Hi!
I used to play abzan before the BBE unban and I was very confortable with very good results in competitive leagues, with the BBE unban, I moved to Jund, I was playing the 25 land list, that Reid Duke suggested a while ago, but I was not having good results, decided to tune it to beat the main decks in the format, and I ended up with the list below. I am able to consistently beat hollow one, but the deck still struggles against humans consistently, any suggestions?
Which would be the sideboard plan against humans?
Do you guys cut inquisition? the guide in the first page suggests that.
Hi!
Since Humans runs so much disruption, I personally keep all 4 inquisitions and replace TS with Collective Brutality (as it can kill a creature -looking at you, Meddling Mage) and lifegain is relevant.
Looking at your decklist, I believe that you struggle against Humans because you run a single Fatal Push. I run a 3/3 split between Bolt and push for that same reason. Of course, your mileage may vary.
My sideboard plan ATM is:
+2 CB -2 TS
-1 LotV (if running 3) +1 Anger of the gods
-1 LtlH +1 Engineered Explosives (Anger of the gods would be it in your place)
-2 BBE +2 Finks (1 finks and one tracker in your case)
When playing against Humans, it is very important to keep a lower curve and make the most efficient possible use of your mana while removing key pieces. I feel inquisition (even while being a LOUSY topdeck) is necesary to make sure Meddling Mage, Kitesail Freebooter or Reflector mage screw up your plans.
Aggro decks are becoming a higher and higher percentage of the meta. Humans are just ******* good, as is Hollow One. Affinity is always a solid deck choice for large tournaments (and is strongly represented at my LGS) and is supposed to have a great MU against Humans. Anger of the Gods is good against all three of these decks. At what point do we start to consider mainboarding Anger?
When looking at mtgtop8's meta breakdown for the past two weeks, the three aforementioned decks represent quarter of the entire meta.
For the past two months they represent 20%.
Honestly the card is relevant against a lot of other decks as well, including Bogles, Elves, Company combo decks, Mardu Pyromancer, etc. The problem is there are some MUs where it isn't going to do anything for you at all, but the same could be said for Terminate I guess.
I don't think the meta quite warrants it at this very moment, but if we keep with this Aggro trend, I could see it becoming a viable MB inclusion. I am curious what everyone considers the threshold should be for its inclusion.
I would much rather mainboard kitchen finks or Kalitas to hedge against aggro than Anger.
I can definitely see the reasoning behind this. Finks and Kalitas are still a clock (+ value, in the case of Finks) even in MUs where they’re not particularly relevant. Sometimes Anger just does nothing. Still, Finks and Kalitas really aren’t helpful in the Affinity MU, and that’s up there in the top 3 right now. Also, Kalitas and Finks aren’t going to affect the boardstate quite as effectively as Anger when they are all relevant. With that said, I agree that the meta is still way too wide open for designated MB hate like that right now.
Quote from from="Jori, The Splashy Puddle »" url="/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/midrange/770899-jund?comment=5169” »
From the information I have of the upcoming decks at the tournament, push is better then bolt.
Also I opted for a maindeck grim lavamancer over 3rd bolt.
Man, that feels wrong to me. I MB Lavaman at the expense of the 4th Bolt because I value Lavaman so much, but I don’t like not having all 4 bolts, and I’m always looking for a way to fit the 4th one back in. I don’t think I’d ever consider running fewer than three, except for in extreme, corner cases. As long as life totals are relavent, it’s always going to be at least a little relavent. It’s one of the big reasons to not play Lingering Souls, Path, and Stony Silence.
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With us playing Grim Flayer, collective brutality, LOTV, and BBE, do we want to run any copies of lingering souls? Those 4 cards all enable us to play souls without using white mana, and we could afford to run 1 or 2 white mana sources in our manabase.
EDIT: LTLH can also allow you to cast lingering souls without having white mana.
Hi!
I used to play abzan before the BBE unban and I was very confortable with very good results in competitive leagues, with the BBE unban, I moved to Jund, I was playing the 25 land list, that Reid Duke suggested a while ago, but I was not having good results, decided to tune it to beat the main decks in the format, and I ended up with the list below. I am able to consistently beat hollow one, but the deck still struggles against humans consistently, any suggestions?
Which would be the sideboard plan against humans?
Do you guys cut inquisition? the guide in the first page suggests that.
Hi!
Since Humans runs so much disruption, I personally keep all 4 inquisitions and replace TS with Collective Brutality (as it can kill a creature -looking at you, Meddling Mage) and lifegain is relevant.
Looking at your decklist, I believe that you struggle against Humans because you run a single Fatal Push. I run a 3/3 split between Bolt and push for that same reason. Of course, your mileage may vary.
My sideboard plan ATM is:
+2 CB -2 TS
-1 LotV (if running 3) +1 Anger of the gods
-1 LtlH +1 Engineered Explosives (Anger of the gods would be it in your place)
-2 BBE +2 Finks (1 finks and one tracker in your case)
When playing against Humans, it is very important to keep a lower curve and make the most efficient possible use of your mana while removing key pieces. I feel inquisition (even while being a LOUSY topdeck) is necesary to make sure Meddling Mage, Kitesail Freebooter or Reflector mage screw up your plans.
totally agree on this one. I play IOK and sideboard out LotV when it comes to humans. Its so much better, you can reduce their speed my taking lords out and problem cards early. It is a bad top deck but so is LotV on a wide board.
With us playing Grim Flayer, collective brutality, LOTV, and BBE, do we want to run any copies of lingering souls? Those 4 cards all enable us to play souls without using white mana, and we could afford to run 1 or 2 white mana sources in our manabase.
EDIT: LTLH can also allow you to cast lingering souls without having white mana.
I'm curious to figure this out, we've seen a total of 0 Jund lists running souls, so either all the lists trying souls do poorly or no one is trying it out
My list has done well in testing so far against other “tier” decks on Cockatrice, but I need to vent a little. So this Bogles “player”... right? He gets his turn-0 Leyline down and immediately turns my great hand into garbage. That’s fine, I try to fight the uphill battle but end up losing with a hand full of irrelevant cards. At one point while I was deciding whether to swing with Ravine or play some critters, he urges me to hurry up. That perturbed me, as I was actually playing at a good pace. Whatever though, that’s fine. I concede, unlock my SB and say G2. He says “nah, no thanks. You’re too slow. You can leave.” If it wasn’t Bogles, or if I had actually been playing very slowly, it would have still been super rude, but it wouldn’t have bothered me so much. But this ************ who’s “playing” a deck where your sole and entire strategy is literally to hope you draw the things and the dudes and then you put the things on the dudes, is gonna rush me and cheat me out of a G2 and a chance to use a SB against the single most linear deck in the format. I’m sorry I’m playing a deck that requires real decisions and has real options besides putting the things on the dudes.
This may come as a surprise to some, but people can be rude on the internet, especially when there’s no accountability. Who would have thought? I, for one, am astonished.
*He says sardonically*
Tl;dr: I’m filled with rancor, but Bogles will be Bogles, and turds will be turds.
Anyway, like I was saying, the deck has performed well. I have a lot more threats now. My opponents have been acting like Grim Flayer is a must-answer, and like always, Lavaman is usually a must-answer. When you combine that with a whole lot of other must-answer critters, that’s just some good ol’ fashioned threat density. It’s nice having some threats of my own, instead of just trying unsuccessfully to answer every little thing in the whole format. Three BBE has seemed perfect. I haven’t missed the fourth. Liliana, the Last Hope has been fantastic. I haven’t missed the fourth LotV. I do miss my Abrupt Decay, but maybe that’s just because I kept running into Bogles. Still, I wonder if I can spare a Scooze. I think the answer is no though. I’ve really liked the land base. Seriously. My MB and SB are both really soft to Bogles. Is that a problem? Do we expect to see more of them?
These are just some of my recent (mostly ambiguous and anecdotal) observations and thoughts.
My MB and SB are both really soft to Bogles. Is that a problem? Do we expect to see more of them?
Well, it is a tier deck nowadays... It has been showing up in many top-8s.
Engineered explosives is insane agaisnt that deck. I run 1 in the side and 1 AD maindeck to keep boggles in check, with mild success.
It's been a tier deck for awhile now. I guess I should clarify. Do we expect to see more of the deck around (than we already do) in response to a growing portion of the field represented by Humans, Hollow One, and Affinity? I'm pretty sure those are all good MUs for Bogles, so I wonder if people will respond with Bogles, or just play the best decks in the format right now (Humans, Hollow One, and Affinity). If we do expect to start seeing more Bogles, then I need to adjust my deck accordingly. Looking at EE, Golgari Charm, and finding a spot for that MB Abrupt Decay.
He just can't be played with Bob. That's suicide. Thundermaw Hellkite and Tasigur, the Golden Fang way back when was ballsy enough. He would have to replace Bob, and that just seems strictly worse. We can't fill our yard as well as Mardu, nor do we get the same CA or payoffs by filling our yard like they do. I'm convinced we would just be a bad Mardu Pyromancer.
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Beat Infect, GW Aggro/Hatebear Homebrew, some Unexpected Results deck, and KCI.
It was a weird night. I was hoping to get a couple more meta matches in there, but I’ll take it. Every win was hard-fought.
I’ll add my decklist and more detail later, but for now I’ll just say that the MB Lavaman was absurd. I tapped so many times with that guy tonight, and I’m convinced that the 9x fetches did a lot to help fuel his lava. He was even extremely relevant against KCI. Grim Flayer was amazing too. I’m calling Lavaman and Flayer the Brothers Grim. I won’t leave home without them now.
I missed the 3rd Scooze and I don't necessarily think cutting him for the Abrupt Decay was the right call, but I couldn't think of anything else to cut. I felt very uncomfortable with no Decay in the 75. Especially in my meta. I'm going to have to figure this out.
I actually really liked the Fatal Push and Duress in the SB.
I still think I'm super soft to UWx Control. I'm not really a fan of SBing cards that used to be MB. Like putting the 4th BBE in the side (to mitigate the control MU) just seems like a waste of a SB slot. I'm not saying that's necessarily true, that's just how it feels. Maybe I need to add the 3rd Fulminator Mage back in the side. Thrun seems unnecessary. Still, I'm pretty sure I've cut my percentage of win chances down on that MU with this new list.
I'll say it again, Lavamancer was absurdly good last night. In a similar vein, Lili-tLH was amazing as well. I actually Ulted her twice! I really didn't think I needed to buy her emblem and some zombie tokens. I guess I was wrong.
2x K-Command felt correct over the 2x Maelstrom Pulse option. Still, I need more catch-alls similar to Pulse and Decay.
I connected so many times with Flayer. He was crucial in the Infect MU.
I didn't know what my KCI opponent was on going into the round, and kept a hand that seemed good but had no quick interaction. A professional player (or just a good one) would not have kept that hand going in blind. I should have known better. I've learned my lesson. I would say I got lucky by drawing all the interaction I needed that round, but I'd be lying. I didn't get lucky, I got Grim Flayer. The dude is a beast. I haven't had a lot of practice with the KCI MU. Fortunately the guy was willing do play a few more practice games after the round was over. I'd be all ears if anyone has any tips/advice for that MU, such as timings and stuff. You know, when to kill Trawler/Retriever, when to crack Spellbomb, etc. Just stuff like that.
The landbase was great too.
Those are just a few observations I had last night.
And @J1lberto, about that Hoogland Reveler list, I'm bummed there's no Grim Flayers in it! That seems like a missed opportunity to me. I think I'd rather have Flayer than BBE. Also, while we're at it, Traverse seems good with Reveler. I'm gonna mess around with some brews on Cockatrice. It still feels like a bad Jund deck and a worse Mardu deck had a bad baby though.
Just to be sure, but on the sideboard guids sometimes at “board out” it says (max 1-2) does that mean, board out a max number of 1 or 2 or make sure u still have 1-2 in your mainboard? Its probably the first, just making sure.
Also when will there be added new matchups? Because last tournament it really gave me an edge because I struggle with sideboarding on the fly.
Id like to see matchups like elves, differnt death and taxes decks, bant company, kci, bant knightfall
Just to be sure, but on the sideboard guids sometimes at “board out” it says (max 1-2) does that mean, board out a max number of 1 or 2 or make sure u still have 1-2 in your mainboard? Its probably the first, just making sure.
Also when will there be added new matchups? Because last tournament it really gave me an edge because I struggle with sideboarding on the fly.
Id like to see matchups like elves, differnt death and taxes decks, bant company, kci, bant knightfall
Hey, I did travel to GP Birmingham this weekend so I could not find time to post in the forums. I will focus on those matchups as soon as I can to add those to the SB plan.
And yes, if it says max 1-2, it means you should board out max 1-2 copies of that card.
Beat Infect, GW Aggro/Hatebear Homebrew, some Unexpected Results deck, and KCI.
It was a weird night. I was hoping to get a couple more meta matches in there, but I’ll take it. Every win was hard-fought.
I’ll add my decklist and more detail later, but for now I’ll just say that the MB Lavaman was absurd. I tapped so many times with that guy tonight, and I’m convinced that the 9x fetches did a lot to help fuel his lava. He was even extremely relevant against KCI. Grim Flayer was amazing too. I’m calling Lavaman and Flayer the Brothers Grim. I won’t leave home without them now.
I missed the 3rd Scooze and I don't necessarily think cutting him for the Abrupt Decay was the right call, but I couldn't think of anything else to cut. I felt very uncomfortable with no Decay in the 75. Especially in my meta. I'm going to have to figure this out.
I actually really liked the Fatal Push and Duress in the SB.
I still think I'm super soft to UWx Control. I'm not really a fan of SBing cards that used to be MB. Like putting the 4th BBE in the side (to mitigate the control MU) just seems like a waste of a SB slot. I'm not saying that's necessarily true, that's just how it feels. Maybe I need to add the 3rd Fulminator Mage back in the side. Thrun seems unnecessary. Still, I'm pretty sure I've cut my percentage of win chances down on that MU with this new list.
I'll say it again, Lavamancer was absurdly good last night. In a similar vein, Lili-tLH was amazing as well. I actually Ulted her twice! I really didn't think I needed to buy her emblem and some zombie tokens. I guess I was wrong.
2x K-Command felt correct over the 2x Maelstrom Pulse option. Still, I need more catch-alls similar to Pulse and Decay.
I connected so many times with Flayer. He was crucial in the Infect MU.
I didn't know what my KCI opponent was on going into the round, and kept a hand that seemed good but had no quick interaction. A professional player (or just a good one) would not have kept that hand going in blind. I should have known better. I've learned my lesson. I would say I got lucky by drawing all the interaction I needed that round, but I'd be lying. I didn't get lucky, I got Grim Flayer. The dude is a beast. I haven't had a lot of practice with the KCI MU. Fortunately the guy was willing do play a few more practice games after the round was over. I'd be all ears if anyone has any tips/advice for that MU, such as timings and stuff. You know, when to kill Trawler/Retriever, when to crack Spellbomb, etc. Just stuff like that.
The landbase was great too.
Those are just a few observations I had last night.
And @J1lberto, about that Hoogland Reveler list, I'm bummed there's no Grim Flayers in it! That seems like a missed opportunity to me. I think I'd rather have Flayer than BBE. Also, while we're at it, Traverse seems good with Reveler. I'm gonna mess around with some brews on Cockatrice. It still feels like a bad Jund deck and a worse Mardu deck had a bad baby though.
So the faster jund approach seems to work great. Glad to hear that! As already stated, I will look at newer matchups as soon as I can (like KCI) to add those to the SB plan as well.
Hey guys, I’m preparing for SCG Louisville this weekend. This is the list I plan to take. Some things to note: I dropped the mainboard Nihil Spellbomb for a second mainboard K command, though I feel conflicted. While Spellbomb is never a bad draw, shouldn’t we be mainboarding more flexible answers rather than cards that are just “okay” at most points? I’ve played with it and do like it, but I’d like some feedback.
Additional Questions: Second forest over Twilight Mire? Damping Sphere or Fulminator Mage? I know it’s been discussed before, just curious where people are at these days.
Not sure what to expect, SCG events tend to be much more varied in terms of the decks one might face, so I’ve tried to make the most balanced 75 I can. Please let me know your thoughts!
Just to be sure, but on the sideboard guids sometimes at “board out” it says (max 1-2) does that mean, board out a max number of 1 or 2 or make sure u still have 1-2 in your mainboard? Its probably the first, just making sure.
Also when will there be added new matchups? Because last tournament it really gave me an edge because I struggle with sideboarding on the fly.
Id like to see matchups like elves, differnt death and taxes decks, bant company, kci, bant knightfall
Hey, I did travel to GP Birmingham this weekend so I could not find time to post in the forums. I will focus on those matchups as soon as I can to add those to the SB plan.
And yes, if it says max 1-2, it means you should board out max 1-2 copies of that card.
Awesome, thanks for putting in a lot of work already. How did the GP go for you?
About the sideboard plans, im really curious about
Elves (because its aggro, but also has a combo element and all creaturea are 3cmc and below but coco is 4cmc so im never sure about what discard to board out.
Also the mono white death and taxes, the black and white eldrazi taxes
bant knightfall (how relevant is gy hate, discard and liliana in this matchup)
And bant company with voices and jace that have showb up in my local meta. Not sure how to aproach the matchup perfectly.
One note I would like to make to the infect sideboardplan already on the primer. Im pretty sure u want to sideboard in fulminator and maybe ancient grudge, and im not sure u want to sideboard out decay or pulse..I think scooz goyf and bloodbraid are worse in the matchup
Hey guys, I’m preparing for SCG Louisville this weekend. This is the list I plan to take. Some things to note: I dropped the mainboard Nihil Spellbomb for a second mainboard K command, though I feel conflicted. While Spellbomb is never a bad draw, shouldn’t we be mainboarding more flexible answers rather than cards that are just “okay” at most points? I’ve played with it and do like it, but I’d like some feedback.
Additional Questions: Second forest over Twilight Mire? Damping Sphere or Fulminator Mage? I know it’s been discussed before, just curious where people are at these days.
Not sure what to expect, SCG events tend to be much more varied in terms of the decks one might face, so I’ve tried to make the most balanced 75 I can. Please let me know your thoughts!
Hey guys, I’m preparing for SCG Louisville this weekend. This is the list I plan to take. Some things to note: I dropped the mainboard Nihil Spellbomb for a second mainboard K command, though I feel conflicted. While Spellbomb is never a bad draw, shouldn’t we be mainboarding more flexible answers rather than cards that are just “okay” at most points? I’ve played with it and do like it, but I’d like some feedback.
Additional Questions: Second forest over Twilight Mire? Damping Sphere or Fulminator Mage? I know it’s been discussed before, just curious where people are at these days.
Not sure what to expect, SCG events tend to be much more varied in terms of the decks one might face, so I’ve tried to make the most balanced 75 I can. Please let me know your thoughts!
Flexible answers are double edges swords nowadays. For a wide open meta like Modern is now, those are great in theory. But linear aggro strategies demand on point answers with highest efficiencies. Flexible answers are usually not efficient or on point. Typically they do what cheaper narrower spells do but worse. I would not overload on flexible answers unless they really pull their weight.
If you run Damping Sphere, cut Twilight Mire for sure. If you run Fulminator, you can keep Mire. Whether you want Sphere or not only depends on your expectation to face Tron imo. Fulminator would be way better against Control, which is a strategy to actually exepct right now, due the power of Teferi in those decks.
For your list: If you run Spheres, cut Twilight Mire, like expected. I am also not a fan of playing 4 manlands in 24 landbuilds. The rest looks fine.
Awesome, thanks for putting in a lot of work already. How did the GP go for you?
About the sideboard plans, im really curious about
Elves (because its aggro, but also has a combo element and all creaturea are 3cmc and below but coco is 4cmc so im never sure about what discard to board out.
Also the mono white death and taxes, the black and white eldrazi taxes
bant knightfall (how relevant is gy hate, discard and liliana in this matchup)
And bant company with voices and jace that have showb up in my local meta. Not sure how to aproach the matchup perfectly.
One note I would like to make to the infect sideboardplan already on the primer. Im pretty sure u want to sideboard in fulminator and maybe ancient grudge, and im not sure u want to sideboard out decay or pulse..I think scooz goyf and bloodbraid are worse in the matchup
The GP was great, although I lost my win and in for day 2 unfortunately. But I had lots of fun, met awesome poeple and learned a lot.
I will look over those matchups!
You bring in Grudge for sure against Infect, but I am not really high on Fulminator. But I guess its okay if you want. I don't like Decay or Pulse in this matchup because it does not deal with Inkmoth, I want cheap and instant speed answers for Inkmoth. And I think cutting Goyfs is wrong, because against the deck, when you handled everything they had and when they are in topdeck mode, you need to have a clock available. Sometimes they can just topdeck inkmoth + Become Immense in a row and kill you if you don't have a clock.
What is our weakest card currently? Alternatively, what kind of card would we most like to see printed in a new set?
So my question is kind of double sided and came about while I was wondering what it'd take for a new card to make it into Jund and what cards it might possibly displace. For example, I have a hard time imagining Tarmogoyf or Liliana of the Veil ever being displaced but printing a modal spell that could act as incidental graveyard hate while being main-deckable because of its other applications might be enough to replace Scavenging Ooze with something like Grim Flayer. All of the Jund cards are already so efficient though so I'm having trouble finding answers to how some of them might be displaced.
Thoughts?
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Thoughts on my list for an upcoming small local tournament?
The list very meta dependant for a small tournament with about 8-11 players.
Beforehand some questions and notables.
Im doubting in this list between a 4th bloodbraid or 3rd push.
From the information I have of the upcoming decks at the tournament, push is better then bolt.
Also I opted for a maindeck grim lavamancer over 3rd bolt.
Also opting for 2 pulse and 2 terminates and 0 decay looking at my metagame prediction.
Also went with 3-1 split with the lilis since.
Meta for the tournie looks something like this:
Eldrazitron
Gr tron
Affinity
Br hollow one
Scapeshift
Jund
Maybe:
Bant company
Eldrazi taxis
Tooth and nail
Kci
Ponza
Jund DS
Pox
Boggles
My list:
24 lands
4 cliffs
2 overgrown
1 bloodcrypt
1 stomping
3 ravine
8 fetch
2 swamp
2 forest
1 twilight
14 creatures
3 bbe
4 goyf
3 bob
3 scooze
1 grim lavamancer
22 spells
3 lili veil
1 lili last hope
2 kcommand
2 pulse
2 bolt
3 push
2 terminate
2 thought
4 inq
Sideboard 15
1 thoughhtseize
1 damping sphere
3 fulmiMage
2 Collective brutality
2 Anger
1 Damnation
2 Spellbomb
2 ancient grudge
1 rakdos charm
Thank you
Hi!
Since Humans runs so much disruption, I personally keep all 4 inquisitions and replace TS with Collective Brutality (as it can kill a creature -looking at you, Meddling Mage) and lifegain is relevant.
Looking at your decklist, I believe that you struggle against Humans because you run a single Fatal Push. I run a 3/3 split between Bolt and push for that same reason. Of course, your mileage may vary.
My sideboard plan ATM is:
+2 CB -2 TS
-1 LotV (if running 3) +1 Anger of the gods
-1 LtlH +1 Engineered Explosives (Anger of the gods would be it in your place)
-2 BBE +2 Finks (1 finks and one tracker in your case)
When playing against Humans, it is very important to keep a lower curve and make the most efficient possible use of your mana while removing key pieces. I feel inquisition (even while being a LOUSY topdeck) is necesary to make sure Meddling Mage, Kitesail Freebooter or Reflector mage screw up your plans.
I can definitely see the reasoning behind this. Finks and Kalitas are still a clock (+ value, in the case of Finks) even in MUs where they’re not particularly relevant. Sometimes Anger just does nothing. Still, Finks and Kalitas really aren’t helpful in the Affinity MU, and that’s up there in the top 3 right now. Also, Kalitas and Finks aren’t going to affect the boardstate quite as effectively as Anger when they are all relevant. With that said, I agree that the meta is still way too wide open for designated MB hate like that right now.
Man, that feels wrong to me. I MB Lavaman at the expense of the 4th Bolt because I value Lavaman so much, but I don’t like not having all 4 bolts, and I’m always looking for a way to fit the 4th one back in. I don’t think I’d ever consider running fewer than three, except for in extreme, corner cases. As long as life totals are relavent, it’s always going to be at least a little relavent. It’s one of the big reasons to not play Lingering Souls, Path, and Stony Silence.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
EDIT: LTLH can also allow you to cast lingering souls without having white mana.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
totally agree on this one. I play IOK and sideboard out LotV when it comes to humans. Its so much better, you can reduce their speed my taking lords out and problem cards early. It is a bad top deck but so is LotV on a wide board.
I'm curious to figure this out, we've seen a total of 0 Jund lists running souls, so either all the lists trying souls do poorly or no one is trying it out
This may come as a surprise to some, but people can be rude on the internet, especially when there’s no accountability. Who would have thought? I, for one, am astonished.
*He says sardonically*
Tl;dr: I’m filled with rancor, but Bogles will be Bogles, and turds will be turds.
Anyway, like I was saying, the deck has performed well. I have a lot more threats now. My opponents have been acting like Grim Flayer is a must-answer, and like always, Lavaman is usually a must-answer. When you combine that with a whole lot of other must-answer critters, that’s just some good ol’ fashioned threat density. It’s nice having some threats of my own, instead of just trying unsuccessfully to answer every little thing in the whole format. Three BBE has seemed perfect. I haven’t missed the fourth. Liliana, the Last Hope has been fantastic. I haven’t missed the fourth LotV. I do miss my Abrupt Decay, but maybe that’s just because I kept running into Bogles. Still, I wonder if I can spare a Scooze. I think the answer is no though. I’ve really liked the land base. Seriously. My MB and SB are both really soft to Bogles. Is that a problem? Do we expect to see more of them?
These are just some of my recent (mostly ambiguous and anecdotal) observations and thoughts.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
Well, it is a tier deck nowadays... It has been showing up in many top-8s.
Engineered explosives is insane agaisnt that deck. I run 1 in the side and 1 AD maindeck to keep boggles in check, with mild success.
It's been a tier deck for awhile now. I guess I should clarify. Do we expect to see more of the deck around (than we already do) in response to a growing portion of the field represented by Humans, Hollow One, and Affinity? I'm pretty sure those are all good MUs for Bogles, so I wonder if people will respond with Bogles, or just play the best decks in the format right now (Humans, Hollow One, and Affinity). If we do expect to start seeing more Bogles, then I need to adjust my deck accordingly. Looking at EE, Golgari Charm, and finding a spot for that MB Abrupt Decay.
He just can't be played with Bob. That's suicide. Thundermaw Hellkite and Tasigur, the Golden Fang way back when was ballsy enough. He would have to replace Bob, and that just seems strictly worse. We can't fill our yard as well as Mardu, nor do we get the same CA or payoffs by filling our yard like they do. I'm convinced we would just be a bad Mardu Pyromancer.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
Beat Infect, GW Aggro/Hatebear Homebrew, some Unexpected Results deck, and KCI.
It was a weird night. I was hoping to get a couple more meta matches in there, but I’ll take it. Every win was hard-fought.
I’ll add my decklist and more detail later, but for now I’ll just say that the MB Lavaman was absurd. I tapped so many times with that guy tonight, and I’m convinced that the 9x fetches did a lot to help fuel his lava. He was even extremely relevant against KCI. Grim Flayer was amazing too. I’m calling Lavaman and Flayer the Brothers Grim. I won’t leave home without them now.
Edit: My decklist was as follows:
1x Grim Lavamancer
2x Grim Flayer
2x Scavenging Oooze
3x Dark Confidant
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Bloodbraid Elf
Instants & Sorceries (16)
3x Lightning Bolt
1x Fatal Push
1x Abrupt Decay
2x Terminate
2x Kolaghan's Command
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Thoughtseize
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Nihil Spellbomb
Planeswalkers (4)
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
Lands (24)
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Wooded Foothills
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Blood Crypt
1x Stomping Ground
3x Raging Ravine
2x Swamp
2x Forest
2x Fulminator Mage
2x Anger of the Gods
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Collective Brutality
2x Ancient Grudge
1x Golgari Charm
1x Duress
1x Fatal Push
1x Damping Sphere
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Grafdigger's Cage
I missed the 3rd Scooze and I don't necessarily think cutting him for the Abrupt Decay was the right call, but I couldn't think of anything else to cut. I felt very uncomfortable with no Decay in the 75. Especially in my meta. I'm going to have to figure this out.
I actually really liked the Fatal Push and Duress in the SB.
I still think I'm super soft to UWx Control. I'm not really a fan of SBing cards that used to be MB. Like putting the 4th BBE in the side (to mitigate the control MU) just seems like a waste of a SB slot. I'm not saying that's necessarily true, that's just how it feels. Maybe I need to add the 3rd Fulminator Mage back in the side. Thrun seems unnecessary. Still, I'm pretty sure I've cut my percentage of win chances down on that MU with this new list.
I'll say it again, Lavamancer was absurdly good last night. In a similar vein, Lili-tLH was amazing as well. I actually Ulted her twice! I really didn't think I needed to buy her emblem and some zombie tokens. I guess I was wrong.
2x K-Command felt correct over the 2x Maelstrom Pulse option. Still, I need more catch-alls similar to Pulse and Decay.
I connected so many times with Flayer. He was crucial in the Infect MU.
I didn't know what my KCI opponent was on going into the round, and kept a hand that seemed good but had no quick interaction. A professional player (or just a good one) would not have kept that hand going in blind. I should have known better. I've learned my lesson. I would say I got lucky by drawing all the interaction I needed that round, but I'd be lying. I didn't get lucky, I got Grim Flayer. The dude is a beast. I haven't had a lot of practice with the KCI MU. Fortunately the guy was willing do play a few more practice games after the round was over. I'd be all ears if anyone has any tips/advice for that MU, such as timings and stuff. You know, when to kill Trawler/Retriever, when to crack Spellbomb, etc. Just stuff like that.
The landbase was great too.
Those are just a few observations I had last night.
And @J1lberto, about that Hoogland Reveler list, I'm bummed there's no Grim Flayers in it! That seems like a missed opportunity to me. I think I'd rather have Flayer than BBE. Also, while we're at it, Traverse seems good with Reveler. I'm gonna mess around with some brews on Cockatrice. It still feels like a bad Jund deck and a worse Mardu deck had a bad baby though.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
Also when will there be added new matchups? Because last tournament it really gave me an edge because I struggle with sideboarding on the fly.
Id like to see matchups like elves, differnt death and taxes decks, bant company, kci, bant knightfall
Hey, I did travel to GP Birmingham this weekend so I could not find time to post in the forums. I will focus on those matchups as soon as I can to add those to the SB plan.
And yes, if it says max 1-2, it means you should board out max 1-2 copies of that card.
So the faster jund approach seems to work great. Glad to hear that! As already stated, I will look at newer matchups as soon as I can (like KCI) to add those to the SB plan as well.
Additional Questions: Second forest over Twilight Mire? Damping Sphere or Fulminator Mage? I know it’s been discussed before, just curious where people are at these days.
Not sure what to expect, SCG events tend to be much more varied in terms of the decks one might face, so I’ve tried to make the most balanced 75 I can. Please let me know your thoughts!
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Bloodstained Mire
1x Wooded Foothills
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Blood Crypt
1x Stomping Ground
1x Twilight Mire
3x Raging Ravine
1x Treetop Village
2x Swamp
1x Forest
Instant// 10
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Fatal Push
1x Abrupt Decay
2x Terminate
2x Kolaghan's Command
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Dark Confidant
3x Bloodbraid Elf
2x Grim Flayer
2x Scavenging Ooze
Sorcery// 7
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Thoughtseize
1x Maelstrom Pulse
Planeswalker// 4
4x Liliana of the Veil
3x Damping Sphere
2x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Collective Brutality
2x Ancient Grudge
1x Kitchen Finks
1x Grim Lavamancer
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Hazoret, the Fervent
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
1x Anger of the Gods
Awesome, thanks for putting in a lot of work already. How did the GP go for you?
About the sideboard plans, im really curious about
Elves (because its aggro, but also has a combo element and all creaturea are 3cmc and below but coco is 4cmc so im never sure about what discard to board out.
Also the mono white death and taxes, the black and white eldrazi taxes
bant knightfall (how relevant is gy hate, discard and liliana in this matchup)
And bant company with voices and jace that have showb up in my local meta. Not sure how to aproach the matchup perfectly.
One note I would like to make to the infect sideboardplan already on the primer. Im pretty sure u want to sideboard in fulminator and maybe ancient grudge, and im not sure u want to sideboard out decay or pulse..I think scooz goyf and bloodbraid are worse in the matchup
With 3 Damping Sphere is the side, I would consider replacing the Twilight Mire for a second Basic Forest. Otherwise, I might just copy that list.
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
Flexible answers are double edges swords nowadays. For a wide open meta like Modern is now, those are great in theory. But linear aggro strategies demand on point answers with highest efficiencies. Flexible answers are usually not efficient or on point. Typically they do what cheaper narrower spells do but worse. I would not overload on flexible answers unless they really pull their weight.
If you run Damping Sphere, cut Twilight Mire for sure. If you run Fulminator, you can keep Mire. Whether you want Sphere or not only depends on your expectation to face Tron imo. Fulminator would be way better against Control, which is a strategy to actually exepct right now, due the power of Teferi in those decks.
For your list: If you run Spheres, cut Twilight Mire, like expected. I am also not a fan of playing 4 manlands in 24 landbuilds. The rest looks fine.
The GP was great, although I lost my win and in for day 2 unfortunately. But I had lots of fun, met awesome poeple and learned a lot.
I will look over those matchups!
You bring in Grudge for sure against Infect, but I am not really high on Fulminator. But I guess its okay if you want. I don't like Decay or Pulse in this matchup because it does not deal with Inkmoth, I want cheap and instant speed answers for Inkmoth. And I think cutting Goyfs is wrong, because against the deck, when you handled everything they had and when they are in topdeck mode, you need to have a clock available. Sometimes they can just topdeck inkmoth + Become Immense in a row and kill you if you don't have a clock.
So my question is kind of double sided and came about while I was wondering what it'd take for a new card to make it into Jund and what cards it might possibly displace. For example, I have a hard time imagining Tarmogoyf or Liliana of the Veil ever being displaced but printing a modal spell that could act as incidental graveyard hate while being main-deckable because of its other applications might be enough to replace Scavenging Ooze with something like Grim Flayer. All of the Jund cards are already so efficient though so I'm having trouble finding answers to how some of them might be displaced.
Thoughts?