I don't believe that's the case any longer. Tron, Scapeshift, Amulet, UW Control, and Lantern are all poised to be good now and all have positive matchups against Jund. Burn is still good and I believe that matchup slightly favors Burn. Affinity has morphed into a harder deck to beat with Hardened Scales. Jund has a positive matchupu against Storm, but that isn't overly prevalent right now. Humans and Spirits are probably 50/50 - Jund does well against creature decks but those 2 decks pack a lot of disruption on the bodies, which brings the matchups closer.
Lantern is a bad matchup?? How??
Also, Tron is definitely 50/50.
It's been my experience that Jund is too slow to go under Lantern's lock. Glad to hear that's not typical.
I agree Tron is a much closer matchup than all the doom/gloom "don't even SB for it because it's so bad" proponents suggest, and I personally have a great record against Tron, but it's not 50/50.
NoSB and Ishkanah were for testing. I didnt like NoSB, would have rather had another Anger vs Elves, maybe its better vs scales affinity instead of Anger, not sure.
Many GBx players are playing Languish these days. It's really good versus Spirits in particular as well as the other go-wide decks. It is often still Goyf-friendly as well.
Whats the upside of playing Languish instead of Damnation besides the slight chance Goyf might surive? The downside of languish is also the chance your opponents creatures are too big.
Also Spirits play like 1 selfless spirits in the sideboard
NoSB and Ishkanah were for testing. I didnt like NoSB, would have rather had another Anger vs Elves, maybe its better vs scales affinity instead of Anger, not sure.
Many GBx players are playing Languish these days. It's really good versus Spirits in particular as well as the other go-wide decks. It is often still Goyf-friendly as well.
Whats the upside of playing Languish instead of Damnation besides the slight chance Goyf might surive? The downside of languish is also the chance your opponents creatures are too big.
Also Spirits play like 1 selfless spirits in the sideboard
There are several upsides. Sometimes, your Goyfs and Oozes can survive Languish, it can hit indestructible creatures or creatures with regeneration (not played a lot right not, but Thrun and Hazoret have seen play), Meddling Mage can only name one of your two sweepers, and UW Spirits does run 3-4 Selfless Spirits. It also costs a lot less than Damnation.
It makes sense to run 1 copy each of Damnation and Languish if you run two sweepers.
NoSB and Ishkanah were for testing. I didnt like NoSB, would have rather had another Anger vs Elves, maybe its better vs scales affinity instead of Anger, not sure.
Many GBx players are playing Languish these days. It's really good versus Spirits in particular as well as the other go-wide decks. It is often still Goyf-friendly as well.
Whats the upside of playing Languish instead of Damnation besides the slight chance Goyf might surive? The downside of languish is also the chance your opponents creatures are too big.
Also Spirits play like 1 selfless spirits in the sideboard
There are several upsides. Sometimes, your Goyfs and Oozes can survive Languish, it can hit indestructible creatures or creatures with regeneration (not played a lot right not, but Thrun and Hazoret have seen play), Meddling Mage can only name one of your two sweepers, and UW Spirits does run 3-4 Selfless Spirits. It also costs a lot less than Damnation.
It makes sense to run 1 copy each of Damnation and Languish if you run two sweepers.
Fair enough, though Damnation also doesnt let creatures regenarate. Im just scared this wont kill Angler, Tasigur, Reality Smasher, big Balista, Hangerback or Ravagers. I think the only upside is dodging selfless spirit, the money cost and the slight chance your scooze or goyf survive. Seems alright.
NoSB and Ishkanah were for testing. I didnt like NoSB, would have rather had another Anger vs Elves, maybe its better vs scales affinity instead of Anger, not sure.
Many GBx players are playing Languish these days. It's really good versus Spirits in particular as well as the other go-wide decks. It is often still Goyf-friendly as well.
Whats the upside of playing Languish instead of Damnation besides the slight chance Goyf might surive? The downside of languish is also the chance your opponents creatures are too big.
Also Spirits play like 1 selfless spirits in the sideboard
There are several upsides. Sometimes, your Goyfs and Oozes can survive Languish, it can hit indestructible creatures or creatures with regeneration (not played a lot right not, but Thrun and Hazoret have seen play), Meddling Mage can only name one of your two sweepers, and UW Spirits does run 3-4 Selfless Spirits. It also costs a lot less than Damnation.
It makes sense to run 1 copy each of Damnation and Languish if you run two sweepers.
Fair enough, though Damnation also doesnt let creatures regenarate. Im just scared this wont kill Angler, Tasigur, Reality Smasher, big Balista, Hangerback or Ravagers. I think the only upside is dodging selfless spirit, the money cost and the slight chance your scooze or goyf survive. Seems alright.
Why do people keep saying "slight" chance Goyf will survive Languish? Goyf is a 4/5 80-90% of the time so I would say it's more likely than not it will survive languish. The only thing I don't like about Languish is that it usually will kill Kalitas & Scooze, both of which can usually survive Anger of the Gods but also both non-bo with Anger. I wish there was a 3 Mana -3/-3 to play alongside Kalitas to just WRECK creature decks. Cherry on top would be the keyword you "May" exile them to get Dredge when Kalitas isn't out and to get Zombies when he is.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The worst part isn't the pain, or the smell, or even the fear of death. It's hearing the clatter of bone on stone and knowing the bones are yours."BRG
Cherry on top would be the keyword you "May" exile them to get Dredge when Kalitas isn't out and to get Zombies when he is.
When there are two replacement effects, doesn't the player who controls the effects get to choose which one is used?
True. If there are multiple replacement effects, the owner of the object chooses which one will affect it.
You're saying the owner of the permanent affected chooses if I understand correctly. That isn't what I said. You are probably right, so the opponent would probably choose to not let one get those Zombie tokens. One could get the Zombies for one's own, unfortunate creatures.
Facing a big tournament saturday, probably playing this list.
Any thoughts? Ive listed some questions and stuff I wasnt sure about.
Expecting a lot of Burn, UR Phoenix, Tron, Jeskai, Storm, Amulet, Scales affinity, UW and Spirits.
I want the maindeck Pulse as a G1 awnser Strom Tokens and Scales Affinity, instead of the 4th Liliana, which probably fine, not sure, I liked it last saturday.
The maindeck Huntmaster seems good vs a lot of the expected meta and G1 against Burn, choose it maindeck over Kalitas because Kalitas is more narrow.
I want the 4 Trophys vs all the lands and control decks im expecting.
Not sure about Damnation/Languish (Languish is in the mail, not getting it before saturday), maybe I could just play a 3rd Anger. Engineered was just too awkward last saturday, also with BBE.
Playing 9 fetches because of the 3 Pushes. Also a Treetop, but havent tested it yet. Anyone had some exp with the 2-1 creatureland split?
Have sideboarded in Ishkanah but havent played it yet, either because I didnt draw it or I didnt have the mana, so im off the card for now till I do some actual testing with the card at FNM
Cherry on top would be the keyword you "May" exile them to get Dredge when Kalitas isn't out and to get Zombies when he is.
When there are two replacement effects, doesn't the player who controls the effects get to choose which one is used?
True. If there are multiple replacement effects, the owner of the object chooses which one will affect it.
If it's a forced effect like it is now, than the other play may choose which effect exiles them. However if Anger of the God's said you "may" exile them instead, it's your card, you cast it, and you can choose if you wanted to exile them or not. If you choose not, than Kalitas's not-may ability forces the exile and you would get zombies and your opponent would have no say. That was my point, wishing for a sweeper where the exile was a "may."
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The worst part isn't the pain, or the smell, or even the fear of death. It's hearing the clatter of bone on stone and knowing the bones are yours."BRG
I thought there would be way more activity on here since the banning. I'm not sure why people think it's a bad thing for Jund though? If someone can try and explain that to me? Affinity is a fine matchup if that rises again. We can tune to a heavier burn meta. Pulse of Murasa is a surprisingly playable card
And if we're expecting whir and affinity and hardened scales, Night of Souls' Betrayal looks really good, honestly. It's also good against dredge - makes the only relevant threats into 4 2/2's which is beatable. Against spirits it's nice, too. They have a lot of mopey creatures. Not great against humans, but not sure which I'm expecting more of right now between that and spirits as the disruptive aggro deck of the format
I've never been sold on Ishkanah. I'd rather play Pia and Kiran for a similar effect at a lower mana cost and a more relevant ability. People already bring in some grave hate against us
Pulse of Murasa is an "expensive" card CMC-wise for a matchup that gets done in a hurry. If we were worried about Burn, I think we should play more Collective Brutality and move on with life.
Night of Souls' Betrayal is great at stopping those decks' common mode of winning (via x/1's), but it doesn't win the game and can still be played around. I would rather play Kalitas to shut down the modular triggers instead (as well as Hangarback Walker's trigger). Even then, those decks can still outpace you fairly easily even when they're on the draw.
I think it's way easier for hardened scales affinity decks to play around a Kalitas which can be killed way easier than an enchantment for them and also essentially negates their death triggers. It's also good against dredge and "fine" against storm as a permanent out to goblin tokens. I don't love it, but it's ok.
All in all, I'd bring in both, but I haven't seen too much of the deck locally, so for bigger tournaments in my area, I'm not gonna put it on my sideboard yet. It's just another card to think about that can win games on its own.
What is our plan against Phoenix decks by the way? I was 3-1 at a local open and then lost to two Phoenix decks. I surgicalled the Phoenix, but they top deck a drake and I couldn't kill it. And some are running ascension and pyromancer and blood moon. The matchup feels pretty bad. If I can figure out what our game plan is I think I can get better at it. But I beat amulet, Dredge, and that bridge-vine deck (all poor matchups) just to lose twice to Phoenix. Felt real bad.
Cherry on top would be the keyword you "May" exile them to get Dredge when Kalitas isn't out and to get Zombies when he is.
When there are two replacement effects, doesn't the player who controls the effects get to choose which one is used?
True. If there are multiple replacement effects, the owner of the object chooses which one will affect it.
If it's a forced effect like it is now, than the other play may choose which effect exiles them. However if Anger of the God's said you "may" exile them instead, it's your card, you cast it, and you can choose if you wanted to exile them or not. If you choose not, than Kalitas's not-may ability forces the exile and you would get zombies and your opponent would have no say. That was my point, wishing for a sweeper where the exile was a "may."
Your point was clear from the beginning, I just wasn't clear on the rule about multiple replacement effects.
How deep do we want to go on these graveyard decks? I'm thinking of playing two surgicals in the main right now
Cutting maybe a bolt and a push bringing me down to 3 and 2, respectively
Brainstorming for GP Toronto this weekend
That seems like an extreme meta call to me. At a GP you can expect to face just about anything. If you're at the top tables, you'll face more of the popular strategies. If you expect that you may coast in the X-2, X-3 bracket for a while, or worse, you can expect absolutely anything. I've always considered Surgical a bad card with situational usefulness - or a "necessary evil," in other words. For a deck that likes to survive on value it's hard for me to justify 2 Surgical in the 75, let alone the main.
I agree Tron is a much closer matchup than all the doom/gloom "don't even SB for it because it's so bad" proponents suggest, and I personally have a great record against Tron, but it's not 50/50.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
https://mtgrock.com/2019/01/14/play-patterns-advanced-sideboarding/
Whats the upside of playing Languish instead of Damnation besides the slight chance Goyf might surive? The downside of languish is also the chance your opponents creatures are too big.
Also Spirits play like 1 selfless spirits in the sideboard
There are several upsides. Sometimes, your Goyfs and Oozes can survive Languish, it can hit indestructible creatures or creatures with regeneration (not played a lot right not, but Thrun and Hazoret have seen play), Meddling Mage can only name one of your two sweepers, and UW Spirits does run 3-4 Selfless Spirits. It also costs a lot less than Damnation.
It makes sense to run 1 copy each of Damnation and Languish if you run two sweepers.
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
Fair enough, though Damnation also doesnt let creatures regenarate. Im just scared this wont kill Angler, Tasigur, Reality Smasher, big Balista, Hangerback or Ravagers. I think the only upside is dodging selfless spirit, the money cost and the slight chance your scooze or goyf survive. Seems alright.
Why do people keep saying "slight" chance Goyf will survive Languish? Goyf is a 4/5 80-90% of the time so I would say it's more likely than not it will survive languish. The only thing I don't like about Languish is that it usually will kill Kalitas & Scooze, both of which can usually survive Anger of the Gods but also both non-bo with Anger. I wish there was a 3 Mana -3/-3 to play alongside Kalitas to just WRECK creature decks. Cherry on top would be the keyword you "May" exile them to get Dredge when Kalitas isn't out and to get Zombies when he is.
When there are two replacement effects, doesn't the player who controls the effects get to choose which one is used?
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
True. If there are multiple replacement effects, the owner of the object chooses which one will affect it.
You're saying the owner of the permanent affected chooses if I understand correctly. That isn't what I said. You are probably right, so the opponent would probably choose to not let one get those Zombie tokens.
One could get the Zombies for one's own, unfortunate creatures.Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
"Penguin is Evil ?"
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Any thoughts? Ive listed some questions and stuff I wasnt sure about.
Expecting a lot of Burn, UR Phoenix, Tron, Jeskai, Storm, Amulet, Scales affinity, UW and Spirits.
I want the maindeck Pulse as a G1 awnser Strom Tokens and Scales Affinity, instead of the 4th Liliana, which probably fine, not sure, I liked it last saturday.
The maindeck Huntmaster seems good vs a lot of the expected meta and G1 against Burn, choose it maindeck over Kalitas because Kalitas is more narrow.
I want the 4 Trophys vs all the lands and control decks im expecting.
Not sure about Damnation/Languish (Languish is in the mail, not getting it before saturday), maybe I could just play a 3rd Anger. Engineered was just too awkward last saturday, also with BBE.
Playing 9 fetches because of the 3 Pushes. Also a Treetop, but havent tested it yet. Anyone had some exp with the 2-1 creatureland split?
Have sideboarded in Ishkanah but havent played it yet, either because I didnt draw it or I didnt have the mana, so im off the card for now till I do some actual testing with the card at FNM
24 lands
4 blackcleave cliffs
2 overgrown tomb
1 bloodcrypt
1 stomping ground
2 raging ravine
1 Treetop village
4 verdant catacombs
3 bloodstained mire
2 wooded foothills
2 swamp
2 forest
14 creatures
3 bloodbraid
3 dark confidant
4 goyf
3 scooze
1 huntmaster
22 spells
3 liliana of the veil
3 fatal push
2 kcommand
4 assassin’s trophy
3 lightning bolt
2 thoughtseize
4 inquisition
1 maelstrom pulse
Sideboard 15
2 surgical
3 fulmiMage
2 Collective brutality
2 Anger of the gods
1 damnation
1 nihil Spellbomb
1 kalitas
1 damping sphere
1 grafdiggers cage
1 huntmaster
EDIT: Scales Affinity is one matchup where Kalitas is far more useful than Huntmaster as well.
If it's a forced effect like it is now, than the other play may choose which effect exiles them. However if Anger of the God's said you "may" exile them instead, it's your card, you cast it, and you can choose if you wanted to exile them or not. If you choose not, than Kalitas's not-may ability forces the exile and you would get zombies and your opponent would have no say. That was my point, wishing for a sweeper where the exile was a "may."
I think it's way easier for hardened scales affinity decks to play around a Kalitas which can be killed way easier than an enchantment for them and also essentially negates their death triggers. It's also good against dredge and "fine" against storm as a permanent out to goblin tokens. I don't love it, but it's ok.
All in all, I'd bring in both, but I haven't seen too much of the deck locally, so for bigger tournaments in my area, I'm not gonna put it on my sideboard yet. It's just another card to think about that can win games on its own.
What is our plan against Phoenix decks by the way? I was 3-1 at a local open and then lost to two Phoenix decks. I surgicalled the Phoenix, but they top deck a drake and I couldn't kill it. And some are running ascension and pyromancer and blood moon. The matchup feels pretty bad. If I can figure out what our game plan is I think I can get better at it. But I beat amulet, Dredge, and that bridge-vine deck (all poor matchups) just to lose twice to Phoenix. Felt real bad.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Cutting maybe a bolt and a push bringing me down to 3 and 2, respectively
Brainstorming for GP Toronto this weekend
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero