, the only way we can improve this deck is through honesty with ourselves and our tools. We all want to make our matchup's better.
To date, our big bad meta matches are: Tron (all flavors), Amulet Bloom (Amulet of Vigor will probably get banned; what will replace it?), and Merfolk. I would say burn is 50/50 and better post board. There are other matches I am leaving out. What can we board or include to improve these?
Are there sleepers? O
This isn't exactly directed at you, but I think you touched on something important to Developing Competitive threads:
I agree with everything you said. We need a better way to deal with new proposed cards. I think it should be in the primer. What I don't agree with is how dismissive people are of proposed cards. No one knows anyone else's meta, and that card may be fine in the deck. It all depends on personal goals, how the deck is built, and the meta surrounding it. I think a lot of the problem stems from the poster's questions: "Is X good in Y?" Is a terrible question. I've been guilty of this before and I'll make sure I'm more conscious of asking useful questions. We still need to test out proposed cards, as you mentioned, but I'm not seeing that. All that happens is someone says it sucks, and then everyone moves on without any measurable progress being made.
As I've said over and over: We need to get together as a community and start actually playing games out!!!
Another League Match against BW Eldrazi.
The last two leagues it was Atarka Red and Bx Eldrazi almost exclusively.
I am sick to my stomach.
It's like Jund meets Tron, just better.
It completely disregards you (except when Relic prompts you to exile a card from your GY) and will mull to 4 before playing Relic T1 and All-is-Dust you on Turn 5.
It hoses Windbrisk Heights, our only tempo-advantage card. It hoses Lingering Souls.
I've had two duals destroyed by Ghost Quarter, then exiled via Relic, followed up by Oblivion Sower gaining him FOUR lands. **** that deck with the heat of a thousand suns.
It would be helpful to post your list. My advice would be to take out the heights (at least in G2/3), and bring in your own GQs for their Temples. The deck is new and people are still learning how to deal with it. At the end of the day, it's just a midrange deck that wins on the ground. Our game plan should be the same. Fly over them. It doesn't matter how many lands they get off Sower, they don't have much real card draw. As such, the lands aren't doing too much. Bring in the Stony Silence's to fight their relics.
I don't really think we lose too much using 2-4 Leylines in our sideboard. It's good against BGx, 8Rack (it's a thing in my meta ), new Eldrazi deck, Burn...
I wouldn't mind using 2 Ghost Quarters main.
Against Merfolk, Ghostly Prison is probably a good answer.
I think that Ghostly Prison is a good choice against Merfolk. Looking at their sideboard, most lists can't remove it once it sticks. Well, actually no fish list have I seen can remove it after it sticks.
Okay guys, inverter of truth. That one is begging for us to break it. We are always complaining about mana and card draw problems late game or whatever, imagine if you had 10 cards in your deck and you knew each one was a path, token generator, Sorin, whatever? Nothing but gas...
I have no idea how we would ever break that card. It seems like something we shouldn't be trying to do, but I'm down to see a list and play some games out.
Edit: People keep forgetting to add Scapeshift to our bad matchups. Bad matchup is bad. Also, cockatrice Username is peterhone. Anyone who wants practice playing against a particular deck or wants to test something new, or just wants some more practice with the deck and we can set up a time to play some games.
Leyline deals with straight RG Scapeshift pretty well, but Bring to Light Scapeshift is another beast entirely. I don't even bother running GQ side because of how bad the RG Tron match is. Rather free up a few slots for answers to winnable matches. Also worth noting for the people trying to beat Tron that Emrakul is on the way out. Most pro lists have cut it and are running 3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger instead.
I'm also going to start taking screen shots of tough spots while playing on Cockatrice, so I can bring them back here and get other people's opinions and discussion. I'll post a list up of what I was playing and what my thought process was. Along with tuning the list, I think it's important to really eliminate as many play mistakes as we can, so our testing results are more meaningful. I'd encourage anyone else to do the same. It's real simple, and no additional software is needed beyond like Paint or equivalent.
Here's an example of what I'm thinking:
I was wondering what people's opinions on Mulling this hand were. I decided to keep it, but it seemed slow. Wasn't sure who I was playing, but it turned out to be BW Eldrazi.
On the subject of BW Eldrazi, I just played a game against them where I felt extremely outmatched in a creature battle. What I think I want is like Hour of Reckoning or Damnation or Wrath of God for that matchup. They don't have any real card draw at all. I think we can outpace them in rebuilding after a Wrath. Just the fact that we can have 3 2/2 fliers the next turn is huge.
edit: In the future, I'll crop it so it's not so hard to see what the heck is going on.
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I agree with the testing, but the deck works pretty well. The meta is really hostile and we are trying to gain percents and improve bad matches. When we throw a card out there, we should be specific about what we think it might do to help AND also think about not only the awesome but also, what is the worst case scenario. That latter shouldn't be taken too far, but it addresses issues like "would this card help a stalled board?"
In terms of that hand, I would've kept. It has everything I would want in a great opening hand.
Tokens recovers from board wipes well. In fact, I will sometimes take cards other than the board wipe when I thought seize and keep a Souls in the yard just because I want them to think I am stupid when I crush them the next turn with more tokens. I think you are correct on the wipes angle. I have noticed playing them that they would totally stall out if you could take care of their big threat. Holding up a board wipe and even keeping another discard effect in hand would do a lot.
I agree with the testing, but the deck works pretty well. The meta is really hostile and we are trying to gain percents and improve bad matches. When we throw a card out there, we should be specific about what we think it might do to help AND also think about not only the awesome but also, what is the worst case scenario. That latter shouldn't be taken too far, but it addresses issues like "would this card help a stalled board?"
In terms of that hand, I would've kept. It has everything I would want in a great opening hand.
Tokens recovers from board wipes well. In fact, I will sometimes take cards other than the board wipe when I thought seize and keep a Souls in the yard just because I want them to think I am stupid when I crush them the next turn with more tokens. I think you are correct on the wipes angle. I have noticed playing them that they would totally stall out if you could take care of their big threat. Holding up a board wipe and even keeping another discard effect in hand would do a lot.
Yeah, for sure. I think that we all need to be more specific in asking questions about cards choices. What we're looking to do, what problems we've got, that the local meta looks like, and a what our deck looks like. Those questions will get a much better response, and I think move things along in the way that I believe you're thinking.
It's sort of a bad example. This hand is pretty obvious, but I think some of the Thoughtseize examples could generate some discussion.
What I found in my, extremely small, sample is that a lot of times, my OP hand 1-2 cards in hand and then two 5/8's, and a pair of 4/5's. We run a lot of removal, my list was running around 7 slots not including things like Zealous Persecution, but I don't think it's enough for decks like Eldrazi and Fish. Zoo we have the silver(ish) bullet of Auriok Champion. Much to my chagrin she doesn't survive combat against Wasteland Stranglers....
Edit: You can see the OP's hand because cockatrice shows you both hands when you're going through the replay. I may go back and grab some screenshots from the BW Eldrazi game.
Here's what I've got from the BW Eldrazi game. Lost 0-2. I was trying MB 3x Brimaz, and 2x Hero of Bladehold because I wanted to try and find some "anthems" that will still do something more on their own. This was because I've been finding that I'll draw only one half of my deck in games, and having something that buffs but still blocks would be great.
Here's a real questionable move I got myself into in Game 1. I hadn't seen a land in about 4-5 turns. I feel like I have a tendency to get too cute with things like that. Would you all have been more conservative with the Path? My thinking was that if I ensure my third land drop, I open the possibility of playing some 4 drops next turn, and I KNOW I can at least buy some time with chump blockers for Sower.
I agree that just throwing card suggestions out is counterproductive. I've personally tested any card I've suggested on here and/or have specific matchups in mind. To quickly summarize my suggestions here they are. Most of these are for a BWr list but some can be run without red.
Wear//Tear: Replaces Disenchant/Sundering, cannot be redirected by Spellskite when cast for Tear, can be fused to kill Skite and an Enchantment while still being immune to redirection. can be used with minimum red to the point I would almost suggest any straight BW list run a singleton Sacred Foundry.
Hide//Seek: Additional Artifact/Enchantment hate that can remove indestructible targets when cast for Hide. Instant speed unrestricted search and exile effect when cast for Seek. Additionally gains caster life equal to the exiled cards CMC. Useful against any Gifts/Tutor effect where you can predict the most problematic target.
Dragon Tempest: Grants haste to all flying tokens on etb. Allows a much more aggressive stance to be taken and can easily be boarded out if unneeded. Still testing but has proven to be especially useful in the U/x Tron matchup as you can easily deal lethal by turn 5 with the right hand/draws.
So I've been tossing around this idea for a little while. I want to start testing Obzedat, Ghost Council in the sideboard against Tron. The only removal they have that can hit it is O-stone. I think that something like GQ MB/SB, Surgical Extraction, Stony Silence, and Ghost Dad would be enough to beat them in a reasonable number of games. The list I'm looking at is below. My current anti-Tron package is GQ+Surgical, and then I'm running stony for Affinity, Tron, Edlrazi, and Lantern. That's a lot of cards to bring in postboard, but I'm wondering if we can shift gears to almost a BW Control deck with the main win-cons being planeswalkers and Ghost Dad.
It's a 3 turn clock even when they're at 20 life, so it'll let us close the game out and our main concern would just be getting to 5 lands. It's a lot of lands, but bringing in 2-3 extra lands would beef up the land count to 26-27ish lands.
If anyone would be willing to test that idea with me, please send me a PM.
this is the list I'm planning on testing. If anyone has suggestions, I'd be interested in bringing the best list into the test as possible. I want to slot in 1 Liliana of the Veil, but not sure where to put her. Right now, Gideon is pulling so much weight I'm not interested in cutting him.
Honestly, I'm starting to notice a trend, and a controversial one at that: everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY I have heard who ever splashed red has loved it. I think we need to move in and maybe even conform to it. Look, the meta is hostile right now and red seems to be solving some problems. I will admit, I haven't had the money to splash red, byt I would totally play it if I could. Maybe I'm wrong, but we should probably shoot for it.
EDIT: On the note of Obzedat, I've noticed a lot of MTGO League lists are kind of a BW Control list. Maybe we just aren't fit to he midrange anymore, at least not in BW. BWr still manages to be midrangey.
Honestly, I'm starting to notice a trend, and a controversial one at that: everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY I have heard who ever splashed red has loved it. I think we need to move in and maybe even conform to it. Look, the meta is hostile right now and red seems to be solving some problems. I will admit, I haven't had the money to splash red, byt I would totally play it if I could. Maybe I'm wrong, but we should probably shoot for it.
EDIT: On the note of Obzedat, I've noticed a lot of MTGO League lists are kind of a BW Control list. Maybe we just aren't fit to he midrange anymore, at least not in BW. BWr still manages to be midrangey.
We never really were a midrange deck. Tokens excels against midrange and tempo decks, because its utterly pointless to try and out-tempo us. We even do well vs some aggro decks.
Every time I play against Grixis Delver and they resolve a turn 3 gurmag angler, its like "so? You arent going to swarm me or kill me with that!". They can't attack you, you have too much stuff to remove, and even if they do boardwipe you with 4 bolts and an electrolyze "I flashback lingering souls" is always a thing.
We are fundamentally an aggro deck as we win with creatures, but play more like a control deck. Kill their threats, survive, and be resilient.
A midrange deck is one that plays undercosted creatures, and has answers for everything, early, mid and late game, so it is never totally out of the game. It relies on getting an advantage in some way, and holding onto it. It can play beatdown or control.
There are very few decks that we actually try to beatdown because we are slower than almost everything out there. Ideally, we want to focus on effective answers rather than simply trying to go faster.
I like the red splash, but I feel like it is a totally different deck in concept as you said. My own list revolves around a lockdown with Liliana and Bitterblossom, and I dont see how the red splash would work in my own version
Our bad matchups are ones that are totally uninteractive or bypass our life total. Tron doesnt care what you are doing, Bloom only cares if you have counterspells or Thoughtseize, Scapeshift only cares about playing lands.
Okay guys so I've been playing my BW Eldrazi list a lot. Deck is pretty sweet if you haven't tried it out yet...
I think the matchup for us is tough, but winnable, it's no Tron and we are favored if they draw the wrong half of their deck which does seem to happen half of the time. Either way, we need to race them as fast as possible and throw a lot of hand disruption their way. Here are a few pointers:
1) Stony Silence is good, it blanks their exile artifacts and shuts down expedition map. Eldrazi decks need to exile your cards to run smoothly, shutting them out of this will slow them down a turn or several.
2) Hand disruption is good, and taking the right cards early will help. Board in Duress and aim to take out any exile enablers like relic of progenitus/spellbomb early if you can. If they don't have any Eldrazi Lands on board or in hand, take their expedition map. Also, keep an eye out for board sweepers, most lists have access to several. If they are already established on board, thoughtseize their biggest mana ramp threat.
3) Consider replacing Dismember with something like Go for the Throat. Their big threats are just too fat and Dismember no longer cuts it.
4) Ghost quarter is reasonable and you may consider playing one-two in the main/SB as the deck becomes more popular. Aim to pop Eldrazi lands.
5) Hold a path (and prepare to float white mana) for Ulamog, the ceaseless hunger, they can tutor and will play him once they hit 10 mana.
Board out anything that doesn't give you a fast clock or contribute to disruption, board in everything that does.
Stony Silence doesn't do enough in the Tron matchup and is unnecessary for the Affinity matchup. Ghost Quarters for obvious reason. Probably board out some number of Spectral when bringing in the double GQ. Cut a Dismember for a second Go for the Throat. Added another EE for the Merfolk matchup.
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One of these day I have to get myself organizized.
Stony Silence doesn't do enough in the Tron matchup and is unnecessary for the Affinity matchup. Ghost Quarters for obvious reason. Probably board out some number of Spectral when bringing in the double GQ. Cut a Dismember for a second Go for the Throat. Added another EE for the Merfolk matchup.
You sure about cutting the Stony silence? Ive found that its absolutely necessary in order to get Liliana down and actually do something with her, rather than just gettin exiled by Karn
Also, what do you think of Pithing Needle in the Sideboard?
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Specifically against BW, everything is chumpable, your flyers are better than theirs, and Path doesn't help them with processing fuel as tokens cease to exist.
All is Dust is also a 0-1 of, otherwise they have extreme difficulty with decks that go wide.
Ulamog isn't chumpable but they run 1, maybe 2, so just point the removal there.
If you think it is really, really hard then bring in Leyline of Sanctity.
Everything you shore up usually takes away your advantage from somewhere else or waters down your core. Sometimes you just have to go to a tourney hoping to dodge certain archetypes and hope others take them out.
So I would hesitate on too many one ofs that improve one matchup .... If you even see the card just trying to shore up bad matchups as opposed to strengthening good matchups. Like said above, we don't have the card draw to dig or tutor to get that card we need yet. While we have cards with value, we aren't really quick or easy on the mana base either.
Modern
URB Grixis Delver
GWB Abzan Company
RWB Mardu Burn
WB Martyr Proc
I wouldn't mind using 2 Ghost Quarters main.
Against Merfolk, Ghostly Prison is probably a good answer.
Yup I long ago kept the 2 ghost quarter main and 2 leyline sb. Also 2 runed halo main in my BW tokens. Always something to name game one after seeing their hand.
In my abzan version a couple pages back, which I've only tried a couple times, I removed the leylines and halos for decays and choke. But that could be argued and up to the meta.
Adding to the abzan tokens thoughts, as card draw is an issue for us, perhaps Painful Truths will help. Maybe Trostani, Selesnya's Voice SB depending how many green sources. Can always Windbrisk her in too.
Modern
URB Grixis Delver
GWB Abzan Company
RWB Mardu Burn
WB Martyr Proc
Honestly, every time I've played Tron, I have to name either Karn or Stone first. Then the unamed one takes care of my needle or whatever. And the Ugin comes down. We have to shut down Ugin, Karn, Stone, and then we can take care of the their Wurms/Pyroclasms. But do it fast, or Emrakul closes the game out. I just hate Tron so much right now....
This isn't exactly directed at you, but I think you touched on something important to Developing Competitive threads:
I agree with everything you said. We need a better way to deal with new proposed cards. I think it should be in the primer. What I don't agree with is how dismissive people are of proposed cards. No one knows anyone else's meta, and that card may be fine in the deck. It all depends on personal goals, how the deck is built, and the meta surrounding it. I think a lot of the problem stems from the poster's questions: "Is X good in Y?" Is a terrible question. I've been guilty of this before and I'll make sure I'm more conscious of asking useful questions. We still need to test out proposed cards, as you mentioned, but I'm not seeing that. All that happens is someone says it sucks, and then everyone moves on without any measurable progress being made.
As I've said over and over: We need to get together as a community and start actually playing games out!!!
It would be helpful to post your list. My advice would be to take out the heights (at least in G2/3), and bring in your own GQs for their Temples. The deck is new and people are still learning how to deal with it. At the end of the day, it's just a midrange deck that wins on the ground. Our game plan should be the same. Fly over them. It doesn't matter how many lands they get off Sower, they don't have much real card draw. As such, the lands aren't doing too much. Bring in the Stony Silence's to fight their relics.
I think that Ghostly Prison is a good choice against Merfolk. Looking at their sideboard, most lists can't remove it once it sticks. Well, actually no fish list have I seen can remove it after it sticks.
I have no idea how we would ever break that card. It seems like something we shouldn't be trying to do, but I'm down to see a list and play some games out.
Edit: People keep forgetting to add Scapeshift to our bad matchups. Bad matchup is bad. Also, cockatrice Username is peterhone. Anyone who wants practice playing against a particular deck or wants to test something new, or just wants some more practice with the deck and we can set up a time to play some games.
R8whackR
WUBGAtraxa Stax-Superfriends *Under Construction*WUBG
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Here's an example of what I'm thinking:
I was wondering what people's opinions on Mulling this hand were. I decided to keep it, but it seemed slow. Wasn't sure who I was playing, but it turned out to be BW Eldrazi.
On the subject of BW Eldrazi, I just played a game against them where I felt extremely outmatched in a creature battle. What I think I want is like Hour of Reckoning or Damnation or Wrath of God for that matchup. They don't have any real card draw at all. I think we can outpace them in rebuilding after a Wrath. Just the fact that we can have 3 2/2 fliers the next turn is huge.
edit: In the future, I'll crop it so it's not so hard to see what the heck is going on.
R8whackR
WUBGAtraxa Stax-Superfriends *Under Construction*WUBG
In terms of that hand, I would've kept. It has everything I would want in a great opening hand.
Tokens recovers from board wipes well. In fact, I will sometimes take cards other than the board wipe when I thought seize and keep a Souls in the yard just because I want them to think I am stupid when I crush them the next turn with more tokens. I think you are correct on the wipes angle. I have noticed playing them that they would totally stall out if you could take care of their big threat. Holding up a board wipe and even keeping another discard effect in hand would do a lot.
Yeah, for sure. I think that we all need to be more specific in asking questions about cards choices. What we're looking to do, what problems we've got, that the local meta looks like, and a what our deck looks like. Those questions will get a much better response, and I think move things along in the way that I believe you're thinking.
It's sort of a bad example. This hand is pretty obvious, but I think some of the Thoughtseize examples could generate some discussion.
What I found in my, extremely small, sample is that a lot of times, my OP hand 1-2 cards in hand and then two 5/8's, and a pair of 4/5's. We run a lot of removal, my list was running around 7 slots not including things like Zealous Persecution, but I don't think it's enough for decks like Eldrazi and Fish. Zoo we have the silver(ish) bullet of Auriok Champion. Much to my chagrin she doesn't survive combat against Wasteland Stranglers....
Edit: You can see the OP's hand because cockatrice shows you both hands when you're going through the replay. I may go back and grab some screenshots from the BW Eldrazi game.
Here's what I've got from the BW Eldrazi game. Lost 0-2. I was trying MB 3x Brimaz, and 2x Hero of Bladehold because I wanted to try and find some "anthems" that will still do something more on their own. This was because I've been finding that I'll draw only one half of my deck in games, and having something that buffs but still blocks would be great.
Here's a real questionable move I got myself into in Game 1. I hadn't seen a land in about 4-5 turns. I feel like I have a tendency to get too cute with things like that. Would you all have been more conservative with the Path? My thinking was that if I ensure my third land drop, I open the possibility of playing some 4 drops next turn, and I KNOW I can at least buy some time with chump blockers for Sower.
R8whackR
WUBGAtraxa Stax-Superfriends *Under Construction*WUBG
Wear//Tear: Replaces Disenchant/Sundering, cannot be redirected by Spellskite when cast for Tear, can be fused to kill Skite and an Enchantment while still being immune to redirection. can be used with minimum red to the point I would almost suggest any straight BW list run a singleton Sacred Foundry.
Hide//Seek: Additional Artifact/Enchantment hate that can remove indestructible targets when cast for Hide. Instant speed unrestricted search and exile effect when cast for Seek. Additionally gains caster life equal to the exiled cards CMC. Useful against any Gifts/Tutor effect where you can predict the most problematic target.
Dragon Tempest: Grants haste to all flying tokens on etb. Allows a much more aggressive stance to be taken and can easily be boarded out if unneeded. Still testing but has proven to be especially useful in the U/x Tron matchup as you can easily deal lethal by turn 5 with the right hand/draws.
It's a 3 turn clock even when they're at 20 life, so it'll let us close the game out and our main concern would just be getting to 5 lands. It's a lot of lands, but bringing in 2-3 extra lands would beef up the land count to 26-27ish lands.
If anyone would be willing to test that idea with me, please send me a PM.
this is the list I'm planning on testing. If anyone has suggestions, I'd be interested in bringing the best list into the test as possible. I want to slot in 1 Liliana of the Veil, but not sure where to put her. Right now, Gideon is pulling so much weight I'm not interested in cutting him.
4 Bitterblossom
4 Intangible Virtue
Spells
2 Murderous cut
4 Path to Exile
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Zealous Persecution
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Lingering Souls
4 Spectral Procession
3 Sorin, solemn visitor
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Lands
3 Fetid Heath
4 Godless Shrine
3 Isolated Chapel
4 Marsh Flats
3 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Vault of the archangel
1 Ghost quarter
3 Windswept heath
3 Auriok Champion
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Stony Silence
1 Murderous Cut
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
R8whackR
WUBGAtraxa Stax-Superfriends *Under Construction*WUBG
EDIT: On the note of Obzedat, I've noticed a lot of MTGO League lists are kind of a BW Control list. Maybe we just aren't fit to he midrange anymore, at least not in BW. BWr still manages to be midrangey.
We never really were a midrange deck. Tokens excels against midrange and tempo decks, because its utterly pointless to try and out-tempo us. We even do well vs some aggro decks.
Every time I play against Grixis Delver and they resolve a turn 3 gurmag angler, its like "so? You arent going to swarm me or kill me with that!". They can't attack you, you have too much stuff to remove, and even if they do boardwipe you with 4 bolts and an electrolyze "I flashback lingering souls" is always a thing.
We are fundamentally an aggro deck as we win with creatures, but play more like a control deck. Kill their threats, survive, and be resilient.
A midrange deck is one that plays undercosted creatures, and has answers for everything, early, mid and late game, so it is never totally out of the game. It relies on getting an advantage in some way, and holding onto it. It can play beatdown or control.
There are very few decks that we actually try to beatdown because we are slower than almost everything out there. Ideally, we want to focus on effective answers rather than simply trying to go faster.
I like the red splash, but I feel like it is a totally different deck in concept as you said. My own list revolves around a lockdown with Liliana and Bitterblossom, and I dont see how the red splash would work in my own version
Our bad matchups are ones that are totally uninteractive or bypass our life total. Tron doesnt care what you are doing, Bloom only cares if you have counterspells or Thoughtseize, Scapeshift only cares about playing lands.
I think the matchup for us is tough, but winnable, it's no Tron and we are favored if they draw the wrong half of their deck which does seem to happen half of the time. Either way, we need to race them as fast as possible and throw a lot of hand disruption their way. Here are a few pointers:
1) Stony Silence is good, it blanks their exile artifacts and shuts down expedition map. Eldrazi decks need to exile your cards to run smoothly, shutting them out of this will slow them down a turn or several.
2) Hand disruption is good, and taking the right cards early will help. Board in Duress and aim to take out any exile enablers like relic of progenitus/spellbomb early if you can. If they don't have any Eldrazi Lands on board or in hand, take their expedition map. Also, keep an eye out for board sweepers, most lists have access to several. If they are already established on board, thoughtseize their biggest mana ramp threat.
3) Consider replacing Dismember with something like Go for the Throat. Their big threats are just too fat and Dismember no longer cuts it.
4) Ghost quarter is reasonable and you may consider playing one-two in the main/SB as the deck becomes more popular. Aim to pop Eldrazi lands.
5) Hold a path (and prepare to float white mana) for Ulamog, the ceaseless hunger, they can tutor and will play him once they hit 10 mana.
Board out anything that doesn't give you a fast clock or contribute to disruption, board in everything that does.
BW Eldrazi - http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/bw-eldrazi-proc/
U Merfolk - http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/fishmode/
3 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Marsh Flats
3 Windswept Heath
4 Godless Shrine
1 Isolated Chapel
2 Fetid Heath
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Ghost Quarter
3 Windbrisk Heights
4 Path to Exile
2 Raise the Alarm
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
4 Spectral Procession
3 Thoughtseize
2 Oath of Gideon
3 Bitterblossom
1 Murderous Cut
2 Rest in Peace
1 Auriok Champion
1 Timely Reinforcement
1 Disenchant
2 Go for the Throat
1 Duress
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Elspeth Tirel
2 Ghost Quarter
Stony Silence doesn't do enough in the Tron matchup and is unnecessary for the Affinity matchup. Ghost Quarters for obvious reason. Probably board out some number of Spectral when bringing in the double GQ. Cut a Dismember for a second Go for the Throat. Added another EE for the Merfolk matchup.
You sure about cutting the Stony silence? Ive found that its absolutely necessary in order to get Liliana down and actually do something with her, rather than just gettin exiled by Karn
Also, what do you think of Pithing Needle in the Sideboard?