MTG Salvation

Quote from MajorRiot »

Jund is probably the worst deck in Modern that is a playable deck, GB isn't too far behind it. I would not recommend playing this deck or any mid-range deck if you are looking for wins or competitive games. I would also not recommend Jund or GB if you suffer from depression or have suicidal thoughts.

Just look at this thread. I scrolled back a few a pages, there is nobody on here celebrating anything. Entire weeks go by without a single post. And when there is a post, it is someone suggesting something new for the deck, that is only immediately shot down, with good reason usually. I've been playing this deck for a long time now, hoping that something would make midrange playable but we are beyond that now. Nobody wants fair games, they want infinite loop or instant kill. Playing anything else, you are just wasting your time. Move on to some other deck, that is easier to play, like Burn or Tron.

Close this thread. It's over.

Git gud.

Reading through recent posts I can clearly tell that we are hitting desperation levels that should not be possible! Luckily on my local meta even with (maybe due to) phoenixes and dredges I get to win quite often. I did some notable anti-aggro changes but I wouldn't really say that jund is having it bad right now.

Anyway, since spoil of Dreadhorde Arcanist I am toying with with idea of trying him in jund alongside Noble Hierarch + some additional changes. I see similarity between him and confidant. This being quite good against aggro matchups where you are in dire need of your 1 drops + he can occasionally block unlike confidant and most importantly can provide card advantage while not costing you any life.

Also I was thinking of Davriel being a good sideboard card against control matchups. Compared to liliana he doesn't hit our own hand and provides a relevant clock.

What do you guys think?

Any love for Liliana’s Triumph? I’m pretty excited about it. I haven’t played mtg in months, but even when I’m not playing I love it when new sets come out and I always try to keep up with them. It’s a better Diabolic Edict; a card I’ve wished we, at the very least, had access to for a long time now. And this one gets around Leyline of Sanctity, as well as very possibly providing some virtual CA.

Dreadhorde Arcanist is at least interesting, though maybe it’s better for a shadow deck?

Angrath’s Rampage looks pretty bad*** too, though the sorcery speed is a deterrent.

Any other prospects I’ve missed?

Liliana's Triumpth seems like it'll be better in Rock decks, but I won't completely discount it.

What would we cut for it?

The rest aren't suitable for Jund, I don't think

I don’t think lili’s triumph is gonna be all that great tbh. Many, many decks in modern go wide rather than tall and edicts just aren’t effective against that style. As is most BGx decks play 4, or sometimes fewer, LotV. Adding diabolical edict is largely unneeded redundancy.

I think the card is very playable, but people seem to be overreacting big time. I don’t see this card making it out of the sideboard, and even then it’s probably only to be included when you’re fearing specifically bogles.

Quote from Tempest753 »

I don’t think lili’s triumph is gonna be all that great tbh. Many, many decks in modern go wide rather than tall and edicts just aren’t effective against that style. As is most BGx decks play 4, or sometimes fewer, LotV. Adding diabolical edict is largely unneeded redundancy.

I think the card is very playable, but people seem to be overreacting big time. I don’t see this card making it out of the sideboard, and even then it’s probably only to be included when you’re fearing specifically bogles.

This sounds about right. There are probably a few other corner cases, Through the Breach, maybe?

Quote from Tempest753 »

I don’t think lili’s triumph is gonna be all that great tbh. Many, many decks in modern go wide rather than tall and edicts just aren’t effective against that style. As is most BGx decks play 4, or sometimes fewer, LotV. Adding diabolical edict is largely unneeded redundancy.

I think the card is very playable, but people seem to be overreacting big time. I don’t see this card making it out of the sideboard, and even then it’s probably only to be included when you’re fearing specifically bogles.

We’re Jund. We should be 1-for-1’ing their creatures as they play them. There shouldn’t be a board full of opposing creatures that your opponent can choose to sac. Also, it has a pretty decent ceiling. Especially if they’re hellbent. Instant speed discard is the real deal. I’m not saying cut Lightning Bolts for 4x copies of triumph (obvious exaggeration), but I can easily see a singleton copy in the MB in one of those removal flex-slots we have, and another in the SB for decks it shines against (e.g., Bogles, Breach decks, Infect, mirror/midrange). There’s plenty of other MU’s I can see it proving its worth against too. Shadow decks, for example (watch out for Snapcaster), Eldrazi/Tron, etc. Anywhere with fewer and hard to remove creatures, and anywhere we keep our Lili’s in after game 1 and CA matters.

I’m excited about it. I think it’s a pretty slick card and a nice nod to GBx decks, albeit 12Rack players are probably drooling a little bit harder than me. Also, I’m secretely hoping for an uptick in untargeted discard so my Wilt-Leaf Lieges can come out of hiding again.

Edit: Also, just in case it wasn’t obvious and to head off any unnecessary corrections, I know it’s 8Rack. I was referencing Davriel, Rogue Shadowmage.

Anyone taken a look at Ashiok, Dream Render? Seems like a really solid SB card. Am I looking at it right? A great answer to GY decks (which is every deck) and assorted decks (a lot of combo) that search their library or use fetchlands (which is every deck). Those are exaggerations, but my point is it covers a lot of ground. We could mill ourselves (unless we knew the opponent had something good on top) to fuel Goyf. Other similar decks will get more mileage out of the self-mill, but it’s still useful to us.

It seems like a nice 1 of in the sideboard. It'll depend on the meta, but I don't think it would hurt every gbx player to buy 1 or 2 copies and stuff it in their GBx toolbox if it ever is deemed good.

Also---was this being printed as uncommon a mistake on the reveal? Am I seeing that silver uncommon wrong?

I thought the uncommon was an odd choice too. He/she is a little too multifaceted and powerful of a hoser to not be a rare, I would think. The silver is why I kind of glanced over the card for awhile before now.

While we’re talking about new SB hosers, The Elderspell is obviously the strongest PW hoser we (or anyone else for that matter) have access to. Are there going to be enough Planeswalkers in existing decks and/or enough of an uptick in PW-centric decks that it warrants inclusion of this new card in the SB?
I guess the real question is: is it good enough to run against decks running 4-6 PW’s like GBx, UWx Control, and Tron? Or is it too narrow, and not worth the risk of sitting in our hands durdling while we wait for a target, wishing it was a Dreadbore or Goyf or something else? We don’t have card selection, after all. But damn, that ceiling is high.

Can I get you all’s opinion on a couple of rogue changes to a largely vanilla decklist?



**+1 spellbomb, -1 thoughtseize to sideboard**
I feel like I sideboard thoughtseizes out of my deck a looot, and spellbomb is a relatively low cost inclusion to hedge against the multitude of grave decks. How often do you all sideboard out thoughtseize? Like 2/3 of matches like I do nowadays?

**4 trophy, 0 pulse, 0 decay**
I wanted to hedge a bit against tron since moving from Rock means losing FoR. It may be in vain, and if so maybe I want 3 trophy-1 decay, but I feel pretty strongly that pulse is too slow in modern nowadays for a removal spell. It’s almost always tempo negative which can leave you very behind on board. Any thoughts?

**1 LtLH, 1 kcommand vs 2kcommabd**
I went with the first LtLH over a second kcommand simply because I feel like BBE into a Liliana planeswalker is such a powerful play, even more powerful than BBE->kcommand. Also without pulse, I’m kind of weak to tokens. The drawback of course is that I’m down a burn spell that can help close out a game. How do you all feel about maindeck LtLH vs kcommand at the 3cmc slot?

It's just "rock-ified" Jund. This isn't new. I will say Liliana, the Last Hope isn't worth a maindeck slot these days.

Do we like Leyline of the Void more now with the new mulligan rules? I’ve been living under a rock and just found out about the change. The odds of finding one are pretty dang good if you really wanted to dig (i.e., 78.3% for a mull to 5 and 87% to 4). Is that enough to convert any of y’all that were not in the LotVoid camp, or are you going to stick to your other hosers? Obviously it’ll be just as easy to find them too, though they won’t be present on turn-0. I’m just curious what y’all think about it. It scares me a little that combo can dig like that though.

Quote from Piney_Tinecones »

Do we like Leyline of the Void more now with the new mulligan rules? I’ve been living under a rock and just found out about the change. The odds of finding one are pretty dang good if you really wanted to dig (i.e., 78.3% for a mull to 5 and 87% to 4). Is that enough to convert any of y’all that were not in the LotVoid camp, or are you going to stick to your other hosers? Obviously it’ll be just as easy to find them too, though they won’t be present on turn-0. I’m just curious what y’all think about it. It scares me a little that combo can dig like that though.

The new rule is not implemented yet and will be tested to figure out if its safe. So nothing fixed yet.

Concerning Leyline, I don't think there is more incentive to play it based on the mulligan than on the actual metagame. Leyline will always be a strong option if you expect many GY based decks. In the case of Dredge now, it makes sense to play it.

Leyline of the Void becomes significantly better with the London mulligan. Just based on how I'm seeing sideboards built now, I think we should already have switched over Leylines any way. The London mulligan will make it so that we don't ever need more than three (possibly only 2) Leylines.

I think Dredge is not a so good reason to play leyline overs an other graveyard hate, leyline is the more efficient but the easiest to destroy with claim/trophy when with the other graveyard hate you have time to discard before or find a good setup. It's not a gg if you have leyline in hand.

Anyon have a theory of why Jund was (maybe) a good choice again ? (i assume that with the PT)

Quote from yriel »

Anyon have a theory of why Jund was (maybe) a good choice again ? (i assume that with the PT)

Five players played Jund, two made day two. I wouldn't read much into those results. Especially given who didn't make day two.

Three of those jund players were top calibur players in the pro scene. Think the jund results are skewed

Quote from Spsiegel1987 »

Three of those jund players were top calibur players in the pro scene. Think the jund results are skewed

I seriously don't understand this logic. Are you telling me they beat up chumps?

This is the way I see it. They piloted what most pros consider to be an "underpowered" deck for the format, and a good percentage of them did fairly well against top flight competition.

If the meta shifts towards Humans / UW / Dredge as it seems to be doing, Jund's a pretty decent choice going forward.