There is one Junk in the finals of Modern Open and 1 more in top 32 along with two Jund decks but I don't think any of them is very well positioned now. There are too many big mana decks at the moment and I think this has quite big impact on both BGx decks.
As bad as it sounds I feel like Wizards did more bad than good for BGx decks with bannings and also printing of Fatal Push (not just for Jund but also for Junk). This only made ramp decks better and more popular which is of course not good news for us BGx players.
There is one Junk in the finals of Modern Open and 1 more in top 32 along with two Jund decks but I don't think any of them is very well positioned now. There are too many big mana decks at the moment and I think this has quite big impact on both BGx decks.
As bad as it sounds I feel like Wizards did more bad than good for BGx decks with bannings and also printing of Fatal Push (not just for Jund but also for Junk). This only made ramp decks better and more popular which is of course not good news for us BGx players.
BBE unban incoming! (/irony)
No but seriously, this modern open was indeed not great for any GBx deck, although Junk becoming second was still a good result. What still surprizes me the most, is that absolutely no Jund list played Blood Moon so far. At least no successful list. Maybe this means BM is just not great in Jund (what I can understand to a certain point) but I think it should give us so much more game against any Eldrazi deck theoretically and also against Valakut. Tron is still as bad as it can get, but Tron is not that present actually. Eldrazi and Valakut is what bothers me. BM should be better than Fulminator against those decks in my opinion, and still there has not yet been a single BM popping up in a successful list.
There is one Junk in the finals of Modern Open and 1 more in top 32 along with two Jund decks but I don't think any of them is very well positioned now. There are too many big mana decks at the moment and I think this has quite big impact on both BGx decks.
As bad as it sounds I feel like Wizards did more bad than good for BGx decks with bannings and also printing of Fatal Push (not just for Jund but also for Junk). This only made ramp decks better and more popular which is of course not good news for us BGx players.
BBE unban incoming! (/irony)
No but seriously, this modern open was indeed not great for any GBx deck, although Junk becoming second was still a good result. What still surprizes me the most, is that absolutely no Jund list played Blood Moon so far. At least no successful list. Maybe this means BM is just not great in Jund (what I can understand to a certain point) but I think it should give us so much more game against any Eldrazi deck theoretically and also against Valakut. Tron is still as bad as it can get, but Tron is not that present actually. Eldrazi and Valakut is what bothers me. BM should be better than Fulminator against those decks in my opinion, and still there has not yet been a single BM popping up in a successful list.
The major problem is having hate for big mana decks that is consistent across the board. Eldrazi Tron laughs at Blood Moon between main deck Mind Stone and basic Wastes and sometimes it doesn't do much to regular Tron due to Oblivion Stone or Karn if they're on the play.
The major problem is having hate for big mana decks that is consistent across the board. Eldrazi Tron laughs at Blood Moon between main deck Mind Stone and basic Wastes and sometimes it doesn't do much to regular Tron due to Oblivion Stone or Karn if they're on the play.
I agree, this is indeed a problem. But the thing is, compared to Fulminator, it doesn't get much more consistant with him I think. Might be wrong though.
True but it enables Surgical Extraction shenanigans without letting them get to four lands (hopefully). That's the reason I went with Fulminator Mage. Plus it hurts a lot of these greedy mana bases on other fair decks.
Fulminator is also particularly good against Celestial Colonnade, because it can chip in for 2 damage a turn while somewhat blanking removal. It does not feel good to use removal on a Fulminator Mage. My local Eldrazi player is on to my Blood Moon shenanigans, so I've been thinking about going back to Fulminators for a bit to see how it feels.
Fulminator is also particularly good against Celestial Colonnade, because it can chip in for 2 damage a turn while somewhat blanking removal. It does not feel good to use removal on a Fulminator Mage. My local Eldrazi player is on to my Blood Moon shenanigans, so I've been thinking about going back to Fulminators for a bit to see how it feels.
I agree. Fulminator Mage is just one of those cards that can get in a ton of incidental damage because nobody wants to waste a removal spell on a creature that's going to get its effect regardless.
I just recently switched back to Fulminator from Blood Moon because BM was just too incredibly narrow and I was sick of not having options to bring in against other decks. I tried BM in decks outside of the designed hate (Tron, Valakut, Eldrazi) but it just screwed me over too many times, even running 10 fetches and 4 basics. Idk, perhaps I'll go back to BM once I realize how mediocre FM is again. I mean, I fully understand Fulminator isn't a Jund mirror breaker of any kind, but like I mentioned above, it'll just get in damage until they waste a removal spell. Then it cleans up a Raging Ravine.
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Played Jund at Indy this weekend. Let's just say it did not go well. Opponents were on Breach Titan, GR Tron, goryos, living end, burn, and burn before I dropped to go drink beer.
Played a fairly standard list with Kalitas and Huntmaster as my 4 drops, no brutality or flayer, fulm/extraction SB and 3/3 split for my discard package.
Got blown out several times through the day as well as just not being able to get ahead fast enough (Tron player had 3 karns and an ugin game 3). Several games had me iok only to see nothing but land the big nasties like Karn/Breach/griselbrand. When I did win vs those decks it was due to the classic discard/fulminator with a clock as you might expect.
In the prophetic words of my buddy, Jund just seems too fair right now. I think we do have the tools to stay relevant but it didn't feel great. I'm sure I made plenty of mistakes and iffy keeps though so have to take with a grain of salt. Buddy was on Breach Titan as well and played the mirror at least twice. Not sure what all I would change but would consider deaths shadow or junk if I was going to do it over again.
I honestly think there is ZERO reason to be playing this version of Jund while Death Shadow is a deck.
I love this version of Jund, but you have to know when there's a better deck, especially when all it requires is switching around a few cards. Every regular in this thread owns the skeleton and meat, just shell out the money for the shadows and baubles
I don't know if Shadow will stay legal, but if you looked on mtgo just a few weeks ago, it was almost literally nothing but different flavors of Tron, Eldrazi and Scapeshift
I honestly think there is ZERO reason to be playing this version of Jund while Death Shadow is a deck.
Given this meta right now and in terms of competitiveness I think this is true. Won't stop me from playing Jund though, as I enjoy it so much more. But can't argue with death shadow probably being better right now. Heck, this death shadow deck is even decent vs. Burn.
I honestly think there is ZERO reason to be playing this version of Jund while Death Shadow is a deck.
I love this version of Jund, but you have to know when there's a better deck, especially when all it requires is switching around a few cards. Every regular in this thread owns the skeleton and meat, just shell out the money for the shadows and baubles
I don't know if Shadow will stay legal, but if you looked on mtgo just a few weeks ago, it was almost literally nothing but different flavors of Tron, Eldrazi and Scapeshift
You're absolutely silly with your absolutes. The deck can easily be disrupted. All the recursion they include should be a giant tell. I mean why else you randomly jam Liliana, the Last Hope or Kolaghan's Command into a deck that's hoping you're dead on board by the time they could cast either? As I've said before, cheap threats and interaction gives them fits. That's it. The reason they're not having more trouble right now in live tournaments is because big mana decks seem to be the flavor of the month. Now if you're saying that's all we're ever going to see (big mana decks), then alright. However, that's not what I'm seeing on MTGO. The results of SCG Indy Open didn't really reinforce it's dominance either. Gerry T. and crew couldn't even make it to Day 2 against less competition and a much more wide open field. I'm seeing all kinds of decks online as well, including a resurgence in combo decks (UW Puresteel Paladin and Gifts Storm).
I disagree, I feel like Shadow is playing 12 Tarmogoys, and it's efficient. I think it fights through interaction well, and 3 mana isn't hard to achieve, the deck has 8 cantrips.
Ramp is certainly flavor of the month right now, but I'll be honest, man, I've been really impressed with Death Shadow and would encourage everyone in the thread to convert to it until ramp dies down.
Hey all,
I've been trying for a while to find a semi-affordable version of jund midrange, and this is the list I've settled upon. I am, however, having a great deal of struggle trying to find alternatives for the lilianas that had to bite the dust. And yes, i know that this list will be ALOT worse without the expensive staples, but I am honestly just looking for some advice on how to refine this "budget" list. Whether that be finding out what to fill the remaining 3 cards with, or just general improvements. Would appreciate any and all help, but there is no need to remind me that budget-ifying this kind of deck is not really do-able if I want to stay as competitive as possible.
2 Maelstrom is a meta-call. Lots of planeswalkers floating around.
Hey all,
I've been trying for a while to find a semi-affordable version of jund midrange, and this is the list I've settled upon. I am, however, having a great deal of struggle trying to find alternatives for the lilianas that had to bite the dust. And yes, i know that this list will be ALOT worse without the expensive staples, but I am honestly just looking for some advice on how to refine this "budget" list. Whether that be finding out what to fill the remaining 3 cards with, or just general improvements. Would appreciate any and all help, but there is no need to remind me that budget-ifying this kind of deck is not really do-able if I want to stay as competitive as possible.
2 Maelstrom is a meta-call. Lots of planeswalkers floating around.
I disagree, I feel like Shadow is playing 12 Tarmogoys, and it's efficient. I think it fights through interaction well, and 3 mana isn't hard to achieve, the deck has 8 cantrips.
Ramp is certainly flavor of the month right now, but I'll be honest, man, I've been really impressed with Death Shadow and would encourage everyone in the thread to convert to it until ramp dies down.
It really doesn't fight through interaction that well. If it did, I wouldn't be crushing it with Jeskai and Jund. I get all of this if all you fear are big mana decks, but the field is so wide open right now.
I honestly think there is ZERO reason to be playing this version of Jund while Death Shadow is a deck.
I love this version of Jund, but you have to know when there's a better deck, especially when all it requires is switching around a few cards. Every regular in this thread owns the skeleton and meat, just shell out the money for the shadows and baubles
I don't know if Shadow will stay legal, but if you looked on mtgo just a few weeks ago, it was almost literally nothing but different flavors of Tron, Eldrazi and Scapeshift
I feel like all you ever do is talk about why you shouldn't be playing Jund. It's really not constructive at all and doesn't contribute to the Jund conversation. We're here because we love Jund and want to play Jund, not to hear someone's opinions of why Abzan and Death Shadow are better.
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There's the usual hearsay of a possible Bloodbraid unban, regardless if it's true or not I'm curious as to what a current Jund list would look like with it unbanned?
Oh hey Jund just 5-0'd a league with Tron and Shadow decks in it. Can't believe that guy just went and played *****ty normal Jund when he could have gone with Shadow and lost.
There's the usual hearsay of a possible Bloodbraid unban, regardless if it's true or not I'm curious as to what a current Jund list would look like with it unbanned?
Anyone got some good builds in mind?
not much would change i dont think. maybe drop huntmasters or whatever other 4 drops and a couple spells to play them
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I felt the same with the Splinter Twin ban.
BBE unban incoming! (/irony)
No but seriously, this modern open was indeed not great for any GBx deck, although Junk becoming second was still a good result. What still surprizes me the most, is that absolutely no Jund list played Blood Moon so far. At least no successful list. Maybe this means BM is just not great in Jund (what I can understand to a certain point) but I think it should give us so much more game against any Eldrazi deck theoretically and also against Valakut. Tron is still as bad as it can get, but Tron is not that present actually. Eldrazi and Valakut is what bothers me. BM should be better than Fulminator against those decks in my opinion, and still there has not yet been a single BM popping up in a successful list.
The major problem is having hate for big mana decks that is consistent across the board. Eldrazi Tron laughs at Blood Moon between main deck Mind Stone and basic Wastes and sometimes it doesn't do much to regular Tron due to Oblivion Stone or Karn if they're on the play.
I agree, this is indeed a problem. But the thing is, compared to Fulminator, it doesn't get much more consistant with him I think. Might be wrong though.
I agree. Fulminator Mage is just one of those cards that can get in a ton of incidental damage because nobody wants to waste a removal spell on a creature that's going to get its effect regardless.
I just recently switched back to Fulminator from Blood Moon because BM was just too incredibly narrow and I was sick of not having options to bring in against other decks. I tried BM in decks outside of the designed hate (Tron, Valakut, Eldrazi) but it just screwed me over too many times, even running 10 fetches and 4 basics. Idk, perhaps I'll go back to BM once I realize how mediocre FM is again. I mean, I fully understand Fulminator isn't a Jund mirror breaker of any kind, but like I mentioned above, it'll just get in damage until they waste a removal spell. Then it cleans up a Raging Ravine.
Played a fairly standard list with Kalitas and Huntmaster as my 4 drops, no brutality or flayer, fulm/extraction SB and 3/3 split for my discard package.
Got blown out several times through the day as well as just not being able to get ahead fast enough (Tron player had 3 karns and an ugin game 3). Several games had me iok only to see nothing but land the big nasties like Karn/Breach/griselbrand. When I did win vs those decks it was due to the classic discard/fulminator with a clock as you might expect.
In the prophetic words of my buddy, Jund just seems too fair right now. I think we do have the tools to stay relevant but it didn't feel great. I'm sure I made plenty of mistakes and iffy keeps though so have to take with a grain of salt. Buddy was on Breach Titan as well and played the mirror at least twice. Not sure what all I would change but would consider deaths shadow or junk if I was going to do it over again.
I love this version of Jund, but you have to know when there's a better deck, especially when all it requires is switching around a few cards. Every regular in this thread owns the skeleton and meat, just shell out the money for the shadows and baubles
I don't know if Shadow will stay legal, but if you looked on mtgo just a few weeks ago, it was almost literally nothing but different flavors of Tron, Eldrazi and Scapeshift
Given this meta right now and in terms of competitiveness I think this is true. Won't stop me from playing Jund though, as I enjoy it so much more. But can't argue with death shadow probably being better right now. Heck, this death shadow deck is even decent vs. Burn.
You're absolutely silly with your absolutes. The deck can easily be disrupted. All the recursion they include should be a giant tell. I mean why else you randomly jam Liliana, the Last Hope or Kolaghan's Command into a deck that's hoping you're dead on board by the time they could cast either? As I've said before, cheap threats and interaction gives them fits. That's it. The reason they're not having more trouble right now in live tournaments is because big mana decks seem to be the flavor of the month. Now if you're saying that's all we're ever going to see (big mana decks), then alright. However, that's not what I'm seeing on MTGO. The results of SCG Indy Open didn't really reinforce it's dominance either. Gerry T. and crew couldn't even make it to Day 2 against less competition and a much more wide open field. I'm seeing all kinds of decks online as well, including a resurgence in combo decks (UW Puresteel Paladin and Gifts Storm).
Ramp is certainly flavor of the month right now, but I'll be honest, man, I've been really impressed with Death Shadow and would encourage everyone in the thread to convert to it until ramp dies down.
I've been trying for a while to find a semi-affordable version of jund midrange, and this is the list I've settled upon. I am, however, having a great deal of struggle trying to find alternatives for the lilianas that had to bite the dust. And yes, i know that this list will be ALOT worse without the expensive staples, but I am honestly just looking for some advice on how to refine this "budget" list. Whether that be finding out what to fill the remaining 3 cards with, or just general improvements. Would appreciate any and all help, but there is no need to remind me that budget-ifying this kind of deck is not really do-able if I want to stay as competitive as possible.
2 Maelstrom is a meta-call. Lots of planeswalkers floating around.
4 Dark Confidant
4 Grim Flayer
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
3 Scavenging Ooze
Instant/Sorc: 20
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Terminate
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Thoughtseize
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Blooming Marsh
1 Forest
1 Polluted Delta
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Raging Ravine
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
4 Wooded Foothills
For budget questions, pls post in the appropriate budget sub-forum: Forum Rules
It really doesn't fight through interaction that well. If it did, I wouldn't be crushing it with Jeskai and Jund. I get all of this if all you fear are big mana decks, but the field is so wide open right now.
I feel like all you ever do is talk about why you shouldn't be playing Jund. It's really not constructive at all and doesn't contribute to the Jund conversation. We're here because we love Jund and want to play Jund, not to hear someone's opinions of why Abzan and Death Shadow are better.
Anyone got some good builds in mind?
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
not much would change i dont think. maybe drop huntmasters or whatever other 4 drops and a couple spells to play them